Author Topic: Cookstown Incident  (Read 21567 times)

omagh_gael

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2019, 12:25:56 AM »
What's that all about lads?

tyrone girl

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2019, 01:56:26 AM »
A rumour had been flying about from early evening that a young person had taken their own life. Thankfully it seems to have been false but horrific to think how this kind of thing gets passed around. How does it even start?

David McKeown

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2019, 07:43:51 AM »
The point I was making about the arrest is that it has to be necessary to meet a certain condition. I was speculating to a degree but I canít think which of the conditions were likely to have necessitated an arrest. I would have thought anyone the police would have wanted to speak to would have attended voluntarily. If the suspected offence was manslaughter rather than corporate manslaughter then my thoughts might be somewhat different.   

nrico2006

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2019, 07:56:30 AM »
I won't pretend to know anything about the legalities of it all, but I do know that current setup in terms of layout of the Greenvale has been like that for quite a few years. I would imagine this had to have been passed by building control and assessed by the council for health and safety. So if the council had given it the seal of approval, the establishment is probably in the clear legally from that point of view.

How things were handled on the night when the situation started is different and without knowing what anyone did or didn't do, guessing is not helpful.

 LotsI did hear today from a teacher in one of the schools that the event didn't start until 9.30. Buses however were dropping kids off from before 8. of them with alcohol. So they were perhaps in the car park for 1-2 hours before the incident happened and some at least were drinking. I'm not sure what onus is on the hotel to cater for or be responsible for supervising that. Perhaps they are responsible for managing that? I have no idea.

As for the two arrests, I would think this would be standard practice for something like this would it not? Just to give the authorities the mechanism for asking the questions and proper grounds for prosecution if deemed necessary.

To really make things worse, some very worrying news in the Dungannon area tonight. If anyone is from the area or has children in any way linked to the schools or the events of the weekend, please keep a very close eye on them. There are some very distressed children at the moment and children in distress can make some very rash decisions.

The organisers of the event were responsible for the wellbeing of those that attended - regardless of starting time. The owner of the property is responsible as well, for the wellbeing of people on his property, even if he was not the prime organiser of the event? This was a terrible thing to happen but it wasn't an accident. It was gross negligence. That some kids were drinking has nothing got to do with it.

Kid drinking would have a lot to do with it.  Gross negligence may be the cause or may not, but its as likely that the cause was those who were pushing the crowd forward for what they probably thought was a bit of craic. 
'To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.'

RedHand88

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2019, 08:14:06 AM »
I won't pretend to know anything about the legalities of it all, but I do know that current setup in terms of layout of the Greenvale has been like that for quite a few years. I would imagine this had to have been passed by building control and assessed by the council for health and safety. So if the council had given it the seal of approval, the establishment is probably in the clear legally from that point of view.

How things were handled on the night when the situation started is different and without knowing what anyone did or didn't do, guessing is not helpful.

 LotsI did hear today from a teacher in one of the schools that the event didn't start until 9.30. Buses however were dropping kids off from before 8. of them with alcohol. So they were perhaps in the car park for 1-2 hours before the incident happened and some at least were drinking. I'm not sure what onus is on the hotel to cater for or be responsible for supervising that. Perhaps they are responsible for managing that? I have no idea.

As for the two arrests, I would think this would be standard practice for something like this would it not? Just to give the authorities the mechanism for asking the questions and proper grounds for prosecution if deemed necessary.

To really make things worse, some very worrying news in the Dungannon area tonight. If anyone is from the area or has children in any way linked to the schools or the events of the weekend, please keep a very close eye on them. There are some very distressed children at the moment and children in distress can make some very rash decisions.

The organisers of the event were responsible for the wellbeing of those that attended - regardless of starting time. The owner of the property is responsible as well, for the wellbeing of people on his property, even if he was not the prime organiser of the event? This was a terrible thing to happen but it wasn't an accident. It was gross negligence. That some kids were drinking has nothing got to do with it.

Kid drinking would have a lot to do with it.  Gross negligence may be the cause or may not, but its as likely that the cause was those who were pushing the crowd forward for what they probably thought was a bit of craic.

There's alot of nervous teenagers knowing full well what they did, waiting on a knock on the door.

Taylor

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2019, 08:19:24 AM »
I won't pretend to know anything about the legalities of it all, but I do know that current setup in terms of layout of the Greenvale has been like that for quite a few years. I would imagine this had to have been passed by building control and assessed by the council for health and safety. So if the council had given it the seal of approval, the establishment is probably in the clear legally from that point of view.

How things were handled on the night when the situation started is different and without knowing what anyone did or didn't do, guessing is not helpful.

 LotsI did hear today from a teacher in one of the schools that the event didn't start until 9.30. Buses however were dropping kids off from before 8. of them with alcohol. So they were perhaps in the car park for 1-2 hours before the incident happened and some at least were drinking. I'm not sure what onus is on the hotel to cater for or be responsible for supervising that. Perhaps they are responsible for managing that? I have no idea.

As for the two arrests, I would think this would be standard practice for something like this would it not? Just to give the authorities the mechanism for asking the questions and proper grounds for prosecution if deemed necessary.

To really make things worse, some very worrying news in the Dungannon area tonight. If anyone is from the area or has children in any way linked to the schools or the events of the weekend, please keep a very close eye on them. There are some very distressed children at the moment and children in distress can make some very rash decisions.

The organisers of the event were responsible for the wellbeing of those that attended - regardless of starting time. The owner of the property is responsible as well, for the wellbeing of people on his property, even if he was not the prime organiser of the event? This was a terrible thing to happen but it wasn't an accident. It was gross negligence. That some kids were drinking has nothing got to do with it.

Kid drinking would have a lot to do with it.  Gross negligence may be the cause or may not, but its as likely that the cause was those who were pushing the crowd forward for what they probably thought was a bit of craic.

There's alot of nervous teenagers knowing full well what they did, waiting on a knock on the door.

Thats the exact reason why many kids wont come forward with evidence or wont meet up with the police.

It wasnt just 10 or 15 kids pushing - the number was significantly higher

Tony Baloney

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2019, 08:37:33 AM »
I won't pretend to know anything about the legalities of it all, but I do know that current setup in terms of layout of the Greenvale has been like that for quite a few years. I would imagine this had to have been passed by building control and assessed by the council for health and safety. So if the council had given it the seal of approval, the establishment is probably in the clear legally from that point of view.

How things were handled on the night when the situation started is different and without knowing what anyone did or didn't do, guessing is not helpful.

 LotsI did hear today from a teacher in one of the schools that the event didn't start until 9.30. Buses however were dropping kids off from before 8. of them with alcohol. So they were perhaps in the car park for 1-2 hours before the incident happened and some at least were drinking. I'm not sure what onus is on the hotel to cater for or be responsible for supervising that. Perhaps they are responsible for managing that? I have no idea.

As for the two arrests, I would think this would be standard practice for something like this would it not? Just to give the authorities the mechanism for asking the questions and proper grounds for prosecution if deemed necessary.

To really make things worse, some very worrying news in the Dungannon area tonight. If anyone is from the area or has children in any way linked to the schools or the events of the weekend, please keep a very close eye on them. There are some very distressed children at the moment and children in distress can make some very rash decisions.

The organisers of the event were responsible for the wellbeing of those that attended - regardless of starting time. The owner of the property is responsible as well, for the wellbeing of people on his property, even if he was not the prime organiser of the event? This was a terrible thing to happen but it wasn't an accident. It was gross negligence. That some kids were drinking has nothing got to do with it.

Kid drinking would have a lot to do with it.  Gross negligence may be the cause or may not, but its as likely that the cause was those who were pushing the crowd forward for what they probably thought was a bit of craic.

There's alot of nervous teenagers knowing full well what they did, waiting on a knock on the door.

Thats the exact reason why many kids wont come forward with evidence or wont meet up with the police.

It wasnt just 10 or 15 kids pushing - the number was significantly higher
If you have crowd control you reduce the risk of shoving turning into a tragedy. I'll reiterate my earlier point - the purpose of "bouncers" is not to act like a hard man, which seems to be the prevailing attitide, but to act as security to ensure the safety of everyone. It is the owner's responsibility to ensure it is done properly.

LeoMc

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2019, 08:38:45 AM »
Firstly, deepest condolences to the familes and friends of the 3 teenagers. Absolutely shocking and really hits home as it could have happened to literally anyone, including myself or my friends at any venue in the country. Iím not going to point fingers without all the facts, but a serious review and changes need to happen with the way bouncers handle crowds at all night clubs. This keeping crowds outside for no reason needs to atop. If true that the doors were locked and people were refused to be let in when they were literally being crushed then thats absolutely shocking and horrifying. I hope justice is done and families can get some closure.

Was the venue not already full. That was my understanding. They have a duty of care to not over-fill it either.

Over the Bar

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #98 on: March 20, 2019, 08:40:39 AM »
No. It hadn't opened

LeoMc

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2019, 08:46:02 AM »
No. It hadn't opened
Are you sure. A neighbour of mine said she was inside and they knew something was going on but didn't know what.

imtommygunn

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2019, 09:07:28 AM »
Also that account that was given talks about people inside. News articles, though,  do say it hadn't opened so there seem to be conflicting stories.

Gold

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2019, 09:11:24 AM »
The point I was making about the arrest is that it has to be necessary to meet a certain condition. I was speculating to a degree but I canít think which of the conditions were likely to have necessitated an arrest. I would have thought anyone the police would have wanted to speak to would have attended voluntarily. If the suspected offence was manslaughter rather than corporate manslaughter then my thoughts might be somewhat different.

Should have been done voluntarily.

If arrested should've been done at 9am....not late in the afternoon when they knew fine well they wouldn't have been finished interviewing by night.... Meaning they had to sleep in an empty police cell.... All this while the evidence still isn't collected...... A major police incident room has only just been set up

This whole incident is tragic... Like a horror movie. In my opinion the police have jumped the gun

RIP to the poor teenagers, god help their families and all the ones who witnessed and are affected by it

We are all shocked and rattled by it
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:17:11 AM by Gold »
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Over the Bar

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2019, 09:17:06 AM »
No. It hadn't opened
Are you sure. A neighbour of mine said she was inside and they knew something was going on but didn't know what.

I'm not saying no-one was inside but my neighbours girl was there from before 9 and says the doors remained closed. 

When we used to go you could also get in through the main hotel if drinking in the bar so maybe that's still the case.

quit yo jibbajabba

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2019, 09:21:34 AM »
Yeah surely the restaurant/bar could be open while the nightclub wasnt. The arriving at 8 for a place not opening to 930 was a recipe for disaster too

And the reports of banging of windows for help, it couldve been punters and not actual workers that didnt help;

All in all plenty of questions but doesnt change what happened..

WT4E

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Re: Cookstown Incident
« Reply #104 on: March 20, 2019, 09:43:55 AM »
Kid drinking would have a lot to do with it.  Gross negligence may be the cause or may not, but its as likely that the cause was those who were pushing the crowd forward for what they probably thought was a bit of craic.

There's alot of nervous teenagers knowing full well what they did, waiting on a knock on the door.

I don't understand this train of thought.... in fact I think its disgusting/disgraceful. This is the type of rhetoric that was coming from the Sun news paper after the hillsborough disaster:

'drunken fans'
'people pushing at the back new they where killing people'

These children have been let down .... end of.

I know Mickey McElhatton to be a nice man and will be heartbroken about this... in my opinion he has been let down by his door staff.