Author Topic: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?  (Read 4082 times)

Fuzzman

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2017, 02:44:09 PM »
Of course I don't know for sure Whitey but what I would imagine what happened is that Sean was very frustrated going in at half time that Keegan was blocking his runs and holding him off the ball etc the way he does sometimes.

So he was possibly told at half time that he needs to get Keegan booked so that he's walking a tightrope so Sean came out and even before the 2nd half started Sean shouldered him to the ground and then both of them starting the handbags stuff which ended in both getting YELLOW cards.
Sean was probably thinking this would put an end to the nonsense which in a way it did but then Sean made that silly high tackle near the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCK3muWZcoU
49 secs in shows the best angle. It was hardly a clothes line tackle but it was high and silly and as soon as he made it he tries to pull his arm back out again quickly but too late. It was correctly a yellow.



trueblue1234

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2017, 03:44:08 PM »
I spoke to three people who were sitting behind the goal where the wrestling occurred at the beginning of the second half....all three said that the incident started when Cavanagh shouldered Keegan in the back and sent him flying....did that actually happen? If it did, then imho he deserved the first black....they both did

If you're on a black (for an incident you possibly instigated yourself), and then decide to clothesline someone in front of the referee you have no business going crying to the newspapers about how you were man marked.

If your on a black then I'd like to think you wouldn't be able to to clothline anyone apart from someone in the subs bench.
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criostlinn

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2017, 04:23:33 PM »
The problem here fuzzman is you're hanging the Dubs to long. You've decided that there is no way Lee Keegan could mark Sean Kavanagh unless he spent the whole game pulling and dragging out of him. The Dub's feel the same about Diarmuid Connolly. Ye have based this on absolutely nothing. Its a phrase commonly used. Lee Keegan spent the game pulling and dragging out of him. It seems any kind of marking on these two gods is not allowed. Sure let him make his run, stand back and let him through. Connolly and Keegan have had some of the most anticipated battles over the last few years. How many lenses is on them on this big occasions in Croke Park and yet the only example of this pulling and dragging is the clip you put up.

Yo use that clip from the All Ireland final to in some way prove your point. The clip could be interpreted any way. Lee Keegan stood his ground and Connolly ran into him. Connolly then took Keegan out of it to stop him getting back into defence enabling Dublin to score the goal. Granted that's looking at it through green and red glasses but what you've put up is no way conclusive. Why not put up something like Mayo's last attack of the game when Connolly blatantly dragged Keegan to the ground. You could spend the night trawling youtube for cynical play and find many examples of it and funnily enough feck all of them involve Lee Keegan dishng it out. (quite a few involve Connolly)

And to come on here comparing Keegan to the antics of others who spit, headbutt, eye gouge etc and spend the game sledging their opponent is crazy. Keegan never indulges in this carry on. His only problem is he had the audacity to mark Sean Kavanagh and Diarmuid Connolly out of it. Some of the commentary you read on Dublin fan pages and in the media from so called experts is bordering on the ridiculous and now the Tymoans are jumping on the bandwagon.  Keegan is now public enemy number one and for what. Its frustrating to read this thread put up by a usually reasonable poster. Mayo bet Tyrone last year and Sean Kavanagh played shite. Get over it. He has won plenty in his day and is more then entitled to have an off day.  We are into a new season and Tyrone could end up winning an All Ireland. Look to the future and stop dwelling on the past. Its a pity some wouldn't use the example set by Keegan after he got his black card in the Final. Shrug your shoulders and move on. It a tough game. Sometimes you get breaks, sometimes you don't  At times I wonder did Donald Trump base his whole election campaign and presidency to date on the Dublin media strategy last year

Fuzzman

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2017, 05:00:57 PM »
Lee Keegan is a lot younger & faster than Sean Cavanagh these days and so he shouldn't have to be resorting to pulling and dragging.
Let me ask you a few very simple questions. I presume you go to games and have watched Keegan in the flesh.
Have you saw how SOMETIMES when the ball is down the other side of the pitch that he wraps his arms around his man and holds onto him and then lets him go at the last moment when the ball is being hit in their direction?
Do you consider that to be fair enough marking?
Is that what you mean by "It seems any kind of marking on these two gods is not allowed". So do you think that should be allowed?
I've saw him do that loads of times and of course it is not caught by tv coverage as it's off the ball. The same way Cooper and Philly McMahon do stuff off the ball at times.

Your interpretation of Keegan stood his ground and Connolly ran into him is best described by your own sentence thru green and red glasses. I would agree he marked Sean Cavanagh out of it last year and sadly Sean isn't up the level of previous years.

Lets be clear, I have not said Keegan does other stuff like spit, sledging, eye gouge or headbutt so why are you making that up. Is it an attempt to discredit my story.

I was at the Donegal v Tyrone match in Ballybofey 2 years ago where Justin McMahon played a similar way when marking Michael Murphy. I can understand it is difficult to admit it when one of your players bends the rules in a manner to prevent the other team's best player from having a big impact on the game. You tend to make exceptions for the rule bending and choose not to see some incidents or at least admit you saw them.


Your last few sentences sum up for me the truth in where you say stop looking backwards at what Keegan done and brush it under the carpet. Sean has had plenty of days where players go out to stop him playing his usual game.
Your line that says shrug your shoulders and move on.
Does this mean Keegan accepted he done wrong and got punished correctly and so he shrugged his shoulder and moved on. I think he did that and I said before that was admirable of him. However, not one Mayo fan on here seems to agree that he did anything wrong? Go figure

whitey

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2017, 05:06:50 PM »
Lee Keegan is a lot younger & faster than Sean Cavanagh these days and so he shouldn't have to be resorting to pulling and dragging.
Let me ask you a few very simple questions. I presume you go to games and have watched Keegan in the flesh.
Have you saw how SOMETIMES when the ball is down the other side of the pitch that he wraps his arms around his man and holds onto him and then lets him go at the last moment when the ball is being hit in their direction?
Do you consider that to be fair enough marking?
Is that what you mean by "It seems any kind of marking on these two gods is not allowed". So do you think that should be allowed?
I've saw him do that loads of times and of course it is not caught by tv coverage as it's off the ball. The same way Cooper and Philly McMahon do stuff off the ball at times.

Your interpretation of Keegan stood his ground and Connolly ran into him is best described by your own sentence thru green and red glasses. I would agree he marked Sean Cavanagh out of it last year and sadly Sean isn't up the level of previous years.

Lets be clear, I have not said Keegan does other stuff like spit, sledging, eye gouge or headbutt so why are you making that up. Is it an attempt to discredit my story.

I was at the Donegal v Tyrone match in Ballybofey 2 years ago where Justin McMahon played a similar way when marking Michael Murphy. I can understand it is difficult to admit it when one of your players bends the rules in a manner to prevent the other team's best player from having a big impact on the game. You tend to make exceptions for the rule bending and choose not to see some incidents or at least admit you saw them.


Your last few sentences sum up for me the truth in where you say stop looking backwards at what Keegan done and brush it under the carpet. Sean has had plenty of days where players go out to stop him playing his usual game.
Your line that says shrug your shoulders and move on.
Does this mean Keegan accepted he done wrong and got punished correctly and so he shrugged his shoulder and moved on. I think he did that and I said before that was admirable of him. However, not one Mayo fan on here seems to agree that he did anything wrong? Go figure

So when Mickey Harte starts benching his sledgers, spitters and pinchers for unsportsmanlike conduct (like rugby managers do to their own players) come back on and ask the Mayo supporters how we feel about Lee Keegan's tactics.  From what I saw in the league game this year you guys don't have too much to be proud of

criostlinn

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2017, 06:30:37 PM »
Sorry Fuzzman but that is a ridiculous question. You are asking me "Have you saw how SOMETIMES when the ball is down the other side of the pitch that he wraps his arms around his man and holds onto him and then lets him go at the last moment when the ball is being hit in their direction"  Off the top of my head I cant give you an example but Id be surprised if he has never done it. Like every f**king defender that has ever played the game. But to say this is a common trait in Keegans games is pure nonsense. Keegan is one of the most attacking half backs in the game and to be honest it is him who receives this treatment a lot more then he dishes it out. One thing for sure he certainly wasn't at this against Tyrone as the behavior you describe would involve having the forward actually in front of the ball to receive the pass. But of course you've seen it loads of times. Cameras, umpires, linesmen, referees all miss it but Fuzzman is haunted by this behavior from Keegan.

As regards my last few sentences. When I say look forward. Maybe I should have been clearer. What I really meant was stop making shit up and stop making excuses as to why ye got bet last year. Its over. Its done. When Keegan shrugged his shoulders he knew he couldn't change anything. No point in complaining. It wasn't going to change anything. Of course no Mayo fan will agree he deserved a black card because he simply didn't but complaining on the internet 10 months later wont change that.

Even your description of what Keegan is at has changed over the last few pages. You don't seem to be quite sure what the problem is. Is he the spoiler of the year or does he sometimes hold a player and then let him go before the ball comes in. To listen to some of the Dubs you'd swear he'd ate your children. All I can recommend to you Fuzzman is stop listening to Anto and Deco down in the club house. Them boys only see what their mate on the hill told them happened.

Or you know what. Maybe this is Mickey Harte's new strategy for the year. It worked for the Dubs, why not Tyrone.  Send out the social media warriors. Keep repeating the same lines. It doesn't have to be true but say it often enough and it will stick. But Fuzzman you need to be more subtle about it and at least wait until a little later in the year. And a word of warning, if ye do play Mayo l there is no guarantee ye will get a ref like Maurice Deegan to fall for this shite

From the Bunker

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2017, 06:38:31 PM »
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MayoBuck

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2017, 09:10:13 PM »
Funny thing about it is even the rte cameras are ignoring Keegans carry on. Don't remember any footage over the last few years showing the behaviour you say Keegan is at. Connolly on the other hand....

Very interesting. So you say you've saw the Connolly's stuff but nothing on Keegan.
Are you saying this is all made up then and Keegan has done nothing wrong?

My reason for "picking" on Keegan as opposed to either of the McMahons or J.Cooper was that they are not winning player of the year and Lee Keegan did. Philly McMahon was close to winning player of the year a few years back but most people thought he wouldn't get it because of his dirty play.

Sean Cavanagh did ONE tackle on McManus a few years ago and thanks to Brolly it will probably be the main thing Sean will be remembered for. If Keegan played for Tyrone Brolly would give him a much harder time. Look how much flack Justin McMahon took for similar tactics on Michael Murphy in one game.

Yet Lee Keegan seems to continually foul Connolly and others in this way for years now and everyone seems to be turning a blind eye to it. I just can't really understand it but hey, sure it gives us all something to look forward to I suppose this year again.  ;D

Did you happen to miss every single national newspaper in the lead up to the replay last year? Or Mickey Harte whinging after Sean Cavanagh being sent off?

MayoBuck

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2017, 09:27:07 PM »
I spoke to three people who were sitting behind the goal where the wrestling occurred at the beginning of the second half....all three said that the incident started when Cavanagh shouldered Keegan in the back and sent him flying....did that actually happen? If it did, then imho he deserved the first black....they both did

If you're on a yellow (for an incident you possibly instigated yourself), and then decide to clothesline someone in front of the referee you have no business going crying to the newspapers about how you were man marked.

Yes that's what happened, I was directly in line with it. Mayo were out first for the 2nd half and Keegan was standing in the full back position. Cavanagh barged straight into Lee's back. Also, while Cavanagh's 2nd yellow was slightly harsh, he should have been sent off a few minutes previously when he grabbed Lee's arm and pulled him to ground trying to engineer a free. The ref didn't fall for it and gave Mayo the free but surely when you're caught doing some thing as cynical as that you should be given a card?

FYI, Keegan didn't commit a single foul during the Tyrone game. Over the course of the 2 All Ireland finals, he committed 1 foul and was black carded for it. Maybe refs should be more lenient on him when you see what certain players on other teams get away with? Of course when people continually try to blacken his name referees are bound to be influenced when he does commit the odd foul.

Lar Naparka

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2017, 11:50:23 AM »
Lee Keegan is a lot younger & faster than Sean Cavanagh these days and so he shouldn't have to be resorting to pulling and dragging.
Let me ask you a few very simple questions. I presume you go to games and have watched Keegan in the flesh.
Have you saw how SOMETIMES when the ball is down the other side of the pitch that he wraps his arms around his man and holds onto him and then lets him go at the last moment when the ball is being hit in their direction?
Do you consider that to be fair enough marking?
Is that what you mean by "It seems any kind of marking on these two gods is not allowed". So do you think that should be allowed?
I've saw him do that loads of times and of course it is not caught by tv coverage as it's off the ball. The same way Cooper and Philly McMahon do stuff off the ball at times.

Your interpretation of Keegan stood his ground and Connolly ran into him is best described by your own sentence thru green and red glasses. I would agree he marked Sean Cavanagh out of it last year and sadly Sean isn't up the level of previous years.

Lets be clear, I have not said Keegan does other stuff like spit, sledging, eye gouge or headbutt so why are you making that up. Is it an attempt to discredit my story.

I was at the Donegal v Tyrone match in Ballybofey 2 years ago where Justin McMahon played a similar way when marking Michael Murphy. I can understand it is difficult to admit it when one of your players bends the rules in a manner to prevent the other team's best player from having a big impact on the game. You tend to make exceptions for the rule bending and choose not to see some incidents or at least admit you saw them.


Your last few sentences sum up for me the truth in where you say stop looking backwards at what Keegan done and brush it under the carpet. Sean has had plenty of days where players go out to stop him playing his usual game.
Your line that says shrug your shoulders and move on.
Does this mean Keegan accepted he done wrong and got punished correctly and so he shrugged his shoulder and moved on. I think he did that and I said before that was admirable of him. However, not one Mayo fan on here seems to agree that he did anything wrong? Go figure
Jayusus, Fuzzy, you got 5 pages out of this topic and no sign of a let up either. Dunno what the fuss is about really. Leroy got the gong because he was the player of the year. Period. What about his black card?  If you've been reading the same papers that I have, youk'll have found that just about every sportswriter that commented on THAT incident, felt Keegan was harshly treated. He deserved a yellow- no doubt about that but you can replay the DVD until Tyrone cleans up their act or the Shannon ruins dry- whichever is the sooner and you won't see anything to deserve a black card..  I've no problem accepting that Keegan does practice the dark arts but is he spoiler of the year?
Hah? well he is on me arse!
To even get a look in for that he'd need to be wearing a Dubs jersey or at the very least a Kerry one.
Remember the League final last year when Eamonn Fitz was moaning that Donaghy was "raped and pillaged" throughout the game and the referees did nothing about it. Just by coincidence, it happened that Kerry lost that one.
This year Kerry scraped home and it was Dublin's turn to moan and bitch about the referee. Teams, officials and supporters see what they want to see and nothing more. While Keego was giving Dermo a few well-deserved clatters about the lugs, Philly and Jonny were doing far worse to Aido at the other end and Mayo were men enough to get on with it and no go bawling for sympathy wherever they could find it.

Fuzzman

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2017, 12:40:17 PM »
Good man Lar, at least you're man enough to admit that Keegan does practice the dark arts and I agree he's far from the worst of them. I suppose I just wish he'd stick to playing the ball rather than the man so much.
Did you see him in the league game v Dublin with him holding on to O'Gara so much?
Yes of course Tyrone and other teams done the same but that doesn't make it right. When Cavanagh did the rugby tackle that year Brolly was amazed that Martin Carney gave the man of the match award to Sean. So was I.

He's one of your best attacking defenders and if he wasn't getting involved so much with man handling his man he could be kicking more scores for Mayo. How would he fare in the half forward line?

As you can imagine living in Dublin, I'm keen to see the Dubs get beaten like many others from outside the capital and I've no love for Connolly but I just think Mayo/Keegan are a bit too obsessed with trying to stop Connolly to the detriment of Keegan's own game. You've got plenty other good defenders who could mark Connolly.


mup

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2017, 12:43:25 PM »
Totally agree Whitey and as a Tyrone man living in Dublin I know exactly how the bias can be.
At least your lot are doing interviews with RTE but Tyrone won't engage with RTE at all and so Brolly and Co can say what they like with no-one to pick them up.
I like Whelan on TSG as he's one of the few who is able to stand up to Brolly but he's also awfully biased and won't say too much to hurt the Dubs.

Philly McMahon is the one that bothers me the most on the Dublin team with the antics he has done and got away with. The eye gouge he did on Donaghy was amazing he didn't get a lengthy ban for that.

From the Bunker has nailed it on the head that I've got an axe to grind with Mayo after they used foul methods to deny my beloved Tyrone a day in the limelight v Dublin in the final. Had Keegan played in his usual half back role and not been holding Cavanagh all first half then we would have won.
So to see him then get  away with it again v poor Dublin, who we know are the new saviours of football  :o was too much for me to take.
I've been around long enough to know that every successful team needs a tough/dirty spoiler type player or two but what comes with that is a bad reputation and a lot of people disliking you see Ricey and McGee threads, NOT player of the year awards.
I've no problem with Lee Keegan doing what he does as long as he gets his punishment when he's caught. For me that is not happening and so we'll see more of it again this year no doubt.

At last. We have a reason for the thread.

blast05

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2017, 01:50:21 PM »
Quote
Is it an attempt to discredit my story.

At least we're now clear its all a story Fuzzman.

So, you have an issue with players pushing the letter of the law a bit far .... some a lot more than others.
At one extreme you have the likes of Mayos Ger Cafferkey who is a bit too nice for his own good.
In the middle you have Lee Keegan who will do a bit of pulling and dragging in line what his opponent will as often do to him when he bounds forward. Vast majority of players fit into this middle category.
And then you have the real dark arts, dirty guys.... i won't bother naming names here but yes, we can all name 1 or 2 straight off.

So, why is your focus on one of the mid-rank guys like Lee Keegan?
If you have such a philosophical issue with foul play in the game then be fair about and focus on the real perpetrators rather than being tabloidesque about it focusing on Keegan

PS .... focusing on Keegan won't change the result of the All-Ireland quarter final last year.

Fuzzman

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2017, 02:58:12 PM »
So, why is your focus on one of the mid-rank guys like Lee Keegan?


I presume you've not read the whole thread Blast05 as that has been answered already.
I chose to focus on Keegan as I don't believe he should have won player of the year as his main job in most matches is to be the spoiler. He is quite good at that job but he's also quite a good footballer as I've said numerous times.

I can understand there is a place for spoiling tactics in our game but I just don't believe that this should be rewarded with a prize at the end of the year.

mup

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2017, 03:44:08 PM »
You also have a wet one for Connolly. The same player who has driven his knees in to the back of the head of a player who was lying face down on the ground.

If that's what you call 'trying to play the game fairly' then you are seriously deluded.