Author Topic: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?  (Read 4100 times)

Farrandeelin

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2017, 08:23:01 PM »
It won't be happening this year. Mayo will bow out before the last 8 in my opinion.
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Syferus

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2017, 09:29:30 PM »
It won't be happening this year. Mayo will bow out before the last 8 in my opinion.

Loss to Ros.

Jinxy

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2017, 11:56:00 PM »
What was it Graham Geraghty said to that aboriginal lad?

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macdanger2

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2017, 12:11:09 AM »
Now that the leagues are finished and the championship is about to get under way I thought would this be a good time to discuss the Lee Keegan v Diarmuid Connolly saga again as we can't be accused of influencing the referee before a big game?

Of course the Mayo lads won't be pleased that I'm focusing on one of their players and no doubt many will come back at me saying Tyrone have had several players who behaved the same over the years but I think it is still well worth the debate as this seems to rumble on every year now.

If you watch the video below from last year's replay, some people will argue that Keegan didn't do much wrong and that Connolly felt his arms on him and so he dived to the ground to get a black card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_bzJyj0tA
If you pause it on 9 seconds you will see Keegan's hands grabbing the front of Connolly's shirt and then he puts his arm around his shoulders and finally his hand goes onto Connolly's mouth. Connolly goes to ground then quite easily as he knew he was fouled but it's not until you go to ground that the ref will definitely make a decision.

Now that is the last incident between these two players but as we all know there were several more incidents before that one and also Keegan was playing a similar way against Sean Cavanagh in the quarterfinal.

Firstly I think the application of the rules regarding these two players have been a total disgrace.
Of course it's not an easy decision for the refs but I think because this has been an ongoing battle between the two players now for several years that something needs to be done about it. It is just too easy to say "Ah calm down, let them at it and they'll sort it out themselves" as Tomas O'Se said below
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-sums-up-the-diarmuid-connollylee-keegan-saga-perfectly-35095414.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUYDFZxNQdw

Tom said "Jesus, there’s nothing malicious going on there other than two fellas trying to get the better of each other."
Maybe it's because Tomás played as a defender and had to mark lots of top quality forwards over the years or maybe it's his anti Dublin bias but to me there is nothing fair about how Keegan tries to stop Connolly from playing.
Basically he pulls and drags his man, off the ball, for most of the game to prevent him from making runs into dangerous places to receive a pass with him often dragging him to the ground and the two players getting into a wrestling match. I think the rules needs to be changed so that there is not this silly punishment of booking the two players involved EVERY time one player gets involved with another player which ends up with this holding their shirt or worse their neck etc.

For many people Connolly has a bad history of getting sent off and over reacting but to me the rules of GAA should be there to promote fair play and be there to protect the player who wants to play the game fairly. As many manager has said before it is usually the forward who wants to get the ball and to attack and it's the job of the defender to stop his man from doing that. Of course we've seen times where the forward will try to cheat the referee by diving or feigning injury but if you look back over the incidents between these two players, 9 times out of 10 you see Connolly trying to make a run away from his man and Keegan getting in his way or dragging him down to the ground.
I am amazed how often the ref, linesmen and umpires see this happening but do very little to stop it. So then naturally the player himself then reacts and often both players end up getting a yellow card or sent off.
Ask yourself is this what we want? Do we think it's OK for the defender to antagonise the forward by various means to get a reaction and to see him being sent off? If Connolly played for Mayo and was their best forward would you feel the same way and just say "ah he's a big lad, he can look after himself".

To be honest with you, I am no big fan of Connolly but I do think we need to be trying to protect our best players to be allowed to play football rather than seeing "a job" being done on them and so they end up being sent off along with the player who started the whole thing. I just think the rules don't seem to protect the forward (or any player) who wants to play the ball rather than the man and too often the desired intention of the fouling player is achieved in that he is stopping the forward from playing well and getting scores in an unfair manner.

In fairness to Keegan, any time he's been black or red carded he just walks off and accepts it as he knows he's bending the rules and so living on the edge whereas lots of other players will claim their innocence.
I also know that Keegan is not the only player who uses this type of tactic to put players off and Connolly has shown he too can play him at his own game but I suppose I just am amazed how the CCCC are happy to let this ongoing battle happen year after year and nothing be done about it. The more he gets away with it the more it will be copied by other players.

Perhaps an interesting question but if you really want to discuss it, you need to take the personalities out of it. I suspect you may already know that though  ;)

As a matter of interest, is it only backs who foul AND get the better of their man we should take action against or all backs who foul??

I had a chuckle at the "more it will be copied by other players"  ;D ;D Unbelievable that nobody thought to try this until Lee came along

Fuzzman

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2017, 12:52:15 PM »
Naturally when I thought about starting this new thread I thought to myself is it worth the hassle as no doubt I'll get loads of shit thrown back in my face about Tyrone and players like Ricey, Gormley and more recently Justin McMahon.

I did say Tyrone have their fair share of players who do things that are illegal and very hard to watch in the game and I agree that Justin McMahon has changed his game to become a spoiler sometimes, especially on players like Murphy from Donegal. I can not condemn it but what I'm saying is too many of us accept it and you can see on here not one person has agreed and said yes something should be done about it.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Too many, including the officials just think Ah sure it's fair enough. Nobody is getting badly injured and as there is a pair of them at it then let them sort it out themselves.
There are rules there that are not being applied and if the ref was to black or yellow card every time he saw it then it would soon stop. The linesmen and umpires are probably more to blame actually as most of it happens off the ball as the forward is making a run into space.

For those who questioned do I think it's just defenders who use this tactic. To be honest yes I think it is as it is their job to stop the forward from playing well and scoring. Forwards want to get the ball in their hands and so often try to make a run into space to get a score, however, they will sometimes react in the same way if their man is doing it to them and getting away with it then they will no doubt try to do the same in retaliation and so we saw Connolly pulling Keegan and others down as well.

What's disappointing for me is most people's response here has been sure he's not the only one doing it and he didn't invent it and you can't judge as Tyrone are the same etc etc

Lee Keegan might not have invented it but he's taken it to another level and for the most part getting away with it, as did Justy McMahon on Murphy a few years ago. Keegan seems to be doing it all the time now yet nothing seems to be done about it as far as I can see.

A simple question for those who are defending it.
Do you think what he's doing is fair enough?
Do you think it is legal?
Do you think that it is usually Keegan who starts it or have you saw Connolly start it first?
How would you feel if AOS was dragged down like that every time he made a run?

Macdanger, you ask is it just backs who foul and get the better of their man or all backs that foul.
Yet another silly question to try to defend his actions. We all know full well what we're talking about here. Players who have no intention of trying to defend legitimately and just focus all their attention on stopping their man from making runs off the ball when the ref isn't maybe watching him.

As someone said maybe it's about the personalities involved here. Connolly is seen by many as a non very likeable character who was charged with CBH or something to that affect. He's a Dub and so most neutrals want to see Mayo beat them and taking Connolly "out of the game" certainly will help them win the All Ireland.

As Il Bomber Destro said, it's amazing how many people defend the dark arts for some counties yet for others it his highlighted on national media. The furore over the Sean Cavanagh rugby tackle which was a once off event yet here is something that has been going on over several matches that most seem to say "Ah it's not that bad".



macdanger2

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 01:33:01 PM »
Fuzzman, it's only a silly question if you misunderstand it - it was not a defence of Keegan. What percentage of Keegan's play would you say is cynical spoiling? And what percent is footballing ability?


Hound

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2017, 01:54:42 PM »
Fuzzman, it's only a silly question if you misunderstand it - it was not a defence of Keegan. What percentage of Keegan's play would you say is cynical spoiling? And what percent is footballing ability?
Depends on who Mayo are playing!

The first final last year, he had no interest in the ball at all (when Mayo had it). And neither player ended up contributing a whole heap other than cancelling each other out.

For the replay, he'd clearly got different instructions and was contributing a lot more until his black card offence, although this maybe gave Connolly a little bit more room.   

Nothing wrong with being a spoiler. Up to the manager what role a player has. If he was a Dub, his role in our team would be completely different to what we saw him do against Tipp, Tyrone and Dublin last year. But maybe we have more spoilers available for the task than Mayo do.

Syferus

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 02:04:23 PM »
Fuzzman, it's only a silly question if you misunderstand it - it was not a defence of Keegan. What percentage of Keegan's play would you say is cynical spoiling? And what percent is footballing ability?
Depends on who Mayo are playing!

The first final last year, he had no interest in the ball at all (when Mayo had it). And neither player ended up contributing a whole heap other than cancelling each other out.

For the replay, he'd clearly got different instructions and was contributing a lot more until his black card offence, although this maybe gave Connolly a little bit more room.   

Nothing wrong with being a spoiler. Up to the manager what role a player has. If he was a Dub, his role in our team would be completely different to what we saw him do against Tipp, Tyrone and Dublin last year. But maybe we have more spoilers available for the task than Mayo do.

What Keegan does is cute. What Philly does is scummy..

Blowitupref

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 02:48:31 PM »
It won't be happening this year. Mayo will bow out before the last 8 in my opinion.
To be realistic Mayo should reach the last 4 at least again for for the 7th year in a row.

As for the topic of this thread.. Today's modern championship football is based on solid defensive systems and it's only natural that the current footballer of the year is a defender. It's a spoiler for the lovers of offensive football I suppose but the game will be like this for many years to come.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 02:50:07 PM by Blowitupref »
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Lar Naparka

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 04:21:21 PM »
Naturally when I thought about starting this new thread I thought to myself is it worth the hassle as no doubt I'll get loads of shit thrown back in my face about Tyrone and players like Ricey, Gormley and more recently Justin McMahon.

I did say Tyrone have their fair share of players who do things that are illegal and very hard to watch in the game and I agree that Justin McMahon has changed his game to become a spoiler sometimes, especially on players like Murphy from Donegal. I can not condemn it but what I'm saying is too many of us accept it and you can see on here not one person has agreed and said yes something should be done about it.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Too many, including the officials just think Ah sure it's fair enough. Nobody is getting badly injured and as there is a pair of them at it then let them sort it out themselves.
There are rules there that are not being applied and if the ref was to black or yellow card every time he saw it then it would soon stop. The linesmen and umpires are probably more to blame actually as most of it happens off the ball as the forward is making a run into space.

For those who questioned do I think it's just defenders who use this tactic. To be honest yes I think it is as it is their job to stop the forward from playing well and scoring. Forwards want to get the ball in their hands and so often try to make a run into space to get a score, however, they will sometimes react in the same way if their man is doing it to them and getting away with it then they will no doubt try to do the same in retaliation and so we saw Connolly pulling Keegan and others down as well.

What's disappointing for me is most people's response here has been sure he's not the only one doing it and he didn't invent it and you can't judge as Tyrone are the same etc etc

Lee Keegan might not have invented it but he's taken it to another level and for the most part getting away with it, as did Justy McMahon on Murphy a few years ago. Keegan seems to be doing it all the time now yet nothing seems to be done about it as far as I can see.

A simple question for those who are defending it.
Do you think what he's doing is fair enough?
Do you think it is legal?
Do you think that it is usually Keegan who starts it or have you saw Connolly start it first?
How would you feel if AOS was dragged down like that every time he made a run?

Macdanger, you ask is it just backs who foul and get the better of their man or all backs that foul.
Yet another silly question to try to defend his actions. We all know full well what we're talking about here. Players who have no intention of trying to defend legitimately and just focus all their attention on stopping their man from making runs off the ball when the ref isn't maybe watching him.

As someone said maybe it's about the personalities involved here. Connolly is seen by many as a non very likeable character who was charged with CBH or something to that affect. He's a Dub and so most neutrals want to see Mayo beat them and taking Connolly "out of the game" certainly will help them win the All Ireland.

As Il Bomber Destro said, it's amazing how many people defend the dark arts for some counties yet for others it his highlighted on national media. The furore over the Sean Cavanagh rugby tackle which was a once off event yet here is something that has been going on over several matches that most seem to say "Ah it's not that bad".
I have seen Connolly launch s preemptive strike, if you follow me. Just don't have the video to hand so I| can't give you the exact details but in the AI final in 2012, there was a stoppage somewhere and the camera switched to Connolly and Keegan, isolated from the rest. Clear as day, Connolly was standing behind his man and jabbing him with fingers in the back of the neck.  Keegan was attempting to drive him away by jabbing backwards with his elbow. All the while, Connolly was saying something to his man and I don't think he was asking him to come for a few pints after the game.
That's the only time I saw Connolly getting his retaliation in first but I can't say I saw much of what Keegan has done either. All dark arts practitioners seem to be expert at their job and they have to be when there is tv coverage with action replays and the likes.
I think Aidan O'Shea gets at least as much stick as Connolly does and he has both Cooper and McMahon hanging out of him all the time. That doesn't excuse Keegan but it does put the issue in perspective.
Tyrone are nowhere near as dirty as Kerry or Dublin. Mickey's men are only amateurs where it comes to sneaky fouling. After the league final this year, Dublin spent a lot of time moaning about the referee and the amount of Kerry transgressions he ignored. Last time they met, it was Eamonn Fitzmaurice who was doing the howling. He spoke of Doheny being 'pillaged and raped' repeatedly while the ref did sweet FA about it.
Bottom line is that any team that wants to go anywhere won't be too fussed with the rules if they can get by through fair or foul means.

Jinxy

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2017, 05:13:13 PM »
It won't be happening this year. Mayo will bow out before the last 8 in my opinion.
To be realistic Mayo should reach the last 4 at least again for for the 7th year in a row.

As for the topic of this thread.. Today's modern championship football is based on solid defensive systems and it's only natural that the current footballer of the year is a defender. It's a spoiler for the lovers of offensive football I suppose but the game will be like this for many years to come.

Keegan is one of the most offensive defenders in the game.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Blowitupref

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2017, 05:41:04 PM »
It won't be happening this year. Mayo will bow out before the last 8 in my opinion.
To be realistic Mayo should reach the last 4 at least again for for the 7th year in a row.

As for the topic of this thread.. Today's modern championship football is based on solid defensive systems and it's only natural that the current footballer of the year is a defender. It's a spoiler for the lovers of offensive football I suppose but the game will be like this for many years to come.

Keegan is one of the most offensive defenders in the game.
Yes and solid defenders that can outscore their markers from play are worth their weigh in gold.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

tonto1888

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2017, 07:51:03 PM »
Fuzz.
Is it fair enough? As long as he refs let him away with it then yeah. It's not legal in my eyes but if the refs aren't blowing then crack on. If the refs do their job right he may stop doing it. Same for the likes of Cooper, McMahon, J McMahon etc

rrhf

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2017, 06:39:41 AM »
When do they release Meath 96 greatest hits collection.
The problem is nowadays many of us forget what real dirt is. This dirt hurt.

Jinxy

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Re: Lee Keegan - Player of the year or spoiler of the year?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2017, 10:27:15 AM »
Manly dirt.
If you were any use you'd be playing.