Author Topic: Gooch Retires  (Read 10125 times)

Main Street

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #195 on: April 10, 2017, 06:58:55 PM »
 It's a bit ironic in the scheme of Brolly's contradictory wind vane madness, that (warrior spirited) Canavan's very last act on the football pitch was to drag down Cooper in a Cavanagh like rugby tackle, to prevent him from continuing with Kerry's last attack in the 2005 AI final.

 


Syferus

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #196 on: April 10, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »
It's a bit ironic in the scheme of Brolly's contradictory wind vane madness, that (warrior spirited) Canavan's very last act on the football pitch was to drag down Cooper in a Cavanagh like rugby tackle, to prevent him from continuing with Kerry's last attack in the 2005 AI final.

A visual representation of where the two sit in the annals of GAA history..

lenny

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #197 on: April 10, 2017, 09:21:37 PM »
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

You've completely missed the point.

Nobody is expecting Cooper to have went through his career without having a bad day at the office or going missing now and again when needed. That happens every player.

However, in Cooper's career there has been the distinct absence of any case that can be referred to where in a big game, when Kerry really need him to take a game by the scruff of the neck, where it actually came to fruition. Canavan did it throughout his career, you might recall the time when you lads were reigning All Ireland champions and he inspired his side who were down to 13 men to an Ulster semi final victory over you. For most of the 90s Canavan was a one man team. Cavanagh has plenty of those moments as well, the Ulster final last year, the 2008 All Ireland final. Guys like Joyce, Bradley, McManus, McConville are guys who delivered the goods on a consistent basis and did it when the heat was on.

But there are none of these moments for Cooper and while he might be one of the most talented players of his generation, he's not one of the greatest.

05 against Tyrone he scored 0-5 and set up Kerry's first goal before getting taken out of it. In 2008 he scored 6 points. When kerry lost to Down in 2010 he practically won an all star for his performance setting up two goal chances out of nothing . In 2011 against Dublin he scored 1-3 and let's not forget his performance against Dublin in the 2013 semi final or the 2007 semi final when he ripped the Dubs apart.

stew

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #198 on: April 10, 2017, 09:56:23 PM »
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

I will remember him for being a big soft hoor that loved to dive at every opportunity, oh yeah, and he was an incredible footballer to boot.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #199 on: April 10, 2017, 10:05:05 PM »
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

You've completely missed the point.

Nobody is expecting Cooper to have went through his career without having a bad day at the office or going missing now and again when needed. That happens every player.

However, in Cooper's career there has been the distinct absence of any case that can be referred to where in a big game, when Kerry really need him to take a game by the scruff of the neck, where it actually came to fruition. Canavan did it throughout his career, you might recall the time when you lads were reigning All Ireland champions and he inspired his side who were down to 13 men to an Ulster semi final victory over you. For most of the 90s Canavan was a one man team. Cavanagh has plenty of those moments as well, the Ulster final last year, the 2008 All Ireland final. Guys like Joyce, Bradley, McManus, McConville are guys who delivered the goods on a consistent basis and did it when the heat was on.

But there are none of these moments for Cooper and while he might be one of the most talented players of his generation, he's not one of the greatest.

05 against Tyrone he scored 0-5 and set up Kerry's first goal before getting taken out of it. In 2008 he scored 6 points. When kerry lost to Down in 2010 he practically won an all star for his performance setting up two goal chances out of nothing . In 2011 against Dublin he scored 1-3 and let's not forget his performance against Dublin in the 2013 semi final or the 2007 semi final when he ripped the Dubs apart.

And pray tell us, where was he when the game was in the melting pot in the second half in those games?

Tell me.

The Stallion

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #200 on: April 10, 2017, 10:51:00 PM »
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #201 on: April 10, 2017, 10:53:46 PM »
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Canavan.

Keyboard Warrior

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #202 on: April 12, 2017, 01:40:15 PM »
It's a bit ironic in the scheme of Brolly's contradictory wind vane madness, that (warrior spirited) Canavan's very last act on the football pitch was to drag down Cooper in a Cavanagh like rugby tackle, to prevent him from continuing with Kerry's last attack in the 2005 AI final.

A visual representation of where the two sit in the annals of GAA history..

...or that Kerry happened to be on the attack in that particular game

From the Bunker

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #203 on: April 12, 2017, 09:14:49 PM »
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Canavan.

You can't disagree with that?

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #204 on: April 12, 2017, 10:40:54 PM »
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Canavan.

You can't disagree with that?

Player or forward?

Syferus

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #205 on: April 12, 2017, 11:01:04 PM »
Gooch was the best I've ever seen. Canavan doesn't come close.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 12:18:51 AM by Syferus »

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #206 on: April 12, 2017, 11:02:18 PM »
Go on was the best I've ever seen. Cavavan doesn't come close.

Eh?

macdanger2

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #207 on: April 12, 2017, 11:38:00 PM »
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #208 on: April 12, 2017, 11:41:34 PM »
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

I can remember the games against Monaghan and I'm pretty sure they put Dessie Mone on Cooper both times and Cooper was peripheral. From what I remember of the Sligo game, it was Galvin who took Kerry over the line that day. The Armagh game in 2006 was all about Darragh O'Se and Donaghy.

Did Kerry really care too much about Munster finals, is that really as good as it got for Cooper?

Never beat the deeler

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Re: Gooch Retires
« Reply #209 on: April 13, 2017, 01:12:51 AM »
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

Sligo, 2009: 2 points (Kerry scored 0-14, won by a point)
Monaghan, 2008: Didn't score (Kerry scored 1-13, won by 3)
Monaghan, 2007 qf: Scored 3 of Kerry's 1-12, won by 1. MFR top scored with 4)
Westmeath, 2012: Scored 3 of Kerry's 2-10, won by 1. Sheehan top scored with 1-3)

Had some right good returns in the Munster c'ship but I haven't time to look into these right now.

Of course scores don't always tell the full story either. He was a very selfless player when someone else was in a better scoring position and had a hand in many goals for Kerry
Hasta la victoria siempre