Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 156712 times)

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #300 on: January 15, 2016, 07:27:24 AM »
But over 90% of the southern electorate who voted, in 1998,jettisoned articles 2 and 3.Vague notions in favour of a UI are useless.There is no vision,strategy of appetite,North or South, to make it happen.The North is and always has been part of the Dublin Government's Foreign Affairs Dept,that says it all.

Applesisapples

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #301 on: January 15, 2016, 09:48:17 AM »
But over 90% of the southern electorate who voted, in 1998,jettisoned articles 2 and 3.Vague notions in favour of a UI are useless.There is no vision,strategy of appetite,North or South, to make it happen.The North is and always has been part of the Dublin Government's Foreign Affairs Dept,that says it all.
Why are you complaining sure you want to create a new Northern Ireland that would be alien to that awful Republic. The number of people supporting your suggestion would be even less than the number who voted for NI21. You can't make assumptions as to why people don't vote or if they were pushed to it what they would vote for. You are buying into Mike Nesbitt's view that these are all dormant unionist voters. A lot of nationalists don't vote either most likely because they don't see the assembly in this little statelet as having any actual power. Before you create this identity it is likely to split between those who would classify themselves as Northern Irish and those who would be a Northern Ireland person. Most unionists can't utter the word Irish in any context preferring Robinsons Aaland, Ulster or Norn Iron.

johnneycool

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #302 on: January 15, 2016, 10:35:02 AM »
Bertiebolox only represents himself and as for the "southern part of this island" ....
I' m not too sure how Munster and South Leinster people feel about Unity.
Round here most people would favour it but it's not something which keeps people from sleeping at night.
However it would help if pro U I parties spelled out what shape they'd see a UI taking and what arrangements would be made for the "Ulster British".
Vague blather about a 32 County Socialist Republic which will never happen is no addition.
Although Gerry did recently say something at a SF thingy in Dundalk along the lines of " A UI may not take the shape most of you think and it may have some devolution to Belfawst ".

Didn't Éire Nua not have four provincial parliaments with a Federal 32 county government overseeing it.
I'm not sure if modern Sinn Féin still are advocates of that now though!

general_lee

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #303 on: January 15, 2016, 10:55:26 AM »
Most unionists can't utter the word Irish in any context preferring Robinsons Aaland, Ulster or Norn Iron.
Don't forget "London-dre"

AQMP

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #304 on: January 15, 2016, 11:51:13 AM »
Yes broken record is right.For 100 years people up here have been trying to make this place as Brotish as Finchley or reunify Ireland.Today both scenarios are further away than ever.What is the point continuing to chase outcomes that are never going to happen?

NI21 were unsuccessful but that doesn't mean their aims weren't admirable


No, and the desire to establish a United Ireland has been unsuccessful but that doesn't mean that the aim is not admirable.

NI21 is a busted flush mostly because the middle class Northern Irish couldn't help but fall out amongst themselves...oh and nobody voted for them

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #305 on: January 15, 2016, 02:41:43 PM »
Nobody is denying Irish Unity is an admirable aim.It is a fact that there is no real significant desire much less a.strategy.to make it happen North or South so what is the.point of pining.for it?

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #306 on: January 15, 2016, 03:13:09 PM »
Nobody is denying Irish Unity is an admirable aim.It is a fact that there is no real significant desire much less a.strategy.to make it happen North or South so what is the.point of pining.for it?

The mainfest useless of politicians, especially thr 6 county variety, suggests that even moderate competance would be a vast improvement and given the long period of time involved there had to some hope of this emerging, as it did in Scotland. 
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #307 on: January 15, 2016, 03:37:22 PM »
And the 26 county variety who bankrupted the state are any better how? Repeat after me A United Ireland is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes.The southern government and people don't want it,northern nationalists don't even want it,there is no plan or strategy to achieve it..
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 06:26:47 PM by T Fearon »

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #308 on: January 15, 2016, 07:00:06 PM »
And the 26 county variety who bankrupted the state are any better how? Repeat after me A United Ireland is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes.

The 26 county state is not bankrupt. There may be a delay in a United ireland, which may delay i tbeyond the lifespans of oul fellows like us, but I'm going to cut down on sugar and hope.

Quote from: T Fearon
The southern government and people don't want it,northern nationalists don't even want it,there is no plan or strategy to achieve it..

Those who don't want it, as distinct from having a realistic appreciation of the issues, cannot be described as nationalists but should title themselves unionists.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #309 on: January 15, 2016, 07:51:46 PM »
They are not unionists more like ABUs Anything But Unity.Seriously its not going to happen.

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #310 on: January 15, 2016, 11:33:53 PM »
And the 26 county variety who bankrupted the state are any better how? Repeat after me A United Ireland is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes.

The 26 county state is not bankrupt. There may be a delay in a United ireland, which may delay i tbeyond the lifespans of oul fellows like us, but I'm going to cut down on sugar and hope.

Quote from: T Fearon
The southern government and people don't want it,northern nationalists don't even want it,there is no plan or strategy to achieve it..

Those who don't want it, as distinct from having a realistic appreciation of the issues, cannot be described as nationalists but should title themselves unionists.

yip true. The big truth is that there are plenty of NI citizens born into a catholic or nationalist tradition who do not aspire to a united ireland. Simple stuff really. But why do SF point to relative "catholic" and "protestant" birth rates in this scenario?

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #311 on: January 16, 2016, 06:05:00 AM »
It's all part of the sham,trying to spook the brainless on the other "side".

Applesisapples

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #312 on: January 16, 2016, 08:52:57 AM »
And the 26 county variety who bankrupted the state are any better how? Repeat after me A United Ireland is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes.

The 26 county state is not bankrupt. There may be a delay in a United ireland, which may delay i tbeyond the lifespans of oul fellows like us, but I'm going to cut down on sugar and hope.

Quote from: T Fearon
The southern government and people don't want it,northern nationalists don't even want it,there is no plan or strategy to achieve it..

Those who don't want it, as distinct from having a realistic appreciation of the issues, cannot be described as nationalists but should title themselves unionists.

yip true. The big truth is that there are plenty of NI citizens born into a catholic or nationalist tradition who do not aspire to a united ireland. Simple stuff really. But why do SF point to relative "catholic" and "protestant" birth rates in this scenario?
Simply because at some stage that catholic majority may be persuaded to support unity.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #313 on: January 16, 2016, 09:50:59 AM »
There are no "NI citizens" ;)
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #314 on: January 16, 2016, 10:39:35 AM »
It is one of the paradoxes that Sinn Fein,espousers of republicanism which is supposed to be secular with the aim of uniting Protestant,Catholic and dissenter,tried to use the more taigs than prods in N Belfast,before last year's election,showing they are as equally adept/contemptible as unionists in the practice of sectarianism for electoral gain.

Until the fixation with nationalism/unionism is replaced by a common N Irish identity (which would have an equal place in a United Ireland as it would under the current constitutional position), normal politics will never happen here,and unattainable goals and the consequences will always prevail.