Author Topic: Ashers cake controversy.  (Read 47634 times)

seafoid

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #450 on: October 26, 2016, 06:44:01 PM »
While I agree no one should be refused service on account of their sexual leaning,or anything else,there should be limits on product or service adornments/messages,especially when there is a conscience related conflict arising out of such adornments.
There should be clear song and dance limitations
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muppet

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #451 on: October 26, 2016, 07:30:37 PM »
While I agree no one should be refused service on account of their sexual leaning,or anything else,there should be limits on product or service adornments/messages,especially when there is a conscience related conflict arising out of such adornments.

Would you support Celtic if an openly gay player, advocating gay marriage, was on the team?
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T Fearon

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #452 on: October 26, 2016, 07:39:37 PM »
Yes.I am only interested in football ability.

muppet

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #453 on: October 26, 2016, 08:25:32 PM »
Yes.I am only interested in football ability.

Good!

Maybe Ashers should focus on cake making ability?
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seafoid

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #454 on: October 26, 2016, 08:35:00 PM »
Yes.I am only interested in football ability.

Good!

Maybe Ashers should focus on cake making ability?
That analogy doesn't work. the openly gay Celtic player would need to force his views on an Evangelical Rangers player via a kick in the nuts or something in order to get the law involved.
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No wides

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #455 on: December 03, 2016, 11:56:47 AM »
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vegetarian-cafe-boycotts-new-5-note-amid-row-it-contains-animal-fat-a3411406.html

So if I go in to buy something and all I have is the new five pound note, surely this is no different from Ashers refusing to make a gay cake!

J70

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #456 on: December 03, 2016, 01:25:11 PM »
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vegetarian-cafe-boycotts-new-5-note-amid-row-it-contains-animal-fat-a3411406.html

So if I go in to buy something and all I have is the new five pound note, surely this is no different from Ashers refusing to make a gay cake!

You can go out and get some different notes or coins. They're not refusing to provide the specific service you're looking to pay for.

Some businesses operate cash only. Some will accept debit cards, but not credit cards and vice versa.

Is there a law against some shop owner refusing to accept payment for 100 pounds worth of goods in pennies?



No wides

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #457 on: December 03, 2016, 01:29:07 PM »
They are not refusing it because it isn't legal tender, they are refusing it because it goes against their beliefs, why couldn't the offended gay just go to another cake shop?

J70

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #458 on: December 03, 2016, 03:15:32 PM »
The cash-only shopkeeper isn't turning down credit cards because they aren't legal tender either.

If one business has the right to refuse service to a gay person (or Christian or Muslim or black person etc.), then any business has that right. So you could end up with a person with no place to go to get their cake or whatever it is they need.

Look, I'm not saying this vegan place is not over the top. But I don't see what legal rights are being violated.

If there were laws saying any business has to accept all legal tender of the jurisdiction, you might have a case.

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #459 on: December 03, 2016, 04:09:30 PM »
So if the UK issues a five pound note with the image of Stephen Fry would Asher's be ok to refuse it as they don't want to be handling money with gays on it, after all you could get the five pounds changed into coins or go away and get another five pounds?

hardstation

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #460 on: December 03, 2016, 05:02:25 PM »
The cash-only shopkeeper isn't turning down credit cards because they aren't legal tender either.

If one business has the right to refuse service to a gay person (or Christian or Muslim or black person etc.), then any business has that right. So you could end up with a person with no place to go to get their cake or whatever it is they need.

Look, I'm not saying this vegan place is not over the top. But I don't see what legal rights are being violated.

If there were laws saying any business has to accept all legal tender of the jurisdiction, you might have a case.
I don't think Asher's refuse service to gay people. I'm sure a gay person could walk in and purchase a sweet chilli sausage roll in an Asher's bakery. They don't produce goods which carry pro-gay messages, regardless of whether the person requiring the service is gay or not.


J70

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #461 on: December 03, 2016, 05:37:45 PM »
So if the UK issues a five pound note with the image of Stephen Fry would Asher's be ok to refuse it as they don't want to be handling money with gays on it, after all you could get the five pounds changed into coins or go away and get another five pounds?

It would appear so.

Not living in the UK, I stand to be corrected.

J70

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #462 on: December 03, 2016, 09:15:54 PM »
The cash-only shopkeeper isn't turning down credit cards because they aren't legal tender either.

If one business has the right to refuse service to a gay person (or Christian or Muslim or black person etc.), then any business has that right. So you could end up with a person with no place to go to get their cake or whatever it is they need.

Look, I'm not saying this vegan place is not over the top. But I don't see what legal rights are being violated.

If there were laws saying any business has to accept all legal tender of the jurisdiction, you might have a case.
I don't think Asher's refuse service to gay people. I'm sure a gay person could walk in and purchase a sweet chilli sausage roll in an Asher's bakery. They don't produce goods which carry pro-gay messages, regardless of whether the person requiring the service is gay or not.

Fair enough, but their actions were still a form of discrimination not allowed under the law.

Does this cash thing fall into that bracket? I don't see how.

Has it ever come up before? Have any fundamentalist christians ever refused to deal in Charles Darwin 10 pound notes?

seafoid

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #463 on: December 03, 2016, 10:44:48 PM »
Would Ashers produce a cake with a message about climate change on it?
Their brethren evangelical bakers in Missouri probably would not .
Do the Ashers people believe in the Rapture?
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hardstation

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #464 on: December 03, 2016, 11:04:32 PM »
Would Ashers produce a cake with a message about climate change on it?
Their brethren evangelical bakers in Missouri probably would not .
Do the Ashers people believe in the Rapture?
I hear it's the gays they're after.