Author Topic: Ashers cake controversy.  (Read 47056 times)

omaghjoe

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #375 on: October 24, 2016, 05:05:46 PM »

That latter whataboutery would also be clear discrimination and the former whataboutery would probably be considered offensive, but I am not sure of the law up there. But discrimination based on sexual orientation is enshrined in the law.

They did not discriminate on the basis of the person's sexual orientation, but on the offensive political slogan debasing marriage that they put on the cake.

Wasnt their defence based on this moral conscience thing tho? From what I remember they didnt really properly defend the charge directly, which is probably why the judges ruled against them.

The charge should have been for withholding their services for political reasons, which they would have had no defence against.

So in terms of the law the courts made the right decision for the wrong reasons, ....tho Im not sure thats how the law works.

Eejits should have said they were too busy and left it at that... but then they would have missed out on all this publicity.

general_lee

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #376 on: October 24, 2016, 05:42:44 PM »
I can see it's political, or at least socially provocative, but how does it debase marriage?
It doesn't. Believers of the wizard in the sky for some reason in all their insular wisdom think that marriage is a concept is theirs and that the law of the land should reflect their backward beliefs. Get it right up ya ashers

seafoid

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #377 on: October 24, 2016, 05:56:50 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7H0ooV_o8

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Everybody needs a bosom

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T Fearon

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #378 on: October 24, 2016, 08:04:20 PM »
It's all about gay supremacy now.Ridiculous.No protection far less respect for those who hold religious views,in fact they are penalised at every turn

Aaron Boone

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #379 on: October 24, 2016, 08:57:53 PM »
It'll run for another while, Ashers have funding and congregation support to keep appealing. There's  no real winners, lawyers apart.

whitey

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #380 on: October 24, 2016, 09:03:50 PM »
So following this logic should a bakery owned by a Nationslist be legally obliged to bake a cake for an Orange Lodge celebration?




macdanger2

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #381 on: October 24, 2016, 09:05:14 PM »
Wouldn't agree that they discrimated against him on the grounds of his sexual orientation. If a heterosexual person had asked for the same cake, they would presumably also been refused?

Imo, the question really would come down to whether or not they would have refused to make a cake with a message "Oppose Gay Marriage" or not. If they wouldn't have, then they were discriminating

general_lee

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #382 on: October 24, 2016, 09:09:06 PM »
It's all about gay supremacy now.Ridiculous.No protection far less respect for those who hold religious views,in fact they are penalised at every turn
Piss off you moron, so called Christians have ruled the roost in this pathetic excuse of a state since it's creation and their dopey beliefs form the foundations for the backwards laws in NI and you have the nerve to spout shite about gay supremacy.

T Fearon

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #383 on: October 24, 2016, 09:52:14 PM »
Gay supremacists just like Christian fundamentalists impose their will on all and sundry.It has gone beyond equality to supremacy and imposing their views on everyone

muppet

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #384 on: October 24, 2016, 10:06:17 PM »
Wouldn't agree that they discrimated against him on the grounds of his sexual orientation. If a heterosexual person had asked for the same cake, they would presumably also been refused?

Imo, the question really would come down to whether or not they would have refused to make a cake with a message "Oppose Gay Marriage" or not. If they wouldn't have, then they were discriminating

The whole thing was obviously set up by the gay man. But equally, Ashers could have refused to bake the cake on many other grounds that would have not bothered the Equality Laws. Both sides wanted the fight to be on the grounds of sexual orientation and in particular to have their respective views on the matter triump. There is only one winner there.
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T Fearon

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #385 on: October 24, 2016, 10:09:12 PM »
If they had baked the cake and offered it for sale to him without the slogan surely that would have kept them on the right side of the law

muppet

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #386 on: October 24, 2016, 10:12:40 PM »
If they had baked the cake and offered it for sale to him without the slogan surely that would have kept them on the right side of the law

As OmaghJoe said above, they could have said they were busy. They could have done what many tradesmen the world over do every day and 'forgot'. They could have got the message wring and 'accidentally' wrote something else.

It looks to me that Ashers wanted the fight, and still want it.
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thejuice

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #387 on: October 24, 2016, 10:43:28 PM »
Obviously its a complicated issue and could set some difficult precedents but ultimately I think the cake shop owner ought to have their religious views respected even if I don't personally agree with them. Plenty of other religious views are accommodated by businesses across Europe despite the questionable moral ethics of some of their practices. In this instance this is the least incendiary case I can think of and yet look at the storm its creating, and this families livelihood could be in jeopardy over it.

I've spoken to some gay lads who've told me they find it all embarrassing. In their words "Its just a bloody cake, can't they just go somewhere else, there is plenty of other places". But then they weren't that keen on gay marriage or modern gay activism in general.
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foxcommander

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #388 on: October 24, 2016, 10:48:06 PM »
They could have got the message wring and 'accidentally' wrote something else.

It's not like you to get a message wring
Back to the dictionary corner with you  :)
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omaghjoe

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Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« Reply #389 on: October 24, 2016, 11:45:44 PM »
Wouldn't agree that they discrimated against him on the grounds of his sexual orientation. If a heterosexual person had asked for the same cake, they would presumably also been refused?

Imo, the question really would come down to whether or not they would have refused to make a cake with a message "Oppose Gay Marriage" or not. If they wouldn't have, then they were discriminating

The whole thing was obviously set up by the gay man. But equally, Ashers could have refused to bake the cake on many other grounds that would have not bothered the Equality Laws. Both sides wanted the fight to be on the grounds of sexual orientation and in particular to have their respective views on the matter triump. There is only one winner there.

I think you just about nailed it Muppet....for a change ;P

Tho TBF I dont think that yer man did set it up intentionally, however when presented with the opportunity he gladly used it to wield his activism axe. And Ashers likewise obviously, you only have to look at the way they defended it as moral conscience instead of with the actual law, which they could have.

Its working a treat all around, somebody said no ones a winner...actually they are all winners
Ashers...publicity, publicity support for their stance = increased revenue
Lee....raised profile as an activist and his cause gets more publicity

Is Gay Supremacy the next Bourne film? as in the Bourne Gay Supremacy?