Author Topic: Derry Club football and Hurling  (Read 8426360 times)

king of leon

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57465 on: May 29, 2017, 11:43:20 AM »
Have to say I feel a bit for Barton there, he obviously cares a great deal for Derry football and his heart seems to be in the right place.

From speaking to guys who have trained under him with various clubs, the general consensus is that he has a good way with the players and training sessions were always decent.

Obviously there is something not right within the setup currently but I feel the players need to take some responsibility too. They are light years behind the likes of Tyrone when it comes to conditioning and fitness. Like men against boys. It's is going to take a number of years and a proper S&C program to bear fruit.
Unfortunately I don't think the players at the moment are prepared to buy into this and don't have the patience/modesty to sit on the bench for a year or two and learn the ropes.
They dont have the self pride or passion to wear the jersey at the moment, will new management change this??? Unlikely I would have said!!


toby47

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57466 on: May 29, 2017, 12:46:29 PM »
Game went exactly as expected yesterday.

Derry simply not good enough to beat Tyrone yesterday. No individual mistake from managers, players, backroom team or referee yesterday resulted in that defeat. Tyrone's best 15 players are better than Derry's best 15 players and Tyrone sub bench is better than Derry's bench. Tyrone are further down the line in terms of S&C. Tyrone are further down the line in perfecting a game plan.

Damien McElraine doing a great job with the minors, one games away from 3 Ulster finals in a row and the challenge is to try get even two out of every one of those teams through to be good senior players. Niall Keenan showed us yesterday this is doable, Ben Mckinless, Danny Tallon, Shane McGuigan and Michael McEvoy might be able to follow suite over the few years. I would try and keep him In this role for another couple of years and try get and u21 management who will work closely with McErlaine to try get a conveyer belt going. As well as a serious S&C coach working with all development squads.

Derry need to try and bleed youth through for the next few years. Divison 3 football next year - so there isn't the same chance of the odd stuffing as there is in division 1 or 2. Next year is the right chance to do it. We won't challenge for the next couple of years but come 3 or 4 years time Derry have the opportunity to be in a far better place than they currently are. a few years back we went 3 or 4 years without winning a minor championship match, the results are starting to show. Now that our last 2 or 3 minor squads have done well, we should try and convert this to senior success.

Boys knocking round Derry set ups for years have a lot to answer too. McIvor is replaced after a bad spell as manager and then is given a role to oversee all football in Derry? Chris Collins/Ben McGuckin has been involved in many development and minor squads (and failed - mostly during the 3-4 year spell previously mentioned) and is up doing video analysis etc for the senior panel. Regardless of what manager is appointed after Barton are these boys going to be involved again because Derry pay there wages or were they selected by Barton and a new man can bring in his own team?

The Clones 500

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57467 on: May 29, 2017, 01:13:14 PM »
A lot of talk about S&C.. Danny Tallon could be have be swapped for the worlds strongest man yesterday with arms like tree trunks the fact is he wasn't in the game due to the tactics of 13 men behind a ball that never kick early fast ball in Paddy Bradley in his prime or Gooch Cooper up on his own yesterday with no support wouldn't have got a sniff yesterday. Niall Laughlin, Lynn, Heavron, Two McKaigue's, Keenan, Rodgers, McAtamney, McFaul are as fit and strong as any men in the country who can run all day.
c'mon Derry ya boys ya!

JoG2

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57468 on: May 29, 2017, 01:41:50 PM »
McGuckin is it great condition? Lynch is in good condition? Tallon is up to the physical challenges at this level?  Need we mention Nevin? But you have seen the stats, share them with the board.

My ma told me not to share info with bin lids. McGuckin is about 90% there, has really bought into the S & C this past 12 months. Nevin yes, Tallon yes, Lynch is running about 40%. Yourself and few others are still hanging onto the s & c excuse. As a collective, the Derry squad are in superb physical  shape, way ahead of where they were last year (big Lynch being the exception)

Wildweasel74

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57469 on: May 29, 2017, 01:58:02 PM »
In that radio interview did he take any responsibility for that mess yesterday, he seems to blame anyone but himself, players, brolly, no money, FS,

I heard some of his managed skills with 1or 2 players and i wouldn't have went back myself. Begrudgers, expectations, 3 years ago we were in Division1 and he took them to division 3, say no more. Should been sacked after some of the tankings in the league as yesterday`s result and score line was expected

Is that the best panel of players in Derry, No!
why is a lad who at 18 looked like one of the best up and coming players in the country fallen away,
why has some many left
why is the formation all over the place with constant changing and men playing all over the place.
How many games has McFaul and McGuckin play midfield previously, same with Danny at 11 and Connor at 6, is loughlin a wing forward or corner, team line up is all over the place.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 02:06:32 PM by Wildweasel74 »

theticklemister

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57470 on: May 29, 2017, 02:18:59 PM »
In that radio interview did he take any responsibility for that mess yesterday, he seems to blame anyone but himself, players, brolly, no money, FS,

I heard some of his managed skills with 1or 2 players and i wouldn't have went back myself. Begrudgers, expectations, 3 years ago we were in Division1 and he took them to division 3, say no more. Should been sacked after some of the tankings in the league as yesterday`s result and score line was expected

Is that the best panel of players in Derry, No!
why is a lad who at 18 looked like one of the best up and coming players in the country fallen away,
why has some many left
why is the formation all over the place with constant changing and men playing all over the place.
How many games has McFaul and McGuckin play midfield previously, same with Danny at 11 and Connor at 6, is loughlin a wing forward or corner, team line up is all over the place.

Not a question mark to be seen.

Mikhailov

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57471 on: May 29, 2017, 02:29:19 PM »
McGuckin is it great condition? Lynch is in good condition? Tallon is up to the physical challenges at this level?  Need we mention Nevin? But you have seen the stats, share them with the board.

My ma told me not to share info with bin lids. McGuckin is about 90% there, has really bought into the S & C this past 12 months. Nevin yes, Tallon yes, Lynch is running about 40%. Yourself and few others are still hanging onto the s & c excuse. As a collective, the Derry squad are in superb physical  shape, way ahead of where they were last year (big Lynch being the exception)

this past 12 months - sure even the average club footballer wouldn't expect to get on his club team if he was only doing S&C for the last 12 months.

Uncle Phil

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57472 on: May 29, 2017, 03:11:31 PM »
Let's not kid ourselves here fellas. S&C is not even close to being the issue. Derry were beat by a more talented set of players, managed by a better manager, backed by a more organised, and better resourced, County Board. It's hard to know where to start, but we fall behind most counties in Ulster in these 3 areas. One props the other up, and until changes are made in all three areas, all will suffer. 

Mountain Gael

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57473 on: May 29, 2017, 03:47:05 PM »
First of all congratulations to a fantastic minor team and great credit must go to Damian McErlain as manager on a wonderful second half performance from his panel as the lads who came on pushed us over the line. The senior game we were well in it with 20 minutes to go but poor decision making and poor fitness levels found us out. Tyrones fitness levels are excellent and as a county we need to learn from them and get the right people in place to make sure we can reach that level and better,completely run over and our lads were out on their feet but showed heart in the latter stages of the first half and the first 15 minutes in second half but had missed enough to be in front at that stage.The last 15 minutes was all tyrone and by the final whistle we were well battered.Good luck to the minors in the rest of the championship. when does the seniors play in the back door

screenexile

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57474 on: May 29, 2017, 04:50:15 PM »
Fitness and S&C is not even close to being the issue!!! Tactical ineptitude and a lack of quality players is the issue if we're going to discuss what we've known for the last 2/3 years let's at least talk about the relevant points.

1. Our management team are not up to it tactically at this level
2. The general apathy throughout the County towards the County team

Let's be honest lads there's plenty of us are guilty of the latter. What we need is a transformative figure to grab the whole thing by the scruff of the neck and bring it along with him. Unfortunately those kinds of characters are few and far between and are already plying their trade at the top, I'm thinking Jim McGuinness/Malachy O'Rourke/Mickey Harte.

If we don't break the door down to get Malachy O'Rourke in next year then blame lies squarely at the County Boards door because as far as I can see he's the only candidate who could do the job we need and we would have the possibility of getting.

lenny

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57475 on: May 29, 2017, 05:21:53 PM »
Fitness and S&C is not even close to being the issue!!! Tactical ineptitude and a lack of quality players is the issue if we're going to discuss what we've known for the last 2/3 years let's at least talk about the relevant points.

1. Our management team are not up to it tactically at this level
2. The general apathy throughout the County towards the County team

Let's be honest lads there's plenty of us are guilty of the latter. What we need is a transformative figure to grab the whole thing by the scruff of the neck and bring it along with him. Unfortunately those kinds of characters are few and far between and are already plying their trade at the top, I'm thinking Jim McGuinness/Malachy O'Rourke/Mickey Harte.

If we don't break the door down to get Malachy O'Rourke in next year then blame lies squarely at the County Boards door because as far as I can see he's the only candidate who could do the job we need and we would have the possibility of getting.

I'd be surprised if we got him but I think he would take us back to a very competitive level. We would be challenging for Ulster at least.

uimhr ocht

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57476 on: May 29, 2017, 05:26:29 PM »
The county board need to show a bit of ambition and go and persuade a top experienced county manager like Malachi O ROurke,the current set up isn't working and I'm sure someone could put up Barton's record since he took over and the stats don't lie.players who opted out this year would be back  supporters would be more optimistic,a clean slate it would bring a new approach to the county again.

restorepride

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57477 on: May 29, 2017, 06:25:03 PM »
McGuckin is it great condition? Lynch is in good condition? Tallon is up to the physical challenges at this level?  Need we mention Nevin? But you have seen the stats, share them with the board.

My ma told me not to share info with bin lids. McGuckin is about 90% there, has really bought into the S & C this past 12 months. Nevin yes, Tallon yes, Lynch is running about 40%. Yourself and few others are still hanging onto the s & c excuse. As a collective, the Derry squad are in superb physical  shape, way ahead of where they were last year (big Lynch being the exception)

As I thought, exposed to the board as an another stats bluffer. The real stats were on the scoreboard at the end of another hammering yesterday.

JoG2

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57478 on: May 29, 2017, 07:15:45 PM »
McGuckin is it great condition? Lynch is in good condition? Tallon is up to the physical challenges at this level?  Need we mention Nevin? But you have seen the stats, share them with the board.

My ma told me not to share info with bin lids. McGuckin is about 90% there, has really bought into the S & C this past 12 months. Nevin yes, Tallon yes, Lynch is running about 40%. Yourself and few others are still hanging onto the s & c excuse. As a collective, the Derry squad are in superb physical  shape, way ahead of where they were last year (big Lynch being the exception)

As I thought, exposed to the board as an another stats bluffer. The real stats were on the scoreboard at the end of another hammering yesterday.

Look, the lazy explanation for yesterday's defeat was fitness. I'll say it again, it was not fitness. Have you ever coached or managed a man's team? Fitness is 1 element. We weren't any less fit than Tyrone. System wise we're miles behind Tyrone though.  They had an abundance of players ahead of the ball yesterday and break in swarms (this is rotated to give men a breather) hence they were able to work a free man in the scoring zone manned by our blanket defence.
Application of the swarm defence, counter attack. Again, Tyrone are years ahead of us in this regard.
Footballing ability: we've got some superb footballers, again Tyrone are ahead there as they have a whole heap of superb footballers.
Then you have elements that come from within each player. Heart, desire, courage and pride in the shirt / their own personal performance etc..
Match ups, we matched up well, but again Harte pulled the wool over Barton's eye's. Donnelly was a sacrificial lamb as took McKaigue on a merry dance around every blade of grass on CP. In the corners, along the sideline ie places McKaigue couldn't cause any damage in offensive terms.
Tyrone are also light years ahead of cuteness and engineering frees, playing the referee. We're probably too nice and too honest in that regard.
Again,  with squad strength and depth and experience there is no comparison between the two teams.
You see, there were / are many factors, but you work away and blame fitness levels and moan at a man who is telling you for a fact that Derry's fitness levels are excellent, and are not to blame for yesterday's heavy defeat

Derry Optimist

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #57479 on: May 29, 2017, 08:50:08 PM »
Most posters seem to agree that  the absence of a proper defensive system, no consistent, speedy direct counter attacking formation and the lack of  management having a greater tactical awareness, are key elements in the current poor displays by the Derry Senior football team for the last two years.If these were the only problems then perhaps a revamped current team management or the apparently  preferred option of bringing in a high profile respected and innovative outside manager would cure all our existing problems.

If this occurred there should undoubtedly be some improvement in team performances but I would suggest that two other issues need to be urgently addressed.To keep up with proper team preparation more finance would be required and most importantly  at least fourteen  of the currently unavailable players ( I know some of them are injured and some have. genuine reasons for not participating this year) would need to commit themselves fully for next year.

The Management team's  biggest task for 2018 will be to persuade talented players like Garth McKinless, Dermot McBride,Kevin Johnston,Liam McGoldrick,Sean Leo McGoldrick,Padraig Cassidy,Christopher Bradley, Emmett Bradley,Niall Holly,Mark Craig,Thomas Mallon,Niall Toner,Daniel McKinless and the very skilful Terence O'Brien  to join the Derry panel for 2018.That is a huge ask but a very necessary one I feel.Any county which is serious about our county being really competitive must have the best players at its disposal. Every team,every management and every supporter needs and deserves this to happen.It will be the challenging  but  essential function of the County Board to see that it does.