Author Topic: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful  (Read 27601 times)

Lady GAA GAA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
    • View Profile
Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« on: June 10, 2010, 11:36:14 PM »



Quote
The long-awaited report into the Bloody Sunday massacre will conclude that a number of the fatal shootings of civilians by British soldiers were unlawful killings, the Guardian has learned.

Lord Saville's 12-year inquiry into the deaths, the longest public inquiry in British legal history, will conclude with a report published next Tuesday, putting severe pressure on the Public Prosecution Service in Northern Ireland to prosecute soldiers.

Lord Trimble, the former leader of the Ulster Unionists and one of the architects of the Good Friday agreement, revealed to the Guardian that when Tony Blair agreed to the inquiry in 1998, he warned the then prime minister that any conclusion that departed "one millimetre" from the earlier 1972 Widgery report into the killings would lead to "soldiers in the dock".

One unionist MP who did not wish to be named described the conclusion of unlawful killings as a "hand-grenade with the pin pulled out that is about to be tossed into the lap of the PPS" in Northern Ireland.

Thirteen unarmed civilians, all of them male, were shot dead at a civil rights march in the Bogside area of Derry in January 1972. A 14th man died of his wounds several months later.

The killings electrified nationalist protests against British rule in Northern Ireland and Bloody Sunday became a critical moment in the history of the Troubles, dramatically boosting the popularity of the Provisional IRA in the province and, according to many people, acting as a catalyst for much of the violence that followed.

The results of Saville's hearing will be released to the public at 3.30pm on Tuesday when David Cameron announces its publication to the House of Commons.

Up to 10,000 people are expected to march around lunchtime that day into Guildhall Square in Derry, where they will watch live reports about the inquiry's conclusions on giant television screens. They will trace the same route that the civil rights marchers had attempted to take on Bloody Sunday, which the Stormont government, dominated in 1972 by unionists, had banned.

Families of those killed in the massacre 38 years ago have focused on a number of soldiers who were identified and gave evidence during the 12 year old tribunal. These include "Soldier F" who, according to the relatives of the Bloody Sunday dead, shot four to six of the victims. Told during the inquiry that his evidence amounted to perjury, he did not demur.

Though witnesses were protected from self-incrimination, an exception was made for perjury. And government law officers made it clear that criminal prosecution against an individual was not ruled out in the light of any evidence that emerged from other witnesses or from documents. Sources familiar with the inquiry said yesterday that Saville may not explicitly recommend criminal prosecutions and much will depend on his message, whether direct or indirect, to the PPS.

The PPS, headed by Sir Alasdair Fraser, will make the decision on prosecutions because the killings occurred in its jurisdiction, rather than the Crown Prosecution Service in London. Fraser will have to take into account the public interest in a prosecution, and the likelihood of securing a conviction.

Among survivors who were shot on the day and the families of the dead, there are many demanding that a number of British paratroopers should be prosecuted through the courts.

They could initiate a private prosecution and sue for compensation in a civil court.

Trimble, a Nobel peace prize winner, said that during the all-party talks of late 1997 and early 1998 he told Blair that a new inquiry would end up with soldiers being dragged through the courts.

He described the establishment of the tribunal during the peace talks as a "sideline deal independent from the Belfast agreement".

On his warning to Blair, Trimble said: "I just reminded him that the Widgery report of 1972 concluded that the troops' behaviour, to quote from the report, 'bordered on the reckless'.

"Then I told the prime minister that if you moved from one millimetre from the that conclusion you were into the area of manslaughter, if not murder," he said.

"I pointed out to Blair that we would see soldiers in the dock. I told him that at the time of the talks leading to the Belfast agreement," Trimble said.

Blair and the then Northern Ireland secretary, Mo Mowlam, announced the establishment of the Saville inquiry on 30 January 1998 the 26th anniversary of the shootings, citing "compelling new evidence".

At the time Blair and Mowlam, who has since died, were locked in the intensive negotiations between unionists and nationalist that ultimately led to the Good Friday agreement of 1998.

However, Trimble said that the inquiry was "not in any way part of the agreement".

He added: "At the time of the talks the parties, it seemed to me, did not want to be obsessing on the past. The problem was that Blair, for reasons that I can't understand, gave in to pressure for a selective inquiry."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/10/bloody-sunday-inquiry-northern-ireland

At long last. Can't see any prosecutions, or meaningful ones coming out of this though. How will the families etc. react to this? Will they be content or see it as not enough?


Capt Pat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 11:55:47 PM »
It only took 40 years to get nowhere. Still waiting for prosecutions. There will be anger and controversy over which killings were unlawful and which killings were lawful.

orangeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19378
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 12:01:32 AM »
No real news here.


Obviously not all questions will have been satisfactorily answered.

Orior

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10071
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 12:05:11 AM »
I'm sure Gregory Campbell will be able to put some spin on this, praising the british and reminding us that protestants suffered more.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

tyssam5

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1921
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 12:39:25 AM »
No real news here.


Obviously not all questions will have been satisfactorily answered.

Any of the soldier's on the ground from the inquiry will never see 'the dock', because if they did you can be sure that their stories would change and the officers that gave the orders would get implicated, and so on to the politicians etc.

Bud Wiser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2113
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2010, 08:59:16 AM »
The b*****ds that done the shooting on Bloody Sunday are very easily identified - if the British wanted to do so. Last week we had endless ceremonies for Dunkirk and they had no bother finding matching boats and veterans who remembered exactly where they were on the 4th June 1940, but then, knowing where you were to line up to receive gallantry medals was never a problem with the brits as opposed to lining up to face mass murder charges. Last week also saw a ceremony to put names of dead soldiers killed in Afganistan on a wall of remembrance, which I have no problem with (we should have one in O'connel Street instead of a spire) but why did they not give coverage to the soldiers who on the same week were charged with the murders/execution of an entire innocent Afgan family. The level of debate on RTE or the failure of the government to even make a statement about the current report while we have people marching on the Israeli Embassy instead of the British one is two examples of why this report is too little and far too late.

There should be a national rememberance day for the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday and the government should announce that intention and demand that those involved in the Bogside massacre of 27 people including children are brought to justice before that time.
" Laois ? You can't drink pints of Guinness and talk sh*te in a pub, and play football the next day"

NAG1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4322
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2010, 09:36:18 AM »
This whole inquiry has completely sickened my happiness. Yes the people who were shot deserve justice and the British government need to admit that it was an attrocity but the whole world already know this. I am not for one second deminishing that.

Yet through this inquest all we have done is lined the pockets of already extremely wealthy Barristers and QC's, these are men who have boasted that after this they will never need to work again.

My point is the summation of this inquiry will reveal what we all already knew, so why did it take 800m to get there, surely this money would have been better spent regenerating the City of Derry gaining employment for its people and making it a better place to live for all. Surely this would have been a better legacy than a document that will still be full of holes anyway.


Hereiam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1851
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 09:39:02 AM »
Well said Bud wiser. Its just typical of the Irish to walked over by other countries. This report will achieve nothing.

balladmaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
  • Irish To The Core!
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 11:03:07 AM »
Quote
This whole inquiry has completely sickened my happiness. Yes the people who were shot deserve justice and the British government need to admit that it was an attrocity but the whole world already know this. I am not for one second deminishing that.

Yet through this inquest all we have done is lined the pockets of already extremely wealthy Barristers and QC's, these are men who have boasted that after this they will never need to work again.

My point is the summation of this inquiry will reveal what we all already knew, so why did it take 800m to get there, surely this money would have been better spent regenerating the City of Derry gaining employment for its people and making it a better place to live for all. Surely this would have been a better legacy than a document that will still be full of holes anyway.


Lay the blame for the inquiry at the door of 10 Downing Street....if the Brits had owned up in the first place 38 years ago, the 800M would have been saved and those responsible for the killings would have had their time served a long time ago.

Well said Bud Wiser.

Shamrock Shore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5187
  • We are proud to be Larries
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 11:21:59 AM »
I must say Bud has said exactly how I feel but could never expressed it as well as he has done.

Buy that man a pint.

norabeag

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 11:29:47 AM »
I must say Bud has said exactly how I feel but could never expressed it as well as he has done.

Buy that man a pint.
Have to agree totally.

A half 'un as well

magpie seanie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12381
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 12:30:27 PM »
How much money has been spent on lawyers and expenses and God knows what to come up with a clonclusion that even the biggest dope would have had hours after this outrage? We live in a seriously fucked up world.

Bud is right of course. I often wonder is there any point in us being an independent nation. We allow everything and stand for nothing.

Declan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 01:33:02 PM »
Agree 100% Bud. Well said

orangeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19378
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 04:10:01 PM »
Tories showing their true colours early on.


Saville Inquiry an 'expensive disaster'
Sunday, 13 June 2010 15:04
British Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke has said the inquiry into the Bloody Sunday killings has been a 'disaster in terms of time and expense'.

The Saville Report, which has cost more than 190m, will be published on Tuesday, more than 12 years after the inquiry was opened.

Mr Clarke said the inquiry had got 'ludicrously out of hand' and he was 'anxiously considering' how other inquiries should be held in the future.

AdvertisementThe inquiry looked into the events on 30 January 1970 when British soldiers opened fire on a civil rights march, killing 13 people.

muppet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25089
    • View Profile
Re: Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 04:13:03 PM »
Tories showing their true colours early on.


Saville Inquiry an 'expensive disaster'
Sunday, 13 June 2010 15:04
British Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke has said the inquiry into the Bloody Sunday killings has been a 'disaster in terms of time and expense'.

The Saville Report, which has cost more than 190m, will be published on Tuesday, more than 12 years after the inquiry was opened.

Mr Clarke said the inquiry had got 'ludicrously out of hand' and he was 'anxiously considering' how other inquiries should be held in the future.

AdvertisementThe inquiry looked into the events on 30 January 1970 when British soldiers opened fire on a civil rights march, killing 13 people.

Yes Ken the investigation was an expensive disaster, no comment on the killings though?
MWWSI 2017