Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 459095 times)

charlieTully

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5385 on: January 09, 2019, 07:44:55 AM »
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.

naka

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5386 on: January 09, 2019, 08:08:02 AM »
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here’s hoping 🤞

Itchy

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5387 on: January 09, 2019, 08:10:50 AM »
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here’s hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.

trueblue1234

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5388 on: January 09, 2019, 10:06:36 AM »
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that’s a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don’t care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don’t support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It’s a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they’ll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We’re past that now lads get the Government up and running and people’s lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won’t want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn’t have us in this position. He’s such a loss for the North we’re only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.   
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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5389 on: January 09, 2019, 10:49:41 AM »
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that’s a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don’t care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don’t support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It’s a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they’ll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We’re past that now lads get the Government up and running and people’s lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won’t want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn’t have us in this position. He’s such a loss for the North we’re only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.

naka

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5390 on: January 09, 2019, 10:59:31 AM »
Jaysus the stoops are taking the FF takeover very bad.
The stoops are dying , if FF give some leadership and structure then they will start to get some support from the disillusioned  nationalist masses .
Here’s hoping 🤞

The only thing FF will teach them is corruption and how to f**k up a country. If you are looking to those w**kers for help god help you. How anyone in this country could vote for them after what they did is beyond me.
I take it you don't live in the north
we have no government
everything is a carve up between dup/sinn fein,
apart from sound bites regarding irish language etc
what are they actively doing re brexit,regarding job losses, education, health etc
ff might just bring sinn fein a dose of reality that they and the dup must start acting like grown ups and start justifying their salaries

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5391 on: January 09, 2019, 11:04:57 AM »
 https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/merger-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-is-a-no-brainer-for-sdlp-1.3750234
Merger with Fianna Fáil is a no-brainer for SDLP

Remoteness from positions of power is the antithesis of party politics

Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 00:30

Denis Bradley
 
There were two things that Derry, the home and the heart of John Hume, never thought would happen. The first was Brexit. The second was that Sinn Féin would win the Foyle Westminster seat. Foyle was Hume’s and his protégé Durkan’s seat. Both have now happened and together they explain why the SDLP is deep in discussion with Fianna Fáil about a possible partnership.

Reading the signs of the times is healthy for individuals and essential for organisations. The post-peace status and future of the SDLP is not a new discussion. It was being debated in Derry 40 years ago. Would it, should it, could it transpose itself after its primary mission of peace was achieved? That debate about how broad a political church it was and whether it could morph into a conventional political party was often discussed but never fully resolved.

“The big beasts of Hume and Mallon are no longer there but the new young Turks have been reared at the same coalface

When, in recent times, the seminal achievement of the SDLP, the Belfast Agreement, went through a more negative phase resulting in the suspension of the institutions, politics degenerated into an arm wrestle between unionism and republicanism. Voters bemoaned the loss of a more sophisticated and generous politics but in the arm wrestle it was more important to make sure that the other side didn’t win and for a good few years now it was Sinn Féin’s arm that was on the table.

Brexit whirlwind

Then Brexit came. The slow, often frustrating pace of politics in the North that had thankfully replaced the violence was swept into the whirlwind of Brexit. The constitutional position was thrown into the centre of politics, in Ireland, in Europe and, most importantly, in Britain. The party that had argued most cogently for being a part of Europe, that had a small but articulate voice in Westminster and had been among the main architects of Anglo-Irish policies, was now without presence or influence at any of these seats of power. To be distanced or adrift from the positions of power is the antithesis of party politics. To be in that position when a substantial portion of your manifesto is at the cutting edge of change is a humiliation.


Advertisement


Related SDLP partnership talks with Fianna Fáil nearing an end 
The Irish Times view on the FF/SDLP merger: A challenging political union 
Fianna Fáil and SDLP people feel now is the time to move on merger 
Talks are ongoing between SDLP leader Colum Eastwood, above, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin and senior officials. File photograph: Niall Carson/PA Micheal Martin (left) and Colum Eastwood: "There are suggestions that the SDLP, being the smaller entity, organisationally weak and financially poor, has little to offer to Fianna Fáil. This ignores the reality that the Border and the relationship between the North and the Republic are going to dominate politics on this island for the foreseeable future."  File photograph: Niall Carson/PA   
The new, young leadership of the SDLP had a choice: allow the party to continue a slow and painful decline into irrelevance or resurrect an old idea of positioning itself in the mainstream of all-Ireland politics. That argument had merit in the past but in the slipstream of Brexit it was a no-brainer. For the foreseeable future all politics will be obsessed and dominated by the economic and constitutional consequences of Brexit. The Irish border is already a central cog in the debate about when and how Brexit will manifest itself on the ground. The issue of a border poll, how and when it should be triggered, will keep imposing itself. The changing demographics in Northern Ireland, nationalism and unionism moving out of minority and majority status to face each other on an equal numerical basis, will create its own dynamics and opportunities.

There are suggestions that the SDLP, being the smaller entity, organisationally weak and financially poor, has little to offer to Fianna Fáil. This ignores the reality that the Border and the relationship between the North and the Republic are going to dominate politics on this island for the foreseeable future. Those issues are bread and butter to the SDLP. There is a residue of memory, insight and experience within that party that can be acquired only at the coalface. The big beasts of Hume and Mallon are no longer there but the new young Turks have been reared at the same coalface and are already portraying their own charisma and insights.

Paradoxes

Northerners are often described as the more direct of the Irish, calling a spade a spade rather than an agricultural instrument but there are subtleties and paradoxes in Northern life that sometimes elude their brethren in the Republic.

“Fianna Fáil will have the advantage of being a co-guarantor which has an actual presence and membership in the North

At this year’s party conference the present leader, Colum Eastwood, said: “The Ireland that Hume imagined has come to pass, an Ireland at peace with itself and free to decide its own destiny. The next phase of politics will be centred on the Ireland we now choose to build, having been gifted that powerful inheritance. It will be driven by an understanding that a fractured Ireland is always an Ireland in waiting. In terms of realignment, the future this party collectively decides will be driven by that primary purpose.”
Fianna Fáil leader Micheal Martin. Photograph: Brenda Fitzsimons Fianna Fáil leader Micheal Martin. Photograph: Brenda Fitzsimons   
That short extract succinctly captures what is in this realignment for Fianna Fáil. When you see yourself as the movement with primary responsibility for the unification of the lands and the peoples of Ireland, a proper and official presence in the North will bring great joy and comfort to the cumainn throughout the length and breath of Ireland. There will be a quiet pride in the Fianna Fáil heartlands. It also puts the party on a par with Sinn Féin, whose all-Ireland credentials have been an irritant and modest embarrassment to the elder republican party. In crucial and sensitive discussions about future relationships on this island, as a party in government or even in a confidence-and-supply relationship with Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil will have the advantage of being a co-guarantor which has an actual presence and membership in the North.
Even 40 years ago it was known that such a realignment would result in tensions and disappointment among a portion of the SDLP. The numbers and the depth of the disappointment has been dissipated by a series of electoral results. The greater number know that the post-Brexit map has not been drawn yet but that this coming together of the SDLP and Fianna Fáil is an important element in the configuration of this map.

Denis Bradley is a journalist and a former vice-chairman of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:07:17 AM by seafoid »
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Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5392 on: January 09, 2019, 11:40:13 AM »
Apart from being someones for "our " side to vote for in Elections is there any further point to either SF (6 Cos) or SDLP existing at all?
Are they both marking time till there's a "Border Poll" and see where that takes everything?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5393 on: January 09, 2019, 11:40:47 AM »
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.

Its partly the abortion thing with me especially the 12 weeks and their position on the conscience vote. But they are trying to be all things to all people on so many issues.

SF jump on the populist bandwagon. Not everyone is on the same bandwagon with all issues, therefore they’re losing voters on each issue. That image of O’Neill and McDonald celebrating the abortion result was truly sickening.

I certainly won’t be voting them again.
Sickening? why? Women celebrate the right to choose in circumstances we as men can not experience or relate to, what is sickening is all this sanctimonious bullshit about murder and both lives matter.

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5394 on: January 09, 2019, 11:48:04 AM »
Their politicans seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves and it has been increasingly evident since MON became the northern leader. First it was the gay marraige thing and now its aboprtion.

It's not unusual for a party to keep members in line with whip for issues.

As for thinking for themselves I thought the evidence at the RHI inquiry was very damning.  The evidence of Martin O'Muilleoir was shocking but overshadowed by the DUP shenagins.  It appeared that the most mundane of decisions were passed to third parties for sing-off.

It's a measure of how dysfunctional Northern politics has become that this hardly garnered any attention.

/Jim.
None of the parties covered themselves in glory regarding RHI and it's oversight, it's just that the DUP were embroiled in the scheme.

Sheugh Water

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5395 on: January 09, 2019, 11:55:51 AM »
People could just not vote, but unless Toibin gets going in a lot of constituencies there is no other candidate that is not promoting abortion.

Its partly the abortion thing with me especially the 12 weeks and their position on the conscience vote. But they are trying to be all things to all people on so many issues.

SF jump on the populist bandwagon. Not everyone is on the same bandwagon with all issues, therefore they’re losing voters on each issue. That image of O’Neill and McDonald celebrating the abortion result was truly sickening.

I certainly won’t be voting them again.
Sickening? why? Women celebrate the right to choose in circumstances we as men can not experience or relate to, what is sickening is all this sanctimonious bullshit about murder and both lives matter.

on such a sensitive issue more humility was required. It was not a football result which had just been announced and that is how it looked.

SF are goosed.

Kickham csc

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5396 on: January 09, 2019, 11:56:20 AM »
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that’s a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don’t care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don’t support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It’s a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they’ll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We’re past that now lads get the Government up and running and people’s lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won’t want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn’t have us in this position. He’s such a loss for the North we’re only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

Got to agree with this statement. Sinn Fein may be bad, but they tried to work with the DUP, and they were increasingly becoming more  and more hardlined (removal of the Irish grants etc)

If Sinn Fein hold out, and the DUP finally realise that it's for the best for the country to compromise on identity and equality issues, then the Stormont shutdown will be worth it.

You can't have a single party that can veto gay rights, passing laws that are suppressed due to religious ideology, and are blazingly and openly corrupt etc. A stand had to be made at some time.

In regards to Sinn Fein's absence in Westminster. They have been active in the EU and Irish Parliament on the Brexit issue. This is in alignment with their stated policy (not taking Westminster seats).

So they exercising their mandate.

To be honest, the strategy may be right, they had more opportunity to influence the Irish and EU parliaments than they ever had to do in Westminster over the long term. The DUP are currently in a bind, they supported the Brexit vote that has lead them to a position where they are supporting an increasingly unpopular government that has limited options in regards to Brexit implementation. Via their actions have put a strain on the UK, and are in a position where their actions can be directly linked to the severely weakening of the UK in regards to economic power and constitutional unity of the UK.

I see sinn Fein being in a win-win position here.

If the current proposal remains, Ireland will start being treated as a single geographical unit, which is a major step in unifying the nation.

If a no brexit deal is reached, then the North would potentially be better off with the republic.

Win-Win

trueblue1234

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5397 on: January 09, 2019, 12:41:33 PM »
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that’s a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don’t care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don’t support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It’s a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they’ll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We’re past that now lads get the Government up and running and people’s lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won’t want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn’t have us in this position. He’s such a loss for the North we’re only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
So you're saying SF are bad because they are letting the DUP away with it, Screenexcile is saying they should forget about things and try and make it work with the DUP and getting Stormont up and running again. So whichever way they decide to go they are going to get slated. For what it's worth, I think they made the correct decision walking away. They DUP needed to learn that they didn't have sole control of NI. It had been building and hopefully will make the DUP realise in the Long run that they need to engage better and not see any reference to Irish culture as a negative. 
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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5398 on: January 09, 2019, 01:29:51 PM »
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that’s a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don’t care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don’t support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It’s a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they’ll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We’re past that now lads get the Government up and running and people’s lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won’t want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn’t have us in this position. He’s such a loss for the North we’re only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
So you're saying SF are bad because they are letting the DUP away with it, Screenexcile is saying they should forget about things and try and make it work with the DUP and getting Stormont up and running again. So whichever way they decide to go they are going to get slated. For what it's worth, I think they made the correct decision walking away. They DUP needed to learn that they didn't have sole control of NI. It had been building and hopefully will make the DUP realise in the Long run that they need to engage better and not see any reference to Irish culture as a negative.

They should get Stormont up and running again. And while they're at it they should DO THEIR f**king JOBS and run the executive like an office of government rather than a vehicle for corruption.

trueblue1234

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5399 on: January 09, 2019, 01:46:38 PM »
As a northern nationalist who fully supports a united Ireland, gay marriage, abortion rights and an Irish language act who do you suggest I vote for? The shinners, for all their faults, are the only show in town.

Jaysus, that’s a depressing thought.

A United ireland, gay marriage, ILA, abortion - SF push those because they know DUP are against all. I honestly think SF don’t care about GM/ILA/abortion, they just want to try to show DUP as these Neanderthals because they don’t support them. SF need To feed off the DUP for their own survival and to remain relevant. And vice versa.

SF have done f**k all. But they divert attention from that by rubbing the DUP up the wrong way. It’s a pathetic charade.

There is literally NO show in town for almost half the population of the North. At least the DUP and Sammy are at Westminster spouting absolute drivel that their base laps up. Sinn Fein are doing ABSOLUTELY f**king NOTHING as they hope if they stay quiet enough they’ll get their border poll.

No Government because of no Irish language act? We’re past that now lads get the Government up and running and people’s lives back to normal and we can have the border poll in a few years once we have the majority . . . The irony being the South probably won’t want to take us on anyway!!

We are badly lacking leadership and I actually think McGuinness wouldn’t have us in this position. He’s such a loss for the North we’re only starting to appreciate the work he did in holding it all together for so long!!

Here I'll kick SF as much as any in NI but it's not just the ILA that brought down Stormont. The DUP are unworkable with. The ILA was just the breaking point. The DUP don't understand negotiations or compromise. SF aren't much better to be honest but the DUP are on another level. Every concession they give to anything Irish is seen as a defeat and they fight it as much as possible.

SF facilitated the DUP. SIF is a perfect example. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP for letting them away with it. SF and the DUP are unable to govern. They only lasted 11 months without the other parties in the executive, no budget for example. They couldn't run a bath.
So you're saying SF are bad because they are letting the DUP away with it, Screenexcile is saying they should forget about things and try and make it work with the DUP and getting Stormont up and running again. So whichever way they decide to go they are going to get slated. For what it's worth, I think they made the correct decision walking away. They DUP needed to learn that they didn't have sole control of NI. It had been building and hopefully will make the DUP realise in the Long run that they need to engage better and not see any reference to Irish culture as a negative.

They should get Stormont up and running again. And while they're at it they should DO THEIR f**king JOBS and run the executive like an office of government rather than a vehicle for corruption.
And give in to a DUP Veto on everything? You're statement sounds great but is incredibly naive. Stormont was set up as a Power sharing agreement. If the DUP are unwilling to share power then it's outside of SF's control. And that's basically what it comes down to. The choice is to either give in and let the DUP control power completely in NI or No stormont. They tried negotiations with the DUP who refused to budge. I don't agree that it should always be SF/ Nationalists who have to move on their position. If you have a realistic plan of how to get Stormont up and running again other than just giving into the DUP again then I'd be interested in hearing it, but needs to be a bit more that "they should DO THEIR f**king JOBS".
Personally I think SF come  with that much baggage that the DUP are always on the defensive and SF have to deal with that in a better way than they are doing. 
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit