Author Topic: More Dissident-Republican Activity  (Read 135438 times)

BennyCake

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1200 on: April 21, 2019, 11:45:47 AM »
Stormont is finished.

The DUP know if they go to talks, they will have to climb down on ILA, gay rights and abortion issues. Of course, it seems like every Tam Dick and Harry in the whole country is in favour of gay rights and abortion. Which is complete bollix.

So what are the DUP getting if they return? Those are the 3 outstanding issues. Theyíll be made to look weak and cowardly. They know these 3 things will be passed in time, but better to let their British masters do that dirty work than they themselves.

Anyway, Stormont returning is pointless. DUP and SF are as bad as each other. A shower of pricks, the lot of them.

smelmoth

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1201 on: April 21, 2019, 11:48:09 AM »
Which fig leaf are SF abstaining from government on? ILA or RHI? RHI will have washed through by Autumn at the latest. That leaves ILA. A fig leaf for both  parties to dodge responsibility. Each adopt extreme positions that the other can point to as unreasonable and we just sit around and wait. The people can only let this shower away it for so long. Or maybe you think it is sensible to sit and wait?

But in relation to the ILA SF have not adopted an extreme position, but one that is so dilute as to be almost invisible.
There is no symmetry here.

I wasnít aware that SF had abandoned quotas. My local representatives refuse to rule it out and are actually arguing for it.

smelmoth

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1202 on: April 21, 2019, 11:50:43 AM »
Sinn fein running around in big cars whilst they push welfare reforms through.
Going to get hit at ballot box in Derry

Sinn Fťin have little choice but to reform welfare as that is the amount of money they have. The question should be, have they a plan to improve the economy to get people off welfare?

Why be pedantic. They are against rights for gay people. Call it what you will.

The oldest trick in the book to prevent debate. Come up with an all-encompassing label and if anyone disputes this call them pedantic. Hence if you oppose the Israeli government you are "anti-semitic", if you oppose Brexit you are "anti-British" etc.

Being in Government now is suboptimal. Itís Berlin or Londonís way or it's the Shinnersí way.
The Met Police in London had £850m of austerity cuts. The neoliberals even do it to law and order.
Sinn Fťin will put the lotion on its skin unless it wants the hose again.

Any party that sees being in government during difficult times as suboptimal is not worth voting for. Itís the antithesis of public service and leadership. It self serving cowardice

More nonsense. To be in government in the north needs both parties able to compromise. It's 100% clear that DUP have refused to compromise so by your logic in that case SF should just abandon their position and go into government anyway. And tell me then how will their core vote feel about them then, what sort of vacuum would it create and who might exploit that vacuum. Nonsensical post.

Which fig leaf are SF abstaining from government on? ILA or RHI? RHI will have washed through by Autumn at the latest. That leaves ILA. A fig leaf for both  parties to dodge responsibility. Each adopt extreme positions that the other can point to as unreasonable and we just sit around and wait. The people can only let this shower away it for so long. Or maybe you think it is sensible to sit and wait?

When SF pulled the pin on Stormont, they had the backing of the nationalist community - they should have pulled it down 12months before hand.  The DUP were out of control and there was no 'powersharing'. SF were compromising i.e. Martin McG going above and beyond but the aDUP didn't return the favour.

That's why SF pulled Stormont and don't want to go back.  They know the way the DUP played their game and SF believe their voters will not forgive them again.

The way you make it out is one side is as bad as the other!!

I think Martin McG honestly tried to make it work but the true ethos of the DUP has shone through.

So for me, it's no return to Stormont. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

So direct rule in perpetuity??? Thatís the default. In that scenario the NI electorate outsource voting to the c60m in GB. Brilliant

smelmoth

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1203 on: April 21, 2019, 11:53:06 AM »
Stormont is finished.

The DUP know if they go to talks, they will have to climb down on ILA, gay rights and abortion issues. Of course, it seems like every Tam Dick and Harry in the whole country is in favour of gay rights and abortion. Which is complete bollix.

So what are the DUP getting if they return? Those are the 3 outstanding issues. Theyíll be made to look weak and cowardly. They know these 3 things will be passed in time, but better to let their British masters do that dirty work than they themselves.

Anyway, Stormont returning is pointless. DUP and SF are as bad as each other. A shower of pricks, the lot of them.

And the alternative to Stormont remains direct rule. SF and DUP must really like how things are shaping up in Westminster to trust that in perpetuity

seafoid

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1204 on: April 21, 2019, 11:53:50 AM »
Most people donít vote for or against austerity though in ni seafoid. You are trying to apply economics to an electorate who donít necessarily take into account economics when they vote. Maybe 32 county wide but certainly not 6 county wide.

Cuts drive people mad, Itchy. So does the absence of payrises coupled with inflation .
It is the same everywhere.
Political parties fail when voters perceive them to be impotent. Ask FF

Lookit

marty34

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1205 on: April 21, 2019, 11:57:42 AM »
Sinn fein running around in big cars whilst they push welfare reforms through.
Going to get hit at ballot box in Derry

Sinn Fťin have little choice but to reform welfare as that is the amount of money they have. The question should be, have they a plan to improve the economy to get people off welfare?

Why be pedantic. They are against rights for gay people. Call it what you will.

The oldest trick in the book to prevent debate. Come up with an all-encompassing label and if anyone disputes this call them pedantic. Hence if you oppose the Israeli government you are "anti-semitic", if you oppose Brexit you are "anti-British" etc.

Being in Government now is suboptimal. Itís Berlin or Londonís way or it's the Shinnersí way.
The Met Police in London had £850m of austerity cuts. The neoliberals even do it to law and order.
Sinn Fťin will put the lotion on its skin unless it wants the hose again.

Any party that sees being in government during difficult times as suboptimal is not worth voting for. Itís the antithesis of public service and leadership. It self serving cowardice

More nonsense. To be in government in the north needs both parties able to compromise. It's 100% clear that DUP have refused to compromise so by your logic in that case SF should just abandon their position and go into government anyway. And tell me then how will their core vote feel about them then, what sort of vacuum would it create and who might exploit that vacuum. Nonsensical post.

Which fig leaf are SF abstaining from government on? ILA or RHI? RHI will have washed through by Autumn at the latest. That leaves ILA. A fig leaf for both  parties to dodge responsibility. Each adopt extreme positions that the other can point to as unreasonable and we just sit around and wait. The people can only let this shower away it for so long. Or maybe you think it is sensible to sit and wait?

When SF pulled the pin on Stormont, they had the backing of the nationalist community - they should have pulled it down 12months before hand.  The DUP were out of control and there was no 'powersharing'. SF were compromising i.e. Martin McG going above and beyond but the aDUP didn't return the favour.

That's why SF pulled Stormont and don't want to go back.  They know the way the DUP played their game and SF believe their voters will not forgive them again.

The way you make it out is one side is as bad as the other!!

I think Martin McG honestly tried to make it work but the true ethos of the DUP has shone through.

So for me, it's no return to Stormont. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

Although I agree with your sentiments on DUP and that a stand had to be taken, it unfortunately is not helping areas like Creggan.

Derry and west of the Bann continue to be cut adrift in the meantime with an MP who hasn't got a clue at the helm. Very weak politician.

Derry has always been neglected - an MP won't do that much in fairness.  Very hard to reverse this history of unemployment etc. inside a few years.

Good business' in Derry and hopefully the university will get the medical school.  I'm thinking Brexit is a big issue with the natural hinterland of Donegal close by.


marty34

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1206 on: April 21, 2019, 12:03:39 PM »
Stormont is finished.

The DUP know if they go to talks, they will have to climb down on ILA, gay rights and abortion issues. Of course, it seems like every Tam Dick and Harry in the whole country is in favour of gay rights and abortion. Which is complete bollix.

So what are the DUP getting if they return? Those are the 3 outstanding issues. Theyíll be made to look weak and cowardly. They know these 3 things will be passed in time, but better to let their British masters do that dirty work than they themselves.

Anyway, Stormont returning is pointless. DUP and SF are as bad as each other. A shower of pricks, the lot of them.

The question is then why do people vote for them in massive numbers? 

No point in saying they are useless - why are they useless?

I've asked this question before - if SF are not the answer, what type of party do nationalists want going forward?

The answers I got were - I don't like SF as they're no good etc.  but no one has said I want a party who does A, B and C etc.

It's like Brexit in London - everybody says what they're against but nobody says what they are for!


Itchy

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1207 on: April 21, 2019, 12:10:48 PM »
Sinn fein running around in big cars whilst they push welfare reforms through.
Going to get hit at ballot box in Derry

Sinn Fťin have little choice but to reform welfare as that is the amount of money they have. The question should be, have they a plan to improve the economy to get people off welfare?

Why be pedantic. They are against rights for gay people. Call it what you will.

The oldest trick in the book to prevent debate. Come up with an all-encompassing label and if anyone disputes this call them pedantic. Hence if you oppose the Israeli government you are "anti-semitic", if you oppose Brexit you are "anti-British" etc.

Being in Government now is suboptimal. Itís Berlin or Londonís way or it's the Shinnersí way.
The Met Police in London had £850m of austerity cuts. The neoliberals even do it to law and order.
Sinn Fťin will put the lotion on its skin unless it wants the hose again.

Any party that sees being in government during difficult times as suboptimal is not worth voting for. Itís the antithesis of public service and leadership. It self serving cowardice

More nonsense. To be in government in the north needs both parties able to compromise. It's 100% clear that DUP have refused to compromise so by your logic in that case SF should just abandon their position and go into government anyway. And tell me then how will their core vote feel about them then, what sort of vacuum would it create and who might exploit that vacuum. Nonsensical post.

Which fig leaf are SF abstaining from government on? ILA or RHI? RHI will have washed through by Autumn at the latest. That leaves ILA. A fig leaf for both  parties to dodge responsibility. Each adopt extreme positions that the other can point to as unreasonable and we just sit around and wait. The people can only let this shower away it for so long. Or maybe you think it is sensible to sit and wait?

Ok, so let's SF just walk into to government tomorrow with no compromise. Tell me what happens next. Do the dissidents just vanish. There is no logic to what you say.

Did anybody claim that the dissidents would disappear?? What is your logic for even posing such a an incredible question???

SF have to set out something for the people of NI. Good luck to them if their long term strategy is simply to dodge decision making. Same applies to DUP

My logic is that quite a few have laid some blame at Sinn Fein door for what happened in Creggan, that what I was talking about in my first post.

charlieTully

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1208 on: April 21, 2019, 01:34:13 PM »
Stormont is finished.

The DUP know if they go to talks, they will have to climb down on ILA, gay rights and abortion issues. Of course, it seems like every Tam Dick and Harry in the whole country is in favour of gay rights and abortion. Which is complete bollix.

So what are the DUP getting if they return? Those are the 3 outstanding issues. Theyíll be made to look weak and cowardly. They know these 3 things will be passed in time, but better to let their British masters do that dirty work than they themselves.

Anyway, Stormont returning is pointless. DUP and SF are as bad as each other. A shower of pricks, the lot of them.

The question is then why do people vote for them in massive numbers? 

No point in saying they are useless - why are they useless?

I've asked this question before - if SF are not the answer, what type of party do nationalists want going forward?

The answers I got were - I don't like SF as they're no good etc.  but no one has said I want a party who does A, B and C etc.

It's like Brexit in London - everybody says what they're against but nobody says what they are for!

the usual suspects. Sinn Fein Are Pricks. Useless shower bla bla bla bla. Set your own party up lads. This place will never have normal politics unfortunately. It's abnormal. Partition has failed.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1209 on: April 21, 2019, 06:31:56 PM »
MTV now being brought in to the analysis as being responsible for the orchestrated riot when dozens of petrol bombs were ready at hand when the PSNI turned up.  MTV doing a programme on disaffected youth and had contact with those able to bring a riot to the streets:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/21/new-ira-staged-derry-riot-to-impress-tv-presenter-reggie-yates

Wouldn't be the first riot for the cameras.

BennyCake

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1210 on: April 21, 2019, 07:17:52 PM »
Stormont is finished.

The DUP know if they go to talks, they will have to climb down on ILA, gay rights and abortion issues. Of course, it seems like every Tam Dick and Harry in the whole country is in favour of gay rights and abortion. Which is complete bollix.

So what are the DUP getting if they return? Those are the 3 outstanding issues. Theyíll be made to look weak and cowardly. They know these 3 things will be passed in time, but better to let their British masters do that dirty work than they themselves.

Anyway, Stormont returning is pointless. DUP and SF are as bad as each other. A shower of pricks, the lot of them.

The question is then why do people vote for them in massive numbers?

No point in saying they are useless - why are they useless?


I've asked this question before - if SF are not the answer, what type of party do nationalists want going forward?

The answers I got were - I don't like SF as they're no good etc.  but no one has said I want a party who does A, B and C etc.

It's like Brexit in London - everybody says what they're against but nobody says what they are for!

Because of sectarian voting.

SF and DUP donít have to do anything when they get voted in. They just point a finger at themmuns, and that rises their voters out yet again.

The DUP do hold the aces as long as NI exists. They donít have to work with SF, and if all goes tits up, itís back to London. And they donít care how much London f**k up this place, because at least theyíre still part of the uk, and they donít have to share/talk with SF.

marty34

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1211 on: April 21, 2019, 07:38:17 PM »
Stormont is finished.

The DUP know if they go to talks, they will have to climb down on ILA, gay rights and abortion issues. Of course, it seems like every Tam Dick and Harry in the whole country is in favour of gay rights and abortion. Which is complete bollix.

So what are the DUP getting if they return? Those are the 3 outstanding issues. Theyíll be made to look weak and cowardly. They know these 3 things will be passed in time, but better to let their British masters do that dirty work than they themselves.

Anyway, Stormont returning is pointless. DUP and SF are as bad as each other. A shower of pricks, the lot of them.

The question is then why do people vote for them in massive numbers?

No point in saying they are useless - why are they useless?


I've asked this question before - if SF are not the answer, what type of party do nationalists want going forward?

The answers I got were - I don't like SF as they're no good etc.  but no one has said I want a party who does A, B and C etc.

It's like Brexit in London - everybody says what they're against but nobody says what they are for!

Because of sectarian voting.

SF and DUP donít have to do anything when they get voted in. They just point a finger at themmuns, and that rises their voters out yet again.

The DUP do hold the aces as long as NI exists. They donít have to work with SF, and if all goes tits up, itís back to London. And they donít care how much London f**k up this place, because at least theyíre still part of the uk, and they donít have to share/talk with SF.

All well and good but I need better reasons than that - because they are sectarian etc.  That's a general throw away comment.


screenexile

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1212 on: April 22, 2019, 12:37:40 AM »
Sectarian voting is the reason though... how many points from Sinn Feinís Or the DUPís last manifesto do you think the average voter remembers or really cares about?

Where Iím from you vote Sinn Fein to keep the numbers up so the other side donít get in and thatís it. Thereís been any number of independent candidates who are decent people and stood for honourable things but have barely reached triple figures because of some halfwit whose every other line is ďbut what about the DUPĒ

I honestly donít see a way out of this other than the leadership of the SDLP or Ulster Unionists getting some brains and charisma into leadership positions.

I wonít hold my breath!

marty34

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1213 on: April 22, 2019, 10:12:52 AM »
Sectarian voting is the reason though... how many points from Sinn Feinís Or the DUPís last manifesto do you think the average voter remembers or really cares about?

Where Iím from you vote Sinn Fein to keep the numbers up so the other side donít get in and thatís it. Thereís been any number of independent candidates who are decent people and stood for honourable things but have barely reached triple figures because of some halfwit whose every other line is ďbut what about the DUPĒ

I honestly donít see a way out of this other than the leadership of the SDLP or Ulster Unionists getting some brains and charisma into leadership positions.

I wonít hold my breath!

People have choices on how they want to vote so it's up to them.  People who snipe on the sidelines like 'one side is as bad as the other etc. doesn't work.

I've said this before - every election from now on will be a sectarian headcount. 

DUP V SF.

BennyCake

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Re: More Dissident-Republican Activity
« Reply #1214 on: April 22, 2019, 01:47:07 PM »
Sectarian voting is the reason though... how many points from Sinn Feinís Or the DUPís last manifesto do you think the average voter remembers or really cares about?

Where Iím from you vote Sinn Fein to keep the numbers up so the other side donít get in and thatís it. Thereís been any number of independent candidates who are decent people and stood for honourable things but have barely reached triple figures because of some halfwit whose every other line is ďbut what about the DUPĒ

I honestly donít see a way out of this other than the leadership of the SDLP or Ulster Unionists getting some brains and charisma into leadership positions.

I wonít hold my breath!

People have choices on how they want to vote so it's up to them.  People who snipe on the sidelines like 'one side is as bad as the other etc. doesn't work.

I've said this before - every election from now on will be a sectarian headcount. 

DUP V SF.

But they are as bad as each other.