Author Topic: The Official WWE thread  (Read 56887 times)

Fionntamhnach

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #615 on: April 08, 2019, 08:30:12 AM »
Don't worry, the arsehole that attacked Bret Hart got plenty of the help he needs...


 

...didn't stay up to watch WM35 especially as its a very long show these days, but the event seems to have got some decent reviews all round.

Won't say who won what as I don't want to spoil it for anyone looking to watch it later. 🤫
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Cunny Funt

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #616 on: April 08, 2019, 02:56:48 PM »
Longest ever mania 7 hours 30 minutes if adding in the 2 hour pre-show and still had no time or room for the likes of Kevin Owens or Sami Zayn. It was apparently the 3rd highest ever attendance for Wrestlemania. First time the Undertaker didn't appear on a mania for the best part of 20 years.

Without giving away the results. I thought the Kofi v Bryan was probably the best match of the night. Longest match of the night was between two buddies one aged 49 the other 50 and not a match to watch for anyone that wears nose rings. Not sure if that botched finish on main event was pre-planned or not?


Tampa Bay for next year and it looks like a pirate themed one.

David McKeown

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #617 on: April 08, 2019, 06:09:40 PM »
Longest ever mania 7 hours 30 minutes if adding in the 2 hour pre-show and still had no time or room for the likes of Kevin Owens or Sami Zayn. It was apparently the 3rd highest ever attendance for Wrestlemania. First time the Undertaker didn't appear on a mania for the best part of 20 years.

Without giving away the results. I thought the Kofi v Bryan was probably the best match of the night. Longest match of the night was between two buddies one aged 49 the other 50 and not a match to watch for anyone that wears nose rings. Not sure if that botched finish on main event was pre-planned or not?


Tampa Bay for next year and it looks like a pirate themed one.

Yeah I thought it was a genuine botch either way I thought it was a poor end to a decent PPV. Bit of a curated egg. Some great matches some poor but I thought the running order was very very strange and stopped it from being a great Mania. Good to see Niki getting well featured now if they would just put her husband on TV Iíd be delighted and Iíd go back. Tampa is very tempting I have to say

Boycey

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #618 on: April 08, 2019, 07:07:20 PM »
Genuine question...

I just don't get wrestling, I didn't even as a kid... What do you fans like about? Is the the theatre? Pantomime? Is it the same as going to a really good gig? The odd time I've seen it on TV I've always been struck by the amount of adults in the crowd going absolutely mental for it when I (genuinely) would expect the audience to be mainly juvenile...

A customer of mine told me last week he was heading for Vegas with his girlfriend and stopping in NYC for WrestleMania on his way back. He said the tickets were $700, I'm not sure if that was each or for the pair but either way  :o This boy is in his 40s.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 09:28:12 PM by Boycey »

Nanderson

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #619 on: April 08, 2019, 08:59:33 PM »
I was big into wrestling as a kid from about 2003-2010. Since then i've just dipped into it now and again and always keep an eye out for results. I just enjoy the entertainment of it. Like i've always understood its not real but the wrestlers do risk themselves to entertain people and that has to be appreciated. Sometimes you can nearly predict who is gonna win but its nice when the creative team throws in a curve ball that keeps that bit of doubt in your head when you're thinking about who is gonna win

David McKeown

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #620 on: April 08, 2019, 10:41:35 PM »
I got hooked on wrestling in 1996. There was a group of 5 of us in school and I loved for the theatre of it all. Beautiful women, cool violence, great characters and captivating story lines I thought the Monday night wars era had it all. Once the attitude era ended I kinda fell out of touch watching only occasionally but often enough to still know the characters. I then got drawn back in a few years ago when Damo started making a name for himself. I started going to the local Indy shows and really got interested in the business of wrestling. How things where booked, what people were like in real life etc. When he told me he and Nikki had signed with WWE I started watching NXT again which is and has been superb since. This coincided with my career going well and having a bit of disposable income so I went to see Damo and Nikki two years ago. I timed it to also take it WrestleMania 33 and it was spectacular. The atmosphere the entertainment everything about it was amazing. Now I pay attention to every show and every PPV again although now itís like my guilty pleasure. I donít think the characters or the story lines are anywhere near as good now so I still long for the attitude era but the in ring action is now the best itís ever been so I enjoy watching it as I do any tv show. Iím lucky too to have the background into a little of what goes on behind the scenes as well.

Wildweasel74

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #621 on: April 09, 2019, 12:05:34 AM »
You lads missed the greatest era of wrestling from 1987 to 1993. Started to fall away. Then can round for awhile from 1997_2002. Been a class A disaster now for 15yrs with no characters/talkers of any remote interest.

Cunny Funt

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #622 on: April 09, 2019, 12:28:13 AM »
Have followed it since the mid 80s and granted it isn't as good as it use to be its still the characters,story lines that keeps me interested. The old routine of good v bad or heals v faces as they are called in wrestling is still in place. Its a lot like movies or good TV show but the wrestlers don't use body doubles for their stunts and the wrestlers that have good mic skills and carry off good matches are normally the ones that are given titles or given main event status at big shows.  The price for tickets especially for Wrestlemania (its super bowl) in the low tiers are ever increasing.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 10:06:19 AM by Cunny Funt »

David McKeown

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #623 on: April 09, 2019, 08:37:59 AM »
I went two years ago and got an excellent seat for $70. The $700 seats described above definitely exist but they are the more premium seats probably on ground level near the ring but still a good bit back. So it really depends what you want to pay. I was looking last week about going this year and the decent seats started at $135. Whilst ringside were about $1800

Fionntamhnach

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #624 on: April 09, 2019, 11:30:51 PM »
Genuine question...

I just don't get wrestling, I didn't even as a kid... What do you fans like about? Is the the theatre? Pantomime? Is it the same as going to a really good gig? The odd time I've seen it on TV I've always been struck by the amount of adults in the crowd going absolutely mental for it when I (genuinely) would expect the audience to be mainly juvenile...

A customer of mine told me last week he was heading for Vegas with his girlfriend and stopping in NYC for WrestleMania on his way back. He said the tickets were $700, I'm not sure if that was each or for the pair but either way  :o This boy is in his 40s.

I only dip in to see what's going on in pro-wrestling on odd occasions now, but how it sometimes attracts my interest is a combination of factors. The theatre, the sportsmanship, the storytelling & the characters would be among the most prominent reasons. Everyone whom is at least above primary school age knows that what goes on is staged and scripted. That fourth wall was broken down a long time ago. The way the likes of WWE have evolved in their presentation notably change every few years, from the "rock 'n' wrestling" with hugely pumped up steroid & cocaine abusers in the mid-80's to early 90's to the era of cartoonish gimmicks on to the famed "attitude" era on to a era which involved less hitting each other with chairs and rubbish bins to the head on to a more in-ring focused product albeit still with a few gimmicks as a nod to past eras plus a focus on "risky" flying manoeuvres, onwards to a "PG" era on to where it is at present - one where most of the fans that turn up or tune in are mainly interested in the wrestlers emphasising athletic ability, storytelling and personal character development and very little on cheesy gimmicks. It is still "PG" rated, but at times has a slight edge to it.

The fans are also now much more vocal as to whom they actually want to cheer and with little in the way for the likes of Vince McMahon to fully control it. The best modern day example is with Roman Reigns, whom McMahon is eager to promote as "the face" of the company the same way as John Cena did. And Cena faced a load of problems like that back in the 00's where he was often cast as "Super Cena" because of the predictable way he was booked, but started to get over with fans better near the end of the decade - the turning point was probably at the 2008 Royal Rumble. For the next few years you'd often hear "duelling chants" from audiences when he had his bouts, up to the last couple of years where most now acknowledge that he's was/is actually a pretty decent wrestler that's won him over.

A lot of "small" men now dominate the pro-wrestling scene, small in the sense going up against whom were often involved in the 80's. These days you don't see wrestlers generally 'roided up to the gills nor do you see them look like your overweight uncle with a balding mullet in a pair of lyrca tights. There are still a few "big guys" out there, Brock Lesnar is one hangover from the early 00's (working part-time). But perhaps the epitome of the modern WWE wrestler is Daniel Bryan - whom would otherwise in years gone by be seen as a "vanilla midget" but now is perhaps the best in the world as an all-round package. A brilliant in-ring technician like Bret Hart was, understands how to pace a bout to tell a "story" through the bout, and while his charisma and promos aren't at the level of what The Rock was in his prime, he's still had plenty to get himself over that wherever he is a "face (good guy) of "heel" (bad guy) it's almost impossible for crowds not to connect with him - the worst thing that can happen to wrestlers in the ring is where the crowd are silent, not caring what's going on in front of them.

Finally for the WWE, one big change between now and from the start of this decade is the female talent on its roster. Back then it was rare for them to have womens wrestling be done in a serious manner like mens bouts were, the talent was often drawn up from the likes with modelling and cheerleading backgrounds to be thrown into the likes of "bra and panties" matches and be little more than eye candy. The last few years has seen a dramatic shift where the womens wrestlers are put on the same pedestal now as the men and promoted as such (except for the twice-yearly jaunts to Saudi Arabia). The idea of the WWE having a serious women's Royal Rumble match, their own "PPV" show or even have the main event of Wrestlemania be an all-female bout would have been unfathomable a decade ago.

Outside of the WWE, there's still a lot of good, smaller promotions. Impact Wrestling (neť TNA) once tried to give the WWE a run for its money like WCW did in the 90's, except they were nowhere near them. These days they're a small promotion with a TV deal that still keeps them in the public eye. Ring of Honor is another promotion that could be claimed to somewhat be a prototype to todays WWE the same way ECW was to WWE's Attitude era. If you like your hardcore blood & guts death matches, CZW delivers a few times a year especially with its "Tournament of Death" that goes way further than even the most violent moments of the Attutide era. Chikara and Pro Wrestling Guerrilla also both deserve mentions. Over on this side of the Atlantic, the independent scene is probably at its highest peak since the days of pro-wrestling on ITV's World of Sport in the 70's & 80's. Progress Wrestling in London ran a show in Wembley Arena with 4,750 in attendance back in September, while Glasgow based Insane Championship Wrestling did an event in the SSE Hydro Arena in the city in 2016 that drew a crowd of over 6000. There's a few local promotions across Ireland that hold shows in various town every few months.

The spectacle of pro wrestling certain isn't for everyone. But it does have a wide ranging appeal these days at many different levels especially outside the WWE. It's no longer the days of Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, or DeGeneration X getting you to chant "Suck It!" but it's still very accessible to young and not so young alike. Also, thank f**k the cries of pro-wrestling being "fake" are almost gone. As I mentioned earlier everyone knows it's not "real" - if someone in your home or workplace is talking about Coronation Street of Fair City, you don't butt in and say "You know that shit's fake, right?" but when done well, pro-wrestling can get you drawn into the story evolving in front of you a well done storyline in a soap opera does. For the WWE, the proof in the pudding lies in the revenue they now generate. Back in the mid-90's Vince McMahon was nearly on the bones of his arse cheeks close to bankruptcy - last year the WWE made over US$930 million in revenue.
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oakleaflad

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #625 on: April 10, 2019, 11:09:42 AM »
Genuine question...

I just don't get wrestling, I didn't even as a kid... What do you fans like about? Is the the theatre? Pantomime? Is it the same as going to a really good gig? The odd time I've seen it on TV I've always been struck by the amount of adults in the crowd going absolutely mental for it when I (genuinely) would expect the audience to be mainly juvenile...

A customer of mine told me last week he was heading for Vegas with his girlfriend and stopping in NYC for WrestleMania on his way back. He said the tickets were $700, I'm not sure if that was each or for the pair but either way  :o This boy is in his 40s.

I only dip in to see what's going on in pro-wrestling on odd occasions now, but how it sometimes attracts my interest is a combination of factors. The theatre, the sportsmanship, the storytelling & the characters would be among the most prominent reasons. Everyone whom is at least above primary school age knows that what goes on is staged and scripted. That fourth wall was broken down a long time ago. The way the likes of WWE have evolved in their presentation notably change every few years, from the "rock 'n' wrestling" with hugely pumped up steroid & cocaine abusers in the mid-80's to early 90's to the era of cartoonish gimmicks on to the famed "attitude" era on to a era which involved less hitting each other with chairs and rubbish bins to the head on to a more in-ring focused product albeit still with a few gimmicks as a nod to past eras plus a focus on "risky" flying manoeuvres, onwards to a "PG" era on to where it is at present - one where most of the fans that turn up or tune in are mainly interested in the wrestlers emphasising athletic ability, storytelling and personal character development and very little on cheesy gimmicks. It is still "PG" rated, but at times has a slight edge to it.

The fans are also now much more vocal as to whom they actually want to cheer and with little in the way for the likes of Vince McMahon to fully control it. The best modern day example is with Roman Reigns, whom McMahon is eager to promote as "the face" of the company the same way as John Cena did. And Cena faced a load of problems like that back in the 00's where he was often cast as "Super Cena" because of the predictable way he was booked, but started to get over with fans better near the end of the decade - the turning point was probably at the 2008 Royal Rumble. For the next few years you'd often hear "duelling chants" from audiences when he had his bouts, up to the last couple of years where most now acknowledge that he's was/is actually a pretty decent wrestler that's won him over.

A lot of "small" men now dominate the pro-wrestling scene, small in the sense going up against whom were often involved in the 80's. These days you don't see wrestlers generally 'roided up to the gills nor do you see them look like your overweight uncle with a balding mullet in a pair of lyrca tights. There are still a few "big guys" out there, Brock Lesnar is one hangover from the early 00's (working part-time). But perhaps the epitome of the modern WWE wrestler is Daniel Bryan - whom would otherwise in years gone by be seen as a "vanilla midget" but now is perhaps the best in the world as an all-round package. A brilliant in-ring technician like Bret Hart was, understands how to pace a bout to tell a "story" through the bout, and while his charisma and promos aren't at the level of what The Rock was in his prime, he's still had plenty to get himself over that wherever he is a "face (good guy) of "heel" (bad guy) it's almost impossible for crowds not to connect with him - the worst thing that can happen to wrestlers in the ring is where the crowd are silent, not caring what's going on in front of them.

Finally for the WWE, one big change between now and from the start of this decade is the female talent on its roster. Back then it was rare for them to have womens wrestling be done in a serious manner like mens bouts were, the talent was often drawn up from the likes with modelling and cheerleading backgrounds to be thrown into the likes of "bra and panties" matches and be little more than eye candy. The last few years has seen a dramatic shift where the womens wrestlers are put on the same pedestal now as the men and promoted as such (except for the twice-yearly jaunts to Saudi Arabia). The idea of the WWE having a serious women's Royal Rumble match, their own "PPV" show or even have the main event of Wrestlemania be an all-female bout would have been unfathomable a decade ago.

Outside of the WWE, there's still a lot of good, smaller promotions. Impact Wrestling (neť TNA) once tried to give the WWE a run for its money like WCW did in the 90's, except they were nowhere near them. These days they're a small promotion with a TV deal that still keeps them in the public eye. Ring of Honor is another promotion that could be claimed to somewhat be a prototype to todays WWE the same way ECW was to WWE's Attitude era. If you like your hardcore blood & guts death matches, CZW delivers a few times a year especially with its "Tournament of Death" that goes way further than even the most violent moments of the Attutide era. Chikara and Pro Wrestling Guerrilla also both deserve mentions. Over on this side of the Atlantic, the independent scene is probably at its highest peak since the days of pro-wrestling on ITV's World of Sport in the 70's & 80's. Progress Wrestling in London ran a show in Wembley Arena with 4,750 in attendance back in September, while Glasgow based Insane Championship Wrestling did an event in the SSE Hydro Arena in the city in 2016 that drew a crowd of over 6000. There's a few local promotions across Ireland that hold shows in various town every few months.

The spectacle of pro wrestling certain isn't for everyone. But it does have a wide ranging appeal these days at many different levels especially outside the WWE. It's no longer the days of Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, or DeGeneration X getting you to chant "Suck It!" but it's still very accessible to young and not so young alike. Also, thank f**k the cries of pro-wrestling being "fake" are almost gone. As I mentioned earlier everyone knows it's not "real" - if someone in your home or workplace is talking about Coronation Street of Fair City, you don't butt in and say "You know that shit's fake, right?" but when done well, pro-wrestling can get you drawn into the story evolving in front of you a well done storyline in a soap opera does. For the WWE, the proof in the pudding lies in the revenue they now generate. Back in the mid-90's Vince McMahon was nearly on the bones of his arse cheeks close to bankruptcy - last year the WWE made over US$930 million in revenue.
That's a good summary.

As for the bit in bold - AEW (All Elite Wrestling) are the one's to really look out for. Financial backing from Shahid Khan and his son (Fulham FC and Jacksonville Jaguars) and a TV deal. Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, The Young Bucks, Lucha Bros, Christopher Daniels, Hangman Adam Page and Pac (Neville) all involved. Billy Gunn is a producer. Jim Ross (JR) on commentary. They sold out the 14,000 seater MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas for an event next month in 4 mins.

screenexile

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #626 on: April 10, 2019, 12:23:13 PM »
I don't follow it anymore but there was a stage there during the late 90's early 2000's where you had Stone Cold/Triple H/Angle/Mick Foley/Kane/Undertaker.

But even with that you had enjoyable outsiders like The Hardy Boyz/Jericho/Dudly Boyz/DX/Rakishi who were watchable up until the main event but it seems to have lost its main characters since then and definitely the Rock and Stone Cold were the best talkers I've seen and their loss has probably been difficult to overcome.

Having said that the WWE have bough over so many organisations that their popularity is probably as strong as it's ever been but I'm just not that bothered about it anymore to be fair.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: The Official WWE thread
« Reply #627 on: May 21, 2019, 04:46:16 AM »
Just thought this deserves more attention than only being circulated inside the pro-wrestling bubble, the irony of it being in the "Official WWE thread" is noted.

A few days ago a former WWE female talent, Ashley Massaro, died aged 39. Her death is being reported as an apparent suicide. She had been in relative obscurity over the last few years on the public stage.

Now, despite all I've written about pro-wrestling and why it can be enjoyable a few posts up, there's no denying that especially at the top level of the business an awful lot of shit goes on concerning the treatment of the wrestlers and other talent (managers, commentators, referees, bookers etc.) with a lot of wrestlers whom would have been recognisable faces in the 80's and 90's facing all sort of physical, mental and financial problems with a disturbingly high rate of them dying prematurely. It's a profession where you kind of live for the moment, but also has a high risk of trapping you in a vicious circle. One noted level of talent abuse is the use of having wrestlers in the WWE not be "employers" but "independent contractors", what we'd locally termed as the wrestlers as being self-employed whom are contracted by a business to perform a service. The thing is that even as independent contractors, the WWE wrestlers aren't allowed to work for any other wrestling promotion without their permission (i.e. very rare), have far fewer work protection rights compared to an employee, don't get health insurance etc. reminiscent of a dodgy employer over on this side of the Atlantic having a business with supposed employees but actually gets them to "write up" their work at the end of the week to make it look like they are self-employed instead, allowing the employer to avoid tax and NI/PRSI liabilities for their business - one practice that would get them into a whole world of trouble in Ireland or Britain if caught.

But going on from that, a couple of years ago there was a class-action lawsuit in the USA by a number of former WWE employees independent contractors suing them for compensation concerning workplace and contract conditions. It kind of fell by the wayside but is otherwise still ongoing, and a few of them filed affidavits - one of them was Ashley Massaro. This was submitted two years ago and reading through it, it's amazing nothing was noted about it even in the niche pro-wrestling media at the time. Only with her death has it now been given a bigger profile and definitely deserves notice in the mainstream because of what she submitted about of during her time in the WWE and beyond it.

I have to say that reading through this affidavit myself was an uncomfortable & disturbing feeling. I'd known about a lot of scummy things that Vince McMahon and the relevant top brass in the WWE have got up to over the years, but this goes on well beyond even that. I've left a link to the affidavit PDF below and also a brief summary below. In general, all I can say is f**k Vince McMahon. I won't be watching any more shows or content produced by the WWE nor actively give a single penny to them at least until Vince McMahon is dragged kicking & screaming away from the company or that the **** dies - and even then only if what happens afterwards demonstrates a better care of the wrestlers and other talent whom work to produce their shows, by treating them as actual employees to begin with.

As I said above, this is not pleasant reading - https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf

Summary

* Ms, Massaro gained employment a contract to work for the WWE as part of a "Diva Search" competition that also won her US$250,000. Vince already tried to screw her over on that by demanding that a portion of those winnings be given to a associate of his.

* Despite having no prior wrestling experience she was thrown into her first bout only a week after winning the Diva Search competition, on live television with millions watching. Ashley didn't protest about this even while being on the road for 4-5 days per week.

* Ashley did actually want to gain some proper pro-wrestling training and asked if she could be sent to their (at the time) farm promotion Ohio Valley Wrestling to learn - she was told no as this meant taking her off the WWE screens for several months. She then decided to try and get some training on her days off but when Stephanie McMahon (Vince's daughter) learned of this so was ordered to stop on the grounds that the gym she was attending was not properly certified by the WWE. So Ashley was not only not trained to do pro-wrestling bouts, she was actively being told not to train for them! Safe to say that someone untrained like her whom was only learning in a "live" setting was a hazard to her and those she worked with.

* Her lack of training meant she often didn't know how to take bumps properly, and was exposed to other wrestlers working stiff, leading her to pick up numerous injuries including concussions and fractures - in one case having a plaster on her arm being sawed off back stage on Vince McMahon's orders two weeks earlier than medically advised.

* IMO the most awful piece concerns Ashley being part of a five-person team with the WWE travelling to USA armed forces bases in Afghanistan, Kuwait & Saudi Arabia for a tour. Whilst in Kuwait she ended up being raped by what is presumed to have been an active service member of the forces on the base whilst having been drugged prior to the incident making her heavily sedated yet still aware of what was happening around her including the physical pain from penetration. There was no attempt to administer a rape kit on Ms. Massaro, and when leaving Saudi Arabia to return back to the USA via London there was a "ticket problem" which meant she couldn't board the flight. Despite the other four members of the team (including a fellow "Diva") knowing what had happened to her in Kuwait, she was left behind at Riyadh Airport on her own potentially having to stay overnight in the city (She was given a burka to wear during the tour but had already returned this back to the USA armed forces before going to the airport). Thankfully for her she had a friend back home whom was a travel agent that managed to get her out of the country a few hours later.

* Arriving back in the USA, Ashley was asked to come to a meeting with Vince McMahon and several WWE lawyers. Vince basically told her to not go public about what happened lest the relationship between the WWE and the USA armed forces was damaged, describing her experience in the Middle East as "one bad experience". No need for further comment on the meeting after that quote.

* Onwards from this, she speaks about how years later she was not aware of what her "independent contractor" status meant, how they had to travel long distances sometimes in their ring gear because of time pressures, how she was not properly told of her contract rights, and how her injuries and other incidents (including the rape mentioned above) were never notified to OSHA concerning workplace health & safety. There was also no information provided to her concerning the risks of TBI and CTE whilst performing.

* Finally she mentions about the medical care she has required since her WWE contract was terminated, including surgery, one of which she's had to put off because of the ability to pay for it and two others where she had to rely on Medicaid in her home state (New York) to help over the costs. The WWE contributed nothing towards these surgeries, and she spoke of how the WWE would tell her and other wrestlers to use drugs to perform whilst injured and which predictably ended up with her getting addicted that she thankfully overcame. She also lists her ongoing problems with depression, migraines and short term memory loss that she attributes to working in the WWE.

Once again, f**k Vince McMahon - even for just describing being drugged & raped as being "one bad incident". Daughter Stephanie doesn't exactly come out of this smelling of roses either.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:01:28 AM by Fionntamhnach »
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