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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2019, 04:09:48 PM

Title: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2019, 04:09:48 PM
Elections North and South of the border. I know the ones down here not for a while. However the council elections in NI are on 2nd of May. Who will the losers/winners be?
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: trailer on April 18, 2019, 04:27:02 PM
I thought you were going to say May is the month were the ladies get the low tapps on. 

Was disappointed when I opened this thread tbh.
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: bogball88 on April 18, 2019, 04:32:48 PM
Elections North and South of the border. I know the ones down here not for a while. However the council elections in NI are on 2nd of May. Who will the losers/winners be?
Possible EU elections in the North too. Few quid to be made for those working the poll  ;)
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: Shamrock Shore on April 18, 2019, 04:42:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7VirCScp0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7VirCScp0)
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: In hiding on April 18, 2019, 07:46:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7VirCScp0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7VirCScp0)

Wow
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: playwiththewind1st on April 18, 2019, 08:17:11 PM
Elections North and South of the border. I know the ones down here not for a while. However the council elections in NI are on 2nd of May. Who will the losers/winners be?
Possible EU elections in the North too. Few quid to be made for those working the poll  ;)

By the time you get taxed, it's not worth that much. You will never get rich out of it. Sitting on Industrial Tribunals is a far more lucrative gig altogether!
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: bogball88 on April 18, 2019, 10:04:45 PM
Elections North and South of the border. I know the ones down here not for a while. However the council elections in NI are on 2nd of May. Who will the losers/winners be?
Possible EU elections in the North too. Few quid to be made for those working the poll  ;)

By the time you get taxed, it's not worth that much. You will never get rich out of it. Sitting on Industrial Tribunals is a far more lucrative gig altogether!
How do you get in on that gig?
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: orangeman on April 18, 2019, 11:49:49 PM
Home grown strawberries !
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 02, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
How will today's vote go in NI? Green and orange lines or will Alliance and Independent get a fair chunk?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: north_antrim_hound on May 02, 2019, 10:08:36 AM
How will today's vote go in NI? Green and orange lines or will Alliance and Independent get a fair chunk?


I say it will be one of the lowest turn outs in years with unionist gaining a bigger gap. The unionist electorate donít mind incompetent representatives that act against their better interests. Nationalist I feel find it tougher to go and vote for a party who hasnít responded to their enhanced position of recent years.
Title: Re: May is the month of
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 02, 2019, 11:38:55 AM
Elections North and South of the border. I know the ones down here not for a while. However the council elections in NI are on 2nd of May. Who will the losers/winners be?
Possible EU elections in the North too. Few quid to be made for those working the poll  ;)

By the time you get taxed, it's not worth that much. You will never get rich out of it. Sitting on Industrial Tribunals is a far more lucrative gig altogether!

Bogball - There is an employer panel & an employee panel (this is primarily composed of union reps). One from each panel usually sits on a case, along with an Employment Judge. They normally advertise it locally under 'public appointments' & the successful applicants are then rubber stamped by a minister (that might be difficult, at present). A couple of hundred  quid per day, from 10-4, so can be a nice earner.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Estimator on May 02, 2019, 11:56:22 AM
How will today's vote go in NI? Green and orange lines or will Alliance and Independent get a fair chunk?

I say it will be one of the lowest turn outs in years with unionist gaining a bigger gap. The unionist electorate donít mind incompetent representatives that act against their better interests. Nationalist I feel find it tougher to go and vote for a party who hasnít responded to their enhanced position of recent years.

Not sure about what way the turnout will go, but I'd agree with the voting patterns of the Unionist electorate. They'll be out in force, voting for whatever shade of orange is on the ballot paper.  From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kidder81 on May 02, 2019, 12:34:27 PM
How will today's vote go in NI? Green and orange lines or will Alliance and Independent get a fair chunk?

I say it will be one of the lowest turn outs in years with unionist gaining a bigger gap. The unionist electorate donít mind incompetent representatives that act against their better interests. Nationalist I feel find it tougher to go and vote for a party who hasnít responded to their enhanced position of recent years.

Not sure about what way the turnout will go, but I'd agree with the voting patterns of the Unionist electorate. They'll be out in force, voting for whatever shade of orange is on the ballot paper.  From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.

Donít see too much proof of that
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 02, 2019, 02:06:01 PM
The 11 new super councils had their boundaries agreed & signed off very carefully indeed.  Most will be controlled in perpetuity by one side, or the other. There won't be any major shocks in terms of either SF or DUP losing control of an entire Council, so there's probably a lot of indifference out there. Belfast is probably the most even split, of any of them.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 02, 2019, 02:17:15 PM
The 11 new super councils had their boundaries agreed & signed off very carefully indeed.  Most will be controlled in perpetuity by one side, or the other. There won't be any major shocks in terms of either SF or DUP losing control of an entire Council, so there's probably a lot of indifference out there. Belfast is probably the most even split, of any of them.

Yeah they were a complete SF / DUP carve up. Now they won't work with each other at all.
Just another example of these parties delivering for the people.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 02, 2019, 02:24:15 PM
From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.

Do Alliance get much traction in nationalist areas west and south of the Bann?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 02, 2019, 03:27:09 PM
From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.

Do Alliance get much traction in nationalist areas west and south of the Bann?

Alliance are largely a greater Belfast party. They wouldn't be known for their agriculture spokespeople, for instance.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 02, 2019, 03:51:02 PM
From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.

Do Alliance get much traction in nationalist areas west and south of the Bann?

Alliance are largely a greater Belfast party. They wouldn't be known for their agriculture spokespeople, for instance.

So gen up on lamb prices and clean up in the whest?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rois on May 02, 2019, 08:43:59 PM
Just walked past NigelDodds outside a polling station - he must be worried!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 02, 2019, 08:50:17 PM
Just walked past NigelDodds outside a polling station - he must be worried!

They were manning the stations down my way as well and didnít look too happy. Which is strange as they are usually such a jovial bunch 😡
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 09:09:22 PM
Not one nationalist party on my list!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 02, 2019, 09:34:12 PM
From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.

Do Alliance get much traction in nationalist areas west and south of the Bann?

Not yet anyway. Middle class areas of belfast are their bread and butter. They have never really broken into the culchie vote.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 02, 2019, 09:34:53 PM
Just walked past NigelDodds outside a polling station - he must be worried!

He is worried in case the European elections aren't going to be held & he has to listen to Diane all week long.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 02, 2019, 09:36:19 PM
The 11 new super councils had their boundaries agreed & signed off very carefully indeed.  Most will be controlled in perpetuity by one side, or the other. There won't be any major shocks in terms of either SF or DUP losing control of an entire Council, so there's probably a lot of indifference out there. Belfast is probably the most even split, of any of them.

Yeah they were a complete SF / DUP carve up. Now they won't work with each other at all.
Just another example of these parties delivering for the people.

Isn't it the election commission, an independent body, which determines the make-up of councils???
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 02, 2019, 10:16:41 PM
Turnout in working class unionist areas seems to be very very low. Some areas as low as 30% at 9pm.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 02, 2019, 10:35:26 PM
Turnout in working class unionist areas seems to be very very low. Some areas as low as 30% at 9pm.

Will overall turnout reach 50%?

The ones that complain about politicans are usually the ones who can't get off the couch to vote.

So fair play to all those who stand as candidates - they have the courage to put their name forward and try to make their area a better place!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:19:26 PM
Turnout in working class unionist areas seems to be very very low. Some areas as low as 30% at 9pm.

Will overall turnout reach 50%?

The ones that complain about politicans are usually the ones who can't get off the couch to vote.

So fair play to all those who stand as candidates - they have the courage to put their name forward and try to make their area a better place!

So is your area a better place for the candidates that are in place? Itís a racket
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 02, 2019, 11:37:07 PM
Turnout in working class unionist areas seems to be very very low. Some areas as low as 30% at 9pm.

Will overall turnout reach 50%?

The ones that complain about politicans are usually the ones who can't get off the couch to vote.

So fair play to all those who stand as candidates - they have the courage to put their name forward and try to make their area a better place!

So is your area a better place for the candidates that are in place? Itís a racket

All I'm saying is people do so much complaining about politicans that they don't even vote.

Others then complain about this party and that party that they should stand themselves as independents or join a party.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:45:48 PM
Independents have generally come from a major party and done well based on their previous, there has only been a few that have stood out, formerly the Doctor from Fermanagh, where is he now?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: ziggysego on May 03, 2019, 12:43:45 AM
72% turnout in Greencastle
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: giveherlong on May 03, 2019, 07:36:06 AM
72% turnout in Greencastle

How will the local independent candidate do?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 03, 2019, 07:39:02 AM
If the middle parties can't make hay today they never will.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: ziggysego on May 03, 2019, 09:05:03 AM
72% turnout in Greencastle

How will the local independent candidate do?

Hopeful
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: giveherlong on May 03, 2019, 09:18:38 AM
Roughly how many first preference votes would he need?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Estimator on May 03, 2019, 09:55:50 AM
Looking at the results coming in from England - it looks like the Cons are being hammered because they haven't delivered Brexit and Labour are being hit because they haven't come out in favour of a 2nd Referendum. Lib Dems, Greens, Independents etc are making huge gains.
Don't think results like that will be repeated over here.

Looking at the 2014 results from Mid-Ulster:
Sinn Fein 18
Dup 8
UUP 7
SDLP 6
Independent 1

It'll probably be roughly the same, though I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two more Independents.

In 2014 the Moyola DEA elected:
Sinn Fein 3 (from 3 Candidates)
DUP 1 (from 1 Candidate)
UUP 1 (from 1 Candidate)

This year the above parties have the same amount of candidates standing as well. Plus 1 SDLP, 1 Alliance, 1 Workers Party.
5 seats available. The quota in 2014 was 1,235 with a turnout of 62%.

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 03, 2019, 10:47:03 AM
All I'm saying is people do so much complaining about politicans that they don't even vote.

Its a complete waste of time.

If the job of any minister were to be done via CV and interview process - not one of the politicians who end up being ministers would get by the first CV vetting stage.

Representative democracy where folks are "represented" by a bunch of history & politics students is insane. Its even worse when the civil service are so clearly incompetent that they **need** subject matter experts above them to hold their feet to the fire.

What do we have? Clueless civil service, even worse politicians and SPADS. :rolleyes:



And you wonder why people are disillusioned? If a political party doesn't have any member suitably qualified and experienced for the ministry roles in government - then they should be allowed to employ someone who is - but they should not be allowed to appoint any member who doesn't have a f**king clue and cannot even do a basic sniff test of what is being proposed from/going on within their ministry.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 03, 2019, 12:02:23 PM
In Fermanagh & Omagh, word is that Barry McElduff has topped the poll in Omagh Town but the count for the area won't begin until tomorrow morning.
Interestingly, turnout for the council elections in FODC seems to be slightly up from that in 2014.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: naka on May 03, 2019, 12:50:33 PM
Chatting to a fair few who didnít vote sf
Brexit/ stormont( no storming impacting in schools etc) and complacency for their votes
The main reason.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 03, 2019, 12:51:29 PM
Chatting to a fair few who didnít vote sf
Brexit/ stormont( no storming impacting in schools etc) and complacency for their votes
The main reason.

I didn't vote SF. Normally might well have. Independent Republican #1 and Alliance #2.

Main reasons above.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Snapchap on May 03, 2019, 01:16:52 PM
Chatting to a fair few who didnít vote sf
Brexit/ stormont( no storming impacting in schools etc) and complacency for their votes
The main reason.

I didn't vote SF. Normally might well have. Independent Republican #1 and Alliance #2.

Main reasons above.

Not buying this line from the media that SF are coming under pressure from their base to get back to Stormont. Pulling the pin from Stormont propelled them to their two most successful elections since partition and that's not exactly ancient history.

But for those who would normally have voted SF but decided not to this time because they aren't back in Stormont - is the memory seriously that short that it has already been forgotten who it was that reneged at the last second on a deal to get back to the assembly? As far as I'm concerned, not voting for SF for that reason is naively punishing SF for the DUP's intransigence.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 03, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
SF been given a bloody nose in the torrent DEA (coalisland, donaghmore, ardboe etc.
Independent republican Dan Kerr elected on the first count with a whopping 1500 votes, probably at the expense of the 4th SF seat now.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 03, 2019, 02:07:21 PM
Chatting to a fair few who didnít vote sf
Brexit/ stormont( no storming impacting in schools etc) and complacency for their votes
The main reason.

Understandable, but not terribly good reasons as councillors have no effective power concerning Brexit and Stormont. Complacency for votes? A more sensible reason.

Turnouts in FODC...

* Erne East (Lisnaskea, Newtownbutler, Roslea, Brookeboro) 71.62% (6 seats)
* Erne West (Belcoo, Garrison, Derrygonnelly, Kinawley) 69.03% (5)
* Mid-Tyrone (Beragh, Gortin, Sixmilecross, Carrickmore) 65.32% (6)
* Erne North (Irvinestown, Ballinamallard, Kesh, Belleek, Tempo) 63.2% (5)
* West Tyrone (Fintona, Dromore, Drumquin, Trillick) 62.81% (6)
* Enniskillen (inc. Lisbellaw) 56.04% (6)
* Omagh (inc. Killyclogher) 50.73% (6)

Overall - 62.41%

Erne East being done first, DUP, UUP & Independent (John McCloskey) reportedly elected. Talk that Sinn Fein might lose a seat here.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Estimator on May 03, 2019, 02:15:49 PM
Looking at the 2014 results from Mid-Ulster:
Sinn Fein 18
Dup 8
UUP 7
SDLP 6
Independent 1
It'll probably be roughly the same, though I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two more Independents.

With 15 seats counted the current scoreline is:

SF: 5
DUP: 5
SDLP: 3
INP: 2
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: naka on May 03, 2019, 02:32:11 PM


But for those who would normally have voted SF but decided not to this time because they aren't back in Stormont - is the memory seriously that short that it has already been forgotten who it was that reneged at the last second on a deal to get back to the assembly? As far as I'm concerned, not voting for SF for that reason is naively punishing SF for the DUP's intransigence.
[/quote]

think its wrong to thin otherwise
council elections first chance possible to mark sf card
1 Brexit wtf are sf doing
2 no Stormont, issues with education, health etc

united Ireland, equality etc are important but jeez its a fking mess out there re jobs pressures on public services etc.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 03, 2019, 02:50:09 PM
Looking at the 2014 results from Mid-Ulster:
Sinn Fein 18
Dup 8
UUP 7
SDLP 6
Independent 1
It'll probably be roughly the same, though I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two more Independents.


With 15 seats counted the current scoreline is:

SF: 5
DUP: 5
SDLP: 3
INP: 2

Where you getting these Estimator?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: thewobbler on May 03, 2019, 02:52:50 PM
Fair play to the English population, who are showing their incompetent politicians the door.

Meanwhile in NI.....


we deserve a shit economy folks
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Estimator on May 03, 2019, 02:55:03 PM
Looking at the 2014 results from Mid-Ulster:
Sinn Fein 18
Dup 8
UUP 7
SDLP 6
Independent 1
It'll probably be roughly the same, though I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two more Independents.


With 15 seats counted the current scoreline is:

SF: 5
DUP: 5
SDLP: 3
INP: 2

Where you getting these Estimator?

Found on Twitter using hashtag below:
#MidUlsterElection
Also the Mid Ulster Council and various media outlets are live tweeting the count.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 03, 2019, 03:43:25 PM
I know that election counts in Omagh have never been known for being swift, but they're really taking the piss today!
Further FODC updates: In Omagh it looks like both Chris Smyth (UUP) & Sorcha McAnespy (Ind/FF) are in trouble keeping their seats. Stephen Donnelly (AP) appears to polled well, but wherever it's enough to take a seat in the town will only be known tomorrow. Similarly Emmet McAleer (Ind) is thought to have done well in Mid-Tyrone, standing mainly on the issue concerning gold mining in the Sperrins, while in West Tyrone, Frankie Donnelly (SF) is thought to be in trouble keeping his seat. His main threat? His wife Anne-Marie (SF)!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Aaron Boone on May 03, 2019, 04:00:09 PM
Omagh counts would be exact opposite of Sunderlandís race to declare first.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 03, 2019, 04:21:36 PM
Jesus the Tory's have taken some kicking here!!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: lurganblue on May 03, 2019, 04:26:32 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Dire Ear on May 03, 2019, 04:30:11 PM
FERMANAGH AND OMAGH: Mid Tyrone DEA

Eligible electorate - 12, 556
Total votes polled - 8, 202
% turnout - 65.32%
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 03, 2019, 04:47:59 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

Sure if you have drunken driving, marital infidentity,  corruption as core values, you may as well have 1 gay & the odd sports massage. But - keep it real & save Ulster from Rome rule & sodomy.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: weareros on May 03, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
Jesus the Tory's have taken some kicking here!!!

The question is how they interpret that.
Voters angry because they did not deliver Brexit or Voters abandoning them in favour of remaining parties (LibDems).
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2019, 05:03:54 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

Sure if you have drunken driving, marital infidentity,  corruption as core values, you may as well have 1 gay & the odd sports massage. But - keep it real & save Ulster from Rome rule & sodomy.
You only vote for the DUP to "secure the Union", stick it to themmuns and the hope of a dodgy grant/slush fund. There is very little turns them off.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 03, 2019, 05:16:19 PM
Jesus the Tory's have taken some kicking here!!!

The question is how they interpret that.
Voters angry because they did not deliver Brexit or Voters abandoning them in favour of remaining parties (LibDems).

Itís both unfortunately!!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2019, 05:44:03 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

I wonder will she get a celebration cake from Ashers
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kidder81 on May 03, 2019, 05:59:38 PM
She looks like a lesbian too
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2019, 06:02:29 PM
What do they look like?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 03, 2019, 06:08:53 PM
What do they look like?

A bit like Arlene, only with spikier hair.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 03, 2019, 07:06:29 PM
Latest election news:
"The DUP's first openly Catholic candidate has been well done, at the stake"
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2019, 07:26:32 PM
Fergal Lennon of Aontķ eliminated on the first count in the ABC council area. Looks like mandatory mass attendance and anti-abortion hardline attitudes aren't a winning formula.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: imtommygunn on May 03, 2019, 09:05:26 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

Why would you represent a party when most of the leadership of the party think you are an abomination?? Makes no sense whatsoever. To be honest on either side.

Torres getting tanked in the elections is great news. Also from what I read UKIP down so two sets of positive news there. I was worried UKIP would be on the up. Not sure on the demographic of the independents mind who may be worse for all I know...
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2019, 09:06:42 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

Why would you represent a party when most of the leadership of the party think you are an abomination?? Makes no sense whatsoever. To be honest on either side.


Stockholm Syndrome? Or maybe she wants to try and fix the party from within.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 03, 2019, 09:09:24 PM
From my own perspective I think Nationalists, would be more opening to changing their vote to other options.

Do Alliance get much traction in nationalist areas west and south of the Bann?

Not yet anyway. Middle class areas of belfast are their bread and butter. They have never really broken into the culchie vote.

Maybe the culchies might think differently in future elections
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 03, 2019, 09:11:12 PM
Turnout in working class unionist areas seems to be very very low. Some areas as low as 30% at 9pm.

Will overall turnout reach 50%?

The ones that complain about politicans are usually the ones who can't get off the couch to vote.

So fair play to all those who stand as candidates - they have the courage to put their name forward and try to make their area a better place!

So is your area a better place for the candidates that are in place? Itís a racket

All I'm saying is people do so much complaining about politicans that they don't even vote.

Others then complain about this party and that party that they should stand themselves as independents or join a party.

Or vote for good candidates running for parties that try to make this place work
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 03, 2019, 09:15:28 PM
Labour are being hit because they haven't come out in favour of a second  referendum

Where Labour not hit for not the opposite reason. Looking at the districts where their vote fell it was hardly to do with not backing a second referendum
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 03, 2019, 09:18:00 PM

"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

See Jim Wells has been stressing his impeccably liberal credentials over this one lol.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 03, 2019, 09:18:50 PM
Chatting to a fair few who didnít vote sf
Brexit/ stormont( no storming impacting in schools etc) and complacency for their votes
The main reason.

I didn't vote SF. Normally might well have. Independent Republican #1 and Alliance #2.

Main reasons above.

Not buying this line from the media that SF are coming under pressure from their base to get back to Stormont. Pulling the pin from Stormont propelled them to their two most successful elections since partition and that's not exactly ancient history.

But for those who would normally have voted SF but decided not to this time because they aren't back in Stormont - is the memory seriously that short that it has already been forgotten who it was that reneged at the last second on a deal to get back to the assembly? As far as I'm concerned, not voting for SF for that reason is naively punishing SF for the DUP's intransigence.

People looking more at the consequences of Stormont not sitting rather than the reason for its collapse.

Remember SF and DUP donít need to change or compromise. We just need to vote for different parties
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 03, 2019, 09:20:45 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

The key word is ďopenlyĒ
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 03, 2019, 09:33:27 PM
Labour are being hit because they haven't come out in favour of a second  referendum

Where Labour not hit for not the opposite reason. Looking at the districts where their vote fell it was hardly to do with not backing a second referendum

In this day and age - with all the communication and processing capabilities - ye'd think we can do better than guessing what the majority wants based on what is or isn't on a manifesto.

But yay for representative democracy.  ::)
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 03, 2019, 09:41:56 PM
"The DUP's first openly-gay candidate Alison Bennington has polled well in Antrim and Newtownabbey"

WTF.

The key word is ďopenlyĒ

Name names!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Sportacus on May 03, 2019, 09:51:37 PM
This is turning into a very interesting set of results.  Alliance already have enough gains to illustrate that a growing number of people wonít settle for paralysis.  They might even break through in Lurgan!  In fact there are several mini earthquakes in ABC.  UUP might be the big loser.  DUP have their base and have hung in well despite all their nastiness.  SF tried to bag some extra seats and it remains to be seen if it worked overall when the final votes are counted, but tonight they must be secretly disappointed because they havenít really had a big moment today.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 03, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
This is turning into a very interesting set of results.  Alliance already have enough gains to illustrate that a growing number of people wonít settle for paralysis.  They might even break through in Lurgan!  In fact there are several mini earthquakes in ABC.  UUP might be the big loser.  DUP have their base and have hung in well despite all their nastiness.  SF tried to bag some extra seats and it remains to be seen if it worked overall when the final votes are counted, but tonight they must be secretly disappointed because they havenít really had a big moment today.
Seems the SDLP took one off the UUP which is a bit of a coup round Portydown.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 03, 2019, 10:56:14 PM
DUP candidate left count centre crying because he didnít get re-elected. Hahaha
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 04, 2019, 08:33:32 AM
DUP candidate left count centre crying because he didnít get re-elected. Hahaha

Which one??
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 04, 2019, 08:40:47 AM
Fergal Lennon of Aontķ eliminated on the first count in the ABC council area. Looks like mandatory mass attendance and anti-abortion hardline attitudes aren't a winning formula.

They've done ok, took a seat off SF in Derry on day 1, probably be one or two more today. Its a decent place to be starting from for next time.
Where in their literature does it mention mandatory mass attendance?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2019, 08:59:50 AM
Unionists will have to change their Ďno Pope hereí tune in ABC😂
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 04, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Unionism headed for under 50% of council seats across the wee 6 for the first time in its history. Alliance are grabbing seats from them left right and centre. Another watershed election.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 04, 2019, 09:08:16 AM
DUP candidate left count centre crying because he didnít get re-elected. Hahaha

Which one??
https://www.lurganmail.co.uk/news/politics/dup-man-who-made-offensive-mong-remarks-fails-to-get-re-elected-to-abc-council-1-8915326/amp
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 04, 2019, 10:21:11 AM
Every party will take positives from council elections. SF and DUP will point to gains while at the same time suffering losses in certain areas.

SDLP have got gains, mixed with losses so Eastwood will be happy.  Something to build on especially in Nth. Belfast and Derry area.  They want the Westminister seat back and this election will boost them.

Alliance, who are transfer friendly, are getting huge numbers of first preferences which enable them to be in the running for final seats.  Showing well West of the Bann which is crucial for their growth.  Similar to their 'sister' party across the water - big performance.  The question is: Is it a protest vote? Time will tell.

Independents are going well - especially in locals.  Different type of election.  All politics are local and all that.  Kerr got a huge vote in Torrent.  Independents keep the major parties honest.

Aontķ: First time out.  Be happy to get a seat in Derry. Mc Closkey has run a few times, under different guises and is a good candidate. Well respected in Shantallow area.  In other areas, they'll be very disappointed.  Be interesting to see how Brolly does in Limavady area.  Problem for Aontķ is people maybe think they are some sort of dissident outfit with the name etc.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: stiffler on May 04, 2019, 10:52:08 AM
ABC council finished :

DUP - down 2
UUP - down 2
UKIP - down 1

SF - up 2
Alliance - up 3

Big loss for unionism in what was previously considered a stronghold.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: tintin25 on May 04, 2019, 11:48:06 AM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: giveherlong on May 04, 2019, 01:09:47 PM
72% turnout in Greencastle

How will the local independent candidate do?

Hopeful

897 fist preference votes for McAleer
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kidder81 on May 04, 2019, 01:46:24 PM
72% turnout in Greencastle

How will the local independent candidate do?

Hopeful

897 fist preference votes for McAleer

Paul Berry?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 04, 2019, 01:53:25 PM
72% turnout in Greencastle

How will the local independent candidate do?

Hopeful

897 fist preference votes for McAleer

He should be transfer friendly.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 04, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
ABC council finished :

DUP - down 2
UUP - down 2
UKIP - down 1

SF - up 2
Alliance - up 3

Big loss for unionism in what was previously considered a stronghold.

Big change. If there is anything like that next time, the unionists would not have a majority and it would be like Belfast.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: BennyCake on May 04, 2019, 02:58:52 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

Aye because theyíre sick of the SF bullshitters
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: tintin25 on May 04, 2019, 03:11:55 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

Aye because theyíre sick of the SF bullshitters

Indeed!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 04, 2019, 03:55:08 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 04, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
Final First Preference Votes #LE19 in Northern Ireland
DUP 24.1%
SF 23.2%
UUP 14.1%
SDLP 12%
APNI 11.5%
TUV 2.2%
GRN 2.1%
PBPA 1.4%
AONT 1.1%
PUP 0.8%
UKIP 0.4%
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 04, 2019, 04:49:54 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 04, 2019, 05:05:46 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 04, 2019, 06:23:11 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 04, 2019, 06:30:52 PM
0.9% between the 'big two'. That 1.1% Aontķ got is the difference.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 04, 2019, 09:07:48 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.

in the local elections, the UU got more than Alliance or SDLP
A few might choose to vote Alliance for the Euro election, but Alliance are not prominent in agricultural matters.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 10:17:15 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

+1
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: LooseCannon on May 04, 2019, 10:35:28 PM
0.9% between the 'big two'. That 1.1% Aontķ got is the difference.
A guy on Twitter had a look at it. They took more votes from the SDLP than the shinners.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:15:26 PM
The final overall results:


Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 04, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
In a strange way, every party will be happy!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 04, 2019, 11:25:12 PM
Doubt if Ulster Unionists will be...significant losses & all but wiped out in Belfast. Glad to see Jim Allister doing badly too.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:43:36 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:44:39 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:45:18 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:46:19 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:47:35 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:48:35 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:49:10 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:49:46 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:50:30 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:51:12 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2019, 11:51:48 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 05, 2019, 07:22:40 AM
No real change overall.....NI politics still green or orange.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 07:49:46 AM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

Itís quite simple. If SF and DUP gobble up a seat who stands the best chance of pulling together remain voters from a unionist and nationalist background? Who can pull together the voters who couldnít stomach voting SF or DUP.  Jane Morrice could throw a spanner in the works but the Alliance momentum should see that off.

Moderate nationalists at least have the reassurance that moderate unionists are already looking towards Alliance and Danny Kennedy is hardly going to reverse that trend
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 07:55:36 AM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.

in the local elections, the UU got more than Alliance or SDLP
A few might choose to vote Alliance for the Euro election, but Alliance are not prominent in agricultural matters.

It isnít all about Agriculture. What does Bomber Anderson know about farming?

More to the point why would anyone vote for Anderson? Can you honestly point to 1 one way in which Anderson could articulate or has articulated the views of the people of NI better than say Naomi Long?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 07:59:07 AM
Doubt if Ulster Unionists will be...significant losses & all but wiped out in Belfast. Glad to see Jim Allister doing badly too.

Neither of those 2 could be happy. Mind you TUV got an 18 year old councillor elected. The fact that an 18 year old would even consider voting for Jimboís insanity collective is bad enough but to stand and win shows how much further we have to go
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 08:03:24 AM



D-
Must do better
Could do better
Holding back and setting a poor example to the rest of the class
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 08:10:41 AM
No real change overall.....NI politics still green or orange.

But a wee bit less so and the direction of travel is in the right direction.

UUP teetering. Alliance the obvious destination for unionists with a pro remain, generally progressive outlook and or tired of the incompetence and inertia of DUP.

Sdlp giving one last stand but ultimately going to get squeezed between the SF machine and the catholic taliban. When that happens Alliance is the natural destination.

If NI can build a powerful alternative to SF/DUP ineptitude then those 2 parties can be held to account.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 05, 2019, 08:21:26 AM
On the basis of those results, should SF drop their ongoing call for a border poll?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2019, 08:59:56 AM
In a strange way, every party will be happy!!

Very few happy.

Alliance, Greens, PBP and some independents will be happy.

DUP will be concerned about Alliance gains at their expense. Liberal wing particularly so and blaming Wells and friends. Internal strife on how to move forward to be only unionist party.

TUV Largely decimated with a couple of pockets of resistance left. Only Allister in EU election to keep them on life support.

So many sitting councillors were dumped out either by electorate or party vote management. Leaves quite a few disgruntled party members and friends to cause issues in the bigger parties.

SF will spin the status quo as a win but failed to take out the irritant of PBP who bit back. Seriously lost Derry where future assembly and general elections will be a worry  and made no gains in BCC. Had predictions of levelling with DUP but standing still was never in the plan.

UUP took a serious hammering. Liberal unionists leaked away as Swann moved to DUP lite and back in time to his heroes in Chichester-Clarke and Faulkner. Great to see Hatch, McGimpsey, etc being thrown out. Like DUP expect serious internal strife, not knowing which way to go with both DUP and Alliance eating in to traditional electorate.

SDLP already knew the losses to expect where defections had occurred since 2014. Dealt with well in BCC but not well in other areas. Serious failure in F&O.  Derry being hauled back from SF will be a plus but defections by electorate to Alliance now a battle on a second front a major worry. FF factor seems not to have been a major problem. EU election will be true examination with the Alliance momentum and Long factor a worry for Eastwood.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2019, 09:11:52 AM
No real change overall.....NI politics still green or orange.

But a wee bit less so and the direction of travel is in the right direction.

UUP teetering. Alliance the obvious destination for unionists with a pro remain, generally progressive outlook and or tired of the incompetence and inertia of DUP.

Sdlp giving one last stand but ultimately going to get squeezed between the SF machine and the catholic taliban. When that happens Alliance is the natural destination.

If NI can build a powerful alternative to SF/DUP ineptitude then those 2 parties can be held to account.

The true test for emerging middle will be whether they can:

1. Bring out the lost voters who left SDLP and UUP because of their failure to challenge SF and DUP in being winners but now can see a glimmer of hope for change.

2. Present themselves as a force working together but with own identities. Transfers are vital between like minded groupings.

3. Learn from SF and DUP to persuade moderates to lend them their votes to halt the stagnation caused by DUP and SF.

Can the Greens tap into momentum for environmental change and bring the younger voters to themselves not just in the East?

They will need another election in the next year or so to maintain momentum. Will possibly get it with a general election always a possibility.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 05, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.

in the local elections, the UU got more than Alliance or SDLP
A few might choose to vote Alliance for the Euro election, but Alliance are not prominent in agricultural matters.

It isnít all about Agriculture. What does Bomber Anderson know about farming?

More to the point why would anyone vote for Anderson? Can you honestly point to 1 one way in which Anderson could articulate or has articulated the views of the people of NI better than say Naomi Long?

She has been excellent in Europe as a rep.  Articulated well that the north voted to stay in the EU.  You need to take the blinkers off - she has been the only one stating the case to stay in the EU. 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 11:44:44 AM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.

in the local elections, the UU got more than Alliance or SDLP
A few might choose to vote Alliance for the Euro election, but Alliance are not prominent in agricultural matters.

It isnít all about Agriculture. What does Bomber Anderson know about farming?

More to the point why would anyone vote for Anderson? Can you honestly point to 1 one way in which Anderson could articulate or has articulated the views of the people of NI better than say Naomi Long?

She has been excellent in Europe as a rep.  Articulated well that the north voted to stay in the EU.  You need to take the blinkers off - she has been the only one stating the case to stay in the EU.

How are you defining excellence there?

Is there something in her voting record, speeches to the parliament or influence that she is bringing to bear that you can point to? Or is it just your own blinkered vision?

She is only attempting to pitch the remain side because the other 2 are leavers (you must venerate Sylvia Hermon) but the question is how well does she do it and influence does she have?

You cannot credibly argue that she has the competence or articulacy of Long?? That would be the definition of blinkered
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 11:48:33 AM
No real change overall.....NI politics still green or orange.

But a wee bit less so and the direction of travel is in the right direction.

UUP teetering. Alliance the obvious destination for unionists with a pro remain, generally progressive outlook and or tired of the incompetence and inertia of DUP.

Sdlp giving one last stand but ultimately going to get squeezed between the SF machine and the catholic taliban. When that happens Alliance is the natural destination.

If NI can build a powerful alternative to SF/DUP ineptitude then those 2 parties can be held to account.

The true test for emerging middle will be whether they can:

1. Bring out the lost voters who left SDLP and UUP because of their failure to challenge SF and DUP in being winners but now can see a glimmer of hope for change.

2. Present themselves as a force working together but with own identities. Transfers are vital between like minded groupings.

3. Learn from SF and DUP to persuade moderates to lend them their votes to halt the stagnation caused by DUP and SF.

Can the Greens tap into momentum for environmental change and bring the younger voters to themselves not just in the East?

They will need another election in the next year or so to maintain momentum. Will possibly get it with a general election always a possibility.

The European elections (if they go ahead) will be another test. Unless you are a hardcore leaver it would be brainless to not vote Alliance No1
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2019, 11:50:30 AM
Why so?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2019, 12:14:25 PM
No real change overall.....NI politics still green or orange.

But a wee bit less so and the direction of travel is in the right direction.

UUP teetering. Alliance the obvious destination for unionists with a pro remain, generally progressive outlook and or tired of the incompetence and inertia of DUP.

Sdlp giving one last stand but ultimately going to get squeezed between the SF machine and the catholic taliban. When that happens Alliance is the natural destination.

If NI can build a powerful alternative to SF/DUP ineptitude then those 2 parties can be held to account.

The true test for emerging middle will be whether they can:

1. Bring out the lost voters who left SDLP and UUP because of their failure to challenge SF and DUP in being winners but now can see a glimmer of hope for change.

2. Present themselves as a force working together but with own identities. Transfers are vital between like minded groupings.

3. Learn from SF and DUP to persuade moderates to lend them their votes to halt the stagnation caused by DUP and SF.

Can the Greens tap into momentum for environmental change and bring the younger voters to themselves not just in the East?

They will need another election in the next year or so to maintain momentum. Will possibly get it with a general election always a possibility.

The European elections (if they go ahead) will be another test. Unless you are a hardcore leaver it would be brainless to not vote Alliance No1

+1
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 12:26:40 PM
Why so?

Very simple. Look at the candidates. Judge them on ability. If you think Danny Kennedy represents remain or that Eastwood or Anderson is more capable than Long then you are engaged in an act of self delusion
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 05, 2019, 12:43:51 PM
Why so?

Very simple. Look at the candidates. Judge them on ability. If you think Danny Kennedy represents remain or that Eastwood or Anderson is more capable than Long then you are engaged in an act of self delusion

Jeez are you in the Alliance or something? I like Long but she only looks good because most of the rest are so bad. Eastwood is as good and as articulate and Anderson believe it or not is quite well respected in  many other countries maybe when the sound is off and the message is dubbed in another language she is actually ok😀
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 05, 2019, 03:25:52 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.

in the local elections, the UU got more than Alliance or SDLP
A few might choose to vote Alliance for the Euro election, but Alliance are not prominent in agricultural matters.

It isnít all about Agriculture. What does Bomber Anderson know about farming?

More to the point why would anyone vote for Anderson? Can you honestly point to 1 one way in which Anderson could articulate or has articulated the views of the people of NI better than say Naomi Long?

She has been excellent in Europe as a rep.  Articulated well that the north voted to stay in the EU.  You need to take the blinkers off - she has been the only one stating the case to stay in the EU.

How are you defining excellence there?

Is there something in her voting record, speeches to the parliament or influence that she is bringing to bear that you can point to? Or is it just your own blinkered vision?

She is only attempting to pitch the remain side because the other 2 are leavers (you must venerate Sylvia Hermon) but the question is how well does she do it and influence does she have?

You cannot credibly argue that she has the competence or articulacy of Long?? That would be the definition of blinkered

Long's not there so she's no good watching on from sideline - no good saying she'd be more articulate, she'd be more this or that.

Hurlers on the ditch are not much use in Europe.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 05, 2019, 03:32:22 PM
Why so?

Very simple. Look at the candidates. Judge them on ability. If you think Danny Kennedy represents remain or that Eastwood or Anderson is more capable than Long then you are engaged in an act of self delusion

You're getting carried away with Alliance's results yesterday a chara.  Settle!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 05, 2019, 05:01:29 PM
SDLP already knew the losses to expect where defections had occurred since 2014. Dealt with well in BCC but not well in other areas. Serious failure in F&O.  Derry being hauled back from SF will be a plus but defections by electorate to Alliance now a battle on a second front a major worry. FF factor seems not to have been a major problem. EU election will be true examination with the Alliance momentum and Long factor a worry for Eastwood.

The SDLP performance in the old Omagh DC area was a disaster. Back in 2014 they had four elected in the area out of eight in total for FODC. Since then however three of them left the party over various issues. This time they stood two candidates in Omagh town, one in Mid-Tyrone and one in West Tyrone and they only got one elected, Mary Garrity retaining her seat in West Tyrone. Rosemary Shields was the SDLP rep in Mid-Tyrone, but left several months ago to join Aontu fighting to retain her seat on their ticket but lost out, while the sole SDLP candidate (Bernard McGrath) also failed to keep party representation there.

Omagh town having no longer any SDLP councillors is a calamity for them. They had two back in 2014, Josephine Deehan and Joanne Donnelly, but both left the party not long after. Deehan has a good personal vote that took her over the line to retain her seat as an independent this time, but Donnelly lost hers. The SDLP fielded two fairly young & rather unknown candidates with neither succeeding. It's a major downfall for a party whom only one to two generations ago could have counted Omagh as a stronghold, but the problems locally in the party have been running for decades now with numerous elected party reps leaving the party whilst in office. Had they just ran one candidate in the town this time they might have had an outside chance of sneaking in, but it would not have surprised me if ego was again a problem in doing this. It's one place where Colum Eastwood needs to look at getting sorted sooner rather than later otherwise his party is going to become an irrelevance in what is the second largest population centre west of the Bann.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 05:02:12 PM
Glad to see Alliance do well. I reckon a sizeable number of Catholics are starting to vote for them too.

It's been known for quite some time more Catholics than protestants vote alliance about 5 years ago a poll had it at 4 out of every 7

The test will be in the Euro elections in a few weeks - do they give their first preference to SDLP or Alliance?

There is a case for tactical voting for Alliance. If the SDLP are eliminated first, then Alliance would get transfers to pass the UU. If Alliance are eliminated first perhaps a third of the transfers might go to the UU and the UU might make it.

Two nationalist candidates getting elected would not really represent things; one unionist, one Alliance and one nationalist would be a fair representation of things.

Without Jim Nicholson this time and the UUP losses, I don't think the electorate will be enticed to vote the UUP.

in the local elections, the UU got more than Alliance or SDLP
A few might choose to vote Alliance for the Euro election, but Alliance are not prominent in agricultural matters.

It isnít all about Agriculture. What does Bomber Anderson know about farming?

More to the point why would anyone vote for Anderson? Can you honestly point to 1 one way in which Anderson could articulate or has articulated the views of the people of NI better than say Naomi Long?

She has been excellent in Europe as a rep.  Articulated well that the north voted to stay in the EU.  You need to take the blinkers off - she has been the only one stating the case to stay in the EU.

How are you defining excellence there?

Is there something in her voting record, speeches to the parliament or influence that she is bringing to bear that you can point to? Or is it just your own blinkered vision?

She is only attempting to pitch the remain side because the other 2 are leavers (you must venerate Sylvia Hermon) but the question is how well does she do it and influence does she have?

You cannot credibly argue that she has the competence or articulacy of Long?? That would be the definition of blinkered

Long's not there so she's no good watching on from sideline - no good saying she'd be more articulate, she'd be more this or that.

Hurlers on the ditch are not much use in Europe.

I assume you yourself worked out the complete stupidity of that line of argument and only posted it as a misguided attempt at humour
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 05:07:14 PM
Why so?

Very simple. Look at the candidates. Judge them on ability. If you think Danny Kennedy represents remain or that Eastwood or Anderson is more capable than Long then you are engaged in an act of self delusion

Jeez are you in the Alliance or something? I like Long but she only looks good because most of the rest are so bad. Eastwood is as good and as articulate and Anderson believe it or not is quite well respected in  many other countries maybe when the sound is off and the message is dubbed in another language she is actually ok😀

Voting for one candidate because they look better than the others due to the fact that they are in fact better than the others seems logical enough

What evidence is there that Anderson is respected? My understanding is that the bloc she is attached to donít use her for any key responsibilities. Even on the Irish border issue they give her no role and she has to wait her slot in the speaking rounds
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 05:10:11 PM
Why so?

Very simple. Look at the candidates. Judge them on ability. If you think Danny Kennedy represents remain or that Eastwood or Anderson is more capable than Long then you are engaged in an act of self delusion

You're getting carried away with Alliance's results yesterday a chara.  Settle!

Not getting carried away. There is a long way to go.

But ther is a bit of momentum and a vastly superior candidate. Anderson and Dodds might appear shoe ins but they are exceptionally poor candidates. In no other country or region could they even dream of being elected
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
Eastwood could do a fine job, but Long is more likely to be elected.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2019, 06:17:13 PM
Eastwood could do a fine job, but Long is more likely to be elected.

Long will get transfers from many of the other candidates.  Eastwood wouldn't get many from SF and none from unionists. The race will be to be for the third place and then await transfers as the bottom candidates are eliminated.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 08:15:53 PM
Eastwood could do a fine job, but Long is more likely to be elected.

Long will get transfers from many of the other candidates.  Eastwood wouldn't get many from SF and none from unionists. The race will be to be for the third place and then await transfers as the bottom candidates are eliminated.

I think you are correct. Under previous management UUP offered the hand of friendship to SDLP. Young Colm rejected it. His entitlement to the benefit of the doubt was zeroised at that point. The 3rd seat absolutely needs unionists votes. Eastwood wonít get them. Any vote for Colm is a vote for someone 100% guaranteed not to get elected. Fact
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 05, 2019, 08:33:28 PM
My transfer will be going to alliance now I think after the antics of the sdlp ones in ballymena when SFs Patrice hardy was eliminated. Plus I really believe Naomi will outpoll Colm and thus has a better chance of getting the 3rd seat.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Angelo on May 05, 2019, 08:36:35 PM
Stoops little merger with FF doesn't seem to have worked like they would have hoped. They are dead in the water.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: uimhr ocht on May 05, 2019, 08:41:00 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 05, 2019, 08:43:36 PM
What was the crack with Claire Hanna standing beside her SDLP hubby for a pic, when he got re-elected? Can she not make up her mind whether she's in or out?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 09:09:59 PM
What was the crack with Claire Hanna standing beside her SDLP hubby for a pic, when he got re-elected? Can she not make up her mind whether she's in or out?
Claire decided she quite liked her husband and wanted to support him. Iím with you on this. Itís hugely controversial
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 09:11:02 PM
My transfer will be going to alliance now I think after the antics of the sdlp ones in ballymena when SFs Patrice hardy was eliminated. Plus I really believe Naomi will outpoll Colm and thus has a better chance of getting the 3rd seat.
[/quote.]

Who is your first preference for and why?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2019, 09:12:06 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?
I'd imagine they'd take no position on it and would let their members vote as they see fit.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 09:13:13 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?

Some Alliance members would vote for the Union. Some would vote for UI. Likewise some voters will vote for the Union and some for UI. It will confuse only the simplest of minds
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2019, 09:24:36 PM
What was the crack with Claire Hanna standing beside her SDLP hubby for a pic, when he got re-elected? Can she not make up her mind whether she's in or out?

Claire Hanna is still an SDLP member and campaigned in the local elections for SDLP candidates.  She resigned from her spokesperson role but did not quit as an SDLP MLA.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2019, 09:30:42 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?

Some Alliance members would vote for the Union. Some would vote for UI. Likewise some voters will vote for the Union and some for UI. It will confuse only the simplest of minds

In the same way that some SF and SDLP members and voters will vote for a UI and some will not even though both parties have policies to have a UI.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: charlieTully on May 05, 2019, 09:40:50 PM



The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?


Some Alliance members would vote for the Union. Some would vote for UI. Likewise some voters will vote for the Union and some for UI. It will confuse only the simplest of minds

Is Naomi a good ride?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: hardstation on May 05, 2019, 10:04:13 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?

Some Alliance members would vote for the Union. Some would vote for UI. Likewise some voters will vote for the Union and some for UI. It will confuse only the simplest of minds
Spare us the sanctimony. It doesnít help you.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 05, 2019, 10:38:57 PM
What was the crack with Claire Hanna standing beside her SDLP hubby for a pic, when he got re-elected? Can she not make up her mind whether she's in or out?

Claire Hanna is still an SDLP member and campaigned in the local elections for SDLP candidates.  She resigned from her spokesperson role but did not quit as an SDLP MLA.

Doesn't attend party group meetings - is that not the case? So it's up for debate as to exactly what her status is. Looks like she resigned from the Assembly Group,  but remains an ordinary party member. Confusing to say the least.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: hardstation on May 05, 2019, 10:41:51 PM
Sheís still married to her husband?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 05, 2019, 10:42:20 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?

Some Alliance members would vote for the Union. Some would vote for UI. Likewise some voters will vote for the Union and some for UI. It will confuse only the simplest of minds

In the same way that some SF and SDLP members and voters will vote for a UI and some will not even though both parties have policies to have a UI.

Same as FF and FG voters down here even though both espouse the unity of Ireland somewhere in their officialdom.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 05, 2019, 10:54:13 PM
The true colours of alliance neutrality would come if there was a border poll they claim to be remainers so would they campaign to stay in eu as part of an all ireland?

Some Alliance members would vote for the Union. Some would vote for UI. Likewise some voters will vote for the Union and some for UI. It will confuse only the simplest of minds
Spare us the sanctimony. It doesnít help you.

Sanctimony? I merely react to the ďtrue coloursĒ comment and this idiocy that it is constitutional position first and good governance and the people second

And then look at Charlietullyís post. You see what we are up against?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: hardstation on May 05, 2019, 11:00:45 PM
Yes. Sanctimony has been dripping off every one of your posts.

People will vote as they like, regardless of what you reckon to be ďthe only way a sane person would voteĒ.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 05, 2019, 11:12:24 PM
Yes. Sanctimony has been dripping off every one of your posts.

People will vote as they like, regardless of what you reckon to be ďthe only way a sane person would voteĒ.

Well said Hard Station.

People won't be lectured.  This carry on is putting me off giving Alliance a preference in Euros.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 06, 2019, 06:07:55 PM
Yes. Sanctimony has been dripping off every one of your posts.

People will vote as they like, regardless of what you reckon to be ďthe only way a sane person would voteĒ.

Well said Hard Station.

People won't be lectured.  This carry on is putting me off giving Alliance a preference in Euros.

People will vote as they see fit. Nothing wrong with a discussion forum exploring the reasons for voting in a particular way.

Martyís claim that my posts would make him not transfer to Alliance is, well humorous in the extreme.

I find it extremely difficult to get SF representatives to address certain key points. On this forum itís extremely difficult to get certain posters to engage truthfully on the same points.

Say for example Martyís claim that Martina Anderson was an excellent representative and his subsequent evasion of the point. The point that Andersonís articulacy cannot be tested against Longís because Anderson is an MEP and Long isnít is staggering in its stupidity. Calling out that stupidity is not sanctimony on my part.

On another thread I challenged the false notion (peddled by SF) that a UI would be a unitary state with no power sharing in NI. Throw that one in and some posters flee. Again very similar to the official SF tactic.

Ask for evidence of SFís record of delivery in government? All goes quiet.

Why does everything have to be viewed through SF vs DUP and which one backs down to the others demands first? We donít have to have either party if the electorate move on from them. Letís get on with it. We arenít getting anything from hanging around waiting on them to grow up.

And then we have Martyís classic- make up something that I didnít say and then dismiss it as ďwaffleĒ. Have you ever seen anything as stupid??
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Sportacus on May 06, 2019, 09:15:52 PM
Naomi Long in with a shot now of the 3rd MEP seat.  Iíd love to see the Council election votes broken down by age.  Wouldnít be surprised if a lot of first time voters went for Alliance, Greens etc because the old bitter divisions isnít how they want to live their lives.  Wake up call for SF - took a stance on rights - fair play, but they need to figure this one out quickly.  In many ways the DUP are the millstone round their neck, just a zero sum.  But the new talks gives them a chance to get something moving again.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2019, 09:26:41 PM
I think that election gives a glimmer of hope for south Belfast too in terms of assembly elections.No way should a duper be in in south Belfast. Sf are never going to get it and sdlp  have gone to the dogs so at least alliance may claw it away.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 06, 2019, 10:49:38 PM
I think that election gives a glimmer of hope for south Belfast too in terms of assembly elections.No way should a duper be in in south Belfast. Sf are never going to get it and sdlp  have gone to the dogs so at least alliance may claw it away.

Westminster you mean? Claire Hannah if chosen would be a much better option than Paula Bradshaw. The Alliance party are ok but let's not get carried away with them. When Anna Lo went solo just before the last euro elections about UI and NI being a colony a number in the party shat themselves and were not too pleased a rather wishy-washy statement from Forde and Long followed and they felt the need to point out that they were pro status quo.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 06, 2019, 11:03:51 PM

Michelle OíNeill
@moneillsf

5h
Spoke with Karen Bradey this aínoon regarding City Deal for Derry & Strabane. This is much needed investment in the northwest and alongside investment in other projects such as the Ulster University including the medical school are vital to building a strong & vibrant community.

What could possibly have brought Derry to Michelle's attention I wonder?  :P
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rois on May 07, 2019, 06:50:26 AM

Michelle OíNeill
@moneillsf

5h
Spoke with Karen Bradey this aínoon regarding City Deal for Derry & Strabane. This is much needed investment in the northwest and alongside investment in other projects such as the Ulster University including the medical school are vital to building a strong & vibrant community.

What could possibly have brought Derry to Michelle's attention I wonder?  :P
And Colum Eastwood:
Been speaking to the British government over the last couple of days to ensure a City Deal is delivered for Derry. Really important that the investment is big enough to make a difference. Magee needs to be expanded. We also need match funding from Stormont. We need a government.

Both statements within 12 hrs of Karen Bradley announcing Derryís city deal...coincidence??

I wonder how much Strabane will see of it.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 07, 2019, 08:32:03 AM
A good slice of it....Daniel McCrossan will deliver.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 07, 2019, 12:39:25 PM
I think that election gives a glimmer of hope for south Belfast too in terms of assembly elections.No way should a duper be in in south Belfast. Sf are never going to get it and sdlp  have gone to the dogs so at least alliance may claw it away.

Westminster you mean? Claire Hannah if chosen would be a much better option than Paula Bradshaw. The Alliance party are ok but let's not get carried away with them. When Anna Lo went solo just before the last euro elections about UI and NI being a colony a number in the party shat themselves and were not too pleased a rather wishy-washy statement from Forde and Long followed and they felt the need to point out that they were pro status quo.

Agree with you on Hanna vs Bradshaw. Though that point could be made for Hanna vs anyone.

On Alliance I would make 2 points.

Firstly Alliance are not aligned to Unionism or Nationalism today. Party members are free to choose
Secondly and far more importantly to assess Alliance on whether it is Unionist or Nationalist is to completely miss the point. The old story that you cannot be an atheist in NI, you have to be a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist springs to mind
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kidder81 on May 07, 2019, 01:03:44 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kickham csc on May 07, 2019, 01:33:20 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?

Genuine question. Are we being unfair here. NI is in the middle of a major change management program, that will last up to 50 / 75 years. One part of this change process is to ensure that impacted / target groups are brought along with the change in order to prevent them rejected the change.

The appropriate question is not one of funnelling monies to their mates, but rather how successful are Sinn Fein and the DUP in bringing impacted communities along the change management journey?

Additionally,  how well are both groups investing monies to enable that journey?

The larger community might not appreciate this activity, but if money is being invested to ensure the PP lasts, should both parties be criticised for managing the process.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: charlieTully on May 07, 2019, 01:56:53 PM
I think that election gives a glimmer of hope for south Belfast too in terms of assembly elections.No way should a duper be in in south Belfast. Sf are never going to get it and sdlp  have gone to the dogs so at least alliance may claw it away.

Westminster you mean? Claire Hannah if chosen would be a much better option than Paula Bradshaw. The Alliance party are ok but let's not get carried away with them. When Anna Lo went solo just before the last euro elections about UI and NI being a colony a number in the party shat themselves and were not too pleased a rather wishy-washy statement from Forde and Long followed and they felt the need to point out that they were pro status quo.

Agree with you on Hanna vs Bradshaw. Though that point could be made for Hanna vs anyone.

On Alliance I would make 2 points.

Firstly Alliance are not aligned to Unionism or Nationalism today. Party members are free to choose
Secondly and far more importantly to assess Alliance on whether it is Unionist or Nationalist is to completely miss the point. The old story that you cannot be an atheist in NI, you have to be a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist springs to mind


Are you a member of the alliance party by any chance?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2019, 02:06:03 PM
Amanda Ferguson
@AmandaFBelfast

Could we all get real here. The rest of Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales have same-sex civil marriage, abortion access, legal language protection. Which of these should British and Irish citizens in the north/Northern Ireland not have? This position is simply not sustainable.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 07, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
Yes. Sanctimony has been dripping off every one of your posts.

People will vote as they like, regardless of what you reckon to be ďthe only way a sane person would voteĒ.

Well said Hard Station.

People won't be lectured.  This carry on is putting me off giving Alliance a preference in Euros.

People will vote as they see fit. Nothing wrong with a discussion forum exploring the reasons for voting in a particular way.

Martyís claim that my posts would make him not transfer to Alliance is, well humorous in the extreme.

I find it extremely difficult to get SF representatives to address certain key points. On this forum itís extremely difficult to get certain posters to engage truthfully on the same points.

Say for example Martyís claim that Martina Anderson was an excellent representative and his subsequent evasion of the point. The point that Andersonís articulacy cannot be tested against Longís because Anderson is an MEP and Long isnít is staggering in its stupidity. Calling out that stupidity is not sanctimony on my part.

On another thread I challenged the false notion (peddled by SF) that a UI would be a unitary state with no power sharing in NI. Throw that one in and some posters flee. Again very similar to the official SF tactic.

Ask for evidence of SFís record of delivery in government? All goes quiet.

Why does everything have to be viewed through SF vs DUP and which one backs down to the others demands first? We donít have to have either party if the electorate move on from them. Letís get on with it. We arenít getting anything from hanging around waiting on them to grow up.

And then we have Martyís classic- make up something that I didnít say and then dismiss it as ďwaffleĒ. Have you ever seen anything as stupid??

This is a pretty good analysis of what it's like to challenge the SF supporters on this board.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 07, 2019, 02:31:15 PM
I think that election gives a glimmer of hope for south Belfast too in terms of assembly elections.No way should a duper be in in south Belfast. Sf are never going to get it and sdlp  have gone to the dogs so at least alliance may claw it away.

Westminster you mean? Claire Hannah if chosen would be a much better option than Paula Bradshaw. The Alliance party are ok but let's not get carried away with them. When Anna Lo went solo just before the last euro elections about UI and NI being a colony a number in the party shat themselves and were not too pleased a rather wishy-washy statement from Forde and Long followed and they felt the need to point out that they were pro status quo.

Agree with you on Hanna vs Bradshaw. Though that point could be made for Hanna vs anyone.

On Alliance I would make 2 points.

Firstly Alliance are not aligned to Unionism or Nationalism today. Party members are free to choose
Secondly and far more importantly to assess Alliance on whether it is Unionist or Nationalist is to completely miss the point. The old story that you cannot be an atheist in NI, you have to be a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist springs to mind


Are you a member of the alliance party by any chance?

No Iím not an Alliance member
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 07, 2019, 04:35:13 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?

Genuine question. Are we being unfair here. NI is in the middle of a major change management program, that will last up to 50 / 75 years. One part of this change process is to ensure that impacted / target groups are brought along with the change in order to prevent them rejected the change.

The appropriate question is not one of funnelling monies to their mates, but rather how successful are Sinn Fein and the DUP in bringing impacted communities along the change management journey?

Additionally,  how well are both groups investing monies to enable that journey?

The larger community might not appreciate this activity, but if money is being invested to ensure the PP lasts, should both parties be criticised for managing the process.

DUP ex-SpAD was on tv the other day about this funny enough.  Some 'commentator' was saying DUP/SF don't work together and everyone else complains whereas if they work together re: funding for Fťile and bonfires, then it's a 'carve up'.  He said they can't win.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 07, 2019, 05:05:56 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?

Genuine question. Are we being unfair here. NI is in the middle of a major change management program, that will last up to 50 / 75 years. One part of this change process is to ensure that impacted / target groups are brought along with the change in order to prevent them rejected the change.

The appropriate question is not one of funnelling monies to their mates, but rather how successful are Sinn Fein and the DUP in bringing impacted communities along the change management journey?

Additionally,  how well are both groups investing monies to enable that journey?

The larger community might not appreciate this activity, but if money is being invested to ensure the PP lasts, should both parties be criticised for managing the process.

DUP ex-SpAD was on tv the other day about this funny enough.  Some 'commentator' was saying DUP/SF don't work together and everyone else complains whereas if they work together re: funding for Fťile and bonfires, then it's a 'carve up'.  He said they can't win.

Bonfires and Fťile's should always be top of the pile when doling out money.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 07, 2019, 05:15:09 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?

Genuine question. Are we being unfair here. NI is in the middle of a major change management program, that will last up to 50 / 75 years. One part of this change process is to ensure that impacted / target groups are brought along with the change in order to prevent them rejected the change.

The appropriate question is not one of funnelling monies to their mates, but rather how successful are Sinn Fein and the DUP in bringing impacted communities along the change management journey?

Additionally,  how well are both groups investing monies to enable that journey?

The larger community might not appreciate this activity, but if money is being invested to ensure the PP lasts, should both parties be criticised for managing the process.

DUP ex-SpAD was on tv the other day about this funny enough.  Some 'commentator' was saying DUP/SF don't work together and everyone else complains whereas if they work together re: funding for Fťile and bonfires, then it's a 'carve up'.  He said they can't win.

Agree to an extent.  It's a sure sign of someone who can't think for themselves when they start to introduce these common waffle terms like 'carve-up' and 'shinnerbot'.  However, I do think there's a point here.  Why could SF and the DUP manage to work together on these issues (distributing funds directly to their support bases) but can't seem to on other, more pressing issues?

I'm not saying it's all their fault either.  I could imagine that the DUP are a lot more prone to making an agreement when they know that by doing so, they'll be given wads of cash to dish out to their mates.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kidder81 on May 07, 2019, 05:27:03 PM
Amanda Ferguson
@AmandaFBelfast

Could we all get real here. The rest of Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales have same-sex civil marriage, abortion access, legal language protection. Which of these should British and Irish citizens in the north/Northern Ireland not have? This position is simply not sustainable.

Who is Amanda Ferguson ?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Kickham csc on May 07, 2019, 05:34:13 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?

Genuine question. Are we being unfair here. NI is in the middle of a major change management program, that will last up to 50 / 75 years. One part of this change process is to ensure that impacted / target groups are brought along with the change in order to prevent them rejected the change.

The appropriate question is not one of funnelling monies to their mates, but rather how successful are Sinn Fein and the DUP in bringing impacted communities along the change management journey?

Additionally,  how well are both groups investing monies to enable that journey?

The larger community might not appreciate this activity, but if money is being invested to ensure the PP lasts, should both parties be criticised for managing the process.

DUP ex-SpAD was on tv the other day about this funny enough.  Some 'commentator' was saying DUP/SF don't work together and everyone else complains whereas if they work together re: funding for Fťile and bonfires, then it's a 'carve up'.  He said they can't win.

Agree to an extent.  It's a sure sign of someone who can't think for themselves when they start to introduce these common waffle terms like 'carve-up' and 'shinnerbot'.  However, I do think there's a point here. Why could SF and the DUP manage to work together on these issues (distributing funds directly to their support bases) but can't seem to on other, more pressing issues?

I'm not saying it's all their fault either.  I could imagine that the DUP are a lot more prone to making an agreement when they know that by doing so, they'll be given wads of cash to dish out to their mates.

This is the critical question, not money for mates.

Why can you work together, sit beside each other in church, say all the right thinks on a Monday, but can't get down to business Tuesday, Wednesday etc etc?

Likewise, Unionists always mess up the Tricolour issue, calling it a terrorists flag etc. The flag is green white and orange, not green white and gold. If I was a unionist, I would be asking SF why they are not embracing the orange section of the flag, and how will they guarantee the orange culture existence in the future, in a nationalist NI or in a UI


Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 07, 2019, 05:39:42 PM
Amanda Ferguson
@AmandaFBelfast

Could we all get real here. The rest of Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales have same-sex civil marriage, abortion access, legal language protection. Which of these should British and Irish citizens in the north/Northern Ireland not have? This position is simply not sustainable.

Who is Amanda Ferguson ?

Local political pundit.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: LooseCannon on May 07, 2019, 06:32:10 PM
How will it go in your area down South?
Our council in Offaly is currently 8FF 4FG 3SF 1Renua Ireland 3 Independents.
3 electoral areas.
Birr: 6 seats 2FF 1FG 1SF 1 Renua Ireland 1 Independent
Tullamore: 7 seats 4FF 1 FG 1 SF 2 Independents
Edenderry: 6 seats 2 FF 2 FG 1SF 1 Independent
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 07, 2019, 07:39:34 PM
Will this city deal be like everything else where SF & DUP dish it all out to their mates and family members ?

Genuine question. Are we being unfair here. NI is in the middle of a major change management program, that will last up to 50 / 75 years. One part of this change process is to ensure that impacted / target groups are brought along with the change in order to prevent them rejected the change.

The appropriate question is not one of funnelling monies to their mates, but rather how successful are Sinn Fein and the DUP in bringing impacted communities along the change management journey?

Additionally,  how well are both groups investing monies to enable that journey?

The larger community might not appreciate this activity, but if money is being invested to ensure the PP lasts, should both parties be criticised for managing the process.

DUP ex-SpAD was on tv the other day about this funny enough.  Some 'commentator' was saying DUP/SF don't work together and everyone else complains whereas if they work together re: funding for Fťile and bonfires, then it's a 'carve up'.  He said they can't win.

That ex-spad completely misses the point. The parties that can divvy up the cash jointly and work together on bonfires and Feile but not on schools, education, housing, the economy, policing, crime etc are failed and failing parties. Electorally successful but failures all the same.

All that guff about not being able to win either way is horseshit and typical of those 2 parties
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 08, 2019, 02:18:53 PM
Are all the spads currently ex-spads? Presumably they donít get paid at the moment?

If they have to be reappointed if Stormont is restored it will be interesting to see the appointment process given OíMuilleoirís little difficulty
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 08, 2019, 02:47:37 PM
There's a far more interesting case than that, which has been ongoing, for quite some time. Watch this space.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 08, 2019, 09:38:28 PM
There's a far more interesting case than that, which has been ongoing, for quite some time. Watch this space.
Timeframe?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 13, 2019, 03:22:43 PM
Six county Euro poll.

SF 27.2%
DUP 20.2%
SDLP 13.1%
UUP 11.8%
Alliance 11.3%
TUV 8.5%
Green 4.6%
Unionist for Brexit 1.7%
Ind Morrice 1.4%
Con & Ind McCann 0.1% each
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 13, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
So it's " Us"40.4, "Them" 42.3 "Neither" 17.3.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 13, 2019, 04:47:39 PM
SF 27.2% Jesus wept. Martina Anderson isn't even credible as a person never mind a politician.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2019, 05:00:40 PM
SF 27.2% Jesus wept. Martina Anderson isn't even credible as a person never mind a politician.

Did you not get the memo about all the good work she's doing in Brussels opposing Brexit ??

It's their stock answer for anything to do with it... "Oh well Martina Anderson is doing blah blah f**k all"
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 13, 2019, 05:08:24 PM
Just heard today that someone who couldn't even get re-elected in the recent Council elections has now been co-opted & promoted to replace an MLA,  who had stepped down to become a councillor. You couldn't make it up! Shows a certain contempt for the whole election process.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 13, 2019, 05:39:20 PM
Just heard today that someone who couldn't even get re-elected in the recent Council elections has now been co-opted & promoted to replace an MLA,  who had stepped down to become a councillor. You couldn't make it up! Shows a certain contempt for the whole election process.

Who?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 13, 2019, 06:10:43 PM
So it's " Us"40.4, "Them" 42.3 "Neither" 17.3.

That is the modern NI, except the next election will be us 41% them 41% and neither 18%.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 13, 2019, 09:56:34 PM
Just heard today that someone who couldn't even get re-elected in the recent Council elections has now been co-opted & promoted to replace an MLA,  who had stepped down to become a councillor. You couldn't make it up! Shows a certain contempt for the whole election process.

I understand why co-option exists but it is also abused- quite cynically by some parties
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 13, 2019, 10:03:28 PM
Just heard today that someone who couldn't even get re-elected in the recent Council elections has now been co-opted & promoted to replace an MLA,  who had stepped down to become a councillor. You couldn't make it up! Shows a certain contempt for the whole election process.

Who?

Maoilisa McHugh from Castlederg.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 13, 2019, 10:03:55 PM
Six county Euro poll.

SF 27.2%
DUP 20.2%
SDLP 13.1%
UUP 11.8%
Alliance 11.3%
TUV 8.5%
Green 4.6%
Unionist for Brexit 1.7%
Ind Morrice 1.4%
Con & Ind McCann 0.1% each

Completely frightening the degree of a lead of SF and DUP. The 2 candidates are difficult to find the words to describe. Letís hope there is a candidates debate.

Hard to know who would get the third seat but you would have to think Long would get the most transfers
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 13, 2019, 10:08:36 PM
SF 27.2% Jesus wept. Martina Anderson isn't even credible as a person never mind a politician.

Did you not get the memo about all the good work she's doing in Brussels opposing Brexit ??

It's their stock answer for anything to do with it... "Oh well Martina Anderson is doing blah blah f**k all"
Too true
The Party political broadcast will be good
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 14, 2019, 12:59:15 AM
The bar is set pretty low when it comes to politicians here so I donít see what the obsession is with Martina Anderson other than a bit of old fashioned Sinn Fein bashing? Theyíre all pretty shite as individuals and politicians, she definitely doesnít have the monopoly in the department
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 14, 2019, 08:06:16 AM
What I find sad is that 20+ years after the GFA the majority of voters are still voting for the two extremes....green or orange. I canít see it changing any time soon.
Local council elections here in England were being hailed as if the people had risen up so to speak and given the two main parties a reality check......the sad reality is come a general election.....you have blue or red.
Iím certainly done with voting.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: charlieTully on May 14, 2019, 08:28:46 AM
SF 27.2% Jesus wept. Martina Anderson isn't even credible as a person never mind a politician.


She was fighting a war while you were hiding under your bed.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 09:14:18 AM
The bar is set pretty low when it comes to politicians here so I donít see what the obsession is with Martina Anderson other than a bit of old fashioned Sinn Fein bashing? Theyíre all pretty shite as individuals and politicians, she definitely doesnít have the monopoly in the department

There is no obsession. There is an interest in her because she is a candidate in an election and therefore as a democrat and one of the incumbents she is inviting assessment of her track record.

Martina Anderson may not have a monopoly on ineffectiveness but she commands at least her fair share. What Iím trying to establish is what capabilities, attributes and achievements does she possess that would lead an individual to vote for her over say Morrice or Long? Or do people deliberately vote for a less capable candidate? What would the motivation for that be. Unionists who vote dogmatically are frequently labelled blinkered and bigoted on this forum.

The other reason for assessing Anderson is because of Marty34ís convincing Hurlers on the Ditch thesis which means only Anderson and Dodds can be assessed
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 09:19:20 AM
What I find sad is that 20+ years after the GFA the majority of voters are still voting for the two extremes....green or orange. I canít see it changing any time soon.
Local council elections here in England were being hailed as if the people had risen up so to speak and given the two main parties a reality check......the sad reality is come a general election.....you have blue or red.
Iím certainly done with voting.

That makes no sense. There must be one candidate worth voting for. Get out and vote for them. Your are going to have a future, that future will be influenced by politicians. To opt out and leave the selection of and accountability of politicians to others is a cop out
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 09:21:28 AM
SF 27.2% Jesus wept. Martina Anderson isn't even credible as a person never mind a politician.


She was fighting a war while you were hiding under your bed.

Is this what passes as credentials for public office? If there is a candidateís debate are these the credentials she will bring to the fore? What does her promotional literature say?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 14, 2019, 01:10:41 PM
The bar is set pretty low when it comes to politicians here so I donít see what the obsession is with Martina Anderson other than a bit of old fashioned Sinn Fein bashing? Theyíre all pretty shite as individuals and politicians, she definitely doesnít have the monopoly in the department
You can criticise her without nailing SF. I think she is absolutely useless and has zero respect amongst her peers. She got voted in because of who she is rather than what she can do. I would equally say the same about Dodds.

If I wanted someone to diligently and competently fight my corner in Europe I'd go for Long. I'd even have Danny Kennedy ahead of either Anderson or Dodds.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2019, 01:14:10 PM
SF 27.2% Jesus wept. Martina Anderson isn't even credible as a person never mind a politician.


She was fighting a war while you were hiding under your bed.

Ahhy dead on big lad.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 14, 2019, 01:14:43 PM
The bar is set pretty low when it comes to politicians here so I donít see what the obsession is with Martina Anderson other than a bit of old fashioned Sinn Fein bashing? Theyíre all pretty shite as individuals and politicians, she definitely doesnít have the monopoly in the department
You can criticise her without nailing SF. I think she is absolutely useless and has zero respect amongst her peers. She got voted in because of who she is rather than what she can do. I would equally say the same about Dodds.

If I wanted someone to diligently and competently fight my corner in Europe I'd go for Long. I'd even have Danny Kennedy ahead of either Anderson or Dodds.

Have you ever seen Anderson and Dodds in the same debate? If you did you wouldn't put them anywhere near the same level!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 14, 2019, 01:17:03 PM
Think I would rather watch paint drying.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 01:22:37 PM
Think I would rather watch paint drying.

Any word of a candidateís debate? These candidates need to be properly exposed. Could play to Morriceís strength
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 14, 2019, 01:37:56 PM
Think I would rather watch paint drying.

Any word of a candidateís debate? These candidates need to be properly exposed. Could play to Morriceís strength

Sure they were all on UTV last night!!!

Naomi will be getting my vote. . .
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 14, 2019, 01:52:09 PM
The bar is set pretty low when it comes to politicians here so I donít see what the obsession is with Martina Anderson other than a bit of old fashioned Sinn Fein bashing? Theyíre all pretty shite as individuals and politicians, she definitely doesnít have the monopoly in the department
You can criticise her without nailing SF. I think she is absolutely useless and has zero respect amongst her peers. She got voted in because of who she is rather than what she can do. I would equally say the same about Dodds.

If I wanted someone to diligently and competently fight my corner in Europe I'd go for Long. I'd even have Danny Kennedy ahead of either Anderson or Dodds.

Have you ever seen Anderson and Dodds in the same debate? If you did you wouldn't put them anywhere near the same level!
That's an argument around levels of mediocrity.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 14, 2019, 01:55:33 PM
Great exchange from last nights show  ::) ::) ::) ::)

https://twitter.com/RockofLifeNI/status/1128076852013277185
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 14, 2019, 02:05:02 PM
What I find sad is that 20+ years after the GFA the majority of voters are still voting for the two extremes....green or orange. I canít see it changing any time soon.
Local council elections here in England were being hailed as if the people had risen up so to speak and given the two main parties a reality check......the sad reality is come a general election.....you have blue or red.
Iím certainly done with voting.

That makes no sense. There must be one candidate worth voting for. Get out and vote for them. Your are going to have a future, that future will be influenced by politicians. To opt out and leave the selection of and accountability of politicians to others is a cop out

If you think the calibre of candidate in N.I. is poor....ie Dodds and Anderson......have a look at who is standing in England😂 from Tommy Robinson to Ann Widdecombe to Farage to Lord Adonis....if I only had four bullets left in my gun.....Farage gets them all. Iím beyond caring anymore and really feel for the younger generation. Hopefully if Iím still alive come next year Iíll head somewhere warm to live out whatever time I have left.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 14, 2019, 02:21:40 PM
Great exchange from last nights show  ::) ::) ::) ::)

https://twitter.com/RockofLifeNI/status/1128076852013277185

Jim is an absolute gipe. Embarrassing for unionism.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 03:23:04 PM
Think I would rather watch paint drying.

Any word of a candidateís debate? These candidates need to be properly exposed. Could play to Morriceís strength

Sure they were all on UTV last night!!!

Naomi will be getting my vote. . .
Missed that. Anything worth catching up on? How did the 2 incumbents do?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: LooseCannon on May 14, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
May I ask what have the SDLP and the UUP done wrong in comparison to the extreme parties in the North?

Itís not as is the SDLP have murdered anyone, have they?
Genuinely curious.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 03:25:02 PM
What I find sad is that 20+ years after the GFA the majority of voters are still voting for the two extremes....green or orange. I canít see it changing any time soon.
Local council elections here in England were being hailed as if the people had risen up so to speak and given the two main parties a reality check......the sad reality is come a general election.....you have blue or red.
Iím certainly done with voting.

That makes no sense. There must be one candidate worth voting for. Get out and vote for them. Your are going to have a future, that future will be influenced by politicians. To opt out and leave the selection of and accountability of politicians to others is a cop out

If you think the calibre of candidate in N.I. is poor....ie Dodds and Anderson......have a look at who is standing in England😂 from Tommy Robinson to Ann Widdecombe to Farage to Lord Adonis....if I only had four bullets left in my gun.....Farage gets them all. Iím beyond caring anymore and really feel for the younger generation. Hopefully if Iím still alive come next year Iíll head somewhere warm to live out whatever time I have left.

With a population the size of GB Iím not surprised that there are 4 candidates as bad as that but there are other candidates and you only have to pick one
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 03:29:40 PM
May I ask what have the SDLP and the UUP done wrong in comparison to the extreme parties in the North?

Itís not as is the SDLP have murdered anyone, have they?
Genuinely curious.

They got old and they didnít tool up for the cynical professionalism/professional cynicism of SF/DUP

Earlier mention of co-option. SF routinely co opt young and inexperienced people on to council so that in their first election they are incumbents and possibly even have a track record.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 14, 2019, 03:32:08 PM
May I ask what have the SDLP and the UUP done wrong in comparison to the extreme parties in the North?

Itís not as is the SDLP have murdered anyone, have they?
Genuinely curious.

It's how you sell it . . . Sinn Fein could never have the support of ordinary Nationalists when the IRA was still engaged in armed struggle. When they gave it up Sinn Fein portrayed themselves as the peacemakers who wanted a United Ireland through political means.

SDLP never really pushed for a United Ireland hard enough so they lost a lot of support that way and once they lost big personalities like Hume and Mallon they were always going to struggle. McDevitt offered them some hope but then he was too principled for stepping down for something which in todays politics would barely cause a ripple!!!

Likewise the DUP were hard liners taking a back seat to the UUP crying down the Good Friday agreement but then there were 29% odd against it and mostly Unionist so they hoovered those up and then went into Government with Sinn Fein anyway!!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 14, 2019, 07:45:06 PM
May I ask what have the SDLP and the UUP done wrong in comparison to the extreme parties in the North?

Itís not as is the SDLP have murdered anyone, have they?
Genuinely curious.

They got old and they didnít tool up for the cynical professionalism/professional cynicism of SF/DUP

Earlier mention of co-option. SF routinely co opt young and inexperienced people on to council so that in their first election they are incumbents and possibly even have a track record.

The old time nodding dogs on the back shelves of the cars of yesteryear had more capacity for independent thought than the current batch of SF clones - all looky likeys.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2019, 09:45:23 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: hardstation on May 14, 2019, 09:47:49 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.
Youíve gone full Jamie Bryson.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 14, 2019, 09:48:14 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 14, 2019, 10:42:30 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.
Which Durkan was co opted?
Which Dallat was co opted?
Which Paisley was co opted?
Which Robinson was co opted?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 15, 2019, 09:00:00 AM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 15, 2019, 10:04:57 AM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 15, 2019, 10:20:09 AM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: johnnycool on May 15, 2019, 10:25:27 AM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.

Are you trying to say nepotism is rife in NI politics?

Are Diane, Iris, Paul Maskey, the Durkan's, young Poots and Co not picked on merit?

Big Gavin R is no relation to Peter the punt.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 15, 2019, 10:28:26 AM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.

Are you trying to say nepotism is rife in NI politics?

Are Diane, Iris, Paul Maskey, the Durkan's, young Poots and Co not picked on merit?

Big Gavin R is no relation to Peter the punt.

The 26 are as bad I've noticed. The amount of posters I've seen  with familiar surnames is shackin, so it is.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 15, 2019, 11:13:19 AM
How will it go in your area down South?
Our council in Offaly is currently 8FF 4FG 3SF 1Renua Ireland 3 Independents.
3 electoral areas.
Birr: 6 seats 2FF 1FG 1SF 1 Renua Ireland 1 Independent
Tullamore: 7 seats 4FF 1 FG 1 SF 2 Independents
Edenderry: 6 seats 2 FF 2 FG 1SF 1 Independent

Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
We should probably partition the south elections into a separate thread. Gets lost amongst the 6 county stuff.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 15, 2019, 12:10:23 PM
Whats the view on Mark Durkan in Dublin? Will he get elected?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 15, 2019, 12:23:19 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.

Iíll ask you the same question that Marty34 is unwilling to answer - which of these have been co opted?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rois on May 15, 2019, 12:24:10 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.
That's newly elected Mary Durkan the practicing barrister, who has been involved in politics forever, and who was the poll topper in the QUB Student Union president election back in 2001?  I don't get why you think there's nepotism - Mary doesn't need the role of councillor, given her successful career, and was elected fair and square. 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 15, 2019, 01:12:27 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.

Iíll ask you the same question that Marty34 is unwilling to answer - which of these have been co opted?

Durkan was ran in the foyleside dea, it's as good as co opting. Be like running an unknown SF candidate in Black mountain.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 15, 2019, 01:55:24 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

Nonsense. Of course it is! Newly elected SDLP councillor Mary Durkan in Derry. Im sure it's just coincidence she's Mark Hs sister and Marks neice. Same with the Robinsons in the DUP and the Trimbles in the UUP.

Iíll ask you the same question that Marty34 is unwilling to answer - which of these have been co opted?

Durkan was ran in the foyleside dea, it's as good as co opting. Be like running an unknown SF candidate in Black mountain.

Flimsy

The woman ran in her local area, at the most junior level, having served in the party for years and having established herself professionally and then was elected by the public. Not co opted
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 15, 2019, 02:06:05 PM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
McGuinness and Carthy should get back anyway.
Hopefully Ming before that Casey fella.
FFrs will surely expect to take a seat .
Don't know enough about the other 2 areas.
There's a plethora of loonylefts in Dublin which will I'm sure eat into the SF vote but will they come back in transfers?
If SF do badly they'll have to reconsider their Queen's position.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on May 15, 2019, 03:21:13 PM
Politics in nepotism and jobs for the boys shocker.....


Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 15, 2019, 03:21:17 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

It's exactly the same in most political parties - co-opted or standinging for the first time.

Durkan in Derry...mmmm...nepotism and all the rest, Maskeys in Belfast, Poots and Robinsons in Belfast.  Family name means a lot on the poster regardless.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 15, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

It's exactly the same in most political parties - co-opted or standinging for the first time.

Durkan in Derry...mmmm...nepotism and all the rest, Maskeys in Belfast, Poots and Robinsons in Belfast.  Family name means a lot on the poster regardless.

Last sentence is probably true but thatís democracy. Co opting is not the same is it? The electorate donít have role to play in co opting do they?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 15, 2019, 05:06:21 PM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
McGuinness and Carthy should get back anyway.
Hopefully Ming before that Casey fella.
FFrs will surely expect to take a seat .
Don't know enough about the other 2 areas.
There's a plethora of loonylefts in Dublin which will I'm sure eat into the SF vote but will they come back in transfers?
If SF do badly they'll have to reconsider their Queen's position.

Queen Mary Lou?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 15, 2019, 05:08:45 PM
Yep Farr.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 15, 2019, 05:49:45 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

It's exactly the same in most political parties - co-opted or standinging for the first time.

Durkan in Derry...mmmm...nepotism and all the rest, Maskeys in Belfast, Poots and Robinsons in Belfast.  Family name means a lot on the poster regardless.

Last sentence is probably true but thatís democracy. Co opting is not the same is it? The electorate donít have role to play in co opting do they?

A Durkan in Foyleside???? As good as co-opting.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: LooseCannon on May 15, 2019, 08:14:09 PM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
Mairťad McGuinness
Ming
Brendan Smith
Carthy or Casey. People are copping on to Carthyís co-option party trick.

Ireland South:
SeŠn Kelly
Liadh NŪ Riada
Billy Kelleher
Clune/ Smith
Byrne

Dublin:
Fitzgerald
Andrews
Boylan
Iíve a funny feeling that Cuffe will get the last one.

IMHO, of course. I may be proven to be wrong.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: currychip on May 15, 2019, 09:47:12 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

It's exactly the same in most political parties - co-opted or standinging for the first time.

Durkan in Derry...mmmm...nepotism and all the rest, Maskeys in Belfast, Poots and Robinsons in Belfast.  Family name means a lot on the poster regardless.

Last sentence is probably true but thatís democracy. Co opting is not the same is it? The electorate donít have role to play in co opting do they?

A Durkan in Foyleside???? As good as co-opting.

Bunkum.  There were 3 SDLP candidates and 2 SDLP quotas. Voters had a choice and voted strongly for Mary Durian.  Nothing like a co option.  A simple case of offering voters choice.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 15, 2019, 09:48:56 PM
Co-opting. Jobs for the boys/girls. If you're a good little boy or girl and do what the Felon's club tells you, you'll get a cushey MLA number.

Or the Durkans in Derry or Dallats in Causeway or the Paisleys, Poots and Robinsons etc. etc....all the same in every political party.

It's definitely not the same in every political party.

I see there is an issue with postal votes for the European elections in NI. Be interesting to see if this has an effect on percentage vote share....

It's exactly the same in most political parties - co-opted or standinging for the first time.

Durkan in Derry...mmmm...nepotism and all the rest, Maskeys in Belfast, Poots and Robinsons in Belfast.  Family name means a lot on the poster regardless.

Last sentence is probably true but thatís democracy. Co opting is not the same is it? The electorate donít have role to play in co opting do they?

A Durkan in Foyleside???? As good as co-opting.
Do you see any difference between Maoliosa McHugh being rejected by the electorate at council level and then being foisted on the electorate, without a vote at the higher MLA level and on the other hand Mary Durkan stand for election in her local area and succeeding?

Do you see any difference between some kid with no life, work or public service experience being co opted in and say a proven party official and established professional running for election in her local area and securing electoral approval?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 15, 2019, 11:37:14 PM
https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/05/15/ni-european-election-data-modelling-exercise/

Very interesting. The takeaway is that long is best placed for the 3rd seat from a remain point of view. I think I'll transfer to her, she's a good politician.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 15, 2019, 11:43:25 PM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
Mairťad McGuinness
Ming
Brendan Smith
Carthy or Casey. People are copping on to Carthyís co-option party trick.

Ireland South:
SeŠn Kelly
Liadh NŪ Riada
Billy Kelleher
Clune/ Smith
Byrne

Dublin:
Fitzgerald
Andrews
Boylan
Iíve a funny feeling that Cuffe will get the last one.

IMHO, of course. I may be proven to be wrong.
Only 4 seats in South and 3 in Dublin. Other seats suspended because the British are still there.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: LooseCannon on May 16, 2019, 06:56:54 AM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
Mairťad McGuinness
Ming
Brendan Smith
Carthy or Casey. People are copping on to Carthyís co-option party trick.

Ireland South:
SeŠn Kelly
Liadh NŪ Riada
Billy Kelleher
Clune/ Smith
Byrne

Dublin:
Fitzgerald
Andrews
Boylan
Iíve a funny feeling that Cuffe will get the last one.

IMHO, of course. I may be proven to be wrong.
Only 4 seats in South and 3 in Dublin. Other seats suspended because the British are still there.

Iím aware of that.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 16, 2019, 10:40:45 AM
Anyone guess who'll be elected in the various constituencies in the 26? Mairead McGuinness will prob top the poll in Midlands/North/West. Apart from that???
Mairťad McGuinness
Ming
Brendan Smith
Carthy or Casey. People are copping on to Carthyís co-option party trick.

Ireland South:
SeŠn Kelly
Liadh NŪ Riada
Billy Kelleher
Clune/ Smith
Byrne

Dublin:
Fitzgerald
Andrews
Boylan
Iíve a funny feeling that Cuffe will get the last one.

IMHO, of course. I may be proven to be wrong.
Only 4 seats in South and 3 in Dublin. Other seats suspended because the British are still there.

Iím aware of that.
Number 4 is going to have to wait in the sidelines pending the UK exit. For Dublin, have they said if they are going to count it like a 4 seater, or do it as a 3 seater first and then re-count as a 4?

It could make a big difference.
Last time the top 4 in Dublin (3 seater), in order, were:
1. Boylan
2. Childers
3. Hayes
4. Ryan

But if they'd counted it as a 4 seater, the order would have been:
1. Boylan
2. Childers
3. Ryan
4. Hayes

So Eamonn Ryan would have got in automatically and Brian Hayes would have had to wait until UK finally left.

This is because under the second scenario, Boylan would have had a 13,000 excess over the quota to distribute and Ryan was only about 1,000 votes behind Hayes, so it's thought he'd have comfortably passed him out.
 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 16, 2019, 10:46:24 AM
Might have it wrong but I believe Dublin and South will be counted as 4/5 seats with 4th and 5th elected on the bench waiting for the United Chaosdom to leave the EU.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: macdanger2 on May 16, 2019, 12:47:22 PM
Might have it wrong but I believe Dublin and South will be counted as 4/5 seats with 4th and 5th elected on the bench waiting for the United Chaosdom to leave the EU.

That's what I read also
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 16, 2019, 04:29:05 PM
Lucky for Frances, she's becoming even more photogenic for the election!

Recent picture



Election picture

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 16, 2019, 10:58:09 PM
Jim Allister is better at making his point than Kennedy (Danny that is), Dodds or Anderson. Admittedly his point is bloody stupid. Dodds is a lightweight. Kennedy looks bewildered and Anderson is the female embodiment of Cicero
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 17, 2019, 08:42:27 AM
Jim Allister is better at making his point than Kennedy (Danny that is), Dodds or Anderson. Admittedly his point is bloody stupid. Dodds is a lightweight. Kennedy looks bewildered and Anderson is the female embodiment of Cicero

Won't be voting SF this time anyway.  Watching that 'armoured cars and tanks and guns' speech of Anderson's a while back made me sick in my mouth a little.

However, you don't do much to present the positive case for voting Alliance smelmoth.  Constantly attacking the other candidates reeks of someone with nothing of substance to say.  And it's tiresome.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 17, 2019, 09:12:46 AM
Jim Allister is better at making his point than Kennedy (Danny that is), Dodds or Anderson. Admittedly his point is bloody stupid. Dodds is a lightweight. Kennedy looks bewildered and Anderson is the female embodiment of Cicero

Won't be voting SF this time anyway.  Watching that 'armoured cars and tanks and guns' speech of Anderson's a while back made me sick in my mouth a little.

However, you don't do much to present the positive case for voting Alliance smelmoth.  Constantly attacking the other candidates reeks of someone with nothing of substance to say.  And it's tiresome.

Sorry that you find it tiresome. I have posted several times to expose that SF lie to their supporters about the nature of UI on offer, that SF and DUP donít like being challenged, have no answers when challenged and have no positive track record to point to despite the opportunities afforded them. Itís tiring work but Iíll persevere.

As for the positive case for Alliance I have posted the merits of their candidate (can or has anyone argued that any of the other candidates is more capable). I have argued that Long is more capable of arguing the remain case, highlighting the unique NI circumstances and the range of opinions and contexts in NI (by all means for someone who can do this better). I have argued that Long can collect the required transfers in a way that say Kennedy and Eastwood canít (and explained why). I have argued for voting for a Remain candidate and have argued that this election (amongst others) does not have to be along unionist/nationalist lines. It may be tiresome but you canít seriously pretend that itís not positive
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 17, 2019, 11:50:26 AM
Danny's been guldering.


Daniel McCrossan MLA 🕊🇪🇺
@McCrossanMLA

12h
Youíve heard it loud and clear - in 2016 Naomi Long publicly stated that she accepted the result of the Referendum to leave the EU!

THE
@SDLPlive
 IS THE ONLY TRUE EUROPEAN PARTY!

If people want a strong voice against Brexit, they must come out and Vote
@columeastwood
 on Thurs


I sense from the SDLP establishment that they are really worried about Alliance getting the 3rd seat ahead of them.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Keyser soze on May 17, 2019, 12:13:31 PM
I had been sure that the third seat would remain unionist, but after watching Danny Kennedy last night you would wonder how anybody could vote or transfer to him he is so ineffectual. 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 17, 2019, 01:23:52 PM
He must be good....sure he was an Executive minister, after all.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 17, 2019, 01:30:58 PM
He is not the worst of people and he isnít even the worst candidate but he looked utterly clueless last night. He gave the impression of being informed of his candidacy just as the production manager was counting down to the live broadcast
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 17, 2019, 04:19:58 PM
Danny's been guldering.


Daniel McCrossan MLA 🕊🇪🇺
@McCrossanMLA

12h
Youíve heard it loud and clear - in 2016 Naomi Long publicly stated that she accepted the result of the Referendum to leave the EU!

THE
@SDLPlive
 IS THE ONLY TRUE EUROPEAN PARTY!

If people want a strong voice against Brexit, they must come out and Vote
@columeastwood
 on Thurs


I sense from the SDLP establishment that they are really worried about Alliance getting the 3rd seat ahead of them.

A snivelling weasel if ever there was one.

The SDLP need to realise that characters like this do them more harm than good.

Never mind giving them a first preference vote, the odiousness of this particular character would even make me question giving the SDLP a transfer.

It's looking like Naomi 1 at this stage.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 17, 2019, 05:31:43 PM
Jim Allister is better at making his point than Kennedy (Danny that is), Dodds or Anderson. Admittedly his point is bloody stupid. Dodds is a lightweight. Kennedy looks bewildered and Anderson is the female embodiment of Cicero

You mention everybody but Long!!! After last night I wonder why?

They were all brutal - only winner was Mark C - he blew them out of the water!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 17, 2019, 05:53:57 PM
Jim Allister is better at making his point than Kennedy (Danny that is), Dodds or Anderson. Admittedly his point is bloody stupid. Dodds is a lightweight. Kennedy looks bewildered and Anderson is the female embodiment of Cicero

You mention everybody but Long!!! After last night I wonder why?

They were all brutal - only winner was Mark C - he blew them out of the water!

Well wonder no longer. I didnít mention Long because at time of writing she had not spoke. Hope that clears things up for you

The winner in the debate was clearly Long.

Iím a fan of Carruthers but think the voting transfer question was misguided. None of the candidates were ever going to answer that question directly
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 17, 2019, 05:56:51 PM
Jim Allister is better at making his point than Kennedy (Danny that is), Dodds or Anderson. Admittedly his point is bloody stupid. Dodds is a lightweight. Kennedy looks bewildered and Anderson is the female embodiment of Cicero

You mention everybody but Long!!! After last night I wonder why?

They were all brutal - only winner was Mark C - he blew them out of the water!

Well wonder no longer. I didnít mention Long because at time of writing she had not spoke. Hope that clears things up for you

The winner in the debate was clearly Long.

Iím a fan of Carruthers but think the voting transfer question was misguided. None of the candidates were ever going to answer that question directly

There was no winner - Mark C had the questions re: what they said before and then changed their minds.  It was a mess.  No debate at all, just a shouting match.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2019, 06:05:08 PM
They were never going to do that, it was a loaded question and one that would lead to a party pact which would be used against them on the doorstep. Stupid quest and Mark knew why he asked it.

Long is head and shoulders above the crew assembled followed by Eastwood who put the DUP and Jim in their place when they said out was out he told them theyíve been looking to change the GFA since it was signed!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 17, 2019, 10:52:12 PM
Good video in Eastwood's tweet
https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1129320493411196928
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: screenexile on May 20, 2019, 06:55:19 PM
Jesus lads you couldnít make up this character if you tried... real life is destroying satire!!

https://twitter.com/dawnhfoster/status/1130427100966653952?s=21
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 20, 2019, 07:34:21 PM
That clown has been running around the last few years.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2019, 08:31:08 PM
Jesus lads you couldnít make up this character if you tried... real life is destroying satire!!

https://twitter.com/dawnhfoster/status/1130427100966653952?s=21

Surely that is made up lol.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 21, 2019, 08:54:46 AM
There's some f**k pots who run for office.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 21, 2019, 05:54:06 PM
Anyone know why Durkan wasnít on the RT… debate for Dublin euros last night?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: macdanger2 on May 21, 2019, 07:14:39 PM
Anyone know why Durkan wasnít on the RT… debate for Dublin euros last night?

Only one allowed from each party but not sure how they chose e.g. Sitting MEP Deirdre Clune didn't make the cut the previous night
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 21, 2019, 07:22:46 PM
Macbeth's 3 witches appearing together on the SF party political broadcast in da North earlier.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 21, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
Anyone know why Durkan wasnít on the RT… debate for Dublin euros last night?

Only one allowed from each party but not sure how they chose e.g. Sitting MEP Deirdre Clune didn't make the cut the previous night

When does the count take place?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 21, 2019, 09:19:21 PM
Monday apparently, as a lot of these godless goddamn European types vote on the Sabbath Day & don't keep it holy. Votail DUP, Votail Dodds uimhir a haon, Votail Brexit.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 21, 2019, 09:33:45 PM
Monday apparently, as a lot of these godless goddamn European types vote on the Sabbath Day & don't keep it holy. Votail DUP, Votail Dodds uimhir a haon, Votail Brexit.

You'd think they'd all vote on the same day.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 21, 2019, 09:35:56 PM
No craic in that.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 21, 2019, 11:04:59 PM
Flegger rent a mob in the bbc studio again for the election debate
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: The Trap on May 22, 2019, 12:09:37 AM
Watching the debates we all have to vote 1 2 3 in whatever order you want sf sdlp and alliance.
Unionists will ruin the economy to be part of a union that doesn't want them.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 22, 2019, 12:15:33 AM
Agreed. As much as i like naomi having 2 actual nationalists will be even sweeter so I hope Collum gets it. If transfers follow the latest lucid talk poll then naomi will sneak it. If transfers follow the recent council elections then collum will get it. Either way kennedy is toast snd just as well as he has been crap in the debates
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 22, 2019, 12:18:13 AM
Agreed. As much as i like naomi having 2 actual nationalists will be even sweeter so I hope Collum gets it. If transfers follow the latest lucid talk poll then naomi will sneak it. If transfers follow the recent council elections then collum will get it. Either way kennedy is toast snd just as well as he has been crap in the debates

If you are in the occupied territories, get out and and vote and make sure to transfer.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 22, 2019, 12:45:53 AM
Agreed. As much as i like naomi having 2 actual nationalists will be even sweeter so I hope Collum gets it. If transfers follow the latest lucid talk poll then naomi will sneak it. If transfers follow the recent council elections then collum will get it. Either way kennedy is toast snd just as well as he has been crap in the debates

If you are in the occupied territories, get out and and vote and make sure to transfer.
All the unionists spinning the line....it's all about the union.  Worst thing that can happen would be a 6 county pro-Brexit vote so, as you say, everyone needs 1,2and 3 for pro remain parties.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: drillsergeant on May 22, 2019, 01:09:37 AM
Agreed. As much as i like naomi having 2 actual nationalists will be even sweeter so I hope Collum gets it. If transfers follow the latest lucid talk poll then naomi will sneak it. If transfers follow the recent council elections then collum will get it. Either way kennedy is toast snd just as well as he has been crap in the debates

If you are in the occupied territories, get out and and vote and make sure to transfer.


All the unionists spinning the line....it's all about the union.  Worst thing that can happen would be a 6 county pro-Brexit vote so, as you say, everyone needs 1,2and 3 for pro remain parties.

I couldnít agree more folks! Everyone needs to get out on Thursday an vote for Pro Remain Parties. Electing 2 Remainers should send the message loud an clear, just like 2016 us in the North of Ireland want to REMAIN in the EU!! 1.Anderson 2.Eastwood 3.Long for me!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 22, 2019, 08:09:53 AM
How did the PT debate go down last night? Casey seems to be under pressure
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 22, 2019, 08:56:49 AM
It the north itís Ussins versus Themíuns and itís Themíuns fault for making Ussins vote/think that way.

Great. Where is that going to get us?

Put it another way- you need someone to clearly state the NI position, you need someone to participate in senior discussions, to come up with ideas, to build powerful alliances within European Parliament and tap into the wider remain campaign within Uk. Who is your first pick?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: macdanger2 on May 22, 2019, 09:16:09 AM
How did the PT debate go down last night? Casey seems to be under pressure

It's not a great format with so many involved tbh, I wonder if they'd be better doing a 5-7 min interview with each of them.

I thought McGuinness came across as the most capable. McHugh did well also and I'll probably give her my 1st vote. I don't like that Carthy is planning to jump ship at the next election but he's very good at making his point imo.

Casey is no good apart from an occasional controversial soundbite, when ask to articulate further, he ties himself in knots.

The other four were a bit blah
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2019, 09:35:33 AM
Only saw the start of It.
Ming like a lot of previously anti EU people got brought to reality by the Brexit fiasco.
Casey wants us to stay in the EU but wants us to get the same deal the Brits get after they leave!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2019, 10:08:17 AM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: johnnycool on May 22, 2019, 10:54:19 AM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past. Too insignificant in recent years to matter.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2019, 11:09:53 AM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 22, 2019, 11:26:47 AM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past. Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

Certainly more nationalist than the Alliance party though which makes the lucid talk poll on 2nd prefs for SF bizarre. A quick look at the numbers and colum and Naomi will be neck and neck when one of them is eliminated. Its going to be very tight so those SF transfers will be vital
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: lurganblue on May 22, 2019, 11:31:47 AM
Cant bring myself to transfer votes to any party I fundamentally disagree with on the majority of issues, Europe aside.  I feel if I did transfer my votes to them I would be no worse that the people who vote DUP just to keep them'uns out. It is hypocritical.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: naka on May 22, 2019, 11:48:03 AM
tbf the sdlp were always pro european so its fair to say that remainers should look to them.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: GJL on May 22, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 22, 2019, 12:14:44 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: naka on May 22, 2019, 12:26:33 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...
tbf GJL  the gfa is the best deal that could be cobbled together but as a community we are as divided as ever so i think its fair to say that the minimum majority for a UI will not give us a settled peace. i dont think he is saying anything that the vast majority of us realise.
for me 50% plus 1 woeks but i am not naive to realise the shit storm it will unfurl.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 22, 2019, 12:45:22 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...
tbf GJL  the gfa is the best deal that could be cobbled together but as a community we are as divided as ever so i think its fair to say that the minimum majority for a UI will not give us a settled peace. i dont think he is saying anything that the vast majority of us realise.
for me 50% plus 1 woeks but i am not naive to realise the shit storm it will unfurl.

Agreed.
It will be 50% + 1
Something like a 60% in favour would be great but realistically nationalists are not going to wait another generation to get there.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2019, 12:45:43 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 12:50:12 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?
@DaireHughesSF has just tweeted a good summary of why Anderson should be 1st preference. Outperforms DUP/UUP combined over the last 5 years
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2019, 12:51:46 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 22, 2019, 01:42:44 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?
@DaireHughesSF has just tweeted a good summary of why Anderson should be 1st preference. Outperforms DUP/UUP combined over the last 5 years

That tells us one thing. She turns up more often than Jim Nicholson or Diane Dodds. But I guess most people here are not considering voting for them or their parties. What is she actually doing and what effect does have? Her contributions to debates are weak just judging by the written record but when you add in the context of the dead of night to an empty hall and nobody engaging with her you realise how little she actually achieves
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 22, 2019, 01:46:50 PM
I was in Strasbourg a couple of years ago. Contacted Anderson, Nicholson & Dodds about seeing the parliament - number of responses = zilch. Needless to say I won't be arsed going out tomorrow, if that's their attitude.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2019, 01:53:00 PM
I was in Strasbourg a couple of years ago. Contacted Anderson, Nicholson & Dodds about seeing the parliament - number of responses = zilch. Needless to say I won't be arsed going out tomorrow, if that's their attitude.

I honestly didn't know they were tour guides as well.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 22, 2019, 01:53:08 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 22, 2019, 02:01:37 PM
I was in Strasbourg a couple of years ago. Contacted Anderson, Nicholson & Dodds about seeing the parliament - number of responses = zilch. Needless to say I won't be arsed going out tomorrow, if that's their attitude.
Jim only has time to clock in before nipping back to the airport.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: APM on May 22, 2019, 02:22:03 PM
I was in Strasbourg a couple of years ago. Contacted Anderson, Nicholson & Dodds about seeing the parliament - number of responses = zilch. Needless to say I won't be arsed going out tomorrow, if that's their attitude.

If you do not feel that you are being properly represented you should vote for an alternative. The answer is never to opt out. This election will be interpreted as an endorsement or rejection of the referendum result.  Therefore, if you favour remain, you should vote for remain candidates who you can support.  There is a lot wrong with Europe, including the performance of elected representatives, but has there been a more important EU election here?  Since the referendum we have been represented 2 to 1 by Brexit supporting MEPs. Representation in Westminster for the north has been 10 to 1 for Brexit.  Neither situation reflects the views of the people as expressed in the Brexit referendum.  A vote for two Brexit supporting MEPs tomorrow will be seen as an endorsement of the leave vote and will be interpreted as a majority in NI for leave (however wrongly) and used accordingly.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: GJL on May 22, 2019, 02:29:34 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.

I'm not disputing that. I am however calling bullsh1t on your claim that..

''They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.''


Mallon has clearly changed his view in this instance.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 22, 2019, 03:31:24 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.

I'm not disputing that. I am however calling bullsh1t on your claim that..

''They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.''


Mallon has clearly changed his view in this instance.

I always thought that 50%+1 wouldnít be a smooth transition. I am increasingly of that view. Have I clearly changed my mind?

Your example is shockingly poorly thought out
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: currychip on May 22, 2019, 03:57:38 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy. 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: GJL on May 22, 2019, 04:13:12 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.

I'm not disputing that. I am however calling bullsh1t on your claim that..

''They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.''


Mallon has clearly changed his view in this instance.

I always thought that 50%+1 wouldnít be a smooth transition. I am increasingly of that view. Have I clearly changed my mind?

Your example is shockingly poorly thought out

I could be wrong but I assume you did not help write the GFA?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 22, 2019, 06:36:04 PM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Mallon wants a few soundbites...must have a book coming out...ohhh wait!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 08:57:18 AM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Mallon wants a few soundbites...must have a book coming out...ohhh wait!

Man promoting interview says something interesting and journalist quotes him. Shock

Keepers there are candidates in todayís elections that have done things a lot more shocking than that
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 09:00:55 AM
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.

I'm not disputing that. I am however calling bullsh1t on your claim that..

''They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.''


Mallon has clearly changed his view in this instance.

I always thought that 50%+1 wouldnít be a smooth transition. I am increasingly of that view. Have I clearly changed my mind?

Your example is shockingly poorly thought out

I could be wrong but I assume you did not help write the GFA?

You are 100% correct. I didnít help write GFA

There is the same evidence that Mallon and I have changed our mind. And it is ok to change your mind. Only a dogmatic idiot would refuse to change their mind if the evidence changed or emerged more clearly
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 09:11:53 AM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 23, 2019, 09:13:22 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 23, 2019, 09:53:12 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)
f**k didnít know Jamie Bryson was on the board
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: johnnycool on May 23, 2019, 10:27:46 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 23, 2019, 10:39:19 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: johnnycool on May 23, 2019, 10:45:47 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

Who's attacking you?

Some facts and some conjecture in there and who doesn't know this at this stage in her political career?

Should Shane Paul O'Doherty be made walk around in sackcloth and ashes for his previous life as well as Martina?

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 10:48:55 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

I make no comment on the article or it author. But in respect of Andersonís violent history it has already been quoted here as a reason for voting for her. So which is it? Do we judge her on her violent past and afford her political credentials based on that or do we judge her on her abilities and track record as a politician? Iím happy to do the latter
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 23, 2019, 10:50:29 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

Who's attacking you?
General Lee above. See Jamie Bryson line - deflection.

Some facts and some conjecture in there and who doesn't know this at this stage in her political career?

Should Shane Paul O'Doherty be made walk around in sackcloth and ashes for his previous life as well as Martina?

So everyone knows. Deflection.
Your point about the author is pure whataboutery. He's not running for Election to the European parliament. Anderson should be held to a higher authority as she is.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: johnnycool on May 23, 2019, 10:59:11 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

I make no comment on the article or it author. But in respect of Andersonís violent history it has already been quoted here as a reason for voting for her. So which is it? Do we judge her on her violent past and afford her political credentials based on that or do we judge her on her abilities and track record as a politician? Iím happy to do the latter

I suppose like the rest of us you judge her as you see fit like we all do to people in public life you will vote accordingly.


Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: johnnycool on May 23, 2019, 11:06:46 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

Who's attacking you?
General Lee above. See Jamie Bryson line - deflection.

Some facts and some conjecture in there and who doesn't know this at this stage in her political career?

Should Shane Paul O'Doherty be made walk around in sackcloth and ashes for his previous life as well as Martina?

So everyone knows. Deflection.
Your point about the author is pure whataboutery. He's not running for Election to the European parliament. Anderson should be held to a higher authority as she is.

Didn't see General Lee's comment and it's nothing to do with me.

Anderson doesn't shy away from her past and it's well documented for all to see.

Vote as you see fit Trailer.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 11:17:17 AM
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/ (https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/)

Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

I make no comment on the article or it author. But in respect of Andersonís violent history it has already been quoted here as a reason for voting for her. So which is it? Do we judge her on her violent past and afford her political credentials based on that or do we judge her on her abilities and track record as a politician? Iím happy to do the latter

I suppose like the rest of us you judge her as you see fit like we all do to people in public life you will vote accordingly.

Itís interesting to see how people make those judgements. Do they see he violent past as a plus? If so how/why and if so are political roles just a way for pensioning off bombers?

Is her violent participation irrelevant but her republican views important? If so why- what relevance does if have in the European Parliament?

Is all of this irrelevant and her supporters genuinely think she is the person best qualified to deliver for NI? If so what is the actual evidence? We had that tweet from Daire Hughes but there is nothing noteworthy in it.

When her supporters canít point to anything noteworthy in her political track record it hard to escape the conclusion that they view the political representation of the people of NI as a handy means of pensioning off volunteers. Future generations are unlikely to judge this kindly
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Keyser soze on May 23, 2019, 11:29:23 AM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: magpie seanie on May 23, 2019, 12:03:17 PM
Had picked up a bit yesterday on Twitter about Saoirse McHugh of the Green Party and how well she did on RTE's Primetime debate for the Midlands North West Euro constituency so decided to throw on RTE player when I went home from work yesterday. It didn't disappoint. She was brilliant. Cut the legs off that odious shyster Casey repeatedly and presented a common sense, well thought out policy platform. Further research I've done on her has proved equally impressive. It's a long shot but her support is growing. I think she's exactly the type of politician we need. I'll be voting #1 for her tomorrow. I think people in that constituency should strongly consider doing likewise.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 23, 2019, 12:32:17 PM
Seriously thinking of giving her the No.1 instead of Ming.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 23, 2019, 12:58:44 PM
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Taylor on May 23, 2019, 01:01:37 PM
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Still undecided but considering 1. Long  2. Anderson  3. Eastwood.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Orior on May 23, 2019, 01:17:51 PM
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Still undecided but considering 1. Long  2. Anderson  3. Eastwood.

Youíre not swayed by Jim Ďstraight talkingí Allister?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: magpie seanie on May 23, 2019, 01:36:56 PM
Seriously thinking of giving her the No.1 instead of Ming.


Ming was getting my #1, now getting #2. He's a bit messy but well intentioned and honest and has similar views on the EU to myself (i.e. it has done good, it has done bad but I don't want a federal Europe). Has the interests of the people in the constituency at heart. That last bit should be a prerequisite for all candidates but sadly now it's the exception.

Cyril Brennan also did well I thought as did Hannigan from Labour.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 23, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Taylor on May 23, 2019, 01:41:14 PM
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Still undecided but considering 1. Long  2. Anderson  3. Eastwood.

Youíre not swayed by Jim Ďstraight talkingí Allister?

A t**ser of the highest order. Would you ever tire of punching his face?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: currychip on May 23, 2019, 01:47:41 PM
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 23, 2019, 02:00:44 PM
Had picked up a bit yesterday on Twitter about Saoirse McHugh of the Green Party and how well she did on RTE's Primetime debate for the Midlands North West Euro constituency so decided to throw on RTE player when I went home from work yesterday. It didn't disappoint. She was brilliant. Cut the legs off that odious shyster Casey repeatedly and presented a common sense, well thought out policy platform. Further research I've done on her has proved equally impressive. It's a long shot but her support is growing. I think she's exactly the type of politician we need. I'll be voting #1 for her tomorrow. I think people in that constituency should strongly consider doing likewise.
Won't be giving her any preference, nothing against her personally but the Greens and their fellow travellers are anathema to me. Won't take too long to fill in the European ballot paper though, about 6/7 strokes and that'll be it.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 02:11:25 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 02:12:57 PM
Had picked up a bit yesterday on Twitter about Saoirse McHugh of the Green Party and how well she did on RTE's Primetime debate for the Midlands North West Euro constituency so decided to throw on RTE player when I went home from work yesterday. It didn't disappoint. She was brilliant. Cut the legs off that odious shyster Casey repeatedly and presented a common sense, well thought out policy platform. Further research I've done on her has proved equally impressive. It's a long shot but her support is growing. I think she's exactly the type of politician we need. I'll be voting #1 for her tomorrow. I think people in that constituency should strongly consider doing likewise.
Won't be giving her any preference, nothing against her personally but the Greens and their fellow travellers are anathema to me. Won't take too long to fill in the European ballot paper though, about 6/7 strokes and that'll be it.
ďThe wrong side of historyĒ springs to mind
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 23, 2019, 02:19:03 PM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Sure itís easy to dismiss criticism of Shinner bashing. Is John Finucane being bashed? Maybe he has that bit more ability. Andersonís political track record does get challenged for a reason

As far as I recall Long voted against Syrian strikes but for Iraqi strikes and was able to link that differential to conditions on the ground and options available within the timescale. She made the point that strikes alone were insufficient. The 40 odd MPs to vote against what alternatives did they point to and how would they have addressed the mass slaughter being perpetuated by IS?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: currychip on May 23, 2019, 03:00:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Keyser soze on May 23, 2019, 03:12:32 PM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Sure itís easy to dismiss criticism of Shinner bashing. Is John Finucane being bashed? Maybe he has that bit more ability. Andersonís political track record does get challenged for a reason

As far as I recall Long voted against Syrian strikes but for Iraqi strikes and was able to link that differential to conditions on the ground and options available within the timescale. She made the point that strikes alone were insufficient. The 40 odd MPs to vote against what alternatives did they point to and how would they have addressed the mass slaughter being perpetuated by IS?

So what is the difference in the bombs Naomi dropped and the ones Martina planted?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 23, 2019, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

Twitter is twitter and not reflective of general society. As someone who's canvassed and worked for SDLP can I certainly say we get our fair share vitriol from Republicans and Unionists.

I'm Irish and proud to be Irish. It's part of who I am and I don't see why it should be left at the door when talking about anything.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 23, 2019, 04:38:05 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: general_lee on May 23, 2019, 06:04:56 PM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Sure itís easy to dismiss criticism of Shinner bashing. Is John Finucane being bashed? Maybe he has that bit more ability. Andersonís political track record does get challenged for a reason

As far as I recall Long voted against Syrian strikes but for Iraqi strikes and was able to link that differential to conditions on the ground and options available within the timescale. She made the point that strikes alone were insufficient. The 40 odd MPs to vote against what alternatives did they point to and how would they have addressed the mass slaughter being perpetuated by IS?
Yes he got bashed quite publicly in the wake of becoming Lord Mayor by a so-called journalist/author promptly followed by a loyalist death threat.

I donít think the UK has any business in the Middle East full stop so Iíd prefer an MP that voted against all forms of military attacks abroad.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 24, 2019, 12:55:21 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.




Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 24, 2019, 04:45:06 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.

You see this is exactly where you go wrong.  I shouldn't have to point this out to you but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I've presented both the positive and negative case for both and attempted to present an objective view as I see it.

You (and your fellow one-trick ponies in the SDLP) only EVER present the negative regarding SF.  And when someone only ever does that, it means that objectivity has gone out the window and it's just dogma.

Edit.

I'm sure you'll not be distraught to learn this... but you didn't get a transfer from me in the end, primarily because of this nonsense and McCrossan's lying swipe at Naomi Long earlier in the week.  Claire Bailey was the beneficiary.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 06:49:16 AM
I see Rte are publishing some exit polls. Surely thatís illegal at this stage??
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 06:56:03 AM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Raymond McCreesh Park. I always considered that a failure to stand up to SF but if you are telling me itís reflective of wider SDLP policy I will have to take your word for it and bear that in mind for the future

I did not say that nationalism or unionism were baggage per se. But I did use the word ďunrelatedĒ. Voting for the best nationalist candidate as opposed to the best candidate for a role that has relative impact on the nationalist/unionist debate probably is baggage though
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tubberman on May 25, 2019, 06:56:21 AM
I see Rte are publishing some exit polls. Surely thatís illegal at this stage??

Why? Suee the voting is over so it can't affect the outcome.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 07:00:08 AM
I see Rte are publishing some exit polls. Surely thatís illegal at this stage??

Why? Suee the voting is over so it can't affect the outcome.

Still going on elsewhere.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 07:21:06 AM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Sure itís easy to dismiss criticism of Shinner bashing. Is John Finucane being bashed? Maybe he has that bit more ability. Andersonís political track record does get challenged for a reason

As far as I recall Long voted against Syrian strikes but for Iraqi strikes and was able to link that differential to conditions on the ground and options available within the timescale. She made the point that strikes alone were insufficient. The 40 odd MPs to vote against what alternatives did they point to and how would they have addressed the mass slaughter being perpetuated by IS?

So what is the difference in the bombs Naomi dropped and the ones Martina planted?

Naomi dropping bombs is she?

I donít actually know what bombs Martina was involved in but  we all know and she accepts that for many years she was part of the GB bombing crew and that they and she personally was tooled up for serious action at the time of their arrest. We know they were headed for London and we know what their London targets were before - shopping streets. Lovely

Naomiís reasons for voting against air strikes in Syria and in favour of targeted strikes on the locations in Iraq from where IS weíre launching their own strikes on barricaded-in civilian populations are a matter of public record. They include the absence of short term alternatives and the other steps that would need to be taken to ensure the strikes would not need to be ongoing. They do not include the need for the strikes to be routed through a multinational alliance and comply with international law but that was implied in the the phrasing of the motion she was voting on
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 07:29:39 AM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

Twitter is twitter and not reflective of general society. As someone who's canvassed and worked for SDLP can I certainly say we get our fair share vitriol from Republicans and Unionists.

I'm Irish and proud to be Irish. It's part of who I am and I don't see why it should be left at the door when talking about anything.

My issue is with people who need to involve their nationalism and unionism in EVERYTHING - hence my use of the word ďunrelated ď

We have parties who construct school buildings to be shared amongst catholics and Protestants. But the kids schools have different names, teachers, uniforms, admissions criteria, curricula- just a shared roof and IT suite.  Do those politicians need to leave their baggage at the door - yes

We have politians who demand the social housing is planned, built and allocated not on absolute need but on sectarian quota who preserve the sectarian mix of an area and dare I say constituency. Leave that baggage at the door.

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 07:40:56 AM

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Donít make the mistake of confusing my view with that of Alliance. I have already said Iím not a member and have referenced a few candidates I would vote for over an Alliance candidate based upon ability

You only have to look at the posts of SF supporting posters here. Can we take their repeated positions ( as opposed to an expression that some have chosen to wilfully misinterpret) as SF positions? We can have great fun if thatís the case
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 07:47:02 AM
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Sure itís easy to dismiss criticism of Shinner bashing. Is John Finucane being bashed? Maybe he has that bit more ability. Andersonís political track record does get challenged for a reason

As far as I recall Long voted against Syrian strikes but for Iraqi strikes and was able to link that differential to conditions on the ground and options available within the timescale. She made the point that strikes alone were insufficient. The 40 odd MPs to vote against what alternatives did they point to and how would they have addressed the mass slaughter being perpetuated by IS?
Yes he got bashed quite publicly in the wake of becoming Lord Mayor by a so-called journalist/author promptly followed by a loyalist death threat.

I donít think the UK has any business in the Middle East full stop so Iíd prefer an MP that voted against all forms of military attacks abroad.

What was the public bashing- I missed it.

Followed the death threat story. Utterly reprehensible. We need to do more to expose the thugs behind that sort of thing and establish what sort of support they have

Are you saying there is no circumstances anywhere in the world where international intervention is justified?  Talk me through the alternatives in Iraq at the time or would you wash your hands of the plight of those hemmed in by IS on all sides and being shelled from the sky
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 25, 2019, 07:51:46 AM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.

You see this is exactly where you go wrong.  I shouldn't have to point this out to you but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I've presented both the positive and negative case for both and attempted to present an objective view as I see it.

You (and your fellow one-trick ponies in the SDLP) only EVER present the negative regarding SF.  And when someone only ever does that, it means that objectivity has gone out the window and it's just dogma.

Edit.

I'm sure you'll not be distraught to learn this... but you didn't get a transfer from me in the end, primarily because of this nonsense and McCrossan's lying swipe at Naomi Long earlier in the week.  Claire Bailey was the beneficiary.

Why do the ďnegativesĒ of SF have to be endured by the electorate at all?

Perhaps if you could objectively set out the negatives of SF we could send them off to Marylou and ask her to root out all those things. Then we would be left with the positives and all the better for it. Hooray
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 25, 2019, 08:25:10 AM
Silly question which could be asked about any political party, in any country, ever.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 25, 2019, 08:28:16 AM

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Donít make the mistake of confusing my view with that of Alliance. I have already said Iím not a member and have referenced a few candidates I would vote for over an Alliance candidate based upon ability

You only have to look at the posts of SF supporting posters here. Can we take their repeated positions ( as opposed to an expression that some have chosen to wilfully misinterpret) as SF positions? We can have great fun if thatís the case

Nice bit of wriggling but you didnít put it across as your view, you said explicitly that this was the view of the Alliance Party.  So either it is the view of Alliance or you were spouting nonsense.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: The Trap on May 25, 2019, 10:13:21 AM
Only 47% turnout at a time when nationalists are talking about a border poll, unionists about protecting the union and the threats or opportunities presented by brexit depending on your view.
Do people not care?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 25, 2019, 03:56:19 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.

You see this is exactly where you go wrong.  I shouldn't have to point this out to you but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I've presented both the positive and negative case for both and attempted to present an objective view as I see it.

You (and your fellow one-trick ponies in the SDLP) only EVER present the negative regarding SF.  And when someone only ever does that, it means that objectivity has gone out the window and it's just dogma.

Edit.

I'm sure you'll not be distraught to learn this... but you didn't get a transfer from me in the end, primarily because of this nonsense and McCrossan's lying swipe at Naomi Long earlier in the week.  Claire Bailey was the beneficiary.


It's your vote. You use it as you see fit. BTW I wan't running so it was impossible to transfer to me.

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 25, 2019, 03:57:38 PM
From the Electoral Office.

European Parliamentary Election - Thursday 23 May 2019

Turnout figures

Electoral Region   
Eligible Electorate: 1,278,951   
Votes Polled: 577,275
Turnout (%): 45.14

Quota = (577,275 / (3 +1)) + 1 = 144320

Low turnout aided by issues in getting postal and proxy votes because the deadline for application was too early for many people.

It will be interesting to see which parts of the electorate stayed at home.

Were UUP voters left with little motivation by Danny Kennedy's lack lustre approach?

Have the non-aligned parties moved on while others have not managed to get their vote out?

Have republicans and nationalists lost ground in their efforts to provide evidence that there is a demand for a border poll?



Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 25, 2019, 03:59:09 PM
Looks like a poor enough election in the South for SF if the exit polls are accurate.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 25, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
From the Electoral Office.

European Parliamentary Election - Thursday 23 May 2019

Turnout figures

Electoral Region   
Eligible Electorate: 1,278,951   
Votes Polled: 577,275
Turnout (%): 45.14

Quota = (577,275 / (3 +1)) + 1 = 144320

Low turnout aided by issues in getting postal and proxy votes because the deadline for application was too early for many people.

It will be interesting to see which parts of the electorate stayed at home.

Were UUP voters left with little motivation by Danny Kennedy's lack lustre approach?

Have the non-aligned parties moved on while others have not managed to get their vote out?

Have republicans and nationalists lost ground in their efforts to provide evidence that there is a demand for a border poll?

Be interesting to see which parties / constituencies are affected by this.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: mrdeeds on May 25, 2019, 05:22:01 PM
Looks like a poor enough election in the South for SF if the exit polls are accurate.

Might have no councillors in Cavan.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2019, 06:00:20 PM
From the Electoral Office.

European Parliamentary Election - Thursday 23 May 2019

Turnout figures

Electoral Region   
Eligible Electorate: 1,278,951   
Votes Polled: 577,275
Turnout (%): 45.14

Quota = (577,275 / (3 +1)) + 1 = 144320

Low turnout aided by issues in getting postal and proxy votes because the deadline for application was too early for many people.

It will be interesting to see which parts of the electorate stayed at home.

Were UUP voters left with little motivation by Danny Kennedy's lack lustre approach?

Have the non-aligned parties moved on while others have not managed to get their vote out?

Have republicans and nationalists lost ground in their efforts to provide evidence that there is a demand for a border poll?

Be interesting to see which parties / constituencies are affected by this.
:-X I could take a stab at it
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 26, 2019, 03:35:48 AM
Looks like a poor enough election in the South for SF if the exit polls are accurate.
It was a shit election for SF a lot of it due to a bad leader.
Pearse Doherty was the choice they should have made.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: andoireabu on May 26, 2019, 09:19:04 AM
Question about transfers. How do the extra votes get transferred when someone hits the quota? I know they go to the person with the no. 2 on the paper but is it down to pot luck which votes are the 'extra' votes? Say i voted no. 1 for candidate A and no. 2 for candidate B and the person after me votes no.1 for A and no. 2 for C. If my vote is the one that gets A to the quota then the second voter has their vote transferred to C. However if the 2nd voters vote is the one that makes the quota then my vote gets transferred to B. Or am I away off the mark completely?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Shamrock Shore on May 26, 2019, 09:41:10 AM
Sinn Fein are on the way down and there is no floor visible.

Mary Lou and yer wan up North are very weak electorally.

Greens will enjoy their bounce - and while it is only local councils - they will still find that enthusiasm and re-usable coffee cups will only get them so far around the council chamber. 

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 26, 2019, 09:43:04 AM
Question about transfers. How do the extra votes get transferred when someone hits the quota? I know they go to the person with the no. 2 on the paper but is it down to pot luck which votes are the 'extra' votes? Say i voted no. 1 for candidate A and no. 2 for candidate B and the person after me votes no.1 for A and no. 2 for C. If my vote is the one that gets A to the quota then the second voter has their vote transferred to C. However if the 2nd voters vote is the one that makes the quota then my vote gets transferred to B. Or am I away off the mark completely?

In some systems it's like that yes.
But here (north anyway, and I'm nearly sure south too), they transfer down the votes as a proportion. The breakdown of 2s will be applied to the surplus and distributed. So say for example the quota is 8000 and I get 10000 first preferences. 5000 of my first preferences (half) had candidate B as a 2. In this case 1000 votes will transfer down as it's half the surplus if that makes sense.
If 2500 of my votes had candidate C as a 2, then 500 votes would be transferred.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2019, 09:45:05 AM
In the North they distribute the votes as a proportion, in the South they take the required number from different boxes.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: macdanger2 on May 26, 2019, 10:36:13 AM
In the North they distribute the votes as a proportion, in the South they take the required number from different boxes.

In the local elections, they recount the entire amount of ballots and distribute them pro rata - at least that's what they said on the radio last night
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 26, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
Sinn Fein are on the way down and there is no floor visible.

Mary Lou and yer wan up North are very weak electorally.

Greens will enjoy their bounce - and while it is only local councils - they will still find that enthusiasm and re-usable coffee cups will only get them so far around the council chamber.

Yes. SF's plan for power in the 26 not materialising. Not one bit surprised as I don't likr Mary Lou at all. FF back again it seems on local elections anyway.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 11:31:06 AM
Sinn Fein are on the way down and there is no floor visible.

Mary Lou and yer wan up North are very weak electorally.

Greens will enjoy their bounce - and while it is only local councils - they will still find that enthusiasm and re-usable coffee cups will only get them so far around the council chamber.
Maybe
But we're 10 years and more behind the rest of europe on the environment and climate change
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 26, 2019, 11:33:15 AM
Sinn Fein are on the way down and there is no floor visible.

Mary Lou and yer wan up North are very weak electorally.

Greens will enjoy their bounce - and while it is only local councils - they will still find that enthusiasm and re-usable coffee cups will only get them so far around the council chamber.

Yes. SF's plan for power in the 26 not materialising. Not one bit surprised as I don't likr Mary Lou at all. FF back again it seems on local elections anyway.

True, they'll have to take stock and review.  All the clamour to get Adams out and  put someone more 'softer'  in charge has failed.
 
Presidential election was poor and Thursday was very poor.  Where do SF go from here in south? 

Some amount of independents in some of the ballot papers - are mainstream parties not concentrating on local issues?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 26, 2019, 11:36:49 AM
Opportunity for the Greens and Labour to join forces as a real left force and can differntiate themselves from the looney left.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 26, 2019, 01:34:47 PM
In the 26 if you had a surplus in Count 1 they divide all the votes and distribute the surplus pro rata.
In subsequent counts it's a "random sample" ,in practice you simply take the required no of ballot papers off the top of the bundle.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 26, 2019, 05:05:51 PM
SF are a very left, Marxist/ Communist party. Protest vote at best. Theyíve found their level.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 26, 2019, 07:17:54 PM
Can Mary Lou survive this disastrous election? 12 points down in Dublin! 9 in Cork! Talk that they may not hold any of the MEP seats! The nutting squad will be looking for her head I'd suspect!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 26, 2019, 09:52:47 PM
Can Mary Lou survive this disastrous election? 12 points down in Dublin! 9 in Cork! Talk that they may not hold any of the MEP seats! The nutting squad will be looking for her head I'd suspect!

Now now. If Martina Anderson loses her seat it would be beyond a shock.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: macdanger2 on May 26, 2019, 09:55:07 PM
Fairly depressing that this three councillors featured on the prime time investigates program got reelected  :-\
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 26, 2019, 09:56:58 PM
Can Mary Lou survive this disastrous election? 12 points down in Dublin! 9 in Cork! Talk that they may not hold any of the MEP seats! The nutting squad will be looking for her head I'd suspect!

She'll survive - time for serious reflection I'd say.   Doesn't bode well for GE...whenver Leo calls it.  Could be sooner than you think.

I wonder what will Aontķ's % share will be?

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 26, 2019, 10:10:01 PM
Fairly depressing that this three councillors featured on the prime time investigates program got reelected  :-\

Saw that but housing crisis,/homelessness, hospital waiting lists and the new children's hospital issue doesn't seem to have any effect to FG/FG either.  Strange alright.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 26, 2019, 10:26:00 PM
Interesting first round in the Dublin euros.
Did Cuffe get a bit less than they were predicting?

Andrews 10-12k ahead of Daly and Boylan, but thereís a helluva lot of left votes below them to be distributed. Might get interesting. I fancy Daly to pass him out anyway and claim the 3rd seat
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Main Street on May 27, 2019, 12:19:51 AM
Opportunity for the Greens and Labour to join forces as a real left force and can differntiate themselves from the looney left.
The Greens and Labour, as currently constituted and coalesced could be a real left force?  as distinct from looney left?
Where can I find objective definitions of what constitutes "real left" and "loony left"?


 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: macdanger2 on May 27, 2019, 10:25:50 AM
Maria Bailey on the radio there, would be delighted if she loses her seat next time out
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 27, 2019, 10:51:58 AM
There is a lot of chatter that Jim Allister has polled very well and is in with a good chance of winning the 3rd seat. I hope theyíre wrong.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2019, 11:10:31 AM
Alliste won't win. Long will get some of Kennedy's transfers, if he is eliminated first, and almost all Eastwood's will end up with her.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 27, 2019, 11:34:52 AM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 27, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
Poor oul Diane would be out of a job if she had her way...
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2019, 11:38:35 AM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI

So basically DUP and SF can put up anyone and still get voted in?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: bennydorano on May 27, 2019, 11:48:37 AM
Wonder what Alliance's increase in % 1st preference is. She got my N1.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 27, 2019, 12:06:25 PM
Is there anywhere where you can see full count by count results for the south?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: andoireabu on May 27, 2019, 12:16:58 PM
Is there anywhere where you can see full count by count results for the south?

https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/results/#/european (https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/results/#/european)

Does it here for the euro vote but not the locals.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 27, 2019, 12:21:39 PM
Silly question which could be asked about any political party, in any country, ever.

Of course it can be asked of any party- so letís do that instead of dismissing it as a silly question. Some parties really donít like accountability

When someone claims to have presented an objective analysis of the positives and negatives itís perfectly fair and sensible to ask them to detail the negatives that they claim to have set out
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 27, 2019, 12:22:26 PM

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Donít make the mistake of confusing my view with that of Alliance. I have already said Iím not a member and have referenced a few candidates I would vote for over an Alliance candidate based upon ability

You only have to look at the posts of SF supporting posters here. Can we take their repeated positions ( as opposed to an expression that some have chosen to wilfully misinterpret) as SF positions? We can have great fun if thatís the case

Nice bit of wriggling but you didnít put it across as your view, you said explicitly that this was the view of the Alliance Party.  So either it is the view of Alliance or you were spouting nonsense.

My bad. Clumsy language on my part. Point taken
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 27, 2019, 12:24:03 PM
In the North they distribute the votes as a proportion, in the South they take the required number from different boxes.

That sounds very dodgy
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 27, 2019, 12:28:01 PM
Can Mary Lou survive this disastrous election? 12 points down in Dublin! 9 in Cork! Talk that they may not hold any of the MEP seats! The nutting squad will be looking for her head I'd suspect!

35% collapse in the SF vote is pretty emphatic

Leader, policy, quality of candidates, track record in office, protest vote trends would all be possible factors
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 27, 2019, 12:32:53 PM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI

Could be a long day if those numbers are accurate. SF and DUP are way short of 144k quota. TUV will transfer to DUP but where do SF get 47k transfers. Eastwood only has 55k transfers and on those numbers would only be eliminated on the final count?? Am I reading that correctly?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 27, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Wee Jeffrey reckons Long could possibly get 100,000 first preference votes. Remarkable if that happens and shows people did indeed vote tactically.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 27, 2019, 12:45:21 PM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI

So basically DUP and SF can put up anyone and still get voted in?

Has always been the case. Just take a close look at some of the candidates up for election or those elected for the Assembly and you see a dearth of intellectual depth hence when they are chosen at random to run multi-million pound ministries they are totally out of their depth.  Look at RHI for the DUP and the failures in agriculture, education and health to make any impact in 10 years in power by SF-DUP.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 27, 2019, 01:27:27 PM
Huge Northern Ireland EU Election result:
Anderson (SF) 126,951
Dodds (DUP) 124,991
Long (Alliance) 105,928
Eastwood (SDLP) 78,589
Allister (TUV) 62,021
Kennedy (UUP) 53,052
Bailey (Green) 12,471
Hill (UKIP) 5,115
Morrice (Ind) 1,719
McCann (Ind) 948
Singh Bhogal (Con) 662
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: dec on May 27, 2019, 02:36:45 PM
Anderson         (SF)       126,951        22.18%       N
Dodds           (DUP)       124,991        21.83%       U
Long       (Alliance)       105,928        18.50%       O
Eastwood       (SDLP)        78,589        13.73%       N
Allister        (TUV)        62,021        10.83%       U
Kennedy         (UUP)        53,052        9.27%        U
Bailey        (Green)        12,471        2.18%        O
Hill           (UKIP)         5,115        0.89%        U
Morrice         (Ind)         1,719        0.30%        O
McCann          (Ind)           948        0.17%        O
Singh Bhogal    (Con)           662        0.12%        U

Total Vote                  572,447               

Quota                       143,112               

Unionist                      42.95%               
Nationalist                   35.91%               
Other                         21.15%
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 27, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
For NI, as a comparison of the share of first preference votes from the 2014 EU election, with percentages rounded to the first decimal...

SF 22.2% (-3.3%)

DUP 21.8% (+0.9%)

APNI 18.5% (+11.4%)

SDLP 13.7% (+0.7%)

TUV  10.8% (-1.3%)

UUP 9.3% (-4.0%)

GPNI 2.2% (+0.5%)

UKIP 0.9% (-3.0%)

Morrice - Ind 0.3% (+0.3%)

McCann - Ind 0.2% (+0.2%)

CON 0.1% (-0.6%)

NI21 Not Standing (-1.7%)
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: smelmoth on May 27, 2019, 03:34:31 PM
Martina says SF strategically told people to not vote for them. A stratagem that was spectacularly successful in ROI
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 27, 2019, 03:44:02 PM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI

So basically DUP and SF can put up anyone and still get voted in?

Has always been the case. Just take a close look at some of the candidates up for election or those elected for the Assembly and you see a dearth of intellectual depth hence when they are chosen at random to run multi-million pound ministries they are totally out of their depth.  Look at RHI for the DUP and the failures in agriculture, education and health to make any impact in 10 years in power by SF-DUP.

It's true everywhere - even in the the south.  Look at the 3 from Primetime, never mind the mess around the children's hospital, the lengthening of waiting lists in hospitals and the housing ceisis - people still endorse FF and FG.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 27, 2019, 04:00:49 PM
Chris McGimpsey couldn't articulate the UUP position on Brexit so there was no hope of any of their voters understanding it. A shambles of an election for them. Overtaken by Jim Allister. It seems the moderate unionist has switched to Long who also appears to have taken some votes off SF.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 27, 2019, 04:08:10 PM
Chris McGimpsey couldn't articulate the UUP position on Brexit so there was no hope of any of their voters understanding it. A shambles of an election for them. Overtaken by Jim Allister. It seems the moderate unionist has switched to Long who also appears to have taken some votes off SF.
Longís high vote could be a lot to do with SF voters confident that Anderson would get elected anyway and wanting a 2nd Pro-remain seat.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2019, 07:15:38 PM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI

So basically DUP and SF can put up anyone and still get voted in?

Has always been the case. Just take a close look at some of the candidates up for election or those elected for the Assembly and you see a dearth of intellectual depth hence when they are chosen at random to run multi-million pound ministries they are totally out of their depth.  Look at RHI for the DUP and the failures in agriculture, education and health to make any impact in 10 years in power by SF-DUP.

It's true everywhere - even in the the south.  Look at the 3 from Primetime, never mind the mess around the children's hospital, the lengthening of waiting lists in hospitals and the housing ceisis - people still endorse FF and FG.
Maybe if the others had some practical policies or plans to improve things rather than protesting and shouting slogans.....
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 27, 2019, 07:19:11 PM
Long takes the second seat with Anderson in 3rd.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2019, 07:22:54 PM
Long takes the second seat with Anderson in 3rd.

Glad to hear a proper remainer got in, Iím actually not sure SF were a true remain party tbh
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: bennydorano on May 27, 2019, 07:29:14 PM
They're relatively recent converts to Europe / Remain, previously holding similar views to Corbyn's ideological take on it.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2019, 07:34:06 PM
They're relatively recent converts to Europe / Remain, previously holding similar views to Corbyn's ideological take on it.

Popular vote or against the DUP voters
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 27, 2019, 07:50:13 PM
1 Pro Brexit Anti EU
1 Anti Brexit Anti EU
1 Anti Brexit Pro EU

So a diverse mix.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 27, 2019, 09:32:29 PM
This from Darran Marshall, looking good for Long.

New

SDLP rallies suggest Diane Dodds will top the poll. UUP will lose seat.

Dodds 102,000
Anderson 97,000
Long 75,000
Eastwood 55,000
Allister 47,000
Kennedy 40,000
Bailey 7,000

#EuropeanElections2019
@BBCNewsNI

So basically DUP and SF can put up anyone and still get voted in?

Has always been the case. Just take a close look at some of the candidates up for election or those elected for the Assembly and you see a dearth of intellectual depth hence when they are chosen at random to run multi-million pound ministries they are totally out of their depth.  Look at RHI for the DUP and the failures in agriculture, education and health to make any impact in 10 years in power by SF-DUP.

It's true everywhere - even in the the south.  Look at the 3 from Primetime, never mind the mess around the children's hospital, the lengthening of waiting lists in hospitals and the housing ceisis - people still endorse FF and FG.
Maybe if the others had some practical policies or plans to improve things rather than protesting and shouting slogans.....

What's your point?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 28, 2019, 07:44:04 AM
SF candidate claims that they told voters to give their vote to Long to make sure she got in and that was why she was elected.

Except SF only got across the line for the third seat after Long was elected and SF didn't provide transfers to any other candidate, in fact except for SDLP transfers SF would not have reached the level they did to be elected on Stage 5 and may well have had to wait to be deemed elected without reaching the quota.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 28, 2019, 07:56:30 AM
SF candidate claims that they told voters to give their vote to Long to make sure she got in and that was why she was elected.

Except SF only got across the line for the third seat after Long was elected and SF didn't provide transfers to any other candidate, in fact except for SDLP transfers SF would not have reached the level they did to be elected on Stage 5 and may well have had to wait to be deemed elected without reaching the quota.

Wasnít Long as such, she said give it to a remain party, but theyíve all claimed a victory of sorts themselves while others have claimed something else.

The only party to get significant gains has been Longís party, thatís down to her as a person I feel, hopefully sheíll move that party forward in such a way that sheíll attract the sensible voters or the ones who sit on the fence or have never voted as there was no alternative
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on May 28, 2019, 08:07:55 AM
SF candidate claims that they told voters to give their vote to Long to make sure she got in and that was why she was elected.

Except SF only got across the line for the third seat after Long was elected and SF didn't provide transfers to any other candidate, in fact except for SDLP transfers SF would not have reached the level they did to be elected on Stage 5 and may well have had to wait to be deemed elected without reaching the quota.

I saw a chain message going through WhatsApp groups telling people to do exactly this
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: HiMucker on May 28, 2019, 08:20:30 AM
Is there anywhere you can see the breakdown of transfers? I thought I read that alliance got huge transfers from SDLP first preference voters, but can't find this info?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 28, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
What's going on between Clare Daly and Barry Andrews in Dublin. Caught a bit of a headline on it.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 28, 2019, 09:46:02 AM
Something about the order of distribution of votes of eliminated candidates it seems.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: oakleaflad on May 28, 2019, 10:06:50 AM
Is there anywhere you can see the breakdown of transfers? I thought I read that alliance got huge transfers from SDLP first preference voters, but can't find this info?

Yeah, it's all out there.

SDLP transfers:

Alliance - 46.453
SF - 24,236
TUV - 225
Non Transferable - 7,675
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: HiMucker on May 28, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
Is there anywhere you can see the breakdown of transfers? I thought I read that alliance got huge transfers from SDLP first preference voters, but can't find this info?

Yeah, it's all out there.

SDLP transfers:

Alliance - 46.453
SF - 24,236
TUV - 225
Non Transferable - 7,675
Cheers Oakleaf. Do you have a link for the rest of the figures? Thanks
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: oakleaflad on May 28, 2019, 10:22:46 AM
Is there anywhere you can see the breakdown of transfers? I thought I read that alliance got huge transfers from SDLP first preference voters, but can't find this info?

Yeah, it's all out there.

SDLP transfers:

Alliance - 46.453
SF - 24,236
TUV - 225
Non Transferable - 7,675
Cheers Oakleaf. Do you have a link for the rest of the figures? Thanks
I just took those from the Electoral Office NI's twitter account. Gives you the result of each stage and where the transfers went.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 28, 2019, 12:13:34 PM
Is there anywhere you can see the breakdown of transfers? I thought I read that alliance got huge transfers from SDLP first preference voters, but can't find this info?

Yeah, it's all out there.

SDLP transfers:

Alliance - 46.453
SF - 24,236
TUV - 225
Non Transferable - 7,675

What the actual fcuk?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: imtommygunn on May 28, 2019, 12:18:19 PM
 ;D

I was also thinking that.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hound on May 28, 2019, 12:27:53 PM
What's going on between Clare Daly and Barry Andrews in Dublin. Caught a bit of a headline on it.
If it was a 3 seater, Boylanís votes would be distributed and Daly would almost certainly come 3rd

But itís a 4 seater, then no requirement to distribute Boylanís votes, so Andrews comes 3rd and Daly 4th.

Obviously big difference in who comes 3rd and 4th given the latter doesnít take us their seat till after Brexit.

Fairness wise, to me it seems they should distribute Boylanís, but the letter of the law in how to perform a 4 seat count seems to favour Andrews. But itís not really 4 seater yet!

I had a feeling something like this might happen. They should really have clarified it beyond doubt before the election
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: oakleaflad on May 28, 2019, 12:55:13 PM
Is there anywhere you can see the breakdown of transfers? I thought I read that alliance got huge transfers from SDLP first preference voters, but can't find this info?

Yeah, it's all out there.

SDLP transfers:

Alliance - 46.453
SF - 24,236
TUV - 225
Non Transferable - 7,675

What the actual fcuk?
Actually thought that myself. There was 70-something transfers from the UUP to SF in the previous stage also.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: bennydorano on May 28, 2019, 01:02:39 PM
A fair percentage of those must be Foreign Nationals cant think of many other reasons for it other than not knowing the lie of the land.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Aristo 60 on May 28, 2019, 01:36:48 PM
A fair percentage of those must be Foreign Nationals cant think of many other reasons for it other than not knowing the lie of the land.

I hear you're a racist now, father!

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 28, 2019, 02:12:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.

You see this is exactly where you go wrong.  I shouldn't have to point this out to you but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I've presented both the positive and negative case for both and attempted to present an objective view as I see it.

You (and your fellow one-trick ponies in the SDLP) only EVER present the negative regarding SF.  And when someone only ever does that, it means that objectivity has gone out the window and it's just dogma.

Edit.

I'm sure you'll not be distraught to learn this... but you didn't get a transfer from me in the end, primarily because of this nonsense and McCrossan's lying swipe at Naomi Long earlier in the week.  Claire Bailey was the beneficiary.


It's your vote. You use it as you see fit. BTW I wan't running so it was impossible to transfer to me.

I did.  Thanks.

And judging by Colum's dismal showing, there were plenty more like me.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 28, 2019, 02:26:08 PM
A fair percentage of those must be Foreign Nationals cant think of many other reasons for it other than not knowing the lie of the land.
Not entirely unprecedented. Back in the 2014 EU election when Anderson topped the poll & cleared the quota, distributing the surplus votes revealed that over a thousand ballot papers that had her as their first preference had UKIP as their next eligible preference (only the Conservative candidate was eliminated before the surplus transfer) which meant that these papers had SF 1 & UKIP 2 or SF 1, Con 2 & UKIP 3!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on May 28, 2019, 02:51:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.

You see this is exactly where you go wrong.  I shouldn't have to point this out to you but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I've presented both the positive and negative case for both and attempted to present an objective view as I see it.

You (and your fellow one-trick ponies in the SDLP) only EVER present the negative regarding SF.  And when someone only ever does that, it means that objectivity has gone out the window and it's just dogma.

Edit.

I'm sure you'll not be distraught to learn this... but you didn't get a transfer from me in the end, primarily because of this nonsense and McCrossan's lying swipe at Naomi Long earlier in the week.  Claire Bailey was the beneficiary.


It's your vote. You use it as you see fit. BTW I wan't running so it was impossible to transfer to me.

I did.  Thanks.

And judging by Colum's dismal showing, there were plenty more like me.

Dismal? His vote was up on a lower turnout. But whatever suits your narrative!
 
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Franko on May 28, 2019, 03:44:18 PM
Any port in a storm I suppose.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 28, 2019, 04:21:42 PM

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trileacman on May 29, 2019, 12:09:47 AM
Iíd love to meet the 73 people who voted Danny Kennedy number one and SF number 2.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: omaghjoe on May 29, 2019, 12:36:16 AM
5 already been eliminated so not necessarily No.2s

Better than that....it seems like there was around 106 from the DUP?

Seems like too many for errors.... those have gotta been filled it after the fact?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 29, 2019, 12:39:13 AM
Jesus wept. Don't tell me Mick Wallace is going to be an MEP? I hope they have a dress code in Strasbourg.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 29, 2019, 01:17:17 AM
Our Mingeen has been there since 2014.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: marty34 on May 29, 2019, 08:05:37 AM
Over 21k spoilt votes in Midlands - North West from nearly 600k votes.

37k spoilt votes out of 720k votes in South.

Good that people are voting and no doubt, there are quite a few spoilt votes on purpose but I wonder what percentage of these are actually people not knowing how to 'vote' properly? i.e. maybe putting an X in one box or whatever.

Probably doesn't help when there's a ballot paper 2 foot long!!!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Hardy on May 29, 2019, 09:08:51 AM
I'd guess a large proportion of it consisted of people who went to vote in the local elections and the referendum and had no interest in/knowledge of the Euro candidates, so they just didn't bother filling in the Euro paper.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2019, 12:11:05 PM
Our Mingeen has been there since 2014.

Ming, Daly and Wallace
Plus a few Greens

Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: skeog on May 29, 2019, 03:39:07 PM
Top people tell it as it is good luck to them.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 29, 2019, 04:22:39 PM
Iíd love to meet the 73 people who voted Danny Kennedy number one and SF number 2.

Most of the odd voting transfers are simply down to errors on the ballot paper. It was a long paper and some in rushing to make their decision could easily have written opposite Anderson instead of Allister as they were beside each other.

Nowhere near as bad the mess in the south with so many blank ballots and invalid ballots.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: omaghjoe on May 29, 2019, 04:28:53 PM
Iíd love to meet the 73 people who voted Danny Kennedy number one and SF number 2.

Most of the odd voting transfers are simply down to errors on the ballot paper. It was a long paper and some in rushing to make their decision could easily have written opposite Anderson instead of Allister as they were beside each other.

Nowhere near as bad the mess in the south with so many blank ballots and invalid ballots.

Sorry for my cynicism/realism but would they not just have been left blank and got filled in afterwards?

On another point..... why isnt the ballot sheet fully read first time out, filled in a spreadsheet and let excel work out all the eventualities? Would be finished in half the time youd think?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 29, 2019, 05:01:34 PM
Votes aren't counted in secret!
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 29, 2019, 05:18:57 PM
Votes aren't counted in secret!

Sealed box leaves polling station. Box is opened up on to the table in front of your eyes (both count staff & party representives). Normally ballot box is taken to count straIght after poll closes. There is then a verification process whereby left over ballots are accounted for from each polling station & presumably that's tied in with number of votes cast. It's not fail safe but, from working on counts, there seem to be a number of checks & balances in place.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on May 29, 2019, 08:53:39 PM
Ming, Carty and Walsh elected.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owenmoresider on May 29, 2019, 10:23:25 PM
Over 21k spoilt votes in Midlands - North West from nearly 600k votes.

37k spoilt votes out of 720k votes in South.

Good that people are voting and no doubt, there are quite a few spoilt votes on purpose but I wonder what percentage of these are actually people not knowing how to 'vote' properly? i.e. maybe putting an X in one box or whatever.

Probably doesn't help when there's a ballot paper 2 foot long!!!
A mix of things really. There was a court case arising from one of the local election counts in 2014 that resulted in the whole count being recounted over 18 months later, but without changing the result. The upshot of it was that each ballot paper must have a number one marked on it to be valid, though I'm not sure if having only one X on it is still counted or not. What used to happen it seems is that people might mark 1,2,3 etc on the local election paper and carry on to the european paper, 4/5/6 etc. Seems silly but it happened. In that case the latter would no longer be counted as a valid vote. Also from being at counts you'd sometimes see people marking X's for more than one candidate, often beside the candidates of one party (someone who presumably wanted to vote for the FF/SF/FG ticket) without copping that it wouldn't count. And then there's the usual blank papers and the few with writing on it of whatever kind.

But the issues from the court case would seem to be part of the reason for so many papers being rejected.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on June 04, 2019, 06:44:55 PM
NŪ Riada has withdrawn her recount request and is now to be eliminated.
Her votes will be distributed tomorrow and will decide the order of the last 3 elected.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2019, 07:36:19 PM
NŪ Riada has withdrawn her recount request and is now to be eliminated.
Her votes will be distributed tomorrow and will decide the order of the last 3 elected.

You can't put a price on Democracy. But it's somewhere south of Ä1 million.
SF are in damage limitation mode and an expensive recount that they would lose anyway would not have helped.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 05, 2019, 06:24:07 PM
Wallace follows Daly over.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: RedHand88 on June 05, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
Who goes to the bother of going to vote and puts an empty ballot into the box?
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 06, 2019, 07:35:28 AM
It appears that people voted in local elections but couldn't be bothered to take the time to mark their ballot papers for the EU elections. Nothing more than sheer laziness or apathy or both.
Title: Re: Elections North and South
Post by: Rossfan on June 06, 2019, 09:10:44 AM
Free citizens making their free choices.