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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: screenexile on April 20, 2017, 12:20:03 PM

Title: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: screenexile on April 20, 2017, 12:20:03 PM
Astounding!!!

Many people have said this type of thing would never happen but this is just the start!! Really can't believe lads are withdrawing from their club for a match a week away. Crazy crazy situation!!

http://www.the42.ie/dublin-u21-football-2-3348651-Apr2017/
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Esmarelda on April 20, 2017, 12:55:15 PM
The other side of it is that it's an All-Ireland final and maybe the club games should have been put off for a fortnight.

I don't find it astounding at all.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2017, 01:31:24 PM
The majority of those players will probably never play in an All Ireland Final again, I don't find it unusual at all they don't want to play championship between now and the final which is only 10 days away.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: The Trap on April 20, 2017, 01:36:42 PM
Esmarelda and Maroon Manc typify all that is wrong with the GAA - put the elite on a pedestal and feck the rest!
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Syferus on April 20, 2017, 01:44:07 PM
Correct choice in another ridiculous situation poor scheduling has forced on players.

More players need to vote with their feet and maybe the officials will cop on and realise the schedule needs serious work rather than simply paying lip service to the idea. Clubs are just like county teams in that all they really want is their pound of flesh. Player welfare comes last in all but a few clubs and indeed county teams.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Thastheball on April 20, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
Esmarelda and Maroon Manc typify all that is wrong with the GAA - put the elite on a pedestal and feck the rest!

That's a bit harsh, so you honestly expect an u21, forget about that, take any player to risk playing in a club match a week before an All Ireland final. As one poster correctly said that could and probably will be their last and maybe only time to play in game at that level, meanwhile they could play club championship for the next 15 yrs if they wanted.

Its so sad that their CB haven't protected them for the abuse some will heap on them. There clubs should also be very angry with the CB for placing there own players in a situation that the players can't win, just shocking fair from the Dublin CB. An All Ireland u21 final, a once in a life time opportunity.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Thastheball on April 20, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
Astounding!!!

Many people have said this type of thing would never happen but this is just the start!! Really can't believe lads are withdrawing from their club for a match a week away. Crazy crazy situation!!

http://www.the42.ie/dublin-u21-football-2-3348651-Apr2017/

You can't believe it, like, seriously, you can't?
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: AZOffaly on April 20, 2017, 01:53:40 PM
Correct choice in another ridiculous situation poor scheduling has forced on players.

More players need to vote with their feet and maybe the officials will cop on and realise the schedule needs serious work rather than simply paying lip service to the idea. Clubs are just like county teams in that all they really want is their pound of flesh. Player welfare comes last in all but a few clubs and indeed county teams.

Clubs want their pound of flesh? How about clubs just want to play their f**king games? Pound of flesh my arse. Clubs hardly see county players for training from one end of the year to the other, and they get them for games whenever it doesn't impact on the county team. I have sympathy for these players, it's a terrible position they are in, but blaming the clubs for wanting their pound of flesh is just hyperbole and completely at odds with reality.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Syferus on April 20, 2017, 01:55:55 PM
Correct choice in another ridiculous situation poor scheduling has forced on players.

More players need to vote with their feet and maybe the officials will cop on and realise the schedule needs serious work rather than simply paying lip service to the idea. Clubs are just like county teams in that all they really want is their pound of flesh. Player welfare comes last in all but a few clubs and indeed county teams.

Clubs want their pound of flesh? How about clubs just want to play their f**king games? Pound of flesh my arse. Clubs hardly see county players for training from one end of the year to the other, and they get them for games whenever it doesn't impact on the county team. I have sympathy for these players, it's a terrible position they are in, but blaming the clubs for wanting their pound of flesh is just hyperbole and completely at odds with reality.

I see county lads playing U21 championship on a Saturday and being 'asked' to line out for the club in a league match the next day regularly. Same happens at minor county for minor league games the next day too. It would be comical if it wasn't so stone age when it comes to player saftey.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Fuzzman on April 20, 2017, 02:06:43 PM
All players strive to become the best they can and play in All Ireland finals surely. Coming from a club with two players who played in many AI finals, you are very proud of them and want them to reach the pinnacle.

Are some people saying they should risk that final step by playing a club game which can be rescheduled?
We all say we need to put the players needs first and to me it is a no brainer that players get a week off before the biggest game of their life.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: AZOffaly on April 20, 2017, 02:08:43 PM
You regularly see County U21 Championship players being asked to play league matches the next day? Regularly? Do you mean regularly, or frequently. Because it can't really be frequently because they don't have that many championship games.

Or do you mean club u21 championship and club senior league games? That's hardly the club looking for a pound of flesh, that's a club looking to field a team.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: AZOffaly on April 20, 2017, 02:10:24 PM
All players strive to become the best they can and play in All Ireland finals surely. Coming from a club with two players who played in many AI finals, you are very proud of them and want them to reach the pinnacle.

Are some people saying they should risk that final step by playing a club game which can be rescheduled?
We all say we need to put the players needs first and to me it is a no brainer that players get a week off before the biggest game of their life.

I'm sure the clubs would prefer to postpone their game. Dublin championship is straight knockout, so it should be possible, even for a midweek fixture the week after.

This is a county board fixture issue, not a club issue.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: screenexile on April 20, 2017, 02:14:23 PM
Astounding!!!

Many people have said this type of thing would never happen but this is just the start!! Really can't believe lads are withdrawing from their club for a match a week away. Crazy crazy situation!!

http://www.the42.ie/dublin-u21-football-2-3348651-Apr2017/

You can't believe it, like, seriously, you can't?

I really can't and maybe that's why Derry are where we are because I know that very few if any Derry players would not play for their Club if forced to make a choice.

10 days is 10 days. The World Cup/Rugby World Cup all kinds of sports will play games within a 7 day period I don't see why they can't play both and shouldn't be allowed to. Sure they could get injured but equally they could get injured playing a game in training. It's a bullshit situation being handled very poorly!
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2017, 02:17:38 PM
Its also poor scheduling from the Dublin County board, Dublin don't play again until the first weekend in June. Surely they could have foreseen their u21's getting to the final given how dominant they've been in recent years?
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Syferus on April 20, 2017, 02:23:41 PM
You regularly see County U21 Championship players being asked to play league matches the next day? Regularly? Do you mean regularly, or frequently. Because it can't really be frequently because they don't have that many championship games.

Or do you mean club u21 championship and club senior league games? That's hardly the club looking for a pound of flesh, that's a club looking to field a team.

All of the above.

If a club is relying on two or three minors or u21s to field a senior club side the jig is already up and they should be looking to amalgamate, not risk running young lads into the ground for relatively meaningless games.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: rosnarun on April 20, 2017, 02:24:08 PM
the time is surely near whenr county players will not play for their clubs while on the county panel except with special permission as they are not getting on the matchday squad .
upside
if that were to happen clubs could then contentedly go about their own business.
downside
in counties with weak teams players may not be willing to join the county panel causing the county to fall further behind.

 which would you prefer to take a hammering at county and get abuse and be the butt of jokes or play in a county championship you think you might win ?
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: AZOffaly on April 20, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Well you can't mean County players because a) they don't have many u21 championship matches, and b) u21 championships are nearly all midweek.

And if you are seriously suggesting that clubs need to fold up tents if they need u21s to field teams, then you are absolutely raving. I'd say 80% of the clubs in Ireland use u21s to play on their adult teams.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Estimator on April 20, 2017, 02:29:47 PM
Some of those lads (Basquel, as an example) would have played 3 Sigerson Cup games (Quarter Final, Semi Final, Final) inside 10 days back in February. I'm sure that they didn't think twice about it then.

Donegal attempted to get their semi-final with Dublin postponed as it came only 5 days after their Ulster final victory over Derry.  They were told that this couldn't happen as Dublin had their 1st Round of Club Championship matches scheduled for the following week.  Now these lads have pulled out of the Club C'ship.  I'm sure the Donegal lads wouldn't be impressed with this.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: The Trap on April 20, 2017, 02:34:42 PM
I know - postpone the under 21 final until about October time and play away at the club championship! Ridiculous eh???????? That's what happens club players up and down the country!
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Syferus on April 20, 2017, 02:38:10 PM
Well you can't mean County players because a) they don't have many u21 championship matches, and b) u21 championships are nearly all midweek.

And if you are seriously suggesting that clubs need to fold up tents if they need u21s to field teams, then you are absolutely raving. I'd say 80% of the clubs in Ireland use u21s to play on their adult teams.

This applies to minors as well, and I don't know what you're talking about re U21s - there are several weekend U21 championship/league (club/county) and pre-season games every year. It happening at all should be a red flag for anyone that is trying to look after players.

Fielding a team should be far below the duty of care that clubs and county teams have but it's so obvious that the priorities are reversed for most teams.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: AZOffaly on April 20, 2017, 02:39:42 PM
Well you can't mean County players because a) they don't have many u21 championship matches, and b) u21 championships are nearly all midweek.

And if you are seriously suggesting that clubs need to fold up tents if they need u21s to field teams, then you are absolutely raving. I'd say 80% of the clubs in Ireland use u21s to play on their adult teams.

This applies to minors and seniors as well, and I don't know what you're talking about re U21s - there are several weekend U21 championship/league (club/county) and pre-season games every year. It happening at all should be a red flag for anyone that is trying to look after players.

Fielding a team should be far below the duty of care that clubs and county teams have but it's so obvious that the priorities are reversed in most teams.

County U21 Championship games are not played on a Saturday by and large.  You said you regularly see County U21 players playing league games the day after u21 Championship matches. I don't see that.

Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: stew on April 20, 2017, 02:41:22 PM
The club should always be the focal point of the asocuation, the clubs and county boards shoukd be workung together with the county management agreeing that they have to free players up for club games if the player wants to play for his club team.

To me the decision to play a club game a week before an AI final should be left up to the player himself, and he should never get dropped by either party for making that decision!
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Esmarelda on April 20, 2017, 03:43:48 PM
Esmarelda and Maroon Manc typify all that is wrong with the GAA - put the elite on a pedestal and feck the rest!
Yes, because that's exactly what we're trying to do.  ::)

As that other elitist Maroon Manc says in a subsequent post, as the Dublin Championship is knockout, this first round should have been scheduled after the U21AIF given Dublin's chances of reaching the final. They can easily catch up by playing club games in between their Leinster Senior Championship games such is the ease at which they should win them.
I know - postpone the under 21 final until about October time and play away at the club championship! Ridiculous eh???????? That's what happens club players up and down the country!
Does anyone disagree that this is ridiculous? What's ridiculous is your comparison of this scenario and what the Dublin players are being faced with this week.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: sid waddell on April 20, 2017, 04:20:41 PM
Total separation of the inter-county and club seasons is the only answer. The new schedule as and from next year probably doesn't go far enough in doing that.

Scheduling club championship games for "gaps" that may or may not occur is a fool's game.

Dessie Farrell is entirely correct to want his players together this weekend for preparation.

Farrell doesn't own them, but then again their clubs don't own them either, and the U-21 final is clearly more important.

The county board is obviously the main culprit here as this clash was entirely foreseeable.

Roll on the day when no senior club championship begins before August 1st. That's the way it should be and is the only way.

Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: magpie seanie on April 20, 2017, 04:33:51 PM
This is terrible stuff altogether. As always the club is the one that will suffer. I'm sure Mr Farrell had lads playing Sat/Sun and Wed during the Sigerson/NFL/Leinster Championship period and he got on with it. The rulebook is quite clear (rule 6.22 (a)) that 7 days is the maximum amount of time that players are restricted from playing for their clubs prior to an All-Ireland U21 Final and Mr Farrell is quite au fait with it. If he doesn't think it's adequate he had many years that he could have changed it. He's breaking the rules by stopping his players playing and carry on like this is the single biggest issue in our fixtures quagmire. And I'm sure that when the fixtures calendar was brought out Mr Farrell was aware of this. He probably just shrugged his shoulders and thought - if we get there I'll just pull the players.

People saying postpone the club games - do you know when they can be played? Should DCB use a free weekend that the other 99.5% of players might have planned something for at this stage? It's not ideal but the players should play their club games.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: 6th sam on April 20, 2017, 05:07:04 PM
This is terrible stuff altogether. As always the club is the one that will suffer. I'm sure Mr Farrell had lads playing Sat/Sun and Wed during the Sigerson/NFL/Leinster Championship period and he got on with it. The rulebook is quite clear (rule 6.22 (a)) that 7 days is the maximum amount of time that players are restricted from playing for their clubs prior to an All-Ireland U21 Final and Mr Farrell is quite au fait with it. If he doesn't think it's adequate he had many years that he could have changed it. He's breaking the rules by stopping his players playing and carry on like this is the single biggest issue in our fixtures quagmire. And I'm sure that when the fixtures calendar was brought out Mr Farrell was aware of this. He probably just shrugged his shoulders and thought - if we get there I'll just pull the players.

People saying postpone the club games - do you know when they can be played? Should DCB use a free weekend that the other 99.5% of players might have planned something for at this stage? It's not ideal but the players should play their club games.
What about the players? Young lads are  preparing for an All Ireland. Expecting them to go full tilt in club championship risking injury is unfair in my opinion, never mind diluting some of the all Ireland sparkle and enjoyment with this controversy and potential bad blood with the "clubs that reared them"
The only system that respects all and protects players is having periods where county squads are not available to their clubs but play several county games at their level. Club football goes ahead during these periods but only less prestigious club games. Then when the county season ( or block) is over all players return to their clubs for the prestigious fixtures e.g. Extended Championship . Anything short of this , will always create problems.
Again , the current system favours Dublin whose clubs ( due to their size) are unlikely to be as dependent on u21 players.
No disrespect to Dublin (and they've availed of their advantages well),  The GAA has created a monster and a two-tier system . With financial, numerical  and provincial discrimination as it stands , the GAA needs to be careful it doesn't bite off the hand that feeds it i.e. Rural Ireland .
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: ck on April 20, 2017, 05:55:30 PM
Dessie Farrell behind this move. Disgraceful and shoukd not be tolerated. Sooner the CPA get their act together the better.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2017, 06:32:00 PM
How would the CPA stop this?
They've already discovered fixture making is more complicated than they thought. (See Super 8s thread).
Dublin CB could have avoided this by playing their first 2 Rounds of Championship fixtures on 7/5 and 21/5. Another round 11/6.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: omagh_gael on April 20, 2017, 07:08:11 PM
This is the total fault of Dublin County board. How they lacked the foresight to see this potential clash is astonishing. All that needed to be done was hold off until next week and start the county championship. Now the players/clubs will take a pile of flack over a ridiculously difficult decision they were forced to take.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: ck on April 20, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
How would the CPA stop this?
They've already discovered fixture making is more complicated than they thought. (See Super 8s thread).
Dublin CB could have avoided this by playing their first 2 Rounds of Championship fixtures on 7/5 and 21/5. Another round 11/6.

CPA need to be heard. They have been ignored thus far. Club players strikes will be the only way they'll gain respect in Croke Park. I work with a county board provincial delegate and he just laughs at CPA as being toothless. This needs to change
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2017, 08:39:01 PM
CPA say they're talking to the GAA.
A strike by club players would be immaterial to the vast majority of people.
It would give refs and other match officials a grand holiday, it would save administrators having to go to fixtures meetings, prepare pitches, appoint ref's etcetera.
Then the players would have to play a load of back games......
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: mrdeeds on April 20, 2017, 08:54:33 PM
Ballyboden have u21s playing. One went of injured I think.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: omagh_gael on April 20, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
Shane Clayton off injured and Colm Basquell on in his place
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: magpie seanie on April 20, 2017, 11:45:03 PM
Fair play to the lads for playing for their club. Shows up the engineered statement for the PR bullshit that it was.

 Personally think it's wrong that they were put in this position and also that a club can be out of the championship in April.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Rossfan on April 21, 2017, 12:01:08 AM
Feckin mad playing a knock out Championship in April.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 21, 2017, 12:54:58 AM
Feckin mad playing a knock out Championship in April.
A bit daft alright.
Title: Re: Dublin U21's Withdraw from Club Championship
Post by: mrdeeds on April 21, 2017, 08:49:03 AM
The Dublin championship where the 2016 All Ireland champions next championship game is a year away and the opposition had three footballers of the year in their squad and could bring Tomas Corrigan of the bench.