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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Gold on April 04, 2017, 08:48:07 AM

Title: Gooch Retires
Post by: Gold on April 04, 2017, 08:48:07 AM
News this morning that Gooch is retiring from inter county scene

Time probably right after winning AI Club last month

What a player!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2017, 08:52:17 AM
Farewell Gooch.
He was one hell of a player.
Thanks for the memories.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Up The Middle on April 04, 2017, 08:54:08 AM
Him and Canavan are the two most naturally gifted forwards I have ever seen. Everything seemed to come so easy for both of them. Probably couldn't take another year of the muck that Football has become.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: orangeman on April 04, 2017, 09:00:16 AM
Poetry in motion.

Leaves with the whole collection of memories and medals. He had some career.

Thanks for the memories.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 04, 2017, 09:04:43 AM
One Kerryman I know says he's the best natural forward Kerry have produced in his lifetime. And he's over 60.

All the best Gooch, thanks for the (painful at times) memories.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: TabClear on April 04, 2017, 09:34:07 AM
Him and Canavan are the two most naturally gifted forwards I have ever seen. Everything seemed to come so easy for both of them. Probably couldn't take another year of the muck that Football has become.

Spot on.  Unfortunately they are now classed as forwards from a different era and kids today are unlikely to get to see their like again due to the current "systems".

Thanks for the memories Gooch
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: highorlow on April 04, 2017, 09:44:55 AM
The best player I have seen. Glad that he got his club medal this year.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 04, 2017, 09:52:56 AM
Very surprised. Thought he'd hang on for the summer at least. Ideal to being him on for the last 15 when bodies are starting to tire.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Fuzzman on April 04, 2017, 10:04:38 AM
Amazing player with 8 all stars, one behind Spillane and has five All-Ireland medals.
Surprisingly he has never won the All-Stars player of the year though did win the Texaco equivalent in 2004.

His first year was in 2002 when Armagh pipped them in the final and then Tyrone were to become one of his biggest rivals. Dublin of course have taken up that mantle in the last 5 or 6 years.
I'd say he's glad to be getting out of the modern game at intercounty level anyway as the game is a lot tougher now for forwards like him than back in the noughties.


Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 04, 2017, 10:24:48 AM
I saw that wonder goal against Mayo in 2011 in person. It was a great moment to be able to share with the father, watching the best player of his generation showcase his talents in the white heat of Croke Park in August.

Gooch had the touch of magic about him only the very best players have.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 04, 2017, 10:32:32 AM
Before the knee injury he was untouchable.
That robbed him of some of his agility and while he still had an amazing football brain and natural ability, his ability to twist & turn on a sixpence was diminished.
Always seemed to be thinking two steps ahead of the defender(s).
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: AZOffaly on April 04, 2017, 10:34:56 AM
The way he morphed into a playmaker was very impressive. His kick  passing is normally sublime, must have been a dream for O'Donoghue to be getting passes like that. I still rate Maurice Fitzgerald as the best, most natural, Kerry forward I've seen, but I'd put Gooch right beside John Egan just behind him. Fantastic player.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Buttofthehill on April 04, 2017, 10:54:22 AM
One of the best. Most recently, 1st half against Dublin in 2013, he was incredible.*








*Even though everybody forgets Connolly got MotM!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: omagh_gael on April 04, 2017, 10:58:02 AM
He scored a point against Sligo in '09 (when Sligo should missed the late penalty) where 4 or 5 Sligo men hung off him and Gooch kept twisting and turning. He looked like he was going to drop with exhaustion but somehow managed to fire it over from the right wing. A superb player and a gentleman to boot.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Shamrock Shore on April 04, 2017, 10:58:21 AM
Great player and a great lad off the pitch as well.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: magpie seanie on April 04, 2017, 11:44:26 AM
Quite simply one of the all time greats of the game. His brilliance in the FF line was known from early on but I remember the first time I saw him playing centre forward was for Crokes in an All-Ireland final against Crossmaglen where he was awesome in defeat if I remember correctly. The All Ireland final where he was the long, high ball target man (when everyone was thinking about Donaghy) and destroyed Mayo - he could simply do it all.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Main Street on April 04, 2017, 12:11:03 PM
I thought he still looked as sharp as ever in this year's club championship, semi-final and final.
He was just the perfect player.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: easytiger95 on April 04, 2017, 12:11:42 PM
Fabulous player, who knew when to stick the knife in.

He was brilliant against us in the 2007 semi final, again in the quarter final of 2009, startling earwigs as he went, and was magnificent in the first half in 2013. I'm glad we got a few good days against him.

As natural as Maurice Fitz and won more. The successor to Mikey Sheehy in terms of style and skill.

Don't have to worry about him coming in off the bench on Sunday now.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Declan on April 04, 2017, 12:29:13 PM
Great player and a pleasure to watch - agree with Seanie - his performance for Crokes against Crossmaglen in that final ranks in my mind as one of the best individual ones I've ever seen. Thanks for the memories Gooch and enjoy the retirement
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 04, 2017, 12:38:45 PM
Great Player! Hard to believe that it is 2009 since he won his last AI medal - 8 years ago, time is flying! At 34 he has made the correct decision. Kerry are in transition and Dublin looks streets ahead at the moment. Best time to call time and leave on a high.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 04, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
One of the best forwards in my time watching the game and  the most technically gifted player I've seen.

I can't imagine there's too many Kerrymen who've lost 5 Al Ireland finals, it's a strange record to have.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 04, 2017, 01:45:40 PM
Martin McHugh doesn't think that the Gooch is that good...


https://youtu.be/NTFldkyJJhM (https://youtu.be/NTFldkyJJhM)



Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 04, 2017, 01:51:56 PM
Did Brolly consider Colm Cooper a choker?


https://youtu.be/WyAZy4cM8uE (https://youtu.be/WyAZy4cM8uE)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 04, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
Who did Colm Cooper rate as the best backs to mark him?


https://youtu.be/p7Ggu2EGsu4 (https://youtu.be/p7Ggu2EGsu4)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: ziggysego on April 04, 2017, 01:58:17 PM
Some player, one of the all-time greats. Won just about everything going. I'll miss seeing him in action this summer.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: armaghniac on April 04, 2017, 02:05:34 PM
Quite simply one of the all time greats of the game. His brilliance in the FF line was known from early on but I remember the first time I saw him playing centre forward was for Crokes in an All-Ireland final against Crossmaglen where he was awesome in defeat if I remember correctly. The All Ireland final where he was the long, high ball target man (when everyone was thinking about Donaghy) and destroyed Mayo - he could simply do it all.

I saw Gooch in a new light against Cross' where he acted in a playmaker role which was a real extension of his traditional role with Kerry. Brilliant player.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
Top class player who would have won more if Tyrone and the Dubs hadn't been unbeatable from a Kerry point of view  . I think the Micko teams and their 8 all Irelands against all comers spoilt Kerry fans. I don't know if there has been a period before where Kerry were unable to beat not 1 but 2 great teams who came up one after the other.

He gets a few mentions in this article from 2009

LOCKERROOM SPECIAL: As the GAA championship starts to roll for another year, the reasons we love the games have never been so apparent, writes TOM HUMPHRIES .
1 THE LEGEND of Kilkenny's training games. The last time any of those boys heard a whistle blow was when their team bus pulled in at a level crossing. The train backed off by the way.
2 CHUCK NORRIS/Francie Bellew/Noel Hickey jokes.
Noel Hickey uses open-top buses as roller blades/ when Noel Hickey goes swimming he doesn't get wet the water gets Noel Hickey/ Noel Hickey keeps full forwards on his key ring. There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures that Noel Hickey has allowed to live.
3 JOE CANNING. Hurling's everyman. Don't ya love the first sight of him in early spring having been too well fed and watered over the Christmas. And then watching as he shrinks by instalments but grows with every game.
4 LOVE HIM or hate him it's hard to take your eyes off the inscrutable face of Mr Frank Murphy. Ever wonder who'd be president if himself and Pat Hickey were stranded together on a desert island?
5 THE APPLIANCE of science. From the days when Jimmy Keaveney or Bomber Liston would bring an overnight bag if they thought they'd be asked to do a lap at training the modern player is tending to his core fitness, his SAQ, his plyometrics, every passing fad.
6 KNOCK, KNOCK. Who's there?
Panther.
Panther who?
Panther no panth, leth pthlay pool boys.
The Roscommon footballers of course.
7 GAELIC GAMES has the real matinee idols. Wayne Rooney looks like he tried a 100-metre sprint in a hall 90 metres long, most rugby forwards look like they go bobbing for French fries. But the Gooch, ah the Gooch.
8POST-MATCH quotes from top intercounty hurling managers. They never say, well Marty I didn't actually see the incident. There's a something about the game but there's hardly a dull or a sane manager out there.
9 KIDS INVADING the pitch at half-time to play hurling any time there is a game in Parnell Park.
10 FITZGERALD STADIUM on a sunny day.
11 RUBBING SHOULDERS with the enemy. Okay, it's not the Algonquin Round Table all the time on the terraces or the stands but being herded in with your inferiors from a rival county gives you some perspective and some laughs. Segregation has made English soccer like that restaurant on the moon where the food is great but there is literally no atmosphere.
12THAT TINGLING you get in Semple Stadium at that moment when the referee is holding the ball in his hand waiting to throw it in. The maximum amount of pleasure plus time added on for injuries awaits you.
13 THE MOCK concern of certain Ulster defenders as they lean over their victims after the "accidental" collision! Like the old joke about what you get when you cross a pitbull with a collie? The answer being a dog that rips your leg off, then goes for help.
14 THE JUNIOR Bs. Slow as a wet week in Dundalk, they're permitting a film crew to remake Gorillas in the Mist in the showers after their games, they're smoking like chimneys, they're cursing like troopers, they're drinking enough to finance two clubs. And that's just the camogie girls.
15 THE SOAP opera disciplinary system. Where else does every disciplinary verdict finish with the words To Be Continued.
16 LANCE ARMSTRONG and other fairy tales of inspiration.
17 WE HARDLY blink anymore when a sideline cut goes over the bar.
18 CROKER!
19 AFTER-MATCH quotes. So much better than the wheel's spinning, but the hamster's asleep Gary, genre (see, for instance, Johnny Pilkington, The Anthology, or Watching My Words! A Babs Keating Collection.)
20 THE DECLINE of Leeds United makes all professional sports suspect.
21 THERE ARE few things more enjoyable in life than taking a batch of new hurls out of a car boot and talking bullshit to your mates about balance and grain and lightness and moisture content and linseed and banding and double banding and seasoning before giving the hurls out to the under-11 Bs.
22 BARRY BONDS. Michelle Smith. Linford Christie. Ben Johnson. Marion Jones and the gang.
23THE IRREPRESSIBILITY of GAA clubs, the unspoken philosophy that if you stand still you die. So you embrace debt and build the clubhouse, Pruntify the pitches, redo the dressingrooms, build a gym, put floodlights in, tear up one of the Prunty pitches and lay down an all-weather, put up a hurling wall and, well, it's time to redo the clubhouse. It goes on and on and on.
24HOW MANY rugby followers does it take to screw in a light bulb. Eighty two thousand. A thousand to screw it in while singing Ireland's Call. The other 81,000 to pretend that even though they wouldn't have known a year ago if the bulb was hand blown, blown up or solid, that they have always been passionate followers of the old light bulb installation game but this? This is history in the making, roysh.
25THE DUBLIN hurlers.
26 JOEY BARTON.
27 LA NA gClub! Hundreds of thousands of people yesterday running around doing stuff for free and for fun in the sunshine.
28 A FECKIN' farmer'd make a fortune on the land it takes him to turn.
29HERE'S A thing. As a way of meeting people and making friends it beats Bebo, Facebook, MSN and Twitter combined.
30 FOR AN association riddled with Fianna Fáilers, teachers and padres, the GAA operates on socialist principles. Take the money in and share it out as needed.
31HAIRY BABY T Shirts.
32 PAUL GALVIN. Never has one man been loathed by so many and coveted by so many.
He's a scut.
You'd love to have him though.
Ah jaysus ya would.
33 FAT LARRY. Gooch, The Rock and Fraggy Hero. Ricey . . . Cha. And Taggy. The Bull. Geezer. Gorta, Gah. Sparrow. Growler. Chunky and Star.
34 ROMAN ABRAMOVICH could buy the Prem. Nobody can buy Sam or Liam.
35 WINTER SYMPOSIUMS on just how the National League works this year.
36THE LITTLE man in the black coat who knows all the rules. And all the bylaws. And is on the comm-it-ay.
37 MODERN IRELAND. A church, a post office, two pubs, a school, a graveyard and the mother of all GAA complexes.
38 TWO STRANDS of braided wool in your county colours is the very definition of minimalist chic.
39 MICHEÁL Ó Muircheartaigh. Polite laughter at Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh impersonators.
40 THE GAA is still about where you're from. Pro sports is about whose laundry you like to follow.
41 HOW MANY GAA fans does it take to change a light bulb. One. But 45,000 to run on to the pitch afterwards.
42 SPEAKING OF which. Plan B. All stewards Plan B. Plan B.
43 THE FINE art of getting games called off.
44 THE LOST romance of the dual player.
45 WHERE ELSE can you have a breed of player good for nothing else really but able to go in and "bust up the play"
46 TWO SURE things about the footballer whose skills your companion has just admired. Ah he's a better hurler. And his brother was better but couldn't keep away from the drink.
47 EOIN QUIGLEY'S point against Kilkenny in 2005? Quick thinking without the speed bumps. Or the Rock's point against Limerick in '01? His finest moment of many or Carey's winner against Clare in '96. Ah, sit back, put them in order of merit and get back to us after a grand evening . . .
48 WET-DAY repartee. I didn't pay to see your effin' umbrella.
49 NO MATTER how much you know about the GAA you're only a bar stool away from a fella who knows twice as much.
50 LAR FOLEY stories.
51 JBM. Still and forever.
52 CLONES. IS there anything like the satisfaction of getting through the impregnable roadblocks and surly stewards and lock-and-load maors and making it to your seat. It's like breaking into Colditz.
53 LADS HAVE ye de slip. Have ye de slip. De fuckin' ref wants de slip. He won't take it after. Have ye de slip. Yerra warm up again.
54 BRIEGE CORKERY.
55 THE CORK hurlers. Say what you like but everyone benefited from 2002 and we'll miss them when they're gone.
56 CLUB CHAMPIONSHIPS. If ya really want to get to the heartbeat of Irish sport it's those days when the prawn sandwiches are nowhere to be seen but when everybody trudges along to see the club play championship. Nobody is ever really happy afterwards. The losers decide "we're worse than we ever were and that's saying something". The winners note flatly that "five points from play will be no good the next day".
57 CUMANN NA mBunscol finals. Honest to god. Take a day off and go along. Put the grin back on your fretful old adult face.
58 APART FROM the aberrant Mr Brolly, who threw kisses to the crowd without taking precautions, the average goalscorer in Gaelic games comports himself with the excitement of a young lad making his Confirmation in a suit that is slightly embarrassing for all the attention it draws. We have yet to see a player run to the flag out the corner and get jjggy jiggy with it. For that small mercy much thanks.
59 I WANT ya to stick to him like shite to a blanket.
60 GAA PLAYERS don't manufacture rumours of moves to other counties.
61 LAST MAN Standing. Hurling, the Revolution Years. House Of Pain. Kings of September and so on. The great Irish sports books these days are all GAA books.
62 HEY 14, ya wouldn't get a kick in a ****ing stampede.
63 YOUR GAA hero doesn't live in a gated community quarantined from the rest of the world. He's there doing the same jobs as we do (well, usually something more dignified than this job), going to the same shops and driving the same cars.
64 THE MINI leagues on a Saturday morning. Hundreds of kids in little helmets, clutching sticks and running around like a startled colony of ants.
65 LOOKING AT the mini leagues on a Saturday morning and saying things like "ah it's great to see" and "the little fella with the red helmet, he's a dinger so he is".
66 GAA TEAMS have hangers-on but no security personnel or bodyguards.
67 (SLOWLY AT first but getting quicker) Come. . . on . . . ye . . . boys . . . in . . .blue, come on ye boys in blue, comeonyeboys come on ye boys in blue.
68 BECAUSE WE don't need any external validation to know that Sheff or the Gooch or Ro Fallon are special. And that's just three gingers who came to mind.
69 BECAUSE IN the GAA there is no such thing as obesity. Merely the size to do a bit of damage in at full forward.
70 THE MAN with the vintage radio surgically welded on to his ear giving reports from other games. Meath is two points down. No, goal Meath. No Kildare. No square ball. Meath is two points down.
71 THE SUSPENSION of all parking laws and the sheer creativity of the parking at rural GAA games. Stop your tut-tutting, there should be grants for this sort of thing.
72 NO MATTER how naff your county jersey is, no matter how tightly it fits some days you have to wear it because you love it and you love where you are from.
73 ALL STAR posters. Part of what we are.
74 WHEN THE show trials start and the bankers are pleading for clemency there shall be indeed be mercy shown to the AIB person who came up with the "One Life, One Club" campaign. Other than that we are very sorry lads . . .
75 SITTING IN the club and working out exactly where all the good minors did go.
76 THE BEST under-15 going in goals for the under-21s.
77 MONDAY MORNING in school if your county has won the All-Ireland the previous day or if the parish won the county championship. Monday morning in school if the teacher's county won the All-Ireland the previous day or if the teacher's club won the county championship the previous day. Monday morning in school if the teacher's county lost the All-Ireland the previous day or the teacher's club lost the county final the previous day.
78 BY JESUS if they'd All-Irelands for being ugly ye'd be the dream team.
79 THE GAA museum at Croker. Some of the stuff they have even pre-dates the Heineken Cup.
80 THE GAFFER. Never would have happened if Steve had stuck with playing for Louth.
81 THE POLICE don't hold the away fans back in the stadium for up to an hour after games. Even in Cork.
82 THE SORT of body contact that would put Cristiano Ronaldo in intensive care for a week takes place during the warm-up for most teams in Croker now.
83 THE WAY the GAA saves us from the curse of global homogeneity. So what if we play something different.
84 THE WAY the GAA saves us from the curse of internal homogeneity. Would Cork and Kerry have separate identities were it not for the GAA. Would Meath and Kildare and Wicklow be anything other than the home counties with Dublin playing the role of London.
85 PADDY'S DAY has been saved by the club finals.
86 SEEING HOW many kids you can get into a car going to a match.
Yes, I know Garda but it's a county under-12 semi-final and they're late.
Okay. I'll put the siren on. You follow.
87 FÉILE NA nGael
88 BEING OF a certain age which entitles you to sentimentalise about Wavin hurleys and crepe paper caps and unoffeeeeshal match programmes and to just know that the 1977 All-Ireland football semi-final was the high point of 20th century civilisation.
89 SEEING THE old greats who once stilled your own childish play, men who you pretended to be in your hurling or football dreams stalking the sidelines coaching the under-13s.
90 BALL WAS there ref, bleedin' ball was there.
91 DID THEY ever bring the Champions League trophy to your school. Sam and Liam spend more days in school each year than most teachers.
92 WATCHING BRIAN Dooher, wondering when they will find the off switch.
93 THE GAA is the most effective welfare body the country has. Ask anybody just fetched up in New York or Chicago or Boston. It's like the sporting wing of the Freemasons, the drinking arm of the Mafia.
94 KEVIN HEFFERNAN. A one-man Mount Rushmore.
95 RULE 42 is gone. Rule 21 is gone. Croker is open. It's not even a guilty pleasure anymore.
96 ALL GAA assassins have the most harmless names like Francie and Sylvie and Ricey. In pro sports they'd be called things like the Terminator, The Mean Machine, Judge Dredd (okay, stretching the point a little there but we've 125 of these suckers to get through).
97 THE CHAMPIONSHIP is in tune with our natural rhythms. Summer comes, sun shines, we play championship. The other stuff is just diversion on the dark nights and wet days.
98 UMPIRES LOOKING at each other blankly. Linesmen shrugging. It's good for sport not to let technology rule out the factor of human error. Reminds us that there are more important things in life.
99 THE SHEER loveable eccentricity of a sporting organisation which gets itself into knots because a few young lads every year choose to try the sand and cash of Australia for a bit while they are young but thousands, and good luck to them, try their hands at other sports. Where is the angst over Pádraig Harrington and Paul McGinley, over Tomás O'Leary or Shane Long. There isn't any and nor should there be.
100 THE Ó Sé brothers.
101 GETTING THE ferry on the way to a hurling game on the Ards peninsula. You really feel as if the game has an international dimension!
102 THE TRAGEDY of people who follow counties with less or more than two syllables in the county name. How delightful are those chants? Mee-eeeth. Caw-ork. Wah-fuh!
103 JAYSUS IF they won't take you off, have the decency to come off yourself. It's not your fault son, it's the gobshites that picked ya.
104 THAT STORY. A dispute has split a hurling parish in Galway down the centre. We all know which one. Anyway there is an egm called and when things get heated the parish priest walks up to the podium and reminds everybody of what the GAA can be and should be and pleads for the good of the club for the factions to lay aside their differences and pull together and for everybody to move ahead together as a united force. And the chairman stands up and says: "Thanks a lot for that now Father, but that's the kind of shite that sickens my hole."
If it isn't true it should be true.
105 KNOCK KNOCK
Whose there?
Vaughan
Vaughan Who?
Vaughan day yis might win an All-Ireland. The eternal optimism of the no-hopers.
106 FIRST THERE. Looking out over the club's field in the early morning. Bit of mist, sun coming up. Second home.
107 THE MEMORY of great mentors you once had. Funerals with the jersey hanging over the coffin and stories being told.
108 THE WEIRD way in which neither you nor the people beside you break off into a guttural roar a couple of lines before the end of the national anthem and yet the entire stadium seems to do it at once.
109 THE ARTANE Boys Band. The older you get the more their musical stylings grow on you. No really.
110 THE MOTHER of all derby games? Dublin and Meath. Cork and Kerry. Down and Armagh. Galway and Mayo. Cork and Tipp. Kilkenny and Wexford. These are Balkan feuds, things you grow up with, conditions of living. Not triumphs of hype.
111 THE WONDERMENT each year as like the list of the fallen in the Great War the names of the casualties in the early rounds of the Tyrone county championship are read out and Mickey Harte's panel shrinks almost to single figures.
112 The Seán Ógs. Ó Ceallachain and Ó hAilpín.
113 THE GAA makes the world a smaller place. Every September people who you thought you would never see again or hear from again contact you in the spirit of friendship and wondering about tickets.
114 RUPERT MURDOCH still doesn't own the GAA.
115 BELFAST CÚCHULAINNS.
116 WHY IS the FAI still trying to make us sing We're On The One Road by the Wolfe Tones. Rugby has moved us past all that!
117 VOLUNTEERISM IS the fancy word for it, but putting it back in is what people do and a professional sport will just never have that same spirit of pay-back, of returning to the game what you took from it, because the GAA asks you to measure the reward in something other than euro and cent.
118 WATCHING ANTHONY Daly ref a training game. (Memo to self: idea for TV series. Viewers bet on Dalo's pulse rate in various scenarios)
119 HANG SANDWICHES and tae. Still the staple of royalty.
120 IRELAND'S CALL. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Can see what people see in Paul O'Connell and yes he'd a done some damage in around the square but Ireland's Call?
121 IS THERE anything as viscerally stirring, as boneshakingly exciting and quintessentially part of us as a great comeback in a great game of hurling on a fine summer's day. There is not!
122 FLAGS FROM the houses. Bonfires on the roads. Speeches from the backs of lorries.
123 HURLERS AND footballers always bring their A game. Sometimes it just looks like their B or C game.
124 FROM EDDIE Moroney to Glengooley we can laugh at ourselves. And we'll laugh with those who sit down to pick apart every single one of these 125 reasons.
125 A CENTURY and a quarter and still rolling, rolling, rolling.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: macdanger2 on April 04, 2017, 03:17:11 PM
Superb player
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Newbridge Exile on April 04, 2017, 03:28:54 PM
Him and Canavan are the two most naturally gifted forwards I have ever seen. Everything seemed to come so easy for both of them. Probably couldn't take another year of the muck that Football has become.
Agree but add Maurice Fitz to that list too
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on April 04, 2017, 03:36:42 PM
It's funny on twitter today that 90% of the Gooch career highlights being posted come from one game and really only half of that game. That being the first half of the Kerry v Dublin 2013 semi-final when Gooch played the playmaker role threading those little passes into the full-forward line. Hardly seen anything else from the earlier part of his career.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Ball Hopper on April 04, 2017, 03:47:38 PM
Colm Cooper...Simply the best...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41dSdsGnTMc
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 04, 2017, 04:29:33 PM
A fantastic footballer who deserves all the plaudits. That half against Dublin was as good a playmaking performance as I've witnessed. Such an intelligent player.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 04, 2017, 04:52:51 PM
That 35 minutes more or less retired Ger Brennan and was the start of Cian O'Sullivan dominating the centre back position.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: easytiger95 on April 04, 2017, 04:57:43 PM
His performances in 2004 and 2006 have been devalued because of the perceived lack of quality in those Mayo teams, but I think on both days he was unplayable.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 04, 2017, 06:03:46 PM
Always loved the way he placed the ball instead of trying to blast it into the net.
The goal against Dublin (2011) where he took the lay-off from O'Sullivan and just side-footed it past Cluxton was a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 04, 2017, 06:03:53 PM
Good player but overrated. Brolly is right in a lot he says about him, he never really did it when the chips were down.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 04, 2017, 06:34:07 PM
Nonsense.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 04, 2017, 06:44:12 PM
Nonsense.

The behaviour of Cooper's band of sycophants is hilarious. Martin McHugh made a fairly decent summation of Cooper a few years back and nearly got lynch for expressing his opinion. There's lots of reasons to have a critique of Cooper given the many disappearing acts he has done over the year, trying to suppress discussion of critique of Cooper just shows what a con his reputation is.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 04, 2017, 06:46:41 PM
I'm not trying to suppress anyone's view. I just believe your view is wide of the mark.

Cooper was a great footballer.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 04, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
I'm not trying to suppress anyone's view. I just believe your view is wide of the mark.

Cooper was a great footballer.

Who had a habit of disappearing when his team needed him.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 04, 2017, 06:59:27 PM
I disagree with that assessment.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Avondhu star on April 04, 2017, 07:36:45 PM
Like a lot of GAA players when they have a nickname it adds to their reputation because of goms like Marty over exagerating it
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 04, 2017, 07:46:44 PM
Good player but overrated. Brolly is right in a lot he says about him, he never really did it when the chips were down.

Agreed, when a decent team stood face to face with Cooper (and Kerry) and asked questions of them they never pushed on. It is easy to do this and that when you are winning and winning well. But when you are faced with adversity and you have to pull it out of the bag, then that shows true Greatness. Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

I don't want to go down the road of belittling his contribution to Gaelic football. It has been immense. But just like Mayo players and teams are open to criticism for failure (and rightly so) - I don't see why Kerry can be immune.

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: BallyroanAbu on April 04, 2017, 07:51:05 PM
Brolly 1 Final
Gooch 4-34 Nine Finals Winning 4 and every major honor in GAA.
Every Great of Kerry Football lining up to say he was the one of the Greats (pretty sure they don't hand out plaudits easily)
Man is a Living Legend

We live an age where he was been double marked and given rough treatment and he still shined

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 04, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
The losses weren't all down to Cooper. Contrary to popular opinion, In the 2005 final he had a good game, despite some cowardly treatment from Tyrone players.

He was a great player and a joy to watch. His vision and awareness of others is something very few players possess.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 04, 2017, 08:16:33 PM
Good player but overrated. Brolly is right in a lot he says about him, he never really did it when the chips were down.

If he was a Tyrone man...
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 04, 2017, 08:20:17 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: thebuzz on April 04, 2017, 08:43:01 PM
I'm not trying to suppress anyone's view. I just believe your view is wide of the mark.

Cooper was a great footballer.

If The Stallion says he was great footballer then he was definitely a great footballer. He doesn't give praise lightly.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 08:54:44 PM
Brolly 1 Final
Gooch 4-34 Nine Finals Winning 4 and every major honor in GAA.
Every Great of Kerry Football lining up to say he was the one of the Greats (pretty sure they don't hand out plaudits easily)
Man is a Living Legend

We live an age where he was been double marked and given rough treatment and he still shined
Brolly played on teams that could beat Tyrone, however

Down in Kerry the inability to beat either Tyrone or now the Dubs sickens them
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: omagh_gael on April 04, 2017, 09:08:36 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2017, 09:10:30 PM
Irish Times from 2004

Locker Room: They used to say of the Native Americans that, critically, they failed to spot on the horizon those boats which would carry their doom because they had never seen such shapes and their eyes were accustomed to looking for other things. It was a mistake you wouldn't think you'd see made twice.  And yet. Coming down O'Connell Street yesterday, happy, blithe crowds of Mayo and Kerry people spilled merrily out from the footpaths and onto the tarmac. It was as if they'd never seen cars before in their lives I thought, as I ploughed through a couple of hundred of them, thus single-handedly easing the ticket crisis a little.  Croke Park. Late. Mayo are already out on the field with nearly half an hour left before the throw-in. Some of them are going to need reading material to kill the time.  Asking around, trying to borrow an opinion for myself. Nobody is too keen on Mayo. Flighty, is what they are. The consensus among the nabobs of hackery is that Kerry are Kerry and Mayo are Mayo. So it is and so it shall be.  Mind always wanders before the throw-in. Must be big-match nerves. Start composing little lists of likes and dislikes in case the GAA want to ask me. Like Mayo's red jerseys. Bit more flash, in keeping with their native self-confidence.  Don't like tubby tenors who "lead us" in singing the national anthem. Croke Park on All-Ireland final day is about the one place where we don't need leading in singing the thing. Adjust scope on my telescopic rifle but can't get a bead on the bugger.  Mayo have shuffled their forwards. Ingenious. Briefly Conor Mortimer establishes a bleachhead at full forward. Trevor goes to the right-half forward spot. Everyone else except Ciarán McDonald is somewhere other than the spot they were picked in.  It starts well for Mayo. A goal and a point up, scored after four minutes. Already they are in the position they best like: the final is theirs to throw away.

Two minutes later it begins to look ominous. The Gooch rises as if levitating and fields a ball on the 21. If I were related to The Gooch I'd get religion and pray hard every time he goes out on a field. And when he'd come home I'd feed him.  I was in Killarney recently, and in the outlet mall at the station there was a big car which Dr Crokes were offering in a draw. Ten euro a ticket. There was nobody around to give the €10 to, but I'm mailing it to the club with instructions that I'm not interested in the motor but I'd like to buy The Gooch a meal.  Anyway, the Gooch catches, feeds Willie Kirby for a point. If I were John Maughan I'd be shouting, "Do I not like that?" The Mayo forwards are playing in the Mayo tradition: subsisting through famine. Conor Mortimer and Ciarán McDonald provoke near hysteria every time they touch the ball, but you can close your eyes and tell Mayo are struggling. The outbreaks of hysteria are getter fewer and farther between.  I love the two lads. When did Gaelic footballers begin to get so flamboyant? I remember Noel Lynch of Meath had a pretty blinding blond Afro years ago, the sort of hairdo you'd need planning permission for in a built-up area, but Westmeath never gave him the platform with which to etch his barnet into the national psyche.

Mortimer reminds me of the story of Seán Thornton, the bleached midfielder who signed a couple of years ago from Tranmere to Sunderland. Arriving on the windswept training ground the first day with his earlobe bejewelled, his hair peroxided and his boots matching, he drew a sad shaking-of-the-head from Bobby Sax, an old coach. "You'd better be good, son, you'd better be good."  And Ciarán McDonald? What's left to say? He's struck two sublime points against the traffic in this first half and everyone in Mayo loves him. They'd swear, in fact, that they always have. I once had a long, rather bizarre and heated argument over the phone with a woman from Mayo. We were discussing the topic of Ciarán's hair, which he was then marshalling into a splendid ponytail. Being the ace wordsmith that I am, I had called him "the ponytailed Ciarán McDonald".
"Why did you call him that?" screamed the woman down the phone.  "Because he has a ponytail," I said back, devastating her with my wit. "You know what I mean," she hollered.  "No, I don't. If he had a beard I might have called him the bearded McDonald. If he had big feet I'd call him Flipper McDonald."  "What were you trying to tell people about him?"  "That he has a ponytail?" "And who has ponytails?"  "Ponies?"
"Don't be smart."
"People in advertising? Bicycle couriers? Artists? Who?" "You know who."  "Who?"  "Homosexuals. You were saying that he's a homosexual. You're a homophobe." This was news to me and, I'm sure, had it been brought to his attention, to Mr McDonald, who I'm sure isn't gay but has every right to be if he so desires.  Anyway, since then I've always been careful about the ponytail issue, and now I dither before describing his do de jour as cornrows lest I get a call accusing me of accusing Ciarán of being black, which I'm not, and which he has every right to be if he so desires.

Mind wandering badly now. Twenty-one minutes gone. Kerry have nine points on the board and the firm of Moynihan and Russell representing them on the bench. Every time I look back at the action Kerry are clipping over another point. Before half-time I'm playing a little game with myself, trying to spot the first Mayo person to get up and leave, shaking his head in conspicuous, mock sadness as if beating the traffic or getting an early pint wasn't what's on his mind.m  Before half-time - quite a way before half-time - Mayo bring David Brady on for Fergal Kelly. There's not much you can say to a man like Kelly at a time like that. Big day, everyone here and you get hauled off before you're warmed up properly.Anyway, Brady is on for 30 seconds when The Gooch leaps like a carrot-topped salmon and pulls down another high one. This time he skins the Mayo defence and puts it in the back of the net. Genius. Game over.  Early in the second half I go to unplug my laptop and accidentally unplug the TV monitor which four of us hacks are sharing. It won't come back to life. We only get monitors for big days in Croke Park and they're such a treat that what I've done is a crime for which I deserve to be flung from the upper deck of the Hogan. The lads just shrug. Nothing on worth watching anyway.  Mind rambling again. I remember being at one-sided basketball games in the US where they would have promotions to keep the crowd interested. If the Knicks, say, score 110 points everyone in the crowd gets free pizza. So in a game that's as dead as a Dana presidential bid the crowd would be apoplectic, urging the boys to pile on the scores. What would 80,000 slices of pizza cost? Kerry are on 1-19 and relaxed. Just say we all got pizza if they score 20. It would stop all those people leaving.
Mike Frank scores the last point for Kerry. An emphatic punctuation mark at the close of business. Strikes me that I'm not old, but I've been here to watch Kerry in 15 finals since 1972, seen them win 11 of them. Any wonder that, when it comes to these September pageants, Kerry are always Kerry and the rest of Ireland are always the supporting cast.


That was before 2005
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Orior on April 04, 2017, 09:31:49 PM
Always enjoyed watching the Gooch. Enjoy your retirement.

Did I hear the news right this evening? One of his fans is Andy Murray's mum Judy.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: ashman on April 04, 2017, 10:04:07 PM
Brolly 1 Final
Gooch 4-34 Nine Finals Winning 4 and every major honor in GAA.
Every Great of Kerry Football lining up to say he was the one of the Greats (pretty sure they don't hand out plaudits easily)
Man is a Living Legend

We live an age where he was been double marked and given rough treatment and he still shined
Brolly played on teams that could beat Tyrone, however

Down in Kerry the inability to beat either Tyrone or now the Dubs sickens them

Of course it does .  No one likes to lose all Ireland finals or semis .  Are you saying losing should please them ??
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 04, 2017, 10:14:49 PM
Colm Cooper...Simply the best...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41dSdsGnTMc

Tomas ose called him the greatest kerry player of all time which probably makes him the greatest player of all time. Fantastic player to watch it was always a joy to see him scoring and creat.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: naka on April 04, 2017, 10:36:46 PM
Jeez great praise by Tomas
Still  think Maurice Fitz was the most graceful I ever saw but the gooch  was up there.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 04, 2017, 10:49:00 PM
The greatest player of all time was a certain Peter Canavan, let's just get that out of the way.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Bord na Mona man on April 04, 2017, 10:55:00 PM
Great player. His speed of thought and movement was superb. His lack of size and physique meant he was always in dodging mode which made him the magician he was. A GAA version of Peter Stringer.

In Kerry terms I'd still rank Maurice Fitzgerald ahead of him. Maurice could kick the booming scores from further out and had real panache. His peak coincided with Kerry playing second fiddle to Cork for several years.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: magpie seanie on April 04, 2017, 11:16:01 PM
That 35 minutes more or less retired Ger Brennan and was the start of Cian O'Sullivan dominating the centre back position.


The Dubs should thank him so!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: southtyronegael on April 04, 2017, 11:16:47 PM
was always a pleasure to watch cooper play. sad to see the likes of him retire when we have nothing but garbage defensive systems and robots to replace him with.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: regal on April 04, 2017, 11:27:33 PM
An absolutely outstanding footballer who played football the way it should be played. He even retired with a touch of class.

Compare his retirement to Sean cavanagh's retirement last year. Sent off, the tears, the complaining and the general cheating. Oh, that's right, he didn't retire after all.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 04, 2017, 11:37:54 PM
An absolutely outstanding footballer who played football the way it should be played. He even retired with a touch of class.

Compare his retirement to Sean cavanagh's retirement last year. Sent off, the tears, the complaining and the general cheating. Oh, that's right, he didn't retire after all.

Compare Cavanagh taking the Ulster final by the scruff of the neck and bringing his side over the line to the many big games that Cooper downed tools in over the years when the going got tough.

I know Sean Cavanagh is the type of guy I'd want on my team, dives a lot less than Cooper did too.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 04, 2017, 11:48:33 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: magpie seanie on April 04, 2017, 11:55:48 PM
Martin McHugh doesn't think that the Gooch is that good...


https://youtu.be/NTFldkyJJhM (https://youtu.be/NTFldkyJJhM)


Embarrassing for Mairtin looking back at that.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 05, 2017, 12:00:45 AM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: moysider on April 05, 2017, 12:15:14 AM
Irish Times from 2004

Locker Room: They used to say of the Native Americans that, critically, they failed to spot on the horizon those boats which would carry their doom because they had never seen such shapes and their eyes were accustomed to looking for other things. It was a mistake you wouldn't think you'd see made twice.  And yet. Coming down O'Connell Street yesterday, happy, blithe crowds of Mayo and Kerry people spilled merrily out from the footpaths and onto the tarmac. It was as if they'd never seen cars before in their lives I thought, as I ploughed through a couple of hundred of them, thus single-handedly easing the ticket crisis a little.  Croke Park. Late. Mayo are already out on the field with nearly half an hour left before the throw-in. Some of them are going to need reading material to kill the time.  Asking around, trying to borrow an opinion for myself. Nobody is too keen on Mayo. Flighty, is what they are. The consensus among the nabobs of hackery is that Kerry are Kerry and Mayo are Mayo. So it is and so it shall be.  Mind always wanders before the throw-in. Must be big-match nerves. Start composing little lists of likes and dislikes in case the GAA want to ask me. Like Mayo's red jerseys. Bit more flash, in keeping with their native self-confidence.  Don't like tubby tenors who "lead us" in singing the national anthem. Croke Park on All-Ireland final day is about the one place where we don't need leading in singing the thing. Adjust scope on my telescopic rifle but can't get a bead on the bugger.  Mayo have shuffled their forwards. Ingenious. Briefly Conor Mortimer establishes a bleachhead at full forward. Trevor goes to the right-half forward spot. Everyone else except Ciarán McDonald is somewhere other than the spot they were picked in.  It starts well for Mayo. A goal and a point up, scored after four minutes. Already they are in the position they best like: the final is theirs to throw away.

Two minutes later it begins to look ominous. The Gooch rises as if levitating and fields a ball on the 21. If I were related to The Gooch I'd get religion and pray hard every time he goes out on a field. And when he'd come home I'd feed him.  I was in Killarney recently, and in the outlet mall at the station there was a big car which Dr Crokes were offering in a draw. Ten euro a ticket. There was nobody around to give the €10 to, but I'm mailing it to the club with instructions that I'm not interested in the motor but I'd like to buy The Gooch a meal.  Anyway, the Gooch catches, feeds Willie Kirby for a point. If I were John Maughan I'd be shouting, "Do I not like that?" The Mayo forwards are playing in the Mayo tradition: subsisting through famine. Conor Mortimer and Ciarán McDonald provoke near hysteria every time they touch the ball, but you can close your eyes and tell Mayo are struggling. The outbreaks of hysteria are getter fewer and farther between.  I love the two lads. When did Gaelic footballers begin to get so flamboyant? I remember Noel Lynch of Meath had a pretty blinding blond Afro years ago, the sort of hairdo you'd need planning permission for in a built-up area, but Westmeath never gave him the platform with which to etch his barnet into the national psyche.

Mortimer reminds me of the story of Seán Thornton, the bleached midfielder who signed a couple of years ago from Tranmere to Sunderland. Arriving on the windswept training ground the first day with his earlobe bejewelled, his hair peroxided and his boots matching, he drew a sad shaking-of-the-head from Bobby Sax, an old coach. "You'd better be good, son, you'd better be good."  And Ciarán McDonald? What's left to say? He's struck two sublime points against the traffic in this first half and everyone in Mayo loves him. They'd swear, in fact, that they always have. I once had a long, rather bizarre and heated argument over the phone with a woman from Mayo. We were discussing the topic of Ciarán's hair, which he was then marshalling into a splendid ponytail. Being the ace wordsmith that I am, I had called him "the ponytailed Ciarán McDonald".
"Why did you call him that?" screamed the woman down the phone.  "Because he has a ponytail," I said back, devastating her with my wit. "You know what I mean," she hollered.  "No, I don't. If he had a beard I might have called him the bearded McDonald. If he had big feet I'd call him Flipper McDonald."  "What were you trying to tell people about him?"  "That he has a ponytail?" "And who has ponytails?"  "Ponies?"
"Don't be smart."
"People in advertising? Bicycle couriers? Artists? Who?" "You know who."  "Who?"  "Homosexuals. You were saying that he's a homosexual. You're a homophobe." This was news to me and, I'm sure, had it been brought to his attention, to Mr McDonald, who I'm sure isn't gay but has every right to be if he so desires.  Anyway, since then I've always been careful about the ponytail issue, and now I dither before describing his do de jour as cornrows lest I get a call accusing me of accusing Ciarán of being black, which I'm not, and which he has every right to be if he so desires.

Mind wandering badly now. Twenty-one minutes gone. Kerry have nine points on the board and the firm of Moynihan and Russell representing them on the bench. Every time I look back at the action Kerry are clipping over another point. Before half-time I'm playing a little game with myself, trying to spot the first Mayo person to get up and leave, shaking his head in conspicuous, mock sadness as if beating the traffic or getting an early pint wasn't what's on his mind.m  Before half-time - quite a way before half-time - Mayo bring David Brady on for Fergal Kelly. There's not much you can say to a man like Kelly at a time like that. Big day, everyone here and you get hauled off before you're warmed up properly.Anyway, Brady is on for 30 seconds when The Gooch leaps like a carrot-topped salmon and pulls down another high one. This time he skins the Mayo defence and puts it in the back of the net. Genius. Game over.  Early in the second half I go to unplug my laptop and accidentally unplug the TV monitor which four of us hacks are sharing. It won't come back to life. We only get monitors for big days in Croke Park and they're such a treat that what I've done is a crime for which I deserve to be flung from the upper deck of the Hogan. The lads just shrug. Nothing on worth watching anyway.  Mind rambling again. I remember being at one-sided basketball games in the US where they would have promotions to keep the crowd interested. If the Knicks, say, score 110 points everyone in the crowd gets free pizza. So in a game that's as dead as a Dana presidential bid the crowd would be apoplectic, urging the boys to pile on the scores. What would 80,000 slices of pizza cost? Kerry are on 1-19 and relaxed. Just say we all got pizza if they score 20. It would stop all those people leaving.
Mike Frank scores the last point for Kerry. An emphatic punctuation mark at the close of business. Strikes me that I'm not old, but I've been here to watch Kerry in 15 finals since 1972, seen them win 11 of them. Any wonder that, when it comes to these September pageants, Kerry are always Kerry and the rest of Ireland are always the supporting cast.


That was before 2005

Awful crap.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 05, 2017, 07:16:55 AM
It was interesting that Philip Jordan the ex tyrone player in his column for RTE said that Gooch was the greatest player he'd seen or played against and specifically said he was better than canavan. Tomas O'Se also said he was the greatest Kerry player. High praise indeed from 2 legends of the game and well deserved in my opinion. He made so many games easy for Kerry ie games which might have been tight were turned into comfortable wins because gooch took the game by the scruff of the neck.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: 5 Sams on April 05, 2017, 08:19:22 AM
Panic over lads...Breheny has it all sorted out.... :-\ :-\

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-why-colm-cooper-is-the-fifth-greatest-forward-of-them-all-35594573.html
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 05, 2017, 08:36:46 AM
"I know Sean Cavanagh is the type of guy I'd want on my team, dives a lot less than Cooper did too."

Lol
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: seafoid on April 05, 2017, 08:42:30 AM
Panic over lads...Breheny has it all sorted out.... :-\ :-\

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-why-colm-cooper-is-the-fifth-greatest-forward-of-them-all-35594573.html
No Mickey Linden . Jaysus
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 05, 2017, 09:14:41 AM
Classic Breheny.
Everything was better when the world was in black and white.
Cooper would have prospered in the 70's/80's.
Corner-backs were utter tramps in those days, but at least you only had one of them marking you.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 05, 2017, 09:20:08 AM
"I know Sean Cavanagh is the type of guy I'd want on my team, dives a lot less than Cooper did too."

Lol

Hilarious. Since 08 Cavanagh has played in a team which has lost 14 or 15 championship games. He is a very good player but often poor decision making and discipline has cost his team in those matches. Nowhere near in the class of gooch whose decision making and discipline as well as all round game is exemplary.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 05, 2017, 09:33:14 AM
It's an interesting philosophical question actually.
Can you be a great player without necessarily being an obsessive 'winner' type?
I remember in the salad days of my youth, Meath had loads of winners.
If we were 8 points down, you'd be quite confident Murphy, Giles or Geraghty would say, "Ok lads, fun's over", and dive head first into the fray.
Like the day in Navan (2002) where Louth were home and hosed before we hit them with two late goals.
Geraghty could have taken his point to level the game up with the last kick, but he buried it instead to get the win.
It's the stubborn refusal to accept defeat I suppose.
Then again, I remember Graham destroying Dublin in the 1st half of our game in 2005.
He was nowhere near as effective in the 2nd half, but Dublin were always on the attack so we weren't getting the ball up the field to him.
Did he 'go missing' for that 2nd half?
I don't think so.
I wouldn't be too hard on Cooper.
When a team wins the vast majority of games it plays comfortably, invariably the small few games that they lose will be close-fought affairs.
To correlate that with Cooper 'going missing' is overly simplistic for me.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 05, 2017, 09:36:15 AM
Not a peep out of the GPA wishing the Gooch well in his retirement. Stems back to Cooper sticking to the Lucozade Sport when the GPA were pushing Club Energise and Donal Og was threatening to throw the Lucozades out of the Cork dressing room if the county board pushed them in. Very petty on the GPAs behalf compared to when other greats of the games who were company men retired. Then again a Leopard doesn't change its spots.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Beantown on April 05, 2017, 10:35:48 AM
The losses weren't all down to Cooper. Contrary to popular opinion, In the 2005 final he had a good game, despite some cowardly treatment from Tyrone players.

He was a great player and a joy to watch. His vision and awareness of others is something very few players possess.

Yer hole!! What cowardly treatment???

I dont buy the living legends from Kerry praise as every county will praise their own higher than maybe they deserve.  Especially the Kerry ones, always a twinkle in the eye when they are talking Kerry Football, they like to throw in a grenade and watch everyone else get wound up while they stand back and laugh at the absurdy of it all. 

Colm Cooper will go down as one of the games most naturally talented forwards.  Didnt have a weak foot and had silky skills that many can only dream about.  Not the best in the air but no one player is perfect.   Cooper in full flight was a joy to watch !  Especially when teams tended to play with a bit more freedom and not this blanket defence muck we see now.

As for the greatest? Thats a non starter as each era throws up comparisons with the previous era and its a never ending argument.  We all have our preferences.  Personnally Canavan was the best forward I have ever seen, Cooper never had to carry a team for years the way Canavan did.  Both in the FF Line would have been some set of snipers though.

Of the recent Kerry teams I would have chosen the 3 O'Se's ahead of him. And over the last 6-7 years Brogan has been the most lethal forward in the country. 

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Fuzzman on April 05, 2017, 10:38:18 AM
Tomás O'Sé talks about Gooch and how he liked his happy ending.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-king-of-them-all-gooch-deserved-his-happy-ending-35594571.html
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 11:28:33 AM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 05, 2017, 11:29:55 AM
"Yer hole!! What cowardly treatment???"

Sly digs, constant slabbering from the usual suspects etc. The sort of unmanly stuff some players do when they know they're afraid of not being able to match an opponent playing the game fairly.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: mouview on April 05, 2017, 11:38:20 AM
Panic over lads...Breheny has it all sorted out.... :-\ :-\

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-why-colm-cooper-is-the-fifth-greatest-forward-of-them-all-35594573.html

F&ck sake. Moderate talents like Brogan, Giles, McHugh, Rock, Tompkins, Keaveney ahead of the likes of Ja or Ml. Donnellan?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 05, 2017, 11:43:43 AM
All those lads were winners, not fancy dans.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: mouview on April 05, 2017, 11:53:22 AM
You can be both you know! :-)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 12:34:22 PM
Ah now Padraig Brogan was a hell of a player.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 05, 2017, 03:18:29 PM
Not a peep out of the GPA wishing the Gooch well in his retirement. Stems back to Cooper sticking to the Lucozade Sport when the GPA were pushing Club Energise and Donal Og was threatening to throw the Lucozades out of the Cork dressing room if the county board pushed them in. Very petty on the GPAs behalf compared to when other greats of the games who were company men retired. Then again a Leopard doesn't change its spots.

Either we have some GPA lurkers or the Fancy Bears are at it again https://twitter.com/gaelicplayers/status/849570630001463296 (https://twitter.com/gaelicplayers/status/849570630001463296)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: thebuzz on April 05, 2017, 03:34:11 PM
Not a peep out of the GPA wishing the Gooch well in his retirement. Stems back to Cooper sticking to the Lucozade Sport when the GPA were pushing Club Energise and Donal Og was threatening to throw the Lucozades out of the Cork dressing room if the county board pushed them in. Very petty on the GPAs behalf compared to when other greats of the games who were company men retired. Then again a Leopard doesn't change its spots.

Either we have some GPA lurkers or the Fancy Bears are at it again https://twitter.com/gaelicplayers/status/849570630001463296 (https://twitter.com/gaelicplayers/status/849570630001463296)

The time on the message says 3:33 am - 5 Apr 2017 but that could be a server time in the US. If the time is correct they tweeted before the above message was written.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: thebuzz on April 05, 2017, 03:36:35 PM
Not a peep out of the GPA wishing the Gooch well in his retirement. Stems back to Cooper sticking to the Lucozade Sport when the GPA were pushing Club Energise and Donal Og was threatening to throw the Lucozades out of the Cork dressing room if the county board pushed them in. Very petty on the GPAs behalf compared to when other greats of the games who were company men retired. Then again a Leopard doesn't change its spots.

Either we have some GPA lurkers or the Fancy Bears are at it again https://twitter.com/gaelicplayers/status/849570630001463296 (https://twitter.com/gaelicplayers/status/849570630001463296)

The time on the message says 3:33 am - 5 Apr 2017 but that could be a server time in the US. If the time is correct they tweeted before the above message was written.

It also says 4h at the top which means it was written more recently after all  :) :)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Avondhu star on April 05, 2017, 06:50:37 PM
"Yer hole!! What cowardly treatment???"

Sly digs, constant slabbering from the usual suspects etc. The sort of unmanly stuff some players do when they know they're afraid of not being able to match an opponent playing the game fairly.

In other words the stuff Deenihan, Galvin, O Mahony and the O Se's got up to and away with
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 05, 2017, 07:23:21 PM
You can use other words if you want but I was specifically referring to the cowardly treatment dished out to Cooper in the 2005 final.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: imtommygunn on April 05, 2017, 07:34:20 PM
Judy murray - that is a strange one.

I think he was better in the air than given credit for. Thankfully managed to see him in the flesh though only once. Even though kerry were stuffed that day still a joy to watch.

I womder will he ever tell us what happened his eye in 05??
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: phpearse on April 05, 2017, 07:42:50 PM
Quote
I womder will he ever tell us what happened his eye in 05??

No need I can tell you exactly what happened. I was sitting in the front row of the Davin stand top deck just to the left of the posts. McConnell was out at the edge of the small square and Ricey was out a bit further. Cooper was in on the end line and making shapes to dart one way or the other. McConnell was looking over both shoulders to see which way Cooper was going to make his run and then made himself big by holding out both arms and as Cooper made a run past his right he must have caught the edge of McConnell's glove. Ricey was nowhere the place. Umpires saw all and no action was needed.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 05, 2017, 09:22:59 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 09:34:42 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Maiden1 on April 05, 2017, 09:55:25 PM
All Ireland final record.  Win or lose he was always consistent.

2011 C Cooper 1-3
2009 C Cooper 0-6
2008 C Cooper 1-5
2007 C Cooper 0-6
2006 C Cooper 1-2
2005 C Cooper 0-5
2004 C Cooper 1-5
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 05, 2017, 10:44:57 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Sad to see a Meath man existing through other counties. Maybe they'll annex you if you keep on pleading.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 05, 2017, 11:45:39 PM
All Ireland final record.  Win or lose he was always consistent.

2011 C Cooper 1-3
2009 C Cooper 0-6
2008 C Cooper 1-5
2007 C Cooper 0-6
2006 C Cooper 1-2
2005 C Cooper 0-5
2004 C Cooper 1-5

Didn't he play in 02 and score 1 or 2 points?
And held scoreless against Dublin in 15?

Still a fantastic record, over 5point average across 9 finals, only drops to 4.7-4.8 across 11 if you include club finals
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: David McKeown on April 06, 2017, 06:13:56 AM
Fantastic footballer and a joy to watch. Interestingly Ronan Clarke and he made his debut the same year possibly even on the same day. Clarke won Young player of the year that year whilst Gooch won an all star. Pity about Clarkes injuries or that would have been a great battle to watch over the years.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 06, 2017, 06:56:42 AM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Love it Hardy, you've totally destroyed that argument.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 06, 2017, 08:26:22 AM
Fantastic footballer and a joy to watch. Interestingly Ronan Clarke and he made his debut the same year possibly even on the same day. Clarke won Young player of the year that year whilst Gooch won an all star. Pity about Clarkes injuries or that would have been a great battle to watch over the years.

Clarke was a good young player but not in the same League as Cooper.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 06, 2017, 09:05:56 AM
Fantastic footballer and a joy to watch. Interestingly Ronan Clarke and he made his debut the same year possibly even on the same day. Clarke won Young player of the year that year whilst Gooch won an all star. Pity about Clarkes injuries or that would have been a great battle to watch over the years.

Clarke was a good young player but not in the same League as Cooper.

Battle? No disrespect to Clarke but not even on the same planet!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: magpie seanie on April 06, 2017, 10:13:23 AM
Can't believe Martin Breheny had Maurice Fitz so low on his list. I didn't agree with a lot of it.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2017, 10:47:13 AM
Martin Breheny. Nuff said :(
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Maiden1 on April 06, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
All Ireland final record.  Win or lose he was always consistent.

2011 C Cooper 1-3
2009 C Cooper 0-6
2008 C Cooper 1-5
2007 C Cooper 0-6
2006 C Cooper 1-2
2005 C Cooper 0-5
2004 C Cooper 1-5

Didn't he play in 02 and score 1 or 2 points?
And held scoreless against Dublin in 15?

Still a fantastic record, over 5point average across 9 finals, only drops to 4.7-4.8 across 11 if you include club finals
Yeah I think he scored 0-2 in 02.  He was only 19 at the time.  I might be being a bit unfair but I don't think he was quite the same player after the injury in 14.  Still a very good player with his quick brain but just about markable.  Dublin exploited that he couldn't get up and down the pitch like he once could by putting Philly McMahon on him and had McMahon doing full pace sprints up and down the pitch for the whole game until Gooch eventually ran out of steam.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: galwayman on April 06, 2017, 12:53:17 PM
Can't believe Martin Breheny had Maurice Fitz so low on his list. I didn't agree with a lot of it.
f**king Breheny.
All he does is spent his time compiling lists and quoting statistics.
His articles are a joke
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 06, 2017, 01:03:16 PM
Who'd be in your top 5 GAA reporters (not columnists)?
For me, it's the following:
Kieran Shannon.
Malachy Clerkin.
Vincent Hogan.
Sean Moran.
Wooly Parkinson.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: omagh_gael on April 06, 2017, 01:34:22 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Love it Hardy, you've totally destroyed that argument.

Yes Hardy, the games they lost were by small margins and that's a testament to how good they were. However, there is a strong argument that whenever they met their biggest rivals (Tyrone 00s and Dublin in the 10s) they invariably lost on the biggest days.

The finals they won since Gooch came on the scene:

2 x Mayo
2  x Cork
1 x Donegal (Durcan mistake being the decisive moment)

Finals they lost:

Tyrone x 2
Dublin x 2
Armagh x1

I think it's fair to say that Tyrone and Kerry were the standout teams from the 00s and Dublin hold that mantle in the '10s and Kerry win record in the biggest occasions was 0%. Of course, their biggest achievement is being consistently in the finals but that's an argument for another day.

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 06, 2017, 01:42:04 PM
Ian Cooney
Seamus Duke
Eamonn Sweeney
Paul Healy
Ciara McCaughley
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: David McKeown on April 06, 2017, 02:37:34 PM
Fantastic footballer and a joy to watch. Interestingly Ronan Clarke and he made his debut the same year possibly even on the same day. Clarke won Young player of the year that year whilst Gooch won an all star. Pity about Clarkes injuries or that would have been a great battle to watch over the years.

Clarke was a good young player but not in the same League as Cooper.

Battle? No disrespect to Clarke but not even on the same planet!

Oh I completely agree. Clarkes injuries ruined any chance he had of getting to the level that Cooper achieved.  The point I was badly trying to make was that Clarke was considered his level if not better in 02 when they both started. It would have been great had they both stayed injury free from then on. As it was the Gooch for me went on to be the finest player of his generation whilst Clarke will not really be remembered outside of Armagh.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: ashman on April 06, 2017, 02:52:01 PM
To be fair to Gooch the Kerry team have been a decline since 2009.  They were lucky cork were naive that year too.  The Dubs have been beating an average enough Kerry team since 2011 TBH .  The team was ageing and replacing leavers with lesser players . 
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 06, 2017, 04:24:46 PM
Clarke didn't have the potential to be as good as Cooper. He was a fine footballer but even had he stayed injury free he would not have reached Cooper's level or even close to it.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 06, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 06, 2017, 05:03:20 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Galway robbed themselves tbh.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: thebuzz on April 06, 2017, 05:37:14 PM
To be fair to Gooch the Kerry team have been a decline since 2009.  They were lucky cork were naive that year too.  The Dubs have been beating an average enough Kerry team since 2011 TBH .  The team was ageing and replacing leavers with lesser players .

I wouldn't mind if my team had been in decline since 2009 if they won Sam in 2014.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 06:06:52 PM
Fantastic footballer and a joy to watch. Interestingly Ronan Clarke and he made his debut the same year possibly even on the same day. Clarke won Young player of the year that year whilst Gooch won an all star. Pity about Clarkes injuries or that would have been a great battle to watch over the years.

Clarke was a good young player but not in the same League as Cooper.

Clarke was better, did it in big games when it really mattered.

Battle? No disrespect to Clarke but not even on the same planet!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 06:10:49 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Love it Hardy, you've totally destroyed that argument.

Yes Hardy, the games they lost were by small margins and that's a testament to how good they were. However, there is a strong argument that whenever they met their biggest rivals (Tyrone 00s and Dublin in the 10s) they invariably lost on the biggest days.

The finals they won since Gooch came on the scene:

2 x Mayo
2  x Cork
1 x Donegal (Durcan mistake being the decisive moment)

Finals they lost:

Tyrone x 2
Dublin x 2
Armagh x1

I think it's fair to say that Tyrone and Kerry were the standout teams from the 00s and Dublin hold that mantle in the '10s and Kerry win record in the biggest occasions was 0%. Of course, their biggest achievement is being consistently in the finals but that's an argument for another day.

And Gooch didn't play against Donegal too in 2014.

It depends what you value, those who rate Gooch so highly obviously rate style over substance.

There's no doubting the skill and talent Cooper had but greatness isn't just about that, to me I'd put more weight in being able to deliver what you are capable of when it matters and when you're really up against it. They really decide the greats and Cooper was superb when the elements were in his favour but regularly disappeared when they turned, a great player is not a slave to the elements, he is a decider of his own destiny.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 06, 2017, 06:30:25 PM
Nonsense
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 06:31:07 PM
Nonsense

What's Cooper's greatest performance?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Maiden1 on April 06, 2017, 06:59:26 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Love it Hardy, you've totally destroyed that argument.

Yes Hardy, the games they lost were by small margins and that's a testament to how good they were. However, there is a strong argument that whenever they met their biggest rivals (Tyrone 00s and Dublin in the 10s) they invariably lost on the biggest days.

The finals they won since Gooch came on the scene:

2 x Mayo
2  x Cork
1 x Donegal (Durcan mistake being the decisive moment)

Finals they lost:

Tyrone x 2
Dublin x 2
Armagh x1

I think it's fair to say that Tyrone and Kerry were the standout teams from the 00s and Dublin hold that mantle in the '10s and Kerry win record in the biggest occasions was 0%. Of course, their biggest achievement is being consistently in the finals but that's an argument for another day.

And Gooch didn't play against Donegal too in 2014.

It depends what you value, those who rate Gooch so highly obviously rate style over substance.

There's no doubting the skill and talent Cooper had but greatness isn't just about that, to me I'd put more weight in being able to deliver what you are capable of when it matters and when you're really up against it. They really decide the greats and Cooper was superb when the elements were in his favour but regularly disappeared when they turned, a great player is not a slave to the elements, he is a decider of his own destiny.
That sounds like 1 of Enda McNulty's quotes.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: David McKeown on April 06, 2017, 08:42:30 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Another fine footballer alright. It just shows that to get to the level of guys like the Gooch etc you need more than just skill. Luck plays a major part in it too
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Main Street on April 06, 2017, 08:44:13 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 06, 2017, 08:47:32 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Another fine footballer alright. It just shows that to get to the level of guys like the Gooch etc you need more than just skill. Luck plays a major part in it too

Or not being continually rushed back and let play on a bum ankle..
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 06, 2017, 08:58:57 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 06, 2017, 09:31:20 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login




Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: rrhf on April 07, 2017, 06:40:49 AM
To be honest it's a dampener before the championship starts. The young lads have one less purely skilled footballer to copy. For those who knock his game, catch yourself on, for those who say he was a better footballer than Peter Canavan the same.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 07, 2017, 06:42:12 AM
"Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south."

It doesn't matter how often you repeat this, it's still not true.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 07, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.
Tomás and Darragh Ó Sé, Declan O'Sullivan were usually out around the centre of the pitch, therefore had more of a chance to turn things around. Donaghy was a big man for the long high balls in. Gooch was usually in the corner.  But if you reckon Donaghy is better than Cooper, I disagree.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 07, 2017, 09:38:11 AM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.

And since 08 I can list you numerous games where Sean Cavanagh has failed to step up to the plate when needed. In fact in the really important tight games which tyrone have lost poor decision making, being too greedy and poor discipline from Cavanagh has contributed to tyrone losing all those tight games.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 07, 2017, 09:41:59 AM
Who'd be in your top 5 GAA reporters (not columnists)?
For me, it's the following:
Kieran Shannon.
Malachy Clerkin.
Vincent Hogan.
Sean Moran.
Wooly Parkinson.

Jaysus, you've left out 2 of the top 3, Kieran Cunningham and John Fogarty. And the other one, Shannon, is probably more of a columnist these days to be fair.

Parkinson wouldn't be in my top 10, show me one article of his that's well written. He wasn't back on that Setanta Sports program to be fair and his podcast can be good if he can find someone to argue with.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: vallankumous on April 07, 2017, 09:52:20 AM
There's some mickey pulling going on with this retirement. I'm surprised Trump isn't tweeting about it.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 07, 2017, 10:34:44 AM
I'm not surprised. I doubt Trump knows who Cooper is to be honest. I don't think it's unusual for there to be discussion and debate when a great sportsperson retires. Perhaps if you are perturbed by it all you should avoid this thread.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: vallankumous on April 07, 2017, 10:58:01 AM
I'm not surprised. I doubt Trump knows who Cooper is to be honest. I don't think it's unusual for there to be discussion and debate when a great sportsperson retires. Perhaps if you are perturbed by it all you should avoid this thread.

I'm not talking about this thread. I'm all for it here and expect nothing less from a GAA board.

I'm talking about every muppet with a twitter account itching for retweets or desperate to get their tweets published on Joe.ie.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 07, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
Fair enough
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 07, 2017, 12:10:31 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

 :D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Sad to see a Meath man existing through other counties. Maybe they'll annex you if you keep on pleading.

Did Peter the Great 'go missing' against us in '96?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: rrhf on April 07, 2017, 12:55:57 PM
No he stayed on the field with an ankle badly broken by a yellow late tackle from the Meath midfielder. 
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 07, 2017, 01:25:41 PM
Ah yes.
The first, and only, time in history that one man has used his shoulder to break another man's ankle.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: rrhf on April 07, 2017, 02:35:46 PM
Shoulder yer arse!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: johnpower on April 08, 2017, 01:15:55 AM
Great debate as usaual , for me it's very hard to call if you take Canavan,Gooch,Matt Conner as what they achieved with both their counties and their clubs. I wish the Gooch the best in his retirement and hope he can enjoy life after his inter county career
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Avondhu star on April 08, 2017, 08:35:03 AM
After a lenghty investigation The Irish Examiner can reveal in an exclusive interview today the real reason why Cooper retired.
Apparently his body is no longer up to the level of intensive training required.
No shit Sherlock.
Do these journalists actually draw wages?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: vallankumous on April 08, 2017, 08:39:00 AM
After a lenghty investigation The Irish Examiner can reveal in an exclusive interview today the real reason why Cooper retired.
Apparently his body is no longer up to the level of intensive training required.
No shit Sherlock.
Do these journalists actually draw wages?

Yip. It's probably an excuse to have a dig at, or, inform the world that GAA training is intense.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 08, 2017, 09:24:59 AM
Modern GAA training is ridiculous in the extreme tbf.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 08, 2017, 09:46:32 AM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.

And since 08 I can list you numerous games where Sean Cavanagh has failed to step up to the plate when needed. In fact in the really important tight games which tyrone have lost poor decision making, being too greedy and poor discipline from Cavanagh has contributed to tyrone losing all those tight games.

But there's many big games where Cavanagh delivered in the crunch throughout the years, many big games where he came up with the goods when Tyrone were tottering.

With Cooper there is none, while you can reference Cavanagh not delivering they are countered by the many times he did deliver when needed, when Tyrone face adversity.

Cooper doesn't have those games to counter those many disappearing acts he did when his side needed him.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 08, 2017, 09:53:33 AM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.
Tomás and Darragh Ó Sé, Declan O'Sullivan were usually out around the centre of the pitch, therefore had more of a chance to turn things around. Donaghy was a big man for the long high balls in. Gooch was usually in the corner.  But if you reckon Donaghy is better than Cooper, I disagree.

What would a leader do though? They would get on the ball, did management not trust him going further out, he has played a fair bit of football at 11. Dublin in 2013 is a good example, he played at 11, he was very prominent in the first half when he was allowed play when Ger Brennan stood off him and allowed him time and space. Second half they stuck a different man on him, marked him tightly not a peep as Dublin turned around a big deficit, 35 minutes + of the game slipping away from Kerry and nothing from Cooper, he was deep that day but it followed the usual narrative.

It depends what you mean by better, I won't argue with people who want to cite Gooch as one of the most skillful players to play the game. But Donaghy was the guy who produced the goods when it mattered, time and time again he delivered big performances for Kerry when it mattered, he produced performances when it mattered. A Mayo man should know better than anyone else how Donaghy turned a game on its head when Kerry looked dead and buried in 2014 against Mayo and was equally imperative in the replay where Kerry prevailed AET.

Substance over style.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Estimator on April 08, 2017, 11:01:12 AM

What would a leader do though? They would get on the ball, did management not trust him going further out, he has played a fair bit of football at 11. Dublin in 2013 is a good example, he played at 11, he was very prominent in the first half when he was allowed play when Ger Brennan stood off him and allowed him time and space. Second half they stuck a different man on him, marked him tightly not a peep as Dublin turned around a big deficit, 35 minutes + of the game slipping away from Kerry and nothing from Cooper, he was deep that day but it followed the usual narrative.

It depends what you mean by better, I won't argue with people who want to cite Gooch as one of the most skillful players to play the game. But Donaghy was the guy who produced the goods when it mattered, time and time again he delivered big performances for Kerry when it mattered, he produced performances when it mattered. A Mayo man should know better than anyone else how Donaghy turned a game on its head when Kerry looked dead and buried in 2014 against Mayo and was equally imperative in the replay where Kerry prevailed AET.

Substance over style.

Yes, a massive 2pt half time deficit
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 08, 2017, 11:07:38 AM
This stuff about delivering when needed is absolute tripe. Good players are always needed. And Cooper was consistently a very good player despite being on the wrong end of some disgraceful treatment.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 08, 2017, 02:13:29 PM
This stuff about delivering when needed is absolute tripe. Good players are always needed. And Cooper was consistently a very good player despite being on the wrong end of some disgraceful treatment.

Cooper's persistent diving and attempts to referee games seem to have been airbrushed out of people's minds for years now. He was no saint. The stuff about being able to deliver on the big stage is very relevant, ask Argentine fans about Messi. Time and time again in the big games when your side is in bother you look to your big players and time and time again when Kerry found themselves in trouble, the Gooch did not demand the ball, he did not do what he could do when he was playing Mayo and Cork sides bereft of confidence.

The disgraceful treatment he received would have been no different than that any player of considerable talent would have received over the years. God help him if he ever had to face the Meath side of the 90s. All I hear for Cooper are excuses as to why he never produced the magic he could when his side desperately required it. It was always the likes of O'Ses, Declan O'Sullivan and Donaghy who stood up and carried Kerry when times were rough. How would Gooch have faired if he was swapped with someone like Paddy Bradley or Mattie Forde?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 08, 2017, 02:37:20 PM
bomber talking about Cooper diving and then talking about big Sean in the same sentence, seriously bomber u f**king laughable, Cavanagh been the biggest diver about for years and he didn't produce against Mayo last year even b4 he got the road.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: longballin on April 08, 2017, 03:00:35 PM
Some great players on this board and rubbish Gooch only got 8 All Stars, 5 All Irelands with Kerry and an All Ireland club medal  :o
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: mayoaremagic on April 08, 2017, 03:07:01 PM
Gooch the best ever player to play Gaelic football
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: longballin on April 08, 2017, 03:23:14 PM
Gooch the best ever player to play Gaelic football

 :D don't be getting carried away, not even in top five to come out of Kerry.... Sheehy, Maurice Fitz, Spillane, Mick O', Paudie... maybe in top five forwards
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 08, 2017, 04:41:11 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 08, 2017, 06:26:43 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

For the umpteenth time.

Any chance you can inform me of times Gooch did step up when Kerry were tottering and deliver for them in big games?

If you can't then take your evasive bunkum elsewhere as we're going round in circles. The Gooch nazis do not want to engage in fair criticism of his career, nobody is doubting his talent but his disappearing acts at crunch times is the elephant in the room and pretending it didn't happen is being an ass about things.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 08, 2017, 06:31:24 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

Spot on. Well said. Exposing the folly of his argument there.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Beffs on April 08, 2017, 06:35:54 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

One of his former teammates is hardly an impartial, unbiased observer.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 08, 2017, 06:59:27 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

One of his former teammates is hardly an impartial, unbiased observer.

Fair enough but in fairness tomas just said that gooch was the greatest kerry player he'd seen. In my opinion that makes him one of the best of all time then.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Beffs on April 08, 2017, 07:03:29 PM
You are changing your tune. At first it was Tomas O'Se said he was the greatest forward he has ever seen. Now it is the greatest Kerry player he has ever seen. Bit of a diffference there, no?

Either way, one of this former teamates is hardly an impartial judge, is all I'm saying. If he thought privately, that Michael Murphy, Bernard Brogan or Sean Cavanagh, or a few others, were more effective forwards in big games (not more naturally talented, just more effective) there is no way he is ever going to admit it, not in public anyway.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Main Street on April 08, 2017, 11:17:24 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Cheap. (The post, I mean.)
Cop on to yourself, further proof that apostrophe fiends haven't a sense of humour.
I have already posted that he was the perfect footballer.
He was also tough as nails and had to be.
What's cheap about that?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: rrhf on April 09, 2017, 01:28:33 AM
Lenny who would you rather mark Gooch or Canavan and why?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 09, 2017, 06:20:58 AM
I'd rather mark Canavan. He's about 45 for a start.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hotrocks on April 09, 2017, 10:46:49 AM
I'd rather mark Canavan. He's about 45 for a start.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Clueless!!! more brains in a false face
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 09, 2017, 10:56:28 AM
Canavan may not be the sharpest tool in the box but to call him clueless is a bit harsh. However I respect your right to express your opinion.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hotrocks on April 09, 2017, 11:42:10 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 09, 2017, 03:42:14 PM
Lenny who would you rather mark Gooch or Canavan and why?

Tough choice, 2 great players no doubt. What a 2 man full forward line that would be with those 2 in there.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 09, 2017, 10:30:40 PM
Brolly just destroyed Tomas O'Se about Gooch there.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 09, 2017, 10:41:04 PM
He did, yeah.
Darragh, Tomás and a lot of other serious players were on those teams that lost to Tyrone & Dublin.
Why does Cooper bear responsibility for those losses?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 09, 2017, 10:59:12 PM
He did, yeah.
Darragh, Tomás and a lot of other serious players were on those teams that lost to Tyrone & Dublin.
Why does Cooper bear responsibility for those losses?
Apparently he didn't get on thr ball often enough. Never did anything in those losses. Never looked for the ball. Never beat his marker. Never showed leadership. All the others showed such amazing leadership and did everything they were asked to, dug them out of holes, beat their marker, scored, defended, did the 'dirty work'. Cooper just ruined everything the other 15 players plus subs did. Apparently.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 09, 2017, 11:16:12 PM
Brolly just destroyed Tomas O'Se about Gooch there.
Tomas couldn't but cringe at what he was hearing. Only thing that was destroyed was whatever credibility Brolly had left, a parody of himself at this stage.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 09, 2017, 11:29:46 PM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2017, 11:36:29 PM
With the current Dublin side we're seeing that the Kerry-Tyrone debate of the last decade was a bit matterless. Neither would hack it against them.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 09, 2017, 11:40:11 PM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

Eke, not "eek", eek!  :P ;)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 09, 2017, 11:48:07 PM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

Eke, not "eek", eek!  :P ;)


Go raibh maith agat - Múinteoir
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 09, 2017, 11:51:39 PM
Go raibh maith agat - Múinteoir

Ná habair é, a chara  ;)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: randomusername on April 09, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
With the current Dublin side we're seeing that the Kerry-Tyrone debate of the last decade was a bit matterless. Neither would hack it against them.

They probably wouldn't have hacked it against Mayo either considering the Dubs beat them by a point in two All-Ireland finals.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 09, 2017, 11:56:20 PM
With the current Dublin side we're seeing that the Kerry-Tyrone debate of the last decade was a bit matterless. Neither would hack it against them.
The current Dublin side were beaten by a Kerry team today that aren't a patch on the previous Kerry AI winning teams or the Tyrone teams of 03,05,08. Time for you to move on or hack into something else.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 09, 2017, 11:58:05 PM
With the current Dublin side we're seeing that the Kerry-Tyrone debate of the last decade was a bit matterless. Neither would hack it against them.
The current Dublin side were beaten by a Kerry team today that aren't a patch on the previous Kerry AI winning teams or the Tyrone teams of 03,05,08. Time for you to move on or hack into something else.

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression Sam wasn't given out in April finals.

Congratulations to Kerry on their big win.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 10, 2017, 12:06:41 AM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

Tomas couldn't think of one because there wasn't one, whenever Kerry were in bother, Cooper disappeared but hush now, the Gooch Nazis will be out to let us know we're not allowed talk about it.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on April 10, 2017, 01:01:24 AM
With the current Dublin side we're seeing that the Kerry-Tyrone debate of the last decade was a bit matterless. Neither would hack it against them.
The current Dublin side were beaten by a Kerry team today that aren't a patch on the previous Kerry AI winning teams or the Tyrone teams of 03,05,08. Time for you to move on or hack into something else.

From that sufferin' syphilitic sisyphus-like hoor from Roscommon (and no offence to those good folk), 'tis actually a compliment of highest order to those he so insufferably casts aspersions on. Verily.  ;) :)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2017, 01:44:20 AM
With the current Dublin side we're seeing that the Kerry-Tyrone debate of the last decade was a bit matterless. Neither would hack it against them.
The current Dublin side were beaten by a Kerry team today that aren't a patch on the previous Kerry AI winning teams or the Tyrone teams of 03,05,08. Time for you to move on or hack into something else.

From that sufferin' syphilitic sisyphus-like hoor from Roscommon (and no offence to those good folk), 'tis actually a compliment of highest order to those he so insufferably casts aspersions on. Verily.  ;) :)

You still seem a bit upset about everything, in general.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 10, 2017, 07:25:39 AM
He did, yeah.
Darragh, Tomás and a lot of other serious players were on those teams that lost to Tyrone & Dublin.
Why does Cooper bear responsibility for those losses?
Apparently he didn't get on thr ball often enough. Never did anything in those losses. Never looked for the ball. Never beat his marker. Never showed leadership. All the others showed such amazing leadership and did everything they were asked to, dug them out of holes, beat their marker, scored, defended, did the 'dirty work'. Cooper just ruined everything the other 15 players plus subs did. Apparently.

Correct and we can also now say bernard brogan isn't that good. In a tight game yesterday he didn't do enough to get his team over the line. The analysis by brolly was totally nonsensical and incredibly insulting to mayo and cork. Gooch is being damned for his superb performances in finals against those teams. Those teams are being dismissed as weak teams who just turned up to be slaughtered. Mayo and cork qualified for the final in those years by being very good teams and beating very good teams. They have shown in other finals that they are well capable of playing well in finals and putting it up to good teams. The fact that kerry beat them well in those finals has a lot to do with the fact that gooch was on the kerry team. The fact that kerry got so close in other finals had a lot to do with the fact they had gooch on their team. Gooch never hid in any final and he alaways was a threat even in losing matches. I've never seen him worse than about a 7/10 performance.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 10, 2017, 08:27:07 AM
Brolly has a point about the overblown nature of the media coverage in the last week.
If he made that point, and that point alone, I would have no problem.
However, it's not Cooper's fault that the media now milk every story for every last headline or click-bait piece.
When Berno retires, which will be sooner rather than later, it'll be twice as bad.
That doesn't make him less of a player.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2017, 09:31:09 AM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 10, 2017, 09:53:48 AM
I doubt Brolly would argue with you there.  ;D
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 10, 2017, 09:56:22 AM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: BennyHarp on April 10, 2017, 11:04:10 AM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 10, 2017, 11:09:32 AM
Just 11? By the absurd logic of some on here he was rubbish because he didn't score enough to win the game.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 10, 2017, 12:00:33 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.

Most of those were frees and he also missed a late free which would've got Tyrone a draw. No bottle.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: BennyHarp on April 10, 2017, 12:01:12 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.

Most of those were frees and he also missed a late free which would've got Tyrone a draw. No bottle.

😂
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: yellowcard on April 10, 2017, 12:14:40 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.

Most of those were frees and he also missed a late free which would've got Tyrone a draw. No bottle.

How many were free kicks?

Canavan was a brilliant footballer but could also be a nasty piece of work on the field as well. Who can forget the time he smashed an opponents jaw in the shower. Similar with james McCartan and smashing up the garda's jaw. The most ludicrous comparision in Brolly's article though was the mention of Michael McAuley who is about as far away to Cooper as you can get. I know that Brolly wasn't comparing Cooper with McAuley but quite why he mentioned him at all I do not know. 
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: BennyHarp on April 10, 2017, 12:17:04 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.

Most of those were frees and he also missed a late free which would've got Tyrone a draw. No bottle.

How many were free kicks?

Canavan was a brilliant footballer but could also be a nasty piece of work on the field as well. Who can forget the time he smashed an opponents jaw in the shower. Similar with james McCartan and smashing up the garda's jaw. The most ludicrous comparision in Brolly's article though was the mention of Michael McAuley who is about as far away to Cooper as you can get. I know that Brolly wasn't comparing Cooper with McAuley but quite why he mentioned him at all I do not know.

10 frees I think. Mostly for fouls on him. The Dubs weren't very disciplined in their tackling in those days - some things never change!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: supersub on April 10, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Aren't ye all talking about him.

Brolly that is, not Gooch.

Job done.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 10, 2017, 12:31:30 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.

Most of those were frees and he also missed a late free which would've got Tyrone a draw. No bottle.

How many were free kicks?

Canavan was a brilliant footballer but could also be a nasty piece of work on the field as well. Who can forget the time he smashed an opponents jaw in the shower. Similar with james McCartan and smashing up the garda's jaw. The most ludicrous comparision in Brolly's article though was the mention of Michael McAuley who is about as far away to Cooper as you can get. I know that Brolly wasn't comparing Cooper with McAuley but quite why he mentioned him at all I do not know.

MacAuley is one of the least natural footballers around, but he always bursts himself to win every ball and drive the team on.
He has the 'warrior' mindset that Brolly referred to, so that's why he mentioned him.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2017, 01:01:38 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

Well to be fair Canavan kicked 11 points in a tight AI final defeat in 1995 and set up the phantom equalizer.

Most of those were frees and he also missed a late free which would've got Tyrone a draw. No bottle.

How many were free kicks?

Canavan was a brilliant footballer but could also be a nasty piece of work on the field as well. Who can forget the time he smashed an opponents jaw in the shower. Similar with james McCartan and smashing up the garda's jaw. The most ludicrous comparision in Brolly's article though was the mention of Michael McAuley who is about as far away to Cooper as you can get. I know that Brolly wasn't comparing Cooper with McAuley but quite why he mentioned him at all I do not know.

MacAuley is one of the least natural footballers around, but he always bursts himself to win every ball and drive the team on.
He has the 'warrior' mindset that Brolly referred to, so that's why he mentioned him.

You have to use your foot to be a footballer.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: joemamas on April 10, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
Brolly has a point about the overblown nature of the media coverage in the last week.
If he made that point, and that point alone, I would have no problem.
However, it's not Cooper's fault that the media now milk every story for every last headline or click-bait piece.
When Berno retires, which will be sooner rather than later, it'll be twice as bad.
That doesn't make him less of a player.

Agree 100% Jinxy,
There are so many pundits and wannabe pundits  nowadays that they all feel the need to attach their name to every piece of breaking GAA news, lest they miss an opportunity for a soundbite on The radio or a quote in some rag. Would it be safe to assume that a lot of them have P.R. people on board advising them to do same. I really get that impression when I read a lot of the comments today.

Sure Brolly has a point. It was total overkill.
More online clicks, more advertising pennies.
Was cooper brilliant absolutely, and I saw an interview on line a few years back that he did in a school in Leitrim, seems very genuine.

Tomas a Se while a brilliant footballer offers Fu*k all as an analyst. I am sure he appeals to some, or maybe someone at RTÉ thinks they have covered the GAA diversity box by having him on there,
But to me it is the same, "sure look I suppose", " I remember one time we played......."
When was the last time he had an something original or inciteful to say.
I tune him out,
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 10, 2017, 03:27:44 PM
Joe.ie are the biggest culprits for this trash.

Some of those articles by Conan Doherty would make you cringe!
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 10, 2017, 04:37:16 PM
https://www.facebook.com/TheSundayGame/videos/1011811675619646/ (https://www.facebook.com/TheSundayGame/videos/1011811675619646/)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 10, 2017, 05:08:13 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And players like mike sheehy and jack o shea weren't all that good either as they didn't win too many tight matches. They won all their games easily against poor teams and when the dubs put it up to them a couple of times those boys went into hiding and didn't get their team over the line. Another poster on the joe brolly thread makes the same point about henry shefflin, he wasn't much good either using this new criteria which is to be applied for greatness.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 10, 2017, 06:15:23 PM
The entire 1982 Kerry team were useless, what did they do when Seamus Darby popped up and beat them singlehandedly, they lost.  Where were Mikey Sheehy, John Egan and Eoin Liston?  Who were the leaders on the Kerry team able to turn that game around when Kerry were being beaten in those last two minutes?

Under Brolly's dogma, Darby was the only man as he changed the biggest game of the year.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 10, 2017, 06:54:13 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

You've completely missed the point.

Nobody is expecting Cooper to have went through his career without having a bad day at the office or going missing now and again when needed. That happens every player.

However, in Cooper's career there has been the distinct absence of any case that can be referred to where in a big game, when Kerry really need him to take a game by the scruff of the neck, where it actually came to fruition. Canavan did it throughout his career, you might recall the time when you lads were reigning All Ireland champions and he inspired his side who were down to 13 men to an Ulster semi final victory over you. For most of the 90s Canavan was a one man team. Cavanagh has plenty of those moments as well, the Ulster final last year, the 2008 All Ireland final. Guys like Joyce, Bradley, McManus, McConville are guys who delivered the goods on a consistent basis and did it when the heat was on.

But there are none of these moments for Cooper and while he might be one of the most talented players of his generation, he's not one of the greatest.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Main Street on April 10, 2017, 06:58:55 PM
 It's a bit ironic in the scheme of Brolly's contradictory wind vane madness, that (warrior spirited) Canavan's very last act on the football pitch was to drag down Cooper in a Cavanagh like rugby tackle, to prevent him from continuing with Kerry's last attack in the 2005 AI final.

 

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 10, 2017, 07:19:23 PM
It's a bit ironic in the scheme of Brolly's contradictory wind vane madness, that (warrior spirited) Canavan's very last act on the football pitch was to drag down Cooper in a Cavanagh like rugby tackle, to prevent him from continuing with Kerry's last attack in the 2005 AI final.

A visual representation of where the two sit in the annals of GAA history..
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: lenny on April 10, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

You've completely missed the point.

Nobody is expecting Cooper to have went through his career without having a bad day at the office or going missing now and again when needed. That happens every player.

However, in Cooper's career there has been the distinct absence of any case that can be referred to where in a big game, when Kerry really need him to take a game by the scruff of the neck, where it actually came to fruition. Canavan did it throughout his career, you might recall the time when you lads were reigning All Ireland champions and he inspired his side who were down to 13 men to an Ulster semi final victory over you. For most of the 90s Canavan was a one man team. Cavanagh has plenty of those moments as well, the Ulster final last year, the 2008 All Ireland final. Guys like Joyce, Bradley, McManus, McConville are guys who delivered the goods on a consistent basis and did it when the heat was on.

But there are none of these moments for Cooper and while he might be one of the most talented players of his generation, he's not one of the greatest.

05 against Tyrone he scored 0-5 and set up Kerry's first goal before getting taken out of it. In 2008 he scored 6 points. When kerry lost to Down in 2010 he practically won an all star for his performance setting up two goal chances out of nothing . In 2011 against Dublin he scored 1-3 and let's not forget his performance against Dublin in the 2013 semi final or the 2007 semi final when he ripped the Dubs apart.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: stew on April 10, 2017, 09:56:23 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

I will remember him for being a big soft hoor that loved to dive at every opportunity, oh yeah, and he was an incredible footballer to boot.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 10, 2017, 10:05:05 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

You've completely missed the point.

Nobody is expecting Cooper to have went through his career without having a bad day at the office or going missing now and again when needed. That happens every player.

However, in Cooper's career there has been the distinct absence of any case that can be referred to where in a big game, when Kerry really need him to take a game by the scruff of the neck, where it actually came to fruition. Canavan did it throughout his career, you might recall the time when you lads were reigning All Ireland champions and he inspired his side who were down to 13 men to an Ulster semi final victory over you. For most of the 90s Canavan was a one man team. Cavanagh has plenty of those moments as well, the Ulster final last year, the 2008 All Ireland final. Guys like Joyce, Bradley, McManus, McConville are guys who delivered the goods on a consistent basis and did it when the heat was on.

But there are none of these moments for Cooper and while he might be one of the most talented players of his generation, he's not one of the greatest.

05 against Tyrone he scored 0-5 and set up Kerry's first goal before getting taken out of it. In 2008 he scored 6 points. When kerry lost to Down in 2010 he practically won an all star for his performance setting up two goal chances out of nothing . In 2011 against Dublin he scored 1-3 and let's not forget his performance against Dublin in the 2013 semi final or the 2007 semi final when he ripped the Dubs apart.

And pray tell us, where was he when the game was in the melting pot in the second half in those games?

Tell me.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 10, 2017, 10:51:00 PM
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 10, 2017, 10:53:46 PM
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Canavan.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Keyboard Warrior on April 12, 2017, 01:40:15 PM
It's a bit ironic in the scheme of Brolly's contradictory wind vane madness, that (warrior spirited) Canavan's very last act on the football pitch was to drag down Cooper in a Cavanagh like rugby tackle, to prevent him from continuing with Kerry's last attack in the 2005 AI final.

A visual representation of where the two sit in the annals of GAA history..

...or that Kerry happened to be on the attack in that particular game
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on April 12, 2017, 09:14:49 PM
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Canavan.

You can't disagree with that?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2017, 10:40:54 PM
Who do you think is the best player of the last 20 years bomber?

Canavan.

You can't disagree with that?

Player or forward?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 12, 2017, 11:01:04 PM
Gooch was the best I've ever seen. Canavan doesn't come close.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2017, 11:02:18 PM
Go on was the best I've ever seen. Cavavan doesn't come close.

Eh?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: macdanger2 on April 12, 2017, 11:38:00 PM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on April 12, 2017, 11:41:34 PM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

I can remember the games against Monaghan and I'm pretty sure they put Dessie Mone on Cooper both times and Cooper was peripheral. From what I remember of the Sligo game, it was Galvin who took Kerry over the line that day. The Armagh game in 2006 was all about Darragh O'Se and Donaghy.

Did Kerry really care too much about Munster finals, is that really as good as it got for Cooper?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 13, 2017, 01:12:51 AM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

Sligo, 2009: 2 points (Kerry scored 0-14, won by a point)
Monaghan, 2008: Didn't score (Kerry scored 1-13, won by 3)
Monaghan, 2007 qf: Scored 3 of Kerry's 1-12, won by 1. MFR top scored with 4)
Westmeath, 2012: Scored 3 of Kerry's 2-10, won by 1. Sheehan top scored with 1-3)

Had some right good returns in the Munster c'ship but I haven't time to look into these right now.

Of course scores don't always tell the full story either. He was a very selfless player when someone else was in a better scoring position and had a hand in many goals for Kerry
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2017, 01:38:32 AM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

Sligo, 2009: 2 points (Kerry scored 0-14, won by a point)
Monaghan, 2008: Didn't score (Kerry scored 1-13, won by 3)
Monaghan, 2007 qf: Scored 3 of Kerry's 1-12, won by 1. MFR top scored with 4)
Westmeath, 2012: Scored 3 of Kerry's 2-10, won by 1. Sheehan top scored with 1-3)

Had some right good returns in the Munster c'ship but I haven't time to look into these right now.

Of course scores don't always tell the full story either. He was a very selfless player when someone else was in a better scoring position and had a hand in many goals for Kerry

It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had.

He was the definition of a head-up player. I'd go so far as to say no other forward in the modern era improved those around him as much as Gooch did.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Ball Hopper on April 13, 2017, 02:01:08 AM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

Sligo, 2009: 2 points (Kerry scored 0-14, won by a point)
Monaghan, 2008: Didn't score (Kerry scored 1-13, won by 3)
Monaghan, 2007 qf: Scored 3 of Kerry's 1-12, won by 1. MFR top scored with 4)
Westmeath, 2012: Scored 3 of Kerry's 2-10, won by 1. Sheehan top scored with 1-3)

Had some right good returns in the Munster c'ship but I haven't time to look into these right now.

Of course scores don't always tell the full story either. He was a very selfless player when someone else was in a better scoring position and had a hand in many goals for Kerry

Only recently has Gooch been the main close-in free taker for Kerry.  Mike Frank Russell and Dara O'Cinneide were the main men in their day...along with Bryan Sheehan taking anything with a bit of distance required.  Mike Sheehy, to whom most Kerrymen compare Gooch with, was freetaker all of his career, and penalty taker on occasion as well.

Colm Cooper scored 23-283 (352) in 85 championship games for an average of 4.14 points per game.  Sheehy's 29-205 (292) in 49 games gives him an average of 5.96 points a game.  Throw in Maurice Fitzgerald's 12-205 (241) in 45 games for an average of 5.36, and you can see where they all sit. Paul Geaney is currently averaging 3.88 points per game and James O'Donoghue is on 3.63 - their stats will be helped by whichever one stays healthiest as they look likely to be the main freetakers for the next while with Gooch gone and Bryan Sheehan getting less playing time. 

Make what you will of stats...but the free taking responsibility adds a bit to totals of Sheehy and Fitzgerald.  General opinion, based on many conversations with Kerry folk, put Gooch ahead of Sheehy and Maurice...far from any scientific poll.  These guys would be followers of the club game in Kerry as well, so they would have a deeper knowledge - and that very issue would make comparisons between players from different counties that bit harder to conduct.

The acceptance that Gooch almost preferred to make the pass and make players around him better, rather than score himself, adds to his lead in the poll.

In my opinion, of course.

Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: The Stallion on April 13, 2017, 08:27:50 AM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Owenmoresider on April 13, 2017, 08:37:44 AM
The problem is he is getting all these plaudits! Has this Kerry team not been put on a pedestal as the best team of that decade? Surely playing on a team with such stature should make it easier to be a person to drive on a team. How in that case when games were tight did they not eek out a win once? Look nobody is saying he was to blame for Kerry losing. Just he was not involved in upping the anti and eeking out a win from the Jaws of defeat. There is no doubting his skill, composure, brain. Just he did not have the full package.

Tomas was asked to name a game where he pulled them out of the fire. Plámás just looked ahead, he could not name one. It was not as if he was caught off guard. He would have been well prompted on the subject before the show began.

I can't remember the details of who scored what but I'm sure if you go back and look at some of the tight games kerry won against "lesser" opposition, he featured fairly heavily - I'm thinking of the qualifier wins against sligo, monaghan (twice?) & Westmeath; the two munster finals against limerick - these are all games that they could have lost (armagh & Tyrone lost such games during that period) but didn't because of the Gooch.

Some of the praise has been a bit ott though tbf

I can remember the games against Monaghan and I'm pretty sure they put Dessie Mone on Cooper both times and Cooper was peripheral. From what I remember of the Sligo game, it was Galvin who took Kerry over the line that day. The Armagh game in 2006 was all about Darragh O'Se and Donaghy.

Did Kerry really care too much about Munster finals, is that really as good as it got for Cooper?
You're correct on that anyway, don't recall Cooper standing out that much in that game from memory.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 13, 2017, 10:21:52 AM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.

I think I agree with that too. I'd know for sure if I knew what taking the top off a defence means.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2017, 11:30:54 AM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.

I think I agree with that too. I'd know for sure if I knew what taking the top off a defence means.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Rossfan on April 13, 2017, 01:09:44 PM
It's Syfspeak Hardy, from a parallell universe.
Nobody else can understand him either ;D
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: AZOffaly on April 13, 2017, 01:18:20 PM
NFL Speak. :)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Hardy on April 13, 2017, 01:20:33 PM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.

I think I agree with that too. I'd know for sure if I knew what taking the top off a defence means.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence)

Thanks for that. Apparently it means "forcing the defense (sic) to respect deep threats by playing 2 high safeties, or one deep safety* at least". To be honest I don't know if I ever saw Gooch do that. I don't know because, even if I'd seen it, I wouldn't have known that was what I was seeing.

* Some sorta life jacket?
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Jinxy on April 13, 2017, 01:21:48 PM
In Roscommon, it usually means it's time for a game of pool.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: BennyHarp on April 13, 2017, 01:35:39 PM
It smacks of someone trying to be knowledgeable and googling cool phrases to impress the lads.... when really he knows feck all about what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2017, 02:18:00 PM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.

I think I agree with that too. I'd know for sure if I knew what taking the top off a defence means.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence)

Thanks for that. Apparently it means "forcing the defense (sic) to respect deep threats by playing 2 high safeties, or one deep safety* at least". To be honest I don't know if I ever saw Gooch do that. I don't know because, even if I'd seen it, I wouldn't have known that was what I was seeing.

* Some sorta life jacket?

All you had to do was click the first link in the search query and you somehow failed in that task.

Some seriously passive aggressive people on this forum.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 13, 2017, 02:27:48 PM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.

I think I agree with that too. I'd know for sure if I knew what taking the top off a defence means.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence)

Thanks for that. Apparently it means "forcing the defense (sic) to respect deep threats by playing 2 high safeties, or one deep safety* at least". To be honest I don't know if I ever saw Gooch do that. I don't know because, even if I'd seen it, I wouldn't have known that was what I was seeing.

* Some sorta life jacket?

All you had to do was click the first link in the search query and you somehow failed in that task.

Some seriously passive aggressive people on this forum.

Says the fella who posted a lmgtfy link instead of an actual link to an explanation
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on April 13, 2017, 02:30:12 PM
This is exactly right :


"It was his vision for passes that set him apart from all other players. There's been lots of good forwards who could kick pretty points, but the sort of passes like the one that took the top off the Dublin defence in 2013 came from a level of awareness that very few players ever had."



Cooper's vision and awareness of others sets him apart from more selfish forwards for me. He created so many goal chances for others with passes which lesser forwards wouldn't even see were on, never mind be capable of playing.

I think I agree with that too. I'd know for sure if I knew what taking the top off a defence means.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+the+top+off+a+defence)

Thanks for that. Apparently it means "forcing the defense (sic) to respect deep threats by playing 2 high safeties, or one deep safety* at least". To be honest I don't know if I ever saw Gooch do that. I don't know because, even if I'd seen it, I wouldn't have known that was what I was seeing.

* Some sorta life jacket?

All you had to do was click the first link in the search query and you somehow failed in that task.

Some seriously passive aggressive people on this forum.

Says the fella who posted a lmgtfy link instead of an actual link to an explanation

If someone has thousands of posts on an internet forum copying and pasting into a search box should be within their capabilities.. assuming sincerity rather than sneer when it comes to questions on this forum is a rookie mistake.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 13, 2017, 09:04:26 PM
Sean Cavanagh isn't worth a shit either. Look at all those losses Tyrone suffered since 2008. Cavanagh is to blame for all those because he didn't show leadership.

And where was canavan's leadership in all the tight games he lost. Not worth a shit either using Brolly's criteria. He was great in the games Tyrone won but in the games they lost , that was when they needed him to step up.

You've completely missed the point.

Nobody is expecting Cooper to have went through his career without having a bad day at the office or going missing now and again when needed. That happens every player.

However, in Cooper's career there has been the distinct absence of any case that can be referred to where in a big game, when Kerry really need him to take a game by the scruff of the neck, where it actually came to fruition. Canavan did it throughout his career, you might recall the time when you lads were reigning All Ireland champions and he inspired his side who were down to 13 men to an Ulster semi final victory over you. For most of the 90s Canavan was a one man team. Cavanagh has plenty of those moments as well, the Ulster final last year, the 2008 All Ireland final. Guys like Joyce, Bradley, McManus, McConville are guys who delivered the goods on a consistent basis and did it when the heat was on.

But there are none of these moments for Cooper and while he might be one of the most talented players of his generation, he's not one of the greatest.

05 against Tyrone he scored 0-5 and set up Kerry's first goal before getting taken out of it. In 2008 he scored 6 points.

Those two games back up Brolly's point to an extent. Cooper took some lovely scores in the first half in 2005 but didn't score from play after the 37th minute. Now Canavan was past his best by 2005 but he came up with a crucial goal at the end of the first half then hit an outrageous point in the second half just as Kerry were threatening a comeback. He helped shift momentum back in Tyrone's favour when they really needed it.

In 2008 Cooper disappeared with the rest of the Kerry team in the closing 15 minutes. Sean Cavanagh took that game by the scruff of the neck at that point, lofting two magnificent long range points to lift Tyrone.  So 2005 and 2008 aren't great examples to use to argue against Brolly. That's not to say there weren't other occasions when Gooch did deliver in such situations, he was a tremendous player. There is some merit in Brolly's argument though, IMO.
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: From the Bunker on May 19, 2017, 03:22:29 PM
'Gooch' counts fifth All-Ireland medal



http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=270398 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=270398)
Title: Re: Gooch Retires
Post by: Syferus on May 19, 2017, 04:11:48 PM
'Gooch' counts fifth All-Ireland medal



http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=270398 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=270398)

Nice problem to have.