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Messages - easytiger95

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1126
General discussion / Re: Rugby - what's the attraction?
« on: March 21, 2014, 07:05:58 PM »

Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.

You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.

You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.

You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.

Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.

You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.







Wexford play at a higher level than I suspect you ever played at, in any code - unless you'd care to enlighten us?

You refuse to define your level for association football - but the simple fact is that the skills of association football are the easiest to learn and practice by yourself with a ball (try practicing a lineout on your own, or hurling without a gable wall or handball alley, or high fielding on your own). Also with the prevalence of five a side games, most active athletes in any code would I'm sure able to give an account of themselves at your mysterious level - let's call it Leinster Senior league, will we?

As for picking up a hurley, the first time I picked one up seriously was three days after my 13th birthday, and I joined the hurling team in my secondary school to get out of class. Five years later I had two Dublin colleges A medals in my pocket, captaining the team from corner back. Maybe not the highest level in the world, but athleticism and an enthusiasm for violence can take you a long way! What about someone like Conal Keaney who spent years away from the highest levels of hurling before coming back and playing in two All Ireland hurling semi finals, winning a Leinster title and a League? Is he the one exception to your rule?

How many didn't play until secondary school? Three or four? Thirty or forty? I thought the basic argument was that you had to be a toff, and only toffs play it - so what do they do up until secondary school than - these many? Subjective and unverifiable - unless you'd like to go through the current squad and say which ones?

So our forwards can't pass a ball more than two yards? I thought they passed better than the French forwards, given the amount of forward passes on their side. Can you pass a rugby ball better then them? Or are you taking about soccer passing - sorry Association football passing!! In that case, i'd still take athletes like Cian Healy or Rory Best to out pass you any day of the week.
Well. I've played in Croke Park*, which is something that no Wexford hurler has done for a long time.

I wasn't aware you had to be a top level sportsperson to comment on these forums. But I guess the show us your medals argument is one that's trotted out by somebody when they've nothing else to fall back on.

Neither Kevin Maggs nor, as I said, John Hayes, played the game until they were 18 and both played international rugby for many years, and in Hayes' case went right to the highest level of rugby there is - the British Loins.

Can you name me an association football player who never played the game until 18 at made it to the top level - ie World Cup or the top division of a major European league? Don't bother saying Kevin Moran or Niall Quinn as you'd be wrong.

Can I pass a rugby ball better than Paul O'Connell or Cian Healy? Well i) if you're measuring a supposed international-class athlete against me, I'll take that as a tacit admission that they are not possessed with a high level of  skill, and ii) I have played rugby**, and could at least spin the ball when passing, so yes, I can pass a ball better. That isn't saying much, mind.

Conal Keaney to the best of my knowledge has always played club hurling at a pretty high level (ie winning our county titles in a row) 2007-10, even when concentrating on football at inter-county level, and you can also bet your life that he was practising away in preparation for when he eventually would return to the inter-county game.

*The fact that it was at Cumann na mBunscoil level is neither here nor there.
**A long, long time ago.


Very dishonest arguments Sidney.

First up, you make a joke of Wexford not playing in Croker but you have - but sure it was only Cumann Na mBunscoil. Well, as i said in my post, I've played there as well - doesn't bring me anywhere close to the level of a current Wexford intercounty hurler, let alone the guys who played for them in the 80's and 90's, Very insulting to lads who are at a level way beyond yourself.

As for being an elite sportsman to comment, i never said that. What I did was to ask you to define the "levels" you are spouting on about. In the absence of that, we can only ask what your qualifications are to make the huge generalisations you are making. Again, if you are just a casual observer of rugby like the rest of us (I've played a couple of games with the oval ball, but I would never rate myself an expert) then stating the the Irish forwards cannot pass, or that rugby is an game without skills compared to hurling/Gaelic/soccer is exposed as the uninformed ignorance that it is. Barstool opinions and you know what opinions are like, don't you?

No I can't name you an "association" football player who left the game at 18 to try another - and given the ubiquity of soccer globally that is not very surprising, even less surprising in Ireland when up to even 20 years ago going between sports was hugely frowned upon (as for Kev Moran and Niall Quinn, there are still some who mourn their loss to Dublin GAA, despite Italia 90).

With Maggs and Hayes, you are completely discounting the possibility of natural aptitude, particularly on the part of Hayes. Not surprising that someone with his bulk (but agile as well with it) was made to be a prop. He is a very interesting example, because initially it was his lifting and open play that brought him to the attention of Munster and Ireland - his scrummaging was widely derided (by George Hook and others for about 10 years) and it was only in the twilight of his career that he got any credit for it. So it took him over ten years to learn the principle role of his position.

As for him making the Lions squad, well I'm glad you brought it up, because it is just another example of your dishonest argument. As you well know, the playing population in rugby both here in Ireland, and globally is far more shallow than in soccer - so put bluntly, there are less people between the bottom and the top of the game. The fact that Hayes made a Lions squad (did he go as a replacement? I think he did) does not illustrate an inherent lack of skills in the game itself - rather a much shallower pool of talent to choose from.

Staying with Hayes, you say you played a bit of rugby - well I'm assuming a talented tyro such as yourself was on the wing, or perhaps fullback? If I'm right about that, if you went in at prop you would have got minced at the first scrum, possibly even spinally injured. Rugby, more than all the other games in question, demands specialisation. John Hayes could not do what BOD did - but the reverse is also true. Different attributes, qualities - different skills. Sheflin can't play flanker - i wouldn't let Sean O'Brien take a 65 (though apparently he is handy enough with a hurl) - that doesn't make Sean O'Brien a dud with no skills.

I'm certainly not measuring you against Paul O'Connell - you are doing that by saying he and the other Irish forwards cannot pass. So I naturally ask how would you know? And then you say you've played a few games and you can spin the ball, so obviously you must be better at passing than them. I'm assuming you made these passes with Pape, Picamoles and Basteraud hanging off you, yes? I'm using the French players as an example because I can only picture you at home, wearing a tricorner hat, swearing that you are Napoleon. Your delusion knows no bounds.

As for Conal Keaney - your original point was that no one could leave the intercounty game for a few years and then pick it up again - which is exactly what he did. As for his club career, well we get back to the question of levels - I think senior club hurling in Dublin is a very high level, and I am also confident that any of those hurlers would make a fist of it at Leinster Senior League level in soccer, which I would also consider to be a high level. I also think that certain members of the Irish rugby team eg O'Driscoll, Darcy, the Kearneys, Sexton, Trimble - could also play Leinster senior League through pure athleticism and temperament. They might take a little longer with hurling (because unlike soccer/gaelic/rugby there are two variables, stick and ball, rather than one) but with application I'm sure they could get to intermediate/senior level depending on aptitude.

To downgrade the achievements of the rugby team at the time of their greatest victory is nothing more than trollery, and sure we don't mind a bit of back and forth. But saying you can pass a rugby ball better than POC or Cian Healy??!! Do you live under a bridge?





1127
General discussion / Re: Rugby - what's the attraction?
« on: March 21, 2014, 04:50:18 PM »

Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.

You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.

You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.

You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.

Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.

You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.







Wexford play at a higher level than I suspect you ever played at, in any code - unless you'd care to enlighten us?

You refuse to define your level for association football - but the simple fact is that the skills of association football are the easiest to learn and practice by yourself with a ball (try practicing a lineout on your own, or hurling without a gable wall or handball alley, or high fielding on your own). Also with the prevalence of five a side games, most active athletes in any code would I'm sure able to give an account of themselves at your mysterious level - let's call it Leinster Senior league, will we?

As for picking up a hurley, the first time I picked one up seriously was three days after my 13th birthday, and I joined the hurling team in my secondary school to get out of class. Five years later I had two Dublin colleges A medals in my pocket, captaining the team from corner back. Maybe not the highest level in the world, but athleticism and an enthusiasm for violence can take you a long way! What about someone like Conal Keaney who spent years away from the highest levels of hurling before coming back and playing in two All Ireland hurling semi finals, winning a Leinster title and a League? Is he the one exception to your rule?

How many didn't play until secondary school? Three or four? Thirty or forty? I thought the basic argument was that you had to be a toff, and only toffs play it - so what do they do up until secondary school than - these many? Subjective and unverifiable - unless you'd like to go through the current squad and say which ones?

So our forwards can't pass a ball more than two yards? I thought they passed better than the French forwards, given the amount of forward passes on their side. Can you pass a rugby ball better then them? Or are you taking about soccer passing - sorry Association football passing!! In that case, i'd still take athletes like Cian Healy or Rory Best to out pass you any day of the week.


1128
General discussion / Re: Rugby - what's the attraction?
« on: March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM »
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic  team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.

All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??

BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.
While Gaelic football is not as skilful a game as hurling or association football, it is still a far superior game to rugby skill-wise and the vast majority of Gaelic football players at any kind of decent club standard could likely play rugby to a reasonably high level if they took up the game in their late teens or early 20s. The same cannot be said of the inverse.

Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?

1129
General discussion / Re: Rugby - what's the attraction?
« on: March 21, 2014, 03:58:56 PM »
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic  team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.

All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??

BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.


1130
General discussion / Re: Oscars
« on: March 04, 2014, 10:22:49 AM »
Just when you get around to liking McConaughey again, he comes out with that speech. Knucklehead.

Thought Leto's speech was heartfelt, was happy for Nyongo, she came across very well. Could take it or leave it for Cate Blanchett, thought Cuaron was funny and McQueen was very nervous - but it just shows you, even a filmmaker as uncompromising as him gets caught up in the Oscars buzz. And poor old Barkhad Arkabi from Captain Roberts - the sommelier joke was poor and you knew from where they had him sitting there was no way he was getting near that stage all night.

Degeneres was good, but even when the audience were participating, trying to show us what good, ordinary sports they are, they still came across as living on another planet. Hooray for Hollywood!

1131
General discussion / Re: sol campbell the disadvantage of being black
« on: March 03, 2014, 09:20:06 AM »
I don't think the FA were racist in not giving Sol Campbell the captaincy as he seems to think. But he does have a point (having read some of the extracts) that the FA may be institutionally racist in the make up of its members and staff, which Campbell says does not in anyway reflect the diverse playing population in the UK.

As for managers, it is a fact that black coaches are woefully under represented in these positions. reminds me of the NFL from a few years ago and the myth that black players could not be quarter backs.

Just because he is wrong about the headline claim, doesn't mean the ones under the banner are wrong as well.

1132
General discussion / Re: Is the whole show couped?
« on: March 02, 2014, 01:45:45 PM »
This entire thread was a Trojan horse advanced to get us to the basic equation - homosexuality = paedophilia.

Which is an atrocious, bigoted, not to mention factually discredited argument.

Ireland becomes more and more like the USA every day, and I'm not talking about gay marriage or increasing liberalisation. I'm talking about right wing nuts, terrified about a perceived shift in power and doing everything in their power to demonise their "opponents".

Iceman, if you worry about the world your children are going to grow up in, how about working towards a world governed by Jesus' own precepts - love your neighbour as you would yourself and judge not lest ye be judged.

You can't go wrong with those.

1133
General discussion / Re: Is the whole show couped?
« on: February 27, 2014, 09:54:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Lord spare us from moral panics!

Lads, if you look hard enough you'll find something that'll convince you that the world is coming to an end. No problem with that in itself, but please try and realise that every generation since Eve was in the Garden has had their own chicken lickens, crying that the sky is coming down.

It's a bit much to worry about the decline and collapse of civilisation because of Facebook's gender policy, at the same time as we are seeing real climate change and weather disasters, an apparent resumption of the Cold War (with an option for hot, if needed), and income inequality not seen since the end of the 19th century.

These are real problems for people of all genders.

and BTW if you're interested in the subject, Jeffrey Eugenides book "Middlesex" is absolutely brilliant, one the best reads of the past ten years IMHO

1134
General discussion / Re: Is the whole show couped?
« on: February 27, 2014, 06:19:37 PM »
Inuits have 50 words for snow - but it's still cold, tricky to walk on and good for making snow men. There might be 51 genders but we all still bleed red, think we're right when we're wrong and have the capacity to surprise ourselves when we least thought we could. Here's to humans, the virus with shoes (copy right the late lamented Bill Hicks)

1135
General discussion / Re: Death Notices
« on: February 24, 2014, 08:55:42 PM »
Only getting that now SS ;D

1136
Thanks muppet - well worth reading - it looks like, at the very least, a terrible culture of complacency and cover-up in the Guards.

1137
General discussion / Re: Neil Francis and gay sportspeople
« on: February 24, 2014, 06:50:55 PM »
Basic misconception on what tolerance is - you do not believe in abortion, you are entitled to live your life that way, ask your family to do the same, try to influence your friends etc. What you are not allowed to do is limit anyone elses right to live to different values.

I grant you that abortion is more complex, given that the traditional religious belief is that the feotus is a viable life fro  conception and by limiting abortion you are upholding the basic right to life of that foetus.

But the last I heard, in the Republic abortion is not freely available, as it is the democratic will of the people to have limited access to it, and the people have been asked on numerous occasions. As for NI, if you disagree with the staus quo, you have the democratic right to work for change. That does not entitle you to block clinics, threaten medical staff or in the most extreme cases in America, kill doctors.

The attitude you display in your posts is one of persecution - which as i said above is a classic conservative trick - you are (I assume) a heterosexual Catholic, who is free to practice his religion, free to marry whatever woman you wish, free to adopt children if you wish. free to send them to a school with a religous ethos if you wish, free to hold hands on a night out with the person you love without wondering if someone is going to smash your head in because of it.

Perhaps when we've finished getting justice for people who truly need it in our society, we can look at the needs of people whose idea of discrimination is not being free to discriminate.



1138
General discussion / Re: Death Notices
« on: February 24, 2014, 05:59:20 PM »
He also directed Groundhog Day - brilliant film.

1139
General discussion / Re: Neil Francis and gay sportspeople
« on: February 24, 2014, 05:28:00 PM »
You have the right to practice your religious beliefs in whatever way they dictate,as long as those practices do not infringe the basic human rights of other members of society. So you can work in the local shop all day, thinking that you disapprove of the gay couple up the road as much as you want. However, the minute you try to implement your beliefs by refusing to serve them because of their lifestyle, you have violated the the social contact that binds us all as citizens in a modern democracy, and you lose my support immediately.

On the other hand, if you truly tolerated them (look up the definiton - to permit without repugnance was one good one) then you wouldn't be bothered either way, and you also wouldn't ask the following
I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?
So in a country that is still overwhelmingly Christian/Catholic, you're asking who will defend your Catholic/Christian view? Classic conservative three card trick.

1140
General discussion / Re: ukraine regime change
« on: February 24, 2014, 11:20:12 AM »
Unfortunately, it is not only a question of economic ideologies. To take the Irish example, some really think they are Russian and some have lost any real sense of being different from Russians as we have west British people here. Also some of those who do not want to be Russian do not necessarily oppose government control of the economy, so like Sinn Féin many of those who want independence haven't the economic policies to make it work.

Which is why the useful fudge of a pan-European identity is the best thing for the situation. We slag off the EU all the time, and with good reason at times, but its basic function was to create a continental entity which we could all own, and in doing so, avoid the bloodbaths of the two world wars.

Ukraine, like Poland is one of those terribly unfortunate countries, fated by geography to be a battleground for competing ideologies - during the Second World War it was where some of the bitterest atrocities between Nazism and Communism took place.

And after the war the internecine savagery was possibly even worse. Savage Continent is one of the most eye-opening (and depressing) histories I've read.

It's getting worrying now with the Russians describing events in Kiev as a coup, talk of "fraternal assistance" for Ukraine - the phrase the USSR used for its "assistance" to Czechoslovakia in 1968 - and even unconfirmed rumours of troop movements.
Just read this morning that Moscow recalled their ambassador. At this stage a return of the Cold War looks like the best of bad bunch of options.

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