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Messages - Itchy

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16
General discussion / Re: Na Gardaí
« on: June 18, 2020, 01:17:37 PM »
Nothing to do with victim blaming.

Why was a garda in Roscommon carrying a gun?
I'm not blaming the victim here but surely Gardai should be looking at their own policies on firearms. Outside of gangland crime which armed response units already deal with, there is next to no gun crime on this state.

The irony.
I honestly don't see the victim blaming? He is questioning police policy, and if that policy is totally necessary. I think its an interesting debate.
Surely the real issue here is that Detective Horkan appears to have had no back up?

I think back in 2015, Garda Golden attended a domestic situation unarmed without back up and had a gun pulled on him by Adrian Crevan Mackin.

Whether a Garda is armed or unarmed it's easy to see how such a situation can be fraught with danger.

That is obviously a major question.

Do Gardai typically respond to these type of incidents alone?

Terrible event and condolences to the family of Det Horkan.

The reports seem to indicate he was going alone to deal with an issue and I also thought that Gardai were not supposed to do that. Something similar happened up in Louth too with a domestic and I have a vague recollection that the garda going on his own was one of the issues there - although he was unarmed.

17
Cavan / Re: Official Cavan GAA Thread
« on: June 16, 2020, 09:08:29 AM »
I wonder will any of our departed players make themselves available again given that they probably have been doing feck all in the last couple of months - McVitty, Moynagh, Clarke for example.

18
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 07:57:34 PM »

19
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 03:00:38 PM »

Lets be honest - clubs are not going to maintain this rigmarole.

Online training boxes will be ticked, hand sanitizers and signage will appear and parents / players will get the appropriate documents. Health Qs may get completed once or twice to ensure there is a buy in / understanding or requirements / paper trail but very quickly it'll be as you were.

The GAA were obviously obliged to roll out these protocols but in reality they are impractical and will get lip service.

My kids have been back at soccer this week and there is not the slightest mention of any of the steps GAA clubs are required to roll out. Drop off and pick up at a council field - that is it.

FAI are even worse, theyve given no guidelines yet at all.

20
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 02:04:19 PM »
If truth be told, I think forcing parents/players to sign a pro forma questionnaire before every session is little more than an exercise in killing unfortunate trees, as a) if someone is now feeling unwell, the chances are they’ve been spreading for weeks, and b) nobody in the history of the world has ever read the questions or thought about the answers on a pro forma document, after they’ve completed it a couple of to times.

But the rest of it I’m finding difficult to argue with. I don’t like it. But I can see the merits.


Signing in every session is the bit I don't get. Sharing pen? Surely the pro forma should only be signed once?

I get the temperature check piece, you can control that with one person doing that and filling in temperature with no contact with player.

Why do you get the temp check piece?

1- It is for people to do at home supposedly and come and declare  their temp and record it at the pitch (no way to police_
2- Temp checks are a total waste of time and are only an arse covering exercise as you can have Covid with no temperature and you can have temperature with no covid.
3- f**k all professional businesses are doing it yet amateur GAA clubs are going to. Utter nonsense

That's the 2nd time you've stated this. In my experience most businesses are taking very strict measures to deal with 1. making sure people stay away if they are symptomatic (including temperature checking) 2. having the ability to support contact tracing if a case arose 3. promoting good hygiene behaviours

Let's also admit that there is a legal aspect to this too. There is going to be a tsunami of compensation claims globally from people who contracted the virus, built around the fact that the business/organisation didn't take appropriate steps to protect them. The GAA are trying to cover themselves.

It may be the 2nd time but it is true regarding temperature checks. The vast vast vast majority of businesses are not doing them, mostly because it give you no data worth talking about. If you dont believe me take a walk through your local town and do a survey on how many businesses are checking your temperature. As i have said to you before I work in a large Pharma company, 1000+ people today. We talk to all the other factories in our region regularly. Only 1 has implemented temp checks and the reason they did it is because some people on the production floor threatened to walk out if they didnt (if you know unions you will know its pointless sometimes arguing)

What companies do is advise people to stay at home if sick, appeal to their better nature in terms of infecting others, educate people regards to social distancing. We cannot force anyone to do anything. The GAA is amazingly trying to go steps further than big pharma companies!

21
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 12:27:04 PM »
Itchy,

Rules, whatever you want to call them.

The lockdown was largely a success because the population in general bought into the sense of “we are in this together”.

Once (in the UK) there became a hierarchical system depending on what you do for living, and how much you like to accept or test the rules, the lockdown pretty much went out the window. Monkey see, monkey do.

What the GAA is attempting to do here is to place a countrywide code of conduct on its clubs and membership. They will have been required to do something along these lines by the Irish Govt, as is every sporting body looking to return to action.

 You might think it’s OTT. But if you leave room for interpretation, the number of clubs with a very liberal interpretation will increase exponentially during July. At which point we might as well have dived straight into competitive action in front of crowds.

The bit in bold is hear say. In fact I'd go as far a to say the Irish Government and the GAA didnt even talk to each other last week prior to Leo Varadkar's annoucement. If they had surely they would have had alignment on the most simple definition of how many people could train together (GAA say 10, Irish Government say 15). Yes I am sure there is expectations that sporting bodies to their bit but what they are proposing is way beyond was could be reasonably expected.

22
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 12:23:55 PM »
If truth be told, I think forcing parents/players to sign a pro forma questionnaire before every session is little more than an exercise in killing unfortunate trees, as a) if someone is now feeling unwell, the chances are they’ve been spreading for weeks, and b) nobody in the history of the world has ever read the questions or thought about the answers on a pro forma document, after they’ve completed it a couple of to times.

But the rest of it I’m finding difficult to argue with. I don’t like it. But I can see the merits.


Signing in every session is the bit I don't get. Sharing pen? Surely the pro forma should only be signed once?

I get the temperature check piece, you can control that with one person doing that and filling in temperature with no contact with player.

Why do you get the temp check piece?

1- It is for people to do at home supposedly and come and declare  their temp and record it at the pitch (no way to police_
2- Temp checks are a total waste of time and are only an arse covering exercise as you can have Covid with no temperature and you can have temperature with no covid.
3- f**k all professional businesses are doing it yet amateur GAA clubs are going to. Utter nonsense

23
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 09:01:35 AM »
The GAA document is 15 pages long. It asks for a a Covid admin person for each group - U6, U8, U10 ...Seniors. It wants a log of everyone who attends training showing that they measured their temperature before they arrive at training (no way to check they did this so its just ass covering). It wants the coaches to sterilise all equipment, balls, cones flags etc after every session (does that mean kids cant kick the ball from one to the other?) They want door handles wiped down after every session. They want every parent of a child to go on line and do a course. Thats some of the highlights.

This is the GAA response and its a total deflection onto parents and coaches and away from themselves. No financial help has been offered either. A very poor response, I hope in light of Varadkars announcement last week that it is re considered.



I'm not sure what the GAA centrally can  do. They cannot dole out money as they have no money coming in, they can't send out a load of cleaners, they can  only provide advice. If local clubs don't want Covid in their community then they just need to get on with it and make it clear to people that vigilance is needed in the times that are in it.

Their advice is to do a load of stuff that most companies are not even doing and asking amateur volunteers to document it which makes them fully accountable for it. What they could have and should have done was to issue some advisory notices to say stuff such as

1- Follow all government recommendations as published on HSE website
2- Until date X social distancing should be followed at training and small groups used (of 15 same as government recommendations)
3- All people entering and leaving the ground such wash their hands with soap and water.
4- Ask parents and players not to attend training if they feel in anyway unwell.
5- Recommend every club assign "1" Covid officer to "oversee" the clubs roll out of the above

They should then have provided the clubs with poster graphics that they could print off and a youtube video that a link could be sent to all members to ask people to attend.

All that could have been communicated to clubs in a 2/3 page document. In addition there are tonnes of GAA people out there like myself that have worked in factories/businesses all the way through this pandemic that could have told them this.

You go to work, you’re easily traceable.

You go to a normal GAA Sunday morning where there’s 100+ kids training over a couple of hours, and 50+ parents wandering about, along with various other locals. One of those parents falls ill a couple of weeks later. How do you go about tracing that?

Not our problem. Every parent knows about social distancing unless they have their heads up their holes. The GAA cannot be responsible for people not adhering to government guidelines. We can put up signs, encourage people etc but we should not be doing contact tracing. The very angle you are coming at this shows how dangerous this 15 page document could be as you somehow think the GAA take the lead here.

By the way, the guidelines I proposed said 15 in a group training, not 100s, as per latest government guidelines.

oh and by the way, contact tracing is actually owned by the HSE not by the places people work. Although in reality they have not done it.

The first question from the authorities would be along the lines of “can you list everywhere you’ve been and you’ve been in contact with for the past 14 days”.

Given that, I don’t really see how the GAA can around requiring a roll call tbh.


——

Re 15 people / 100 people.

If the GAA does not go over the top, then we as people will return immediately to the old ways. Tens of thousands of people marching in London last week is all the proof you need that people will do whatever the hell they like, unless rules are in place.

No Wobbler, the first question from the Authorities is "can you list your close contacts" defined as being withing 2m, face to face for a period of time >15 minutes. That question is asked of the individual, not the club, not the place the work, not the shop you shopped in. Keeping your list of close contacts to a minimum is the responsibility of every individual in the country and not the reponsibility of companies, clubs or business places. If someone in my place or work gets sick, we have no idea who they may or may not have been in close contact with in the canteen, toilets, car park etc, only the effected person can tell us that.

You call them rules. Rules mean there are consequences to breaking them. How does the GAA uphold rules, we cant issue red cards to parents or kids for not social distancing? I say you call them guidelines and recommendations. Everyone knows why you do them and why we need to do them.

24
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 08:37:15 AM »
The GAA document is 15 pages long. It asks for a a Covid admin person for each group - U6, U8, U10 ...Seniors. It wants a log of everyone who attends training showing that they measured their temperature before they arrive at training (no way to check they did this so its just ass covering). It wants the coaches to sterilise all equipment, balls, cones flags etc after every session (does that mean kids cant kick the ball from one to the other?) They want door handles wiped down after every session. They want every parent of a child to go on line and do a course. Thats some of the highlights.

This is the GAA response and its a total deflection onto parents and coaches and away from themselves. No financial help has been offered either. A very poor response, I hope in light of Varadkars announcement last week that it is re considered.



I'm not sure what the GAA centrally can  do. They cannot dole out money as they have no money coming in, they can't send out a load of cleaners, they can  only provide advice. If local clubs don't want Covid in their community then they just need to get on with it and make it clear to people that vigilance is needed in the times that are in it.

Their advice is to do a load of stuff that most companies are not even doing and asking amateur volunteers to document it which makes them fully accountable for it. What they could have and should have done was to issue some advisory notices to say stuff such as

1- Follow all government recommendations as published on HSE website
2- Until date X social distancing should be followed at training and small groups used (of 15 same as government recommendations)
3- All people entering and leaving the ground such wash their hands with soap and water.
4- Ask parents and players not to attend training if they feel in anyway unwell.
5- Recommend every club assign "1" Covid officer to "oversee" the clubs roll out of the above

They should then have provided the clubs with poster graphics that they could print off and a youtube video that a link could be sent to all members to ask people to attend.

All that could have been communicated to clubs in a 2/3 page document. In addition there are tonnes of GAA people out there like myself that have worked in factories/businesses all the way through this pandemic that could have told them this.

You go to work, you’re easily traceable.

You go to a normal GAA Sunday morning where there’s 100+ kids training over a couple of hours, and 50+ parents wandering about, along with various other locals. One of those parents falls ill a couple of weeks later. How do you go about tracing that?

Not our problem. Every parent knows about social distancing unless they have their heads up their holes. The GAA cannot be responsible for people not adhering to government guidelines. We can put up signs, encourage people etc but we should not be doing contact tracing. The very angle you are coming at this shows how dangerous this 15 page document could be as you somehow think the GAA take the lead here.

By the way, the guidelines I proposed said 15 in a group training, not 100s, as per latest government guidelines.

oh and by the way, contact tracing is actually owned by the HSE not by the places people work. Although in reality they have not done it.

25
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 08:33:57 AM »
The GAA document is 15 pages long. It asks for a a Covid admin person for each group - U6, U8, U10 ...Seniors. It wants a log of everyone who attends training showing that they measured their temperature before they arrive at training (no way to check they did this so its just ass covering). It wants the coaches to sterilise all equipment, balls, cones flags etc after every session (does that mean kids cant kick the ball from one to the other?) They want door handles wiped down after every session. They want every parent of a child to go on line and do a course. Thats some of the highlights.

This is the GAA response and its a total deflection onto parents and coaches and away from themselves. No financial help has been offered either. A very poor response, I hope in light of Varadkars announcement last week that it is re considered.


Questions Itchy

What response would you have preferred to see from the GAA? Ultimately they will be gatherings that could facilitate the spread of Covid-19. So I think their choices are 1. Cancel everything, or 2. Put in place stringent measures that minimises the potential for spread, and also enables track and trace in event of Covid being detected among a participant. I don’t think there is a number 3 tbh.

Why did you mention money? What financial undertaking is required here? The purchase of a thermometer and several litres of sanitizer? This is going to be a costly exercise in terms of time. But not financially.

Wobbler - when you go down to the local Tesco or Dunnes to go shopping did the security guard at the door ask you for your temperature and log it in a book, insist on you doing a online course before you enter the shop or did someone in the shop sterilise everything you touched after you left?

If I ran the GAA, I think I would have waited another month at least until I saw that cases and deaths in the country were zero before doing anything. But if we are deciding that we are going to start up again then we need to not make it so that volunteers at club level are accountable for a whole raft of idiotic requests that they could not possibly police.

26
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 12, 2020, 08:28:54 AM »
The GAA document is 15 pages long. It asks for a a Covid admin person for each group - U6, U8, U10 ...Seniors. It wants a log of everyone who attends training showing that they measured their temperature before they arrive at training (no way to check they did this so its just ass covering). It wants the coaches to sterilise all equipment, balls, cones flags etc after every session (does that mean kids cant kick the ball from one to the other?) They want door handles wiped down after every session. They want every parent of a child to go on line and do a course. Thats some of the highlights.

This is the GAA response and its a total deflection onto parents and coaches and away from themselves. No financial help has been offered either. A very poor response, I hope in light of Varadkars announcement last week that it is re considered.



I'm not sure what the GAA centrally can  do. They cannot dole out money as they have no money coming in, they can't send out a load of cleaners, they can  only provide advice. If local clubs don't want Covid in their community then they just need to get on with it and make it clear to people that vigilance is needed in the times that are in it.

Their advice is to do a load of stuff that most companies are not even doing and asking amateur volunteers to document it which makes them fully accountable for it. What they could have and should have done was to issue some advisory notices to say stuff such as

1- Follow all government recommendations as published on HSE website
2- Until date X social distancing should be followed at training and small groups used (of 15 same as government recommendations)
3- All people entering and leaving the ground such wash their hands with soap and water.
4- Ask parents and players not to attend training if they feel in anyway unwell.
5- Recommend every club assign "1" Covid officer to "oversee" the clubs roll out of the above

They should then have provided the clubs with poster graphics that they could print off and a youtube video that a link could be sent to all members to ask people to attend.

All that could have been communicated to clubs in a 2/3 page document. In addition there are tonnes of GAA people out there like myself that have worked in factories/businesses all the way through this pandemic that could have told them this.

27
To save the East Belfast Club being sidetracked time to resurrect this one.
Wonder what Snap, Evil and Michaelg make if this

https://www.balls.ie/football/linfields-uvf-kit-is-really-causing-a-storm-in-northern-ireland-436632

I've always though Linfield a biggoted shower of scumbags so this announcement doesn't make any difference to me. However, I assume that these jerseys are somehow run past the IFA so its hard to see how any body that is genuinely interested in getting catholics involved would allow this to go ahead?

28
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 11, 2020, 11:25:02 AM »
The GAA document is 15 pages long. It asks for a a Covid admin person for each group - U6, U8, U10 ...Seniors. It wants a log of everyone who attends training showing that they measured their temperature before they arrive at training (no way to check they did this so its just ass covering). It wants the coaches to sterilise all equipment, balls, cones flags etc after every session (does that mean kids cant kick the ball from one to the other?) They want door handles wiped down after every session. They want every parent of a child to go on line and do a course. Thats some of the highlights.

This is the GAA response and its a total deflection onto parents and coaches and away from themselves. No financial help has been offered either. A very poor response, I hope in light of Varadkars announcement last week that it is re considered.

29
GAA Discussion / Re: Safe Return for Gaelic Games
« on: June 10, 2020, 09:09:33 PM »
What the gaa sent out to clubs last week was the greatest effort in arse covering that I've ever seen and is impossible to implement or police.

30
General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: June 06, 2020, 03:50:23 PM »
Brilliant to see the virus receding, especially when it's pretty obvious that a lot of the measures are all but being ignored in many cases.

What is the rationale behind the rates dropping so consistently?  Even in England, they are seeing their 7-day average death rate coming down pretty consistently.

Have they got the principal mode of transmission wrong?  Is it spread by skin-skin contact?  Because that is the one thing that I think almost everyone is still avoiding (and/or sanitising hands well).  Or has the virus mutated into something more benign?

RadioGAAGAA, what are your thoughts on this?

It seems today's Corona virus doesnt pack the same punch as the one that came a few months back. Its clear there is still an awful lot unknown about this virus.

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