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Messages - The Iceman

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1
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: November 01, 2018, 12:55:02 PM »
"I'm all about tolerance and consideration"

*Implies threat of physical violence"

Good lad.

Not at all gallsman. The likes of Gabe goes for the jugular on here but wouldn't say boo to a fly in real life. I would never lay a hand on him.
I haven't laid a hand on anyone in years outside of a training facility. There's no need for carryon like that.  Just like theres no need to speak to anyone the way you do to me on here.  If you were to speak to me like that in person, could I take that as an threat of physical violence or impending confrontation? If someone cursed at you or insulted you that way to your face what would you think was on the cards? I'm retreating to my safe space for a few minutes.....

2
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: November 01, 2018, 12:11:47 PM »
So, person worried about the dangerously repressive attitude in "Islam" towards women and homosexuals' rights (which he openly campaigned against on the pages of this board during the marriage equality referendum) turns for advice to a man who has advocated for the policy of forced monogamy (Jordan Peterson supports compelling women to have sex with disaffected young men in order to prevent them becoming mass murderers) another man who has spoken of his support for the practice of underage boys having sexual relationships with older men (Milo reckons that child abuse is just a rite of passage) and another who has made his career being the editor of a misogynistic and alt right aligned online magazine (Shapiro began as an editor at Breitbart).

This is beyond parody Ice. You may think you are "heightening the contradictions" and "owning the libs" - but all you're doing is revealing yourself as an easily led bigot.

Very sad, and a long way away from your stated Christian values.
Is it possible to agree with someone on something but not everything Easytiger?
Is it possible for me to agree with Jordan Peterson on his views on feminism today? On equal rights? On the pay gap and why it exists? But not on whatever you have dragged up? He's not a Christian, not even close, but still I listen to his commentary.
Is it possible for me to agree with Milo about the threat of Islam? I obviously don't agree with his lifestyle choice, but still I listen to his commentary. Very bigoted of me.
Is it possible to listen to Ben Shapiro and agree with some of what he says (I've went after him online for his views on the conflict in Palestine).

There's a problem with grooming gangs in England. Reading the articles, the victims report that the perpetrators use religion as justification for their actions. I haven't heard of priests or anyone else involved in abuse in the Catholic Church citing religion as reason for their abuse. In my opinion Islam is dangerous. I've stated the reasons above. it is not a religion of peace. 

Instead of discussing the actual issues I raised and discussing like adults, most people prefer to throw insults, or ridiculous arguments of 'well people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'..... because I'm a Catholic? Really?

Owning the libs? What does that even mean?

Catholics are not republicans (in the American sense). We are pro life and all about social justice. That's contrary to what both parties in the US stand for. They're either one or the other....supposedly..... I try to listen to many sources and come up with my own ideas and opinions. I disagree with a lot of what I read and hear on both sides. I'm open to thinking differently and having my mind changed but not by insults or purposeful aggression. A lot of hard men on this thread who would shit themselves before speaking like that to me in person.  It's possible to discuss things.

3
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 07:28:12 PM »
it's nothing to do with the Priest. These opinions have grown over time. In fact I'd be just as influenced on the subject by a gay Jewish man in the form of Milo Yiannopoulos as I would be by my priest and my church.  He points out its the biggest hypocrisy of the left. Homophobia is a christian bakery not baking a cake....but when Muslims through a gay man from a rooftop to his death....free pass.....
Have a watch at some of his interviews.

Listen to Jordan Peterson.

Ben Shapiro.

Some interesting commentary from all of these guys from varying backgrounds.

4
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 05:35:28 PM »
Heganboy appreciate your copy and paste efforts. The Church is a living and breathing entity. The documents you cite are from 60+ years ago and the bible quotes you cite don't change anything I said? Pope Francis is doing his best to find common ground, to further relationships, to open doors to reconciliation.... He is speaking in love but we are called to speak the truth in love and he often leaves out the truth part. He's great at sugar coating but the hard messages have to be delivered sometimes and he doesn't do that.

Here's a 2 year old article on how and why the Church's non-doctrinal teaching on Islam is changing:
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2016/09/08/time-for-catholics-to-reconsider-islam-and-the-prophet-muhammad/

And for Mike Tyson (because it's my job of course to respond to your every request):
In lay man's terms:
God has a begotten Son — Allah has no son
God is complex (3 in ONE) — Allah is simplex
God never changes — Allah can not only change his mind, he can also change his nature.
God Loves Sinners — Allah hates sinners

How Does Muhammad match up to being a Prophet of God?
Moses — Father of Judaism
Jesus — Father of Christianity
Muhammad –- Father of Islam

Compare the three
As warriors
Moses did battle against Amalek because he was attacked.
Jesus never took up the sword or ordered his disciples to do so.
Muhammad led in 66 military campaigns and robbed Trade Caravans often.

In Sexual Purity
Moses was faithful to his wife Zipporah
Jesus never married nor did he have physical relationship with any woman
Muhammad had at least 19 wives and countless concubines — Sexuality is a big part of Islam. Even sex with children (one of his wives was 6 years old and he consummated the marriage with her at 9 years old)

But I'll go back to my original comments which I had hoped someone would address?
Do you think Islam oppresses women? Evidence would suggest that in majority muslim countries this is true.
Do you think that Islam accepts homosexuality? Evidence would suggest that in majority muslim countries it definitely does not -it outlaws it and in many countries it is punishable by death.

and the reasons you won't hear about this in Mass in Ireland or whatever airy fairy parish you are going to is because the Priest there is struggling to keep bums on seats and tells people what they want to hear. A mass in armagh today is 40 mins including a homily - it's a joke. And our Priest's mesage doesn't fill the pews. I go to a very poor parish and our priest has been asked to relocate to larger parishes in wealthier areas but refuses to leave in favor of a quieter life. He's a retired principal of the seminary in D.C. He's not some rogue with a mission - he's a learned man...

5
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 04:18:35 PM »
There's rogue pastors and individuals all over many religions making their living through charismatic preaching and preying on naturally existing predispositions - what does your papal leader say about Islam?

That aside - as I mentioned in my initial post we are facing an ever increasing mix of many attributes that were once confined to separate countries and "identities". Assimilating these mixes peacefully and seamlessly is a challenge, of that there is no doubt. Nationalism as it's currently being peddled from a political perspective is pissing in the wind of the reality of human movement throughout the world and is a futile effort.

I find the dehumanizing/downgrading of the human elements that make up any certain demographic to be dangerous rhetoric at best.
It doesn't matter what the Pope personally says about anything Puck. He isn't the church. He's the servant of the Church just like our priest (who btw certainly isn't a rogue Priest).

6
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 03:10:15 PM »
Much to respond to there Iceman.

No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily

So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).

Quote
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.

You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
You would be shocked what I hear from the pulpit every week Puck. It wouldn't slide with your leftist ideals at all mate.
My Pastor is one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He's a real scholar. His homilies are easily a half hour every Mass (that's including week days) and it's like going to a lecture. The richness and depth of his teaching is great.
He has repeatedly affirmed the above messaging. He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today.  You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it. 
If you read the Qu'ran in chronological order when Mohammad moved from being a man of Peace to a War Monger he wrote that everything he wrote in the second part of his life supersedes the earlier life and earlier writings.  He taught "convert, subjugate or kill". There is nothing peaceful about that.... where do you think Jihad comes from?
It's a religion, in it's truest form, that suppresses women, encourages violence against those of us who would not be converted and uses the sword to spread....

7
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 12:50:46 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....

What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?
I already posted why - in my original post - but I'll post one of the articles again here for you:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a

8
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 12:34:44 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime.... 

9
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 12:32:11 PM »
Iceman

That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism  ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?

"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"

Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
Are women oppressed in Muslim countries?
Is homosexuality outlawed in Muslim countries?
Would you send your wife/mother/sister to live in a Muslim country?

You didn't bother to address any of the points I made. Other than ask non related questions of your own and point fingers at catholicism....

10
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 31, 2018, 11:45:31 AM »
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.

Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.

We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.

I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.

There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)

You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women.  In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse.  I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....

In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.

Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.

11
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 30, 2018, 09:42:14 PM »
Correct me if I've got the wrong end if the stick but I think a member of  your organisation is in no place to be throwing stones.
you're going down a very slippery road with that comment.....but good job on addressing the actual post

12
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 30, 2018, 07:58:14 PM »
You think there’s not enough outrage about the fact that these criminals are Muslim? Is that it?
No, I think because they're muslim, a lot people are afraid of being politically incorrect, racist or otherwise and aren't talking about the links between fundamentalism and the abuse

13
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 30, 2018, 07:04:53 PM »
Is the religion of white men involved in paedophile or sex abuse rings always mentioned?
If someone is using religion to justify their actions then their religion should be mentioned.  Taken from the article:
Quote
“Muslim girls are good and pure because they dress modestly, covering down to their ankles and wrists, and covering their crotch area. They stay virgins until marriage. They are our girls.

"White girls and non-Muslim girls are bad because you dress like slags. You show the curves of your bodies (showing the gap between your thighs means you’re asking for it) and therefore you’re immoral. White girls sleep with hundreds of men. You are the other girls. You are worthless and you deserve to be gang-raped.”

14
General discussion / Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 30, 2018, 04:36:28 PM »
Hardy if you read the BBC reports you'll find they rarely if ever mention the men are Muslim. They'll report that they are Asian. But that's as far as they will go.  Why?

A lot of people don't like the Indo - but they report on the fact that these gangs are made up of fundamentalist muslim men.

I posted the Indo's account and the Forbes account to highlight the other side who are actually speaking up.  Unfortunately the mainstream media like the BBC are not calling out the fact these men are muslim men and their religious beliefs in many cases are driving their behavior....

15
General discussion / Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« on: October 30, 2018, 03:54:15 PM »
Are we more concerned with political correctness than crime?
There have been many reports in recent weeks and months of gangs of muslim men in towns throughout england systematically grooming and abusing children. The one reported yesterday on the BBC news website was particularly harrowing: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ 

This is an account from one of the survivors: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html

And an article from Forbes.com on the widespread abuse in Rotherham: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a

Here are some more wiki references of other abuse rings if you care to read them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_child_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_child_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_child_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keighley_child_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

I would point to the survivors comments of the rhetoric at the time of the abuse, the men's attitude towards white people and their religious outlook.
At the risk of being called rascist or anti-muslim, the media and the public at large are not addressing the problem or the fundamentalist beliefs of the perpetrators which the survivors say is their motivation for the abuse.....

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