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Messages - Estimator

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General discussion / Re: Premier League 2019/20
« on: Today at 11:13:26 AM »
He was being a bit cheeky going out that far and Bryan took advantage. Fulham got home 2-1 in the end and will be in the premier league next year.

Fulham it is then.  Perhaps the playoffs final experience helped them.  Brentford could be raided a little as some of their players are in big demand by lower PL clubs.  Watkins and Benrahma would be high on a few lists.

A transfer clause has kicked in following their defeat to Fulham.  He is available for £18mill.

In fairness to Parker, there were no players that year who were obviously stand-out performers.
Yeah, just had a look at the other awards that year.
Gareth Bale - PFA Player of the Year
Jack Wilshere - PFA Young player of the Year.
Raul Meireles - Fans Player of the Year

Vardy (2016) and Parker (2011) are the only two this decade not to have won any of the other individual trinkets being handed out at this time of the year.  Salah & Suarez the only two pick have a clean sweep of all the awards this decade.

There's a lot of people too tangled in it....

Scott Parker won it one year ffs, David Ginola got it the year United won the treble... A trinket that's not worth debating too much.

Had to check that one. But, in fairness, he is definitely an outlier looking at the winners just over the last 20 years - Henry, Ronaldo, Gerrard, Hazard, Suarez, Rooney, Bale, Lampard, Salah.

Henderson is well deserving of any awards coming his way this season. Henderson is the driving force behind a team that has blitzed all before it in the league this season. That should be recognised.  But couldn't have argued if the award had gone to any of Mane, VVD, Trent, Robertson or De Bruyne either.

Some comments about Henderson are simply nuts. Of course he's not the most skilful or talented player in the league but very much a vital and influential player in the Liverpool team who have excelled these past two years. He has consistently done the job he's made for, better than any other player in that position. FFS football is about a team. Liverpool are not quite the same without Henderson. It's how it works, different types and styles of players for different positions. VVD was an essential buy for the defence, without him the last two years success would not happen. Firmino doesn't score like Mane or Salah but the other two need him to function as well as they do. Henderson is that vital cog, the fulcrum of one of Liverpool's best teams. Chances are, if you ask teammates about the best player they've played with he would be near the top.

I'd still suggest that if you set up a  poll of Liverpool fans only. With the question regarding which Liverpool player would you not want missing 10/12 games next season. Henderson would probably end up 5th behind Allison, VvD, Mane & Salah. Maybe even 7th behind TAA and Robertson. I wouldn't say Liverpool are weaker when he isn't in the side, but they definitely are weaker without the first 4 names mentioned.

Derry / Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« on: July 28, 2020, 12:09:24 PM »

Derry GAA fans will be able to enjoy unprecedented coverage of the 2020 Club Championships from the comfort of their own homes this season, thanks to a new dedicated streaming platform being launched on

The new service, called #WeAreDerry, will livestream at least 10 games from our club Football and Hurling Championships, and will offer full deferred coverage of the majority of the remaining matches taking place in the Oak Leaf county in 2020.

With social distancing measures in place due to the Covid-19 pandemic, attendance at matches is likely to be severely restricted this summer. But for £30, Gaels in the county – and around the world – will be able to see nine live matches from the Derry Senior Football Championship: two group games, two last 16 matches, two quarter-finals, both semi-finals and the final. In addition, the finals of the Intermediate and Junior Football Championship and the county’s Senior Hurling Championship showpiece will also be livestreamed.

The first games to be streamed live on the new service will be Loup’s clash with Bellaghy (this coming Saturday, August 1st) and the second round group game between Glen and Magherafelt, a repeat of last season’s Derry SFC Final. On top of the impressive slate of live matches, full coverage of the majority of all other Championship games will be available to watch on the #WeAreDerry platform, on-demand, after they have taken place.

As an alternative to the full #WeAreDerry package, live games can be purchased individually for a cost of £5.

Derry GAA Chairperson Stephen Barker is confident that the new service will prove attractive to GAA fans both within and beyond the county:

“Our Championships in Derry are perennially among the most competitive anywhere in Ireland and our games regularly attract supporters from other counties across Ulster. Over 10,000 people saw Magherafelt win our Senior Football final in October 2019.”

“As everyone continues to navigate their way through the Covid-19 crisis we feel it is important to ensure as many people as possible have access to our matches. Even in the most optimistic scenario, we know that social distancing measures will restrict the numbers of people who can physically go to games – and we are very aware that some of the most vulnerable members of our community will be shielding and completely unable to attend matches.”

“Like every county across Ireland, our hurling and football championships are part of the rhythm of summer and autumn. Thanks to our new streaming service, supporters will still be able to see every important pass, block, point and goal that happens in Derry this summer. Streaming of live matches is a hot topic at present so the uptake for the upcoming set of games will determine whether or not it has a future for our club championships.”

“We don’t take our supporters for granted and we appreciate that their valued contribution to this innovative service will help us invest in facilities and GAA structures across Derry, enabling us to implement the improvements we hope to deliver in the years ahead.”

Barker was also keen to point to the continued generous support of Derry GAA sponsors, despite a difficult 2020 for the business sector:

“Without the fantastic support of all our sponsors, especially through the most recent challenging months, it would be very difficult for us to take on these types of projects. We acknowledge the challenges some of these businesses face currently, yet despite that, they have continued to show enormous generosity to Derry GAA.”

As a special introductory offer, a nine-month Season Pass subscription to the #WeAreDerry streaming platform will cost £30 (normally £5 per month). To subscribe, visit

GAA Discussion / Re: Joe Brolly
« on: July 22, 2020, 09:11:25 AM »
Yes but that cork team was too old to play in an all Ireland final. Down lifted that era. The other 3 teams including Dublin were scrappy stuff but fair play. The 96 Meath team had forwards and midfield and defence as well

Cork had 7 players under 25 in their starting line up.
Derry had 7 players under 25 in their starting line up.

Cork had 1 outfield player 30+ in their starting line up.
Derry had 2 outfield players 30+ in their starting line up.

GAA Discussion / Re: Joe Brolly
« on: July 20, 2020, 04:20:04 PM »
The difference in that match:

Down had Greg Blaney at CHF
Derry had Dermot McNicholl

I'd agree. Watched the match again when it was shown on tg4. Blaney was head up looking for a pass, McNicholl was head down running. Barton would have made a huge difference, not only in passing and vision, but holding on to the ball and making the right decisions.

As for Joe's comments, I doubt there is anyone in Derry who disagrees with his view on getting McKeever switched over to Linden earlier in the game.  In the '93 game Scullion marked Linden (it was Tony's first game back after an ankle injury in the league). Linden give him the run around early on and Scullion got the Shepherds Crook, before half time. In the '93 AI Semi-Final, Quinn was getting roasted by Vinny Murphy. Coleman took Quinn off in the first half. Derry fans believe something similar should have happened in '94, ultimately it might not have changed the outcome. But I'd say every Derry fan still questions that decision.

And as for Brolly's own performance, the first couple of points he took where superb. Immediately after Higgins joined the fray the next two balls in that direction went straight over the sideline with Brolly out in front of Higgins. He might not have scored for the rest of the game, but the supply was poor. He still set up the goal and won a few scorable frees.

Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: July 05, 2020, 04:02:44 PM »
It’s a shitty headline.. he’s not exactly a Tyrone GAA Star. Did he even play a championship game?

One C'ship appearance - Fermanagh 2003
4 NFL appearances.

In fairness, Liverpool were only 3-2 down at half-time in that '94 game against Utd. Utd were 3 up, but Clough scored two quick goals before the break.

Derry / Re: Derry Club Football & Hurling
« on: July 01, 2020, 12:15:00 PM »
The county squad has been trimmed a right bit. Gallagher working with a far smaller panel than he was pre lockdown.

Gallagher's decision or have players decided (like Niall Morgan predicted in a recent interview) that the time spent in lockdown has given all inter-county players an appreciation of how much time they spend out of their house and away from their families.

GAA Discussion / Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« on: June 24, 2020, 09:17:08 PM »
Having considerably more time than sense lately. I decided to check out Cillian’s scoring returns, some of them at any rate.
I decided to concentrate on his championship games from 2011 to 2019, his entire championship games so far, that he scored in and I used Willie Joe’s blog for the statistics.
The format I used is fairly straightforward.
The year, the number of games he scored in, the monthly total of actual scores and finally, the number of scores from frees, penalties, 45s etc.

So, here goes….

2011, 5 games, total score 1-19, frees etc. 0-14
2012, 5 games, total score 0-21, frees etc. 0-19
2013, 5 games, total score 6-22, frees etc, 0-18
2014, 6 games, total score 5-36, frees etc. 4-25
2015, 5 games, total score 3-34, frees etc. 1-29
2016, 9 games, total score 2-44, frees etc. 1-34
2017, 10 games, total score 3-66, frees etc. 1-48
2018, 4 games, total score 3-22, frees etc. 0-18
2019, 6 games, total score  2-26, frees etc. 0-19

He scored in a total of 55 games, notching up 25-290 in all with 7-224 from placed balls. His total from play in that period was 18-66.
His overall score in points was 365 and of that, 245 came from placed balls and 120 was from open play. In other words,approximately one third of his total came from open play.

I have COC record as 25-297(372) in 55 championship  games. Remarkable record.  Sean O'Shea and maybe David Clifford  will get close to the record.

Yeah, serious return, but he's no Dazzler McCurry  ;D

Oh look, a Derry man itching to satisfy that chip on his shoulder.

Highly unlikely anyone will get close to O'Connor's record as nobody will quite get an ecosystem quite like O'Connor has had with Mayo to harvest handy scores.

Chip? Ah ha, you're the man continuously lambasting O'Connor. Haven't seen you call out any other poster on their county. Just shows, even in our current predictiment, we're never far from your thoughts. #thedazzler

Lambasting him?

I'm appraising him as a player, he has always stood out as the weak link in what was/is a fantastic Mayo team.

McCurry is not a top class forward but neither is O'Connor. You're the guy whose obsession with Tyrone saw you bring a Tyrone man into it.

I think it was The Dazzler who broke Derry's hearts last summer, still greeting over it?

Angelo, you've brought McCurry into this thread on a number of occasions. You've compared him favourably with O'Connor. You've said (twice) that McCurry could end up as Tyrone's all time top c'ship scorer. I'd assume that JoG2 mentioned him, because you introduced him into the conversation.

GAA Discussion / Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« on: June 24, 2020, 11:53:56 AM »
In fairness, 120pts from play, in Championship football puts him ahead of many others in the scoring charts. With just his scores from play he'd be ahead of many players total scores. Examples - Derry's Mark Lynch and Enda Muldoon. Ahead of Martin McHugh, D Connolly, D O'Sullivan and Tompkins.  Another 15 points from play and he'd overtake the totals of Mugsy, Coulter, Thomas Freeman, B Devenney, Enda Gormley and Paul Barden - and a good few of those got the bulk of their scores from frees.

A lot of those guys were half forwards and part time free takers and never took penalties playing for teams who did not dominate opposition quite like Mayo have.

Muldoon for example played a lot of football at midfield and probably played less Championship games in his career than O'Connor has to date.

Context is extremely important.

Of course it is. I have Muldoon and Lynch making 54 C'ship appearance for Derry. Muldoon did play out field a bit, but was regularly used as FF, as he was when Derry got to the AI semifinals in 2001 & 2004.

I have O'Connor on 55 appearances (one more than Lar accounted, but we'll not fall out over that)

The following players have made more than 55 C'ship appearances:
Gooch - 85
John Doyle - 67
Murphy - 67
B Brogan - 66
P Joyce - 60
McDonnell - 62
McManus - 57
S O'Neill - 65
Mulligan - 61
Coulter - 58

Quite a few of those were predominantly inside forwards and the go to men on the dominant team, as well as hitting frees.  A few of them have multiple All-Ireland titles. Some have one. Only Doyle, McManus and Coulter are without.

And if we are applying the logic of discounting large individual scores against "weaker" opposition, then the same should be applied to all players.
Eg Dean Rock scored 1-11 against Roscommon last year(?) That's gone.
The 3-04 McDonnell scored against Limerick in 2003
The 3-04 A O'Shea scored against Sligo in 2015

I think we should set up and panel to decide which scores count and which do not.

GAA Discussion / Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« on: June 24, 2020, 10:39:06 AM »
In fairness, 120pts from play, in Championship football puts him ahead of many others in the scoring charts. With just his scores from play he'd be ahead of many players total scores. Examples - Derry's Mark Lynch and Enda Muldoon. Ahead of Martin McHugh, D Connolly, D O'Sullivan and Tompkins.  Another 15 points from play and he'd overtake the totals of Mugsy, Coulter, Thomas Freeman, B Devenney, Enda Gormley and Paul Barden - and a good few of those got the bulk of their scores from frees.

GAA Discussion / Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« on: June 22, 2020, 03:16:43 PM »
You’re absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He’s only played 60-odd championship games. It’s not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone’s blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven’t had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

Yup, if you put any of the greatest forwards or some fairly average ones in that Mayo team and entrusted them with free taking duties then they'd be topping the all time scoring charts.

For instance I think it's highly possible that Darren McCurry will finish up as Tyrone's all time top scorer in Championship before he calls it a day too and he's been in and out of the Tyrone team ever since he joined the panel, has taken a year out and has not been a regular free taker for the past 4 or 5 seasons now.

Scoring records don't really say a lot particularly for free takers. How would O'Connor survive being double tagged in a one man full forward line in an inferior team like Conor McManus has?

I do know that Tyrone lack a top class inside forward or did until McShane arrived on the scene last year. McCurry and McAliskey blow hot and cold but are very dangerous players in the right system and when they're firing - more dangerous than O'Connor for me personally but none of them are top level. The difference is that between 2011-present I think Mayo have been a lot strong from 1-12 than Tyrone have, you could say they have been stronger from 13-15 too but that would probably be down solely to Andy Moran too.

Just out of interest, what is McCurry's Championship total at present? Canavan has approx 210/220 points to his name.

General discussion / Re: Teachers get it handy!
« on: June 19, 2020, 04:56:23 PM »
Large number of schools will not be able to teach all pupils at one time - Weir
Education Minister Peter Weir
Education Minister Peter Weir Credit: Presseye
A large number of schools in Northern Ireland will not be able to return to full-capacity teaching in September, the Education Minister has said.

Peter Weir's comments come amid concern expressed by some school leaders at the suggestion from Stormont that most pupils will be returning to full-time education in the autumn.

Mr Weir said he anticipated that children would only return to the classroom on a part-time basis "in quite a large number of schools".

In a separate development, Mr Weir confirmed that the executive would be providing the £12 million required to continue financial support for families eligible for free school meals over the summer.

Arlene Foster announced schools will return with a 1m social distancing policy
Arlene Foster announced schools will return with a 1m social distancing policy Credit: PA
On Thursday, First Minister Arlene Foster said the powersharing executive's decision to reduce the social distancing measure to one metre for pupils would allow attendance patterns in schools to return to "close to normality".

On Friday, Mr Weir said the aim was to "maximise" the number of schools that could return to full-capacity teaching, but he acknowledged there would be a sizeable number for which that would prove an "impossibility".

The sooner we can get back to every child being in the classroom all the time getting full-time classroom... the sooner we are able to reach that point, the better for children, better for parents, and I think teachers are very much in favour of that

"But we're not quite there yet at this stage.

"The aim, therefore, at least at this point, is to maximise the amount of time that children will have in the classroom."

"The aim must be to get the absolute maximum.

"There will be some schools who would be able to, because of their surroundings, because of the numbers that are there, will effectively be able to return absolutely full time.

"For others that will clearly be a level of practical impossibility to do that all the time. But therefore we want to see where we can get the maximum amount within that."

Ministers have urged schools to utilise all the space at their disposal to allow them to accommodate the full school population and said where this is not possible they should seek to use nearby community facilities, such as church halls, GAA clubs or Orange Halls.

Principals have voice scepticism at Stormont's plans, insisting it will not be possible to fit all pupils into most schools in the region, even with the reduced social distancing measure.

Mr Weir suggested funding for substitute teachers would be made available if extra staff were required to teach classes set up outside orthodox classroom locations.

He said the community facilities could also be used for supervised learning if children were only able to attend school on certain days.

The minister also acknowledged there would be an issue around school bus transport in the autumn, given capacity limitations due to the virus.

"There's still a problem there that does need clearly resolved," he said.

NI Children's Commissioner Koulla Yiasouma
NI Children's Commissioner Koulla Yiasouma Credit: PA
Northern Ireland's Children's Commissioner Koulla Yiasouma said the safe and effective re-opening of schools would require a "Herculean effort".

She said she welcomed the announcement from Stormont but added: "We cannot under-estimate the work that needs to be completed before the maximum number of children can return as safely as possible, whilst understanding that 100% safety cannot be guaranteed only every possible measure taken."

While pupils will be required to keep one metre apart under Stormont's plans, the social distancing measure will remain at two metres for teachers.

Schools have been closed in Northern Ireland since March. The traditional summer term would normally finish at the end of June in the region.

Teachers will now return to school on 17 August. Key year groups - seven, 12 and 14 - will return a week later on 24 August.

The Department of Education intends that the rest of the school population will go back to class at the start of September.

All primary school children, and secondary school children in younger year groups, will have to remain in protective bubbles limited to their own classes when they return.

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