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Messages - macdanger2

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General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« on: February 28, 2020, 02:51:22 PM »
And while Johnny Sexton quipped that he would have preferred to play the game behind closed doors that option was not viable due to medical considerations.

What would be the medical considerations around playing behind closed doors?

General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: February 28, 2020, 02:07:50 PM »
There is nothing complicated about observing that the symptoms experienced are similar, whether it is a flu virus or this covid-19

John Hopkins medicine  -  flu v covid -19  - although caused by different virus

Methods of transmission are similar.
Both infectious respiratory illnesses
Both cause fever, cough, body aches, fatigue; sometimes vomiting and diarrhea.
Can be mild or severe, even fatal in rare cases.
Can result in pneumonia.

 similarities to the damage caused by SARS and MERS.-  Lanclet

When the body has learned a natural immune response to the symptoms of one virus, that learned immune response is also effective in helping the body to adapt to   to the similar symptoms of a different virus. This has also been the subject of  research on learned immune responses to various flu viruses.
Exposure to a virus is only one factor, the ultimate experience is the body's ability to adapt to that exposure via the learned immune response.
 That is one explanation  why the vast majority of people exposed to this virus experience nothing or just mild symptoms,  and in the main it is the people who are most susceptible (smokers and sick people) who experience  the deep pathology /even death,  again very similar to the patterns of exposure to flu virus.

On the this point, the bodys immune system doesn't respond to symptoms, if it did you'd eventually become immune to the common cold. The body responds to the presense of a virus (and its proteins) in your body. (Viral) Meningitis symptoms are also flu-like, but there is no underlying immune response to that virus (as far as I'm aware?).


The fact that most people get mild symptoms cannot be attributed to an underlying immunity gained from previous flu viruses (unless there is actual studies proving this) - as shown by the fact that very young children (who would have low underlying immunity) are apparently not susceptible to this virus.
Your facts are not yet real facts,  not even Unicef know the why of it all.
According to Unicef
"This is a new virus and we do not know enough yet about how it affects children or pregnant women. We know it is possible for people of any age to be infected with the virus, but so far there have been relatively few cases of COVID-19 reported among children. The virus is fatal in rare cases, so far mainly among older people with pre-existing medical conditions."
Recorded cases  in China in children are approx 1% of total.

Apologies, poor choice of words on my part, I didn't mean that children don't get covid-19, just that they appear to get it less than you would expect (as per your link) - so my point was that that fact doesn't that fit in with your theory of the population having a learned response to this virus.

No point in continuing with this indefinitely but in short, the theory that the body's immune response to one type of virus is effective against a completely different virus is at best completely unproven IMO

General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: February 28, 2020, 11:46:55 AM »
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.

Like sitting beside a person in an airplane for over two hours?  :o

That too, hence the tracing of the people sitting beside the woman from Belfast. It is harder to trace who was sitting beside you at a game.

But if you go to the trouble of cancelling a game because of the risk of sitting beside someone who may be infected how does it make sense to allow that person to sit on a plane in an enclosed space with 100's of others?

You can argue that both flights and sporting events carry a similar level of risk but one is necessary while the other other isn't:

Cancelling a sporting event - easy and negligible disruption
Cancelling all flights to/from a country - difficult and high disruption

General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: February 28, 2020, 11:41:28 AM »
Well, the evidence points to that there is immunity.There are degrees of immunity and that is blatantly evident in that the vast majority of those who get exposed to this virus either can adapt with no symptoms or experience mild symptoms. That is what defines a good immune reaction.
And the evidence as recorded, is that immune response learned from experiencing one flu  can be used in part  against another flu strain, family diffferences notwithstanding.

This is not a flu virus!!! The only relationship it has to the flu virus is that it causes respiratory problems. It's like saying sharks and wolves are the same because they're both vertebrates and they both bite. From a technical point of view, the flu viruses are classified as follows (taken from wiki):

Realm:  Riboviria 
Phylum:  Negarnaviricota 
Class:  Insthoviricetes 
Order:  Articulavirales 
Family:  Orthomyxoviridae 

While the corona virus is:

Realm:  Riboviria 
Phylum:  incertae sedis 
Order:  Nidovirales 
Family:  Coronaviridae 

The fact that most people get mild symptoms cannot be attributed to an underlying immunity gained from previous flu viruses (unless there is actual studies proving this) - as shown by the fact that very young children (who would have low underlying immunity) are apparently not susceptible to this virus.

Virology is complicated stuff!

General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: February 27, 2020, 06:00:02 PM »
Italy = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.

Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.

I've a cousin working in one of the UK hospitals that has some of the 13 UK patients.

He reckons the total cases number and also the total recovered number are misleading. The vast majority of people who get this only have a mild illness, so most of them don't get picked up. He reckons the Italy number is closer to 5,000 cases and then obviously the vast majority of them either recovering or recovered.

Sometime between mid and end of March he's very confident it will be downgraded in severity. Of course there is a risk he could be wrong, but so far he says he's not worried.
I think your relation talks sense.
The majority of people already have varying degrees of a naturally acquired immunity, regardless of whatever strain is in the air. It's a generally acccepted truth that a person who has done a strain of one flu type learns an immune response to that strain for the future  and that learned immunity will also be of varying benefit in the event of exposure to another strain.
A vaccination does not grant a learned immunity even to same flu strain - therefore the repeat vaccinations and is of no benefit with other flu strains.
According to an article in Lanclet, most at risk from developing serious patholgy or even death is the same as with any flu,  the inveterate nicotine addicts/smokers,  older people with underlying issues which are being medicated and people with underlying respiratory issues, also medicated.

This virus is not from the same family of viruses as the seasonal flu so there is no underlying immunity that you're referring to

General discussion / Re: China Coronavirus
« on: February 26, 2020, 12:40:45 PM »
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

A few reasons

1. This is a new virus, previously unknown in humans. We don't know that much about it or what possible mutations may occur
2. There's currently no vaccination for this virus
3. Open to correction on this but the incubation period for the seasonal flu is ~3 days during which time you're not contagious compared to ~14 days for this virus during which you are contagious

GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 - 2020
« on: February 24, 2020, 01:50:10 PM »
Is the TG4 GAA Beo programme available anywhere? I can't find it on the TG4 player

General discussion / Re: Medical Status of Boardmembers
« on: February 24, 2020, 10:07:50 AM »
Fair play BH, good to hear that it's going well

GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 - 2020
« on: February 24, 2020, 10:02:26 AM »

Team        P W D L +/- Pts.
Galway      4 3 0 1 20 6
Dublin       4 2 2 0 7 6
Monaghan 4 2 1 1 12 5
Kerry        4 2 1 1 3 5
Tyrone      4 2 0 2 -17 4
Donegal    4 1 1 2 8 3
Mayo        4 1 1 2 -13 3
Meath       4 0 0 4 -20 0

PP odds to win the league:

Dublin 8/11
Kerry & Galway 4/1
Monaghan 8/1
Tyrone 25/1
Mayo 50/1
Donegal 66/1

To be relegated:

Meath 1/500
Mayo 11/8
Donegal 6/4
Tyrone 3/1
Monaghan 12/1
Kerry 14/1

Meath look like they're gone now with Galway, Dublin & Monaghan to play.

Fixtures for the other three likely to be scrapping it out at the bottom (although if Kerry lose in Castlebar next weekend, they could be dragged into it):
Mayo: Kerry (H), Galway (A) & Tyrone (H)
Donegal: Monaghan (H), Tyrone (H) & Kerry (A)
Tyrone: Dublin (H), Donegal (A) & Mayo (A)

Those last two games for Tyrone against Donegal & Mayo look like they'll be the key games in deciding who gets relegated. That hammering yesterday means we're probably screwed if it comes down to points difference between ourselves and Donegal.

GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 - 2020
« on: February 21, 2020, 11:04:04 AM »
Is the mayo/Monaghan game on Sunday likely to go ahead or how is clones pitch in wet weather?

General discussion / Re: Electric garage doors
« on: February 19, 2020, 06:09:06 PM »
Is there a window into the garage that you can jam open?

GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 - 2020
« on: February 18, 2020, 10:37:18 PM »
TG4  have scheduled deferred coverage of the Monaghan Mayo game, sometime after the Galway Tyrone game.
Usually Mayo supporters can't stop nattering about all things Mayo, perhaps cowed into silent apprehension about Sunday's encounter?

It's a massive game for Mayo. Lose and I think we'll be in Division 2 next year. I'm not expecting a Mayo win given the Donegal and Meath performances. You can make an allowance for the Dublin game, but I think Dublin would have upped the tempo anyway in the second half if we had the fifteen for the whole game. The younger forwards badly need to step up to the plate this weekend for us to have any chance of getting anything out of this one.

Just canít see how we can win it on present form, very disjointed , terrible gameplan , I canít even see a pattern to it at all , itís very free for all stuff, Aido taking that sideline in Navan summed it up for me .  Monaghan are extremely tough and very fit for this time of year , could possibly open us up for a right thrashing but knowing our bucks and their desire to be so mercurial, we will probably win with a headed goal from Robbie Hennelly in the tenth min of injury time .

That was a strange one alright  :(

GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 - 2020
« on: February 13, 2020, 11:47:53 PM »
One of the lads I play a bit of football with is a referee and we had a discussion on it a good while back, his interpretation was that if the blocker's foot made contact with with ball while it was still in contact with the kickers foot it was a stonewall free. However if the ball had left the kickers foot and the blockers foot then made contact with the ball he generally wouldnít whistle it up. Didnít see the incident myself so can't give an opinion on it but just thought Iíd mention one ref's interpretation.

The incident you're describing isn't a foot block AFAIK

GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 - 2020
« on: February 13, 2020, 04:28:33 PM »
I thought it was a definite penalty tbh

General discussion / Re: Things that make you go What the F**k?
« on: February 13, 2020, 04:25:57 PM »
Thanks GOTB

Shocking stuff

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