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Messages - David McKeown

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1
General discussion / Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« on: November 15, 2018, 10:39:36 PM »
I donít understand why the FAI are willing to have a friendly against and swell the coffers of an association whoís publicly stated aim is to try and dissuade Irish players from playing for Ireland and is willing to take Irish players to court to further that aim.

2
General discussion / Re: Parking Ticket Question
« on: November 13, 2018, 10:08:16 PM »
The somewhat more serious issue is these companies who are declaring these car parks to be private land may inadvertently be facilitating what would otherwise be crime. I know for example McDonalds will report anyone they suspect of drink driving and ask them to remain in the space for orders that are taking too long. Unless the police are clever enough to allow the alleged offender to leave the confines of one of these private car parks theyíve committed no crime.

Similarly hit and runs in these car parks used to allow people to be charged with failure to stop/remain/report etc as well as careless driving. Often insurance companies will hold the victim liable if a conviction canít be secured. These private car parking companies would give an offender an absolute defence and leave the victim high and dry.

3
General discussion / Re: Parking Ticket Question
« on: November 13, 2018, 09:35:35 PM »
Got a legit parking ticket and fine couple of months ago on Lisburn Road Belfast from DEpartment for Infrstructure or whatever they are called. Appealed it and said I had run out of fuel at the time with an accompanying invoice from a mechanic I know to say he had repaired the faulty fuel gauge.
Fine was cancelled.

I think the legislation gives you an absolute defence if you are prevent from moving the vehicle by circumstances beyond your control. Iíve had a couple cancelled over the years. The problem I have is they have a policy that says you may only use each acceptable reason once which I think is unlawful.

They wouldnít cancel one for my heavily pregnant wife a year ago when she parked on double yellow lines outside the house we were staying in so that she could run to the bathroom. Iíve been bitter about that one since.

4
Armagh / Re: Armagh Club football & hurling
« on: November 10, 2018, 10:26:39 AM »
I don't think there was an awareness around the County of how potent Rangers were going to be prior to the knockout stages of the Senior Championship. They finished the group match against Madden holding on by their finger nails as Madden came looking an equalizer, having just beaten Silverbridge by a point. This was coming on the back of their absence from the County Finals of 2016 and 2017.

When they beat us by ten points in the quarter-final, many were keen to emphasise how inept our display was (and it was) but having watched their fire power up front that night, I was sure they were going to take the title. As BC has pointed out, they have a relatively young team who will take great confidence from that victory.

For us, this season never ever got going. We had a few long term injuries to key players and a number of other important players lost form. Furthermore, our commitment to the County in terms of personnel meant that we could never get a settled team that would have resembled our Championship 15. However ultimately, the main issue for me was that our Championship success of last year sated the collective appetite and that showed in many performances throughout the year. There was not the raw hunger there. If we are to mount a serious challenge in 2019, there is no doubt that key to that will be the attitude of the players and how much they want to get back to the top.   

Rufus

I spoke to a few men who would have been involved with the Harps over the years and would be at most matches and the general consensus from them was that the team was suffering a bit from same voice syndrome. Donít know if the players felt that way mind but anytime I saw the Harps this year they struck me as a team more or less going through the motions. Do you think either a change of management or a change of approach would be necessary for next year?

5
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club SFC 2018
« on: November 05, 2018, 08:30:42 AM »
The BBC highlights suggest it was a stone wall penalty in the Burren game. Great to see 5 minutes of highlights for each game but just a pity they couldnít stream one live.

6
General discussion / Re: American Sports Thread
« on: October 16, 2018, 08:56:40 AM »
Didnít see the game but was the TD in question not a 75yd TD? Canít imagine them just giving up a TD from that distance, fair enough from 5 yds out maybe. Good luck to anyone chasing Tyreek Hill, not sure I have ever seen a faster player

Yeah Iím not saying they deliberately gave up the touchdown but I do think their scheme was deliberately inviting that sort of play. They had a single safety and no one even tried to go with Hill it seemed. Also there had only been one punt all game so the chances of them stopping the Chiefs were slim.  Brady said in post match interviews he was cheering for the Chiefs to score on their first play so that heíd get the ball back.

7
General discussion / Re: American Sports Thread
« on: October 15, 2018, 09:51:49 PM »
Great game there between the Pats and the Chiefs. I almost think they let the Chiefs score that last touchdown so that Brady could have the ball last. First 43-40 in NFL history.

Think it was the 2012 Super Bowl win when the Giants unintentionally scored a touchdown late on when they were trying to down it at the one yard line. They wanted to use up the clock and kick a field goal for a one point lead so that Brady would have very little time to get down the field. The Patriots, on the other hand, opened up and allow the Giants through. The Giants player tried to stop at the one yard line, but fell over into the end zone to get the touchdown. Fortunately for them, the Giants defense was good enough to hold out for the last minute against Brady and Welker (Gronkowski was injures).

Yeah I remember that well thatís what made me think the very soft coverage may have been deliberate.

8
General discussion / Re: American Sports Thread
« on: October 15, 2018, 04:31:24 AM »
Great game there between the Pats and the Chiefs. I almost think they let the Chiefs score that last touchdown so that Brady could have the ball last. First 43-40 in NFL history.

9
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 14, 2018, 09:29:02 PM »
Would Ashers make a cake with Mr Leeís picture and ďProud to be gayĒ for anyone?

Thatís why I think it would be interesting. Realistically it would be a lot harder to suggest that someone who isnít gay would ever request a cake like that. The Supreme Court judgement to me isnít clear whether this example would be dissociable discrimination.

Sounds more like a cake lads would have done for a gag than anything a gay person would request.

Perhaps itís a poor example. The point Iím trying to make is I wonder now how wide dissociable discrimination is. The Supreme Court accepts it does exist and is outlawed by anti discrimination law but Iím not sure how much protection it affords.
in this case the supreme court came to  a good judgement, not just good but very good. But is it a judgement for the ages? I don't think so. The  dependency that the british legal system puts  on precedence is not appropriate when the law has to get involved with the shifting sands of modern day social interaction.

I foresee an introduction to jurisprudence essay question here. Do what extent do judges make the law?

Iíve no issue with the judgement in this case. I think itís a very difficult issue and Iíve been swayed both ways as the judgements have issued and I can see merit in both sides of the coin.

10
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 12, 2018, 11:01:04 PM »
Would Ashers make a cake with Mr Leeís picture and ďProud to be gayĒ for anyone?

Thatís why I think it would be interesting. Realistically it would be a lot harder to suggest that someone who isnít gay would ever request a cake like that. The Supreme Court judgement to me isnít clear whether this example would be dissociable discrimination.

Sounds more like a cake lads would have done for a gag than anything a gay person would request.

Perhaps itís a poor example. The point Iím trying to make is I wonder now how wide dissociable discrimination is. The Supreme Court accepts it does exist and is outlawed by anti discrimination law but Iím not sure how much protection it affords.

11
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 12, 2018, 10:58:59 PM »
Would Ashers make a cake with Mr Leeís picture and ďProud to be gayĒ for anyone?

Thatís why I think it would be interesting. Realistically it would be a lot harder to suggest that someone who isnít gay would ever request a cake like that. The Supreme Court judgement to me isnít clear whether this example would be dissociable discrimination.
I donít really follow. Someone could send their ma down to order it if they hadnít the time. Ashers would refuse her too.
I donít see how there could ever be a situation whereby we can be certain that only gay people would order a particular cake.

There will always be extreme examples that could be used to argue against dissociable discrimination Which is why I wonder just how wide is discrimination. The first two courts definition was rejected as being too wide but no real guidance was given by the Supreme Court how wide it actually is.

12
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 12, 2018, 10:52:33 PM »
Would Ashers make a cake with Mr Leeís picture and ďProud to be gayĒ for anyone?

Thatís why I think it would be interesting. Realistically it would be a lot harder to suggest that someone who isnít gay would ever request a cake like that. The Supreme Court judgement to me isnít clear whether this example would be dissociable discrimination.
That still falls under  "obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed" as a matter of religious conscience.
Profoundly being the key word.
And it also still falls under this peculiar form of blatant cynical entrapment.

Oh I donít disagree about this example being entrapment.

On your other point the Supreme Court seemed to me to suggest that they considered religious consciousness against a background of discrimination on the basis of political opinion and how the owners own rights to free expression of their genuinely held beliefs could and should be balanced in that context. They seemed to draw a distinction though at least by my reading in so far as they seemed to make no comment on what may have occurred had this to be discrimination based on sexual orientation and there is a clear difference between the two. One is an inherent charatistic of a person whilst the other is acquirred. Not saying it necessarily would have made a difference but I got the impression reading the judgement that it may have but having reached the decision no dissociable discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation it didnít arise in this case and courts try to never make decisions they donít have too.

13
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 12, 2018, 09:16:43 PM »
Would Ashers make a cake with Mr Leeís picture and ďProud to be gayĒ for anyone?

Thatís why I think it would be interesting. Realistically it would be a lot harder to suggest that someone who isnít gay would ever request a cake like that. The Supreme Court judgement to me isnít clear whether this example would be dissociable discrimination.

14
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 12, 2018, 09:04:21 PM »
It stopped well short of saying any business has the right to refuse a bespoke job

Any business DOES have the right to refuse to do a bespoke job! It happens every day across the world.

How the court didn't just say that this is an instance of that I don't know. Instead they've left things vague and already I see a bad interpretation of it being applied in an attempt at reciprocity.



[I'm kinda amazed that you are even suggesting that any customer can demand a business perform a dedicated/bespoke piece of work for them - even if that business has no wish to perform the work.]

Iím not suggesting a customer can demand a business perform a dedicated bespoke piece of work what I am saying and what the Supreme Court have said is that if they are to turn down work they can not do so in such a way as amount to discrimination. For example in one of your earlier examples you mention about making a car at a ludicrously cheap amount. A business could refuse to do that for everyone on the basis of it not being cost effective. They could however not agree to do it for me but refuse to do for someone else on the basis of their skin colour.

Similarly they couldnít refuse to do it because and I just use the example the Supreme Court did, for me but agree to do it for my father on the basis he is eligible for state pension and I am not. That would be dissociable discrimination.

What would have been interesting is whether or not Ashers would have been discriminating against Mr Lee had he asked for a photo of himself and the message ďproud to be gayĒ and Ashers refused that.

15
General discussion / Re: Ashers cake controversy.
« on: October 12, 2018, 08:45:18 PM »
Yes but if you read the judgement the ratio is more clearly the lower court erred on how widely they interpreted dissociable discrimination. On the facts of this case Mr Lee was not discriminated against on the basis of his sexuality or political opinion.

It stopped well short of saying any business has the right to refuse a bespoke job and such an interpretation is not close enough to describe current anti discrimination law.

Could you explain what "dissociable discrimination" means? Thanks in advance

A discrimination claim can only be brought on certain protected characteristics such as age sex, sexual orientation etc. Dissociable discrimination is when the discrimination is not directly on one of those characteristics but is on some other ground whereís its impact is so extreme that it May as well be on one of those characteristics.

The example the Supreme Court gave was when a swimming pool discriminated on the basis of whether the customer was eligible for state pension or not. Being eligible for state pension is not a protected characteristic per se however the impact was such that it de facto amounted to age and sex discrimination on the basis that only over 60 year old women and only over 65 year old men were being discriminated against.

Originally the courts here held that support for gay marriage was dissociable from a persons sexuality and political beliefs on the basis that realistically the only people who would want a cake with a support gay marriage message would be those of certain sexualities and/or political beliefs.

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