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Messages - Redhand Santa

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1
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 01:28:05 PM »
We have got through a number of players from them underage teams and they have helped us stay as a top 5/6 county. But underage success is no guarantee of senior success and we are up against the Dubs who won 4 u21 titles this decade (u21 success is more likely to translate to senior success than minors). They are the county who are combining that underage success with huge money, so it is a struggle for us to get past them.

it is but at same time it is also worrying that Tyrone haven't won an Ulster Minor since 2012 (u-17 success in 2017 excluded). the longest drought at that level prior to this was between 1978-1988. we just don't seem to be producing the same quality of footballers consistently compared to previous eras.

Agreed. We have definitely slipped back badly at underage level compared to the 2000's. That 2015 u21 success was a one off at that level as we have struggled at the grade consistently this last ten years as well. That was our only year to even win the ulster title. Ulster titles have also dried up at minor level where we have been playing second fiddle to Derry. Certainly a worrying trend for going forward.
We did win the All Ireland U17 in 2017.

It was great to win it but have to take into account there was also an u18 competition this year which some counties (who were going well) focused on at the expenses of the u17.

2
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 11:38:11 AM »
We have got through a number of players from them underage teams and they have helped us stay as a top 5/6 county. But underage success is no guarantee of senior success and we are up against the Dubs who won 4 u21 titles this decade (u21 success is more likely to translate to senior success than minors). They are the county who are combining that underage success with huge money, so it is a struggle for us to get past them.

it is but at same time it is also worrying that Tyrone haven't won an Ulster Minor since 2012 (u-17 success in 2017 excluded). the longest drought at that level prior to this was between 1978-1988. we just don't seem to be producing the same quality of footballers consistently compared to previous eras.

Agreed. We have definitely slipped back badly at underage level compared to the 2000's. That 2015 u21 success was a one off at that level as we have struggled at the grade consistently this last ten years as well. That was our only year to even win the ulster title. Ulster titles have also dried up at minor level where we have been playing second fiddle to Derry. Certainly a worrying trend for going forward.

3
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 10:44:26 AM »
Imagine when he leaves and we drop down to the same level as some of the other previously successful counties like Down, Armagh or Derry have done in recent years. There will be some yapping done then, god help who is in charge at that point. The issue is we hit a golden generation of players in the 2000s and combined it with a great manager leading to unbelievable success for a county like Tyrone. This has lead to supporters being spoilt.

We have still did well in recent years and 25 plus counties would love to be in our position. It's easy when a county is doing less well after such success to have someone to blame like the manager. It's an easy excuse for not supporting the team when they aren't winning All Irelands.

My God that is some rant. I have nothing personal against Mickey and I understand we got to an All Ireland last year but let's face facts our run to the final last year was hardly laced with outstanding victories against top opposition. We were beat 3 times in the champions in one year....for what it's worth it is my opinion that the time for change was a few years ago and we have got ourselves into a position that the management of our county has become a full time post in which we have allowed people to become dependent  on to allow them to earn a living and it becomes very difficult for either party to let go. It is only an opinion don't shoot me for it.

We did indeed lose 3 times in the championship. Twice of them were against Dublin who are possibly the greatest teams ever and resources we could only dream about. The other against Monaghan was reversed later in the championship in a crucial knockout game.

I don't see a change in management improving our fortunes, I'd imagine it'll have the opposite effect. It's get a few more behind the team in the short term but once results start going badly they'll turn on the new management fairly quickly.

I personally thought our victory in Donegal last year was our best championship win in ten years. Away to the ulster champions with an excellent home record and 3 or 4 points down at half time, it was a great result. It's probably unfair on Monaghan that people don't respect the victory against them enough in the semi final.

I think anyone who looks objectively at the Tyrone players and resources available and compares it to what we have done in the last 3/4 years would say the management is doing a good job at getting the best out of the team. Is it enough to win the All Ireland? Probably not unless we find something extra, but I'm not sure that's down to management.

You've mentioned limited resources a few times now. 4 different groups have won all Ireland titles in 04, 08, 10 and 15. A lot of counties would be fairly pleased with those limited resources. Or maybe Mickey was responsible for those wins too

The limited resources I referred to was spending on the team compared to the other top counties like Mayo and Dublin. They have huge backroom teams and money being spent on the team.

We have got through a number of players from them underage teams and they have helped us stay as a top 5/6 county. But underage success is no guarantee of senior success and we are up against the Dubs who won 4 u21 titles this decade (u21 success is more likely to translate to senior success than minors). They are the county who are combining that underage success with huge money, so it is a struggle for us to get past them.

4
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 10:25:21 AM »
Imagine when he leaves and we drop down to the same level as some of the other previously successful counties like Down, Armagh or Derry have done in recent years. There will be some yapping done then, god help who is in charge at that point. The issue is we hit a golden generation of players in the 2000s and combined it with a great manager leading to unbelievable success for a county like Tyrone. This has lead to supporters being spoilt.

We have still did well in recent years and 25 plus counties would love to be in our position. It's easy when a county is doing less well after such success to have someone to blame like the manager. It's an easy excuse for not supporting the team when they aren't winning All Irelands.

My God that is some rant. I have nothing personal against Mickey and I understand we got to an All Ireland last year but let's face facts our run to the final last year was hardly laced with outstanding victories against top opposition. We were beat 3 times in the champions in one year....for what it's worth it is my opinion that the time for change was a few years ago and we have got ourselves into a position that the management of our county has become a full time post in which we have allowed people to become dependent  on to allow them to earn a living and it becomes very difficult for either party to let go. It is only an opinion don't shoot me for it.

We did indeed lose 3 times in the championship. Twice of them were against Dublin who are possibly the greatest teams ever and resources we could only dream about. The other against Monaghan was reversed later in the championship in a crucial knockout game.

I don't see a change in management improving our fortunes, I'd imagine it'll have the opposite effect. It's get a few more behind the team in the short term but once results start going badly they'll turn on the new management fairly quickly.

I personally thought our victory in Donegal last year was our best championship win in ten years. Away to the ulster champions with an excellent home record and 3 or 4 points down at half time, it was a great result. It's probably unfair on Monaghan that people don't respect the victory against them enough in the semi final.

I think anyone who looks objectively at the Tyrone players and resources available and compares it to what we have done in the last 3/4 years would say the management is doing a good job at getting the best out of the team. Is it enough to win the All Ireland? Probably not unless we find something extra, but I'm not sure that's down to management.

5
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 09:50:24 AM »
Imagine when he leaves and we drop down to the same level as some of the other previously successful counties like Down, Armagh or Derry have done in recent years. There will be some yapping done then, god help who is in charge at that point. The issue is we hit a golden generation of players in the 2000s and combined it with a great manager leading to unbelievable success for a county like Tyrone. This has lead to supporters being spoilt.

We have still did well in recent years and 25 plus counties would love to be in our position. It's easy when a county is doing less well after such success to have someone to blame like the manager. It's an easy excuse for not supporting the team when they aren't winning All Irelands.

6
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 09:12:31 AM »
1    Niall Morgan           Éadan na dTorc
2   Michael McKernan   Oileán a’Ghuail
3   Ronan McNamee   Achadh Uí Aráin
4   Hugh Pat McGeary   Cabhán a’Chaortainn
5   Tiernan McCann           Coill an Chlochair
6   Rory Brennan           Trí Leac
7   Peter Harte           Aireagal Chiaráin
8   Brian Kennedy           Doire Lochain
9   Declan McClure           Cluain Eo
10   Matthew Donnelly   Trí Leac
11   Niall Sludden           An Droim Mhór
12   Kieran McGeary           Cabhán a’Chaortainn
13   Darren McCurry           Éadan na dTorc
14   Cathal McShane     E. R. Uí Néill
15   Lee Brennan           Trí Leac
16   Benny Gallen           Achadh Uí Aráin
17   Frank Burns           Cabhán a’Chaortainn
18   Kyle Coney           Ard Bó
19   Conan Grugan           An Ómaigh
20   Conal McCann           Coill an Chlochair
21   Aidan McCrory           Aireagal Chiaráin
22   Ben McDonnell           Aireagal Chiaráin
23   Ciaran McLaughlin   An Ómaigh
24   Conor Meyler           An Ómaigh
25   Ronan O’Neill           An Ómaigh
26   Liam Rafferty           An Gallbhaile
Was Mickey even at the game last Sunday?

Mickey ran out off ideas many years ago. To long in the tooth. Should have been gone years ago but the wise people in the county board bottled it no doubt Mickey will be there next year the year after and on and on.......

We were in an All Ireland final just 6 months ago!! Only the 6th in our 120 year history (4 of them under Harte). In the previous 2 years we won the Ulster title and the year before that we were in the All Ireland semi final.

 I'm not sure what level of success some of you lads are expecting but I think a lot of you overrate the players and particularly the forwards available to us. Never mind the fact that Harte is getting us to All Ireland finals and competing at the top despite the county team expenditure  being the lowest out of the top teams and Tyrone being the 28th worst funded county from Croke Park.

I am critical of some aspects of our play and don't agree with some of Harte's team selections. But as usual some of the judgements on here seem way over the top.

7
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 08, 2019, 08:12:43 AM »
1    Niall Morgan           Éadan na dTorc
2   Michael McKernan   Oileán a’Ghuail
3   Ronan McNamee   Achadh Uí Aráin
4   Hugh Pat McGeary   Cabhán a’Chaortainn
5   Tiernan McCann           Coill an Chlochair
6   Rory Brennan           Trí Leac
7   Peter Harte           Aireagal Chiaráin
8   Brian Kennedy           Doire Lochain
9   Declan McClure           Cluain Eo
10   Matthew Donnelly   Trí Leac
11   Niall Sludden           An Droim Mhór
12   Kieran McGeary           Cabhán a’Chaortainn
13   Darren McCurry           Éadan na dTorc
14   Cathal McShane     E. R. Uí Néill
15   Lee Brennan           Trí Leac
16   Benny Gallen           Achadh Uí Aráin
17   Frank Burns           Cabhán a’Chaortainn
18   Kyle Coney           Ard Bó
19   Conan Grugan           An Ómaigh
20   Conal McCann           Coill an Chlochair
21   Aidan McCrory           Aireagal Chiaráin
22   Ben McDonnell           Aireagal Chiaráin
23   Ciaran McLaughlin   An Ómaigh
24   Conor Meyler           An Ómaigh
25   Ronan O’Neill           An Ómaigh
26   Liam Rafferty           An Gallbhaile
Was Mickey even at the game last Sunday?

I'd imagine there'll be 2 or 3 changes before the throw in so wouldn't read too much into that team. But if you are basing it on last Sunday about 10 players could easily be dropped, I'm not sure we would be able to replace them all.

8
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 07, 2019, 09:05:28 AM »
Disgusting comment but I'd expect nothing less from him. Seems to be a right twisted obsessive individual.

9
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 05, 2019, 08:06:58 AM »
The first week in February and the usual over the top hysterical negative heads are out in full force. I love the fact that someone actually said Harte should be sacked even if we had won the All Ireland last year. I think that sums up the kind of mentality you are up against. It's been a very poor start to the league just like last year. Like last year I will be judging the team in the summer not now.

One thing I will say is Harte is an easy target for our lack of forwards. Given the lack of transfers in the gaa it's not something that can be easy fixed. Some people try to say McCurry and Brennan etc would be world beaters if they didn't have to track back. The two problems with this is neither have proven to be great ball winners yet - they both lack either great strength to win the ball or blistering pace to get away from a man. You certainly cant get away with both of them in the team. The other problem is that in nearly all teams including Dublin have forwards such as Mannion who are tracking back to help out and still athletic enough to get back up and support the attack. So it's not as if Harte is the only manager asking his forwards to do this.

My problem with the setup is that weaknesses with our forward play don't seem to be addressed. Two of my issues with our forward play is as follows:

1) Once we get a score in a game we are letting the opposition out far too easy which means we aren't building up any kind of momentum. I'm not saying we aren't pushing up on the kickout but we aren't doing it with enough men or genuine aggression to win the ball - the players almost seem to be ticking a box by getting up the field but quite happily let their opponent win the ball then drift back to defence. Also we always seem to allow someone free on the kickout. There is no point in marking 5 men and leaving a 6th free and an easy way out for the opposition. You'd nearly be as safe dropping everyone back to cover defence because when the free man gets it we don't have the numbers back.

2) We are kicking more ball into the full forward line and Harte on Sunday was actually fairly effective at winning it (despite being picked out as an easy target by some above). But when we get it in the full forward line there is usually an extra defender or two back. What Dublin and Mayo do better than us is getting support runners coming through to support the forward. Not one or two men but 4 or 5 men bursting through following the kick in to take the return pass. They come at different angles pulling the defence apart. We tend to kick it in and not have the support runners. Or when we choose not to kick it and run from deep instead we aren't direct enough with enough men coming through.

I'm sure both points above aren't helped if we are below some other teams in terms of fitness currently. But they are two areas we should be putting a lot of emphasis on as are scoring has let us down badly at times in big games.

Unlike some who give out about us dropping men back I have no problem with that as long as it's following the ball. Players are fit enough now to go back and help out. But are primary aim when losing the ball should be to win it back as opposed to players drifting back and covering spaces. That oftens lead to a lack of responsibility and the opposition will eventually break you down. At times including Sunday we have abandoned the sweeper but it hasn't been followed up with enough aggression in terms of winning possession which is the key to unsettling the likes of Dublin who dominate when given the ball.

Hopefully we start to see some major improvements from this weekend as the first two performances have been very disappointing and we don't want to be back playing division two football.

10
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: February 01, 2019, 11:14:35 AM »
I'd be surprised if they used either for a division one league game especially with Mayo being well supported. I'd imagine if by any chance Omagh wasn't playable it would go to Armagh (who are playing in Newry on Sunday).

11
GAA Discussion / Re: Attendances
« on: January 30, 2019, 10:42:44 AM »
I was looking at the prices for Armagh's game v Clare on Sunday...£14 if you purchase now but £19 on the day, that's a disgrace. Usually it's on the day that I decide to go as I normally go out cycling on a Sunday morning so depending on the time i get back usually determines if i have time to go to the match but i'll have to pay £19 for a league game...That's too much of a hike, that surely will have an impact on attendances?

Why the need for a difference in price on the day and pre booking?

I'd say its to encourage people to pay in advance meaning:
1) They aren't handling large amounts of cash at the grounds on the day.
2) Cutting down on queues at the ticket booths and in turn meaning less people needed on the day.

12
McNamee not suspended because sending off was in another competition last weekend? Will he see further punishment after striking out after receiving his red card?

No.

Certainly a few surprises in that line up for me, besides no Hampsey and Collie
Rory Brennan must wonder what he has to do for championship football as he gets handed the No 6 jersey for an away league game in Killarney. Surprised no Meyler as well but delighted to see Mulgrew at FF.
Many of us will love that HF line but I'm surprised McClure got the nod at MF beside the giant K

Looking forward to Sat night in Killarney at the Killarney court with a Q&A session with Canavan and Moynihan hosted by Barry McElduff. Should be a good crowd as I believe he has over 100 coming down in 2 buses for it.

Is there still no news on the actual squad for the league or is Mickey keeping it hush for now.

Rory Brennan had forced his way into the team by the end of last year and started the all Ireland final. Hoping he can push on even more this year as has plenty of potential.

McClure had a decent game last week and with Colm and Hampsey ruled out not a huge shock to see him start. Was more surprised at Mulgrew given he didn't play the last few games. Hopefully he can stay injury free and start to deliver on his potential.

13
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: January 25, 2019, 08:13:08 AM »
Gone from last year are Bradley, McNulty and M O'Neill. You'd imagine McHugh and B Burns will go too.  Has anyone else left? That's 5 gone with around 9 called in.
 I assume McCarron, McNabb, and  Loughran are all still injured and will be kept on?   

Out of the players called in I'd have thought Gallen, Rafferty, Coney, McCurry and Kennedy are certs to stay after their performances in the McKenna Cup. Grugan (who was quiet enough in the games that I saw) and Canavan will probably get kept on too. Murnaghan and Gray may miss out but injuries restricted appearances.

I'd have guessed before the McKenna Cup that McDonnell was a cert to go. But to be fair to him he did fairly well in the games that I saw.
Mcdonnell and McCrory both should be dropped. It’s well noted that they may only be on the panel given where they are from.

Did you see McDonnell in the McKenna Cup? I thought he did fairly well at half back. I'm not sure if I'd have McRory on the panel but he's not as bad as some people on here make out.

You're right he isn't as bad as some posters think..... he's worse!

If he played for derrytresk or similar he wouldn't get a look in

McRory has did decent jobs man marking jobs on some decent (but not top) county forwards including for example Mark Poland and Grugan from Armagh. He has a terrific engine on him. I'd have no doubt if you dropped him down to division two or three he would keep most forwards quiet. His obvious problem is that he isn't overly comfortable on the ball and for me isn't aggressive enough in the tackle but he gets an overly hard time from some people.

 I'm not his biggest fan either but some of the stuff said is way over the top. The fact people try to turn it into an anti Errigal things makes me question their motives for the criticism in the first place.

14
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: January 25, 2019, 08:08:15 AM »
Ronan O'Neill?

The bench looks to be named alphabetically (and not necessarily restricted to 26) so O'Neill could still be on it.

Happy enough with that team. I though Rafferty, McClure and Kennedy did enough in the McKenna Cup to earn themselves a go in the league. Mulgrew hasn't had much game time at county level over the last 12 months so will be interesting to see how he gets on. Coney will feel unlucky not to get a go. Could have started him ahead of McShane. But the thing with McShane is he gets through a lot of work and wins a lot of ball. Some people cant see past the 2 or 3 real poor decisions he makes in a game but he is an effective player. Would be better if he could improve his decision making though.

15
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: January 24, 2019, 11:42:07 AM »
Gone from last year are Bradley, McNulty and M O'Neill. You'd imagine McHugh and B Burns will go too.  Has anyone else left? That's 5 gone with around 9 called in.
 I assume McCarron, McNabb, and  Loughran are all still injured and will be kept on?   

Out of the players called in I'd have thought Gallen, Rafferty, Coney, McCurry and Kennedy are certs to stay after their performances in the McKenna Cup. Grugan (who was quiet enough in the games that I saw) and Canavan will probably get kept on too. Murnaghan and Gray may miss out but injuries restricted appearances.

I'd have guessed before the McKenna Cup that McDonnell was a cert to go. But to be fair to him he did fairly well in the games that I saw.
Mcdonnell and McCrory both should be dropped. It’s well noted that they may only be on the panel given where they are from.

Did you see McDonnell in the McKenna Cup? I thought he did fairly well at half back. I'm not sure if I'd have McRory on the panel but he's not as bad as some people on here make out.

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