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I find it bewildering that posters should advocate a 3rd tier rather than focusing on the inequalities of the present 2-tier system.

I pointed out in previous posts that In last 3 years only one of six counties, Westmeath in 2024, advanced to the Sam Maguire Cup based on NFL position. This year both Offaly and Klldare were denied a place in Sam Maguire by Clare (Munster Finalists) and Down (2024 Tailteann Champions).

Should Kildare overcome Limerick tomorrow I hope  they don't find themselves relegated from Division 2 next year thus denying one of next year's Division 3 finalists a place in 2026 Sam Maguire Cup. Kildare would still qualify for Sam Maguire Cup as Tailteann Cup Champions.

Should Limerick win tomorrow and not qualify for NFL Division 3 Final next year then they could still deny a Division 3 finalist a place in 2026 Sam Maguire by qualifying for 2026 Munster Final.

So Sligo and Fermanagh (for example) could top Division 3 next year and gain promotion to Division 2. Yet one or both could be denied a place in Sam Maguire depending on the fortunes of Kildare and Limerick.

Rather than a 3rd Tier what is needed is fair play for current 2nd Tier teams. This year both Kildare and Offaly should have had the opportunity to play in Sam Maguire Cuo and benefitted from exposure to football at that level. Next year Down and Westmeath will play in Division 3 and, given their Sam Maguire experience, will have a marked advantage on the other Division 3 teams.

There are those who will just say that these other teams need to get their act together and others who lazily propose a 3rd tier. What is needed is an equitable system that guarantees Division 3 finalists a place in Sam Maguire Cup. The Provincial Championship route into Sam Maguire is the barrier to fairness.

Anyway good luck to Kildare and Limerick tomorrow – hopefully it will be onwards and upwards for the winners.

Regardless what happens against Cork next it's been some turnaround in a year by Tipperary. Last year they finished bottom in the Munster championship group without a win to their name.

Is it me though but is the standard gone to pot this year?

For me it was a hugely enjoyable game.
Far less of the short handpassing (and throwing) that was Limerick's boring signature play.

Whatever about the quality (it was good enough in my view) it ebbed and flowed with the winner in doubt until the end.

And the goals Tipp created and scored - far more entertaining than watching a team rack up 30 points.

I've always been a great fan of Kilkenny hurling but like last year against Clare they left this one behind.
But a Cork-Tipp final is a first and one to really look forward to.

Bunclody
Dainty Davey
The Unquiet Grave

The thing is I can't see any of the provincial councils being willing to "discredit" the provincial championships by "giving up" more places to the league. League position is obviously fairer compared to the luck of getting a handy provincial draw - if you look back over the various provincial championships over the years a lot of teams ended up getting to the provincial finals by turning in one or two decent performances and there was some years that teams ended up in some of the provincial finals by basically being the least shit of the sides on their side of the draw as opposed to being anywhere close to the being in the top 8 teams in the country.
The harsh reality is that because the provincial councils control such a big chunk of the votes at Congress  that the chances to any switch to favour the national league is remote.

Very true - and you won't find Connacht or Munster posters on this board arguing against a system that can reward them with a place in Sam Maguire Cup for winning one (sometimes easy) game in their province.

And of course Meath should have been in Sam Maguire Cup in 2023 as a top-14 team. Instead the 2022 Tailteann Cup winners Westmeath too their place in Sam Maguire Cup in 2023. Through no fault of their own Meath prevented a Division 3 or 4 team winning that's year's Tailteann Cup.

Meath finished 7th in NFL Division 2 in 2023 but their place in Sam Maguire was taken by Westmeath, winners of Tailteann Cup in 2022.

You might say that Meath were robbed of their place in Sam Maguire in 2023 but of course rules are rules.

In Down's case they have probably underachieved in recent years with the talent at their disposal.

It was on the cards that Mayo would be looking for a new management team.

However the treatment of Kevin McStay does not look at all good to outsiders.

As a player, as a Sunday Game pundit and as a manager of Mayo he had countrywide respect.

All the best to Kevin for the future - though success was elusive he did his county proud.

If Offaly and Kildare stay in Div 2 they are, and if they reach a provincial final they will also, everything is within their own making. I'm not sure the reasoning of why Clare are getting hammered in all this, this was voted in by the counties at congress, if you aint happy put a detailed motion through your club delegates to bring to the county convention for it to be put to congress via the county delegates
 

I'm getting a bit fed up with the replies from Milltown Row2 - he seems unable to take on board others' views.
Nobody is hammering Clare - they have benefited from an unfair system but cannot be blamed.

I'll repeat my point:
In last 3 years only one of six counties, Westmeath in 2024, advanced to the Sam Maguire Cup after gaining promotion from Division 3.
There is no fairness in a system that allows Division 3 and 4 counties that reach Connacht or Munster Finals take the place of the NFL Division 3 winners or runners-up who finished above them in NFL.
The 2 teams promoted from Division 3 should automatically qualify for that year's Sam Maguire Cup.

It was SHAY Fahy, so no 

Are you sure about that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shea_Fahy

His name has always been Shea Fahy in any newspaper article etc. that I have ever read.

Sé is short for Séamus which is Irish for James - that just might have been the origin.

Jimmy Barry Murphy? Paul Murphy Kerry

Slab Murphy, for the jersey sponsor
What nights training btw?

Dr Seán Murphy Kerry
Ollie Murphy Meath
Vinnie Murphy Dublin
Tommy Murphy Laois (aka The Boy Wonder)

[NFL Division 3 Champions and Runners-up]

NFL Division 3 Champions and Runners-up

2022       
Louth         Sam Maguire   
Limerick     Sam Maguire

2023
Cavan           Tailteann    Munster Finalist Clare take Sam Maguire place
Fermanagh    Tailteann    Connacht Finalist Sligo take Sam Maguire place

2024
Westmeath    Sam Maguire
Down            Tailteann    Munster Finalist Clare take Sam Maguire place

2025
Offaly        Tailteann    Munster Finalist Clare take Sam Maguire place
Kildare       Tailteann    2024 Tailteann Champions Down take Sam Maguire place


In 2024 Cavan qualified for Sam Maguire and retained their Sam Maguire status in 2025.

In 2024 Fermanagh were relegated from Division 2 and remained in Tailteann Cup since.

In last 3 years only one of six counties, Westmeath in 2024, advanced to the Sam Maguire Cup based on NFL position.

There is no fairness in a system that allows Division 3 and 4 counties that reach Connacht or Munster Finals take the place of the NFL Division 3 winners or runners-up.

The 2 teams promoted from Division 3 should automatically qualify for that year's Sam Maguire Cup.

"Thems the Rules" and it's the same qualification criteria for next year's system.

Maybe you might explain the rules to Milltown Row2 - he seems to think that Kildare & Offaly will be in Sam next year.
Not necessarily so - if the are both relegated from NFL Div2 then then will play in Tailteann Cup (of course Kildare may qualify for Sam by winning this year's Tailteann Cup.

Take a scenario where Antrim & Laois top Division 3 next year. They too could well be denied a place in 2026 Sam Maguire and then be relegated the following year meaning never getting opportunity to play in Sam Maguire.

The door from TC Cup to Sam Maguire is narrow and the gap in standards is widening all the time.

Down and Westmeath were relegated from Division 2 this year.

Down remained in the Sam Maguire Cup by virtue of the fact that they won the Tailteann Cup last year.
Thus Kildare as beaten Division 3 finalists were denied a place in the Sam Maguire Cup.

Westmeath finishing last in NFL Division 2 were demoted from the Sam Maguire Cup to the Tailteann Cup.

Clare's gained a place in the Sam Maguire Cup by winning one game in the Munster SFC (semi-final v Tipperary).
This denied Offaly, Division 3 Champions, a place in the Sam Maguire Cup.

Are they in Sam next year due to being div 2 teams then?

Must you be vexatious asking a question that you know the answer to or are you just being a smartass ?
I respect people have different views - you don't seem to be able to take that on board.

Both Kildare and Offaly have lost out this year.
They should have been entitled to compete in the Sam Maguire Cup and whatever the outcome both would have benefited.

Both Kildare and Offaly have every reason to be aggrieved that they were denied Sam Maguire Cup football this year.
They were 1st and 2nd in NFL Division 3.

I reckon Kildare would have given a very good account of themselves in Sam Maguire and would have qualified for preliminary quarter-finals at least.

Offaly are a young developing team and they were denied an opportunity of playing against Division 1 and 2 counties.
Again I reckon they could have performed well and would certainly have benefited from the experience.

There may well have been a quite different look to the quarter-finals this weekend.
We might have seen a repeat of that epic 2011 quarter-final where Donegal's Kevin Cassidy's long range point denied Kildare.

The door into the Sam Maguire Cup is narrow for Division 3 and 4 counties. At best the top two in Division 3 qualify but this year neither Kildare nor Offaly got through – their places taken by Down (Tailteann Cup winners 2024) and Clare (Munster Finalists 2025).
 
It is plainly unfair that some Division 3 and 4 counties could qualify for Sam Maguire Cup by winning one game where others would need to win three, e.g. Clare and Longford this year.

In 2022 a line was drawn between Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cups – counties finding themselves in Division 3 and 4 at that point in time were ineligible for Sam Maguire. If one looks back you will find that quite a number of current Sam Maguire counties have spent time in Division 3 and indeed some in Division 4 over the past 20 years.

Some posters here will preach that counties just need to get their act together whilst ignoring the fact that the gap between Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup teams is widening because of inbuilt inequalities in the formats. The fact that Kildare and Offaly were excluded from the Sam Maguire this year is proof of that.

My own county (Laois) spent most of the last 25 years in Division 2. In that time their records against similar middle-tier counties was decent. Indeed their record against the current All-Ireland Champions was excellent – NFL P12 W9 L3,  Championship P4 W2 L2.

The best way forward in my humble opinion would be
1)   Provincial Championships as standalone competitions
2)   Open-draw knockout Sam Maguire Cup – format below
3)   Scrap Tailteann Cup

Sam Maguire Cup
Round 1: Open draw for the 16 Division 3 and Division 4 teams
Round 2: Open draw for 8 Round 1 winners and 8 Division 2 teams
Round 3 (last 16): Open draw for 8 Round 2 winners and 8 Division 1 teams
Round 4 (quarter-finals) : Open draw for Round 3 winners
All-Ireland Semi-Finals : Open draw for Round 4 winners