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As a Dub myself, can i just say, God be with the days when it didn't matter who, when or where we played - we usually expected to win.

If the best players in Dublin are relying on a partisan crowd of 8-11,000 people out in donnycarmey to get them through League games, no wonder we struggle come Champo.

Of course, neither the management nor the team have actually expressed these worries, it is the "fans". Jesus lads, i know it's been a long time since Sam was home, but there's no need to lose your dignity.

We'll play them wherever - and no matter how big the odds against us, we should always be looking to win. When you don't have the silverware, you should still keep your standards.

The boycott is a joke and should be an embarassment to us dubs.

How does a team get to the business end of a season by default?

Dublin in the past four years have only been beaten by 3 All Ireland winners and 1 All ireland finalist. in the process they have won four Leinster titles.

Surely the whole argument about Dublin not beating teams outside their province goes by the wayside when it takes the All Ireland winners, usually, to put them out.

And Meath, while not possessing the same quality Dublin have had over the past 4 years, always raise their game for Dublin.

i can't believe we're having this discussion - and I was amazed at the sunday Game analysts last night - this was a nailed on peno - Canty is moving forward, O'Mahony moves across his path - with his BACK TO THE BALL - therefore, he is in no position to play the ball or tackle the man, Canty moves away from him, and O'Mahony leaves his feet there to trip him. Lads, the best construct you can put on it is that it was a clumsy challenge - byt clumsy challenges still yield penalties. i think it was deliberate and i think it was a brilliant call by the ref. How can any challenge be legitimate if you don't face the man in possession? And to say that Canty ran into him beggars belief. Remember, he is the one with possession and momentum - he is swerving out of O'Mahony's way, and I'd say he had only one destination in mind.

Just another auld fogey here - does anyone remember the late, great Mick Holden and his own thoughts on diving - reefing Barney Rock up off the ground?

In my own playing days showing any kind of weakness or going down was completely disdained - you wouldn't want to give your man any ideas.

O'Mahoney was a joke - and as someone has already said, it may just be our very own Rivaldo moment. The irony is that the fuss this is causing is in part fueled by Kerry's own tradition of "pure football". We might use this moral outrage to maybe get a new rule in specifically dealing with simulation. It's the worst thing in the game at the moment.

The funny thing is, anyone who knows Kerry, knows they were never that pure to begin with.

Also the amount of goading going on yesterday was brutal - I know the Dubs have been castigated for it in the past, but I've thought over the last two seasons it has become widespread. I noticed Kerry lads at it in the semi final last year as well. You'd think that they. of all counties, would have least need of it.

i think there is a bigger discussion in all this - when does the will to win override sportmanship, and should we tolerate it? As a Dub, i have more experience than most with crushing disappointment, but if the hallowed day does come, I'd like to think we'll win with a style of football distinctive to dublin, and with a fair amount of grace. I think the 1995 team embodied the character to overcome disappointment, and win eventually, with an amount of humility - though I'm sure some Tyrone posters will disagree. In our pursuit of evermore professional standards, are the Corinthian ideals of the GAA being lost? I really can't imagine too many of yesterday's players putting their differences aside off the pitch after the result is decided, unlike say Dublin/Meath 1991.

The qualifier system throws counties together again and again - the amount of bitterness this can generate is unreal. I'd hate to think of us nearing a soccer mentality both on and off the pitch. There's a lot to be said for the old championship format - not the least of which was having a summer consisting of only one match gave a bit of perspective to it - leave nothing behind on the day and put away the disappointment afterwards.

Hey lads – just thought I'd bung in my own tuppence worth.

Personally, it was the most disappointing day I've ever had in Croker – and believe you me, there's been a few over 25 years.

The manner of our defeat was the worst thing about it. I don't believe that we are that bad. But a few factors played against us.

The weather doesn't particularly suit our style of play. Alan going off was a big blow. And a lot of our bankers, guys who'll always put it in, no matter how bad things are going, didn't have it on the day. Tactically, we got it wrong on the line. And mentally, again, I'd say we didn't handle the occasion.

But the biggest factor was that we came up against a side that no matter what the tactical system employed, believed in themselves and their ability to execute. Some of the football played was absolutely scintillating – how many times did they work space with a couple of handpasses, followed by a cutting 20 yard foot pass leaving a Tyrone forward with acres in front of him on the half forward line. They were tight in defence, they were fluid in attack and I don't believe many teams could have lived with them.

Puke football is a phrase I have never used about Tyrone. I still rate their 2005 performances as the most complete of any team this decade. I think Dublin's performance still leaves a little bit of a question mark as to whether they are quite at that level yet. I hope that the next two games show that they are.

The Tyrone fans I sat near where passionate and vocal – and magnanimous to us as the game neared its end. I wished them well and that goes to the Tyrone posters on this board as well. But no one I was sitting near was baying for a red for Whelan, just as we weren't going mad for Cavanagh's head. This was a brutal day, poor conditions, with two big, hard men, taking it and dishing it out. That for me is the way football should be played.
Yellows for both seemed about right.

And if it is Ciaran's last game – well perhaps it is a compliment to him that so many outside the county dislike him – for me, he was a footballer who always gave it his all for his county, and gave us far more happy memories than disappointing ones. He's not the first Dublin footballer to end up without an all Ireland medal and won't be the last – but, if he leaves, he'll always be remembered.

Besides, as Ronnie Drew's death, the news of which swept around the stadium, shows it was only a football match that was won and lost and there are more important things in life.

Good luck to Tyrone for the rest of the championship.

Up the Dubs.

When I saw the draw on Sunday, I felt conflicted. Logic dictates that Dublin should win this game – however, Tyrone are a team that routinely defy logic. But if you look a little bit closer at their 2005 achievements, they hold out hope for Dublin.

Tyrone, if I remember correctly, (and I'm sure I'll be pulled up if I don't) trekked through that marathon season without a settled full back or half back line. I think it was the only time in living memory that there was genuine confusion about what defence would take the filed and in what positions they would play. Yet from the quarter finals onwards, the horses for courses policy reaped dividends – stymieing Dublin, out-muscling a muscle-bound Armagh and containing a Kerry forward line of all the talents.

Their midfield was routinely cleaned by their opponents – the debates raged all year about Cavanagh's best position. But by finding a different way to play the position, he rendered the debate irrelevant – he pushed the issue to the wings and half forward line, conceding primary possession, relying on tigerish half backs to compete the breaks and profiting further up the pitch. Cavanagh was the mid fielder of 2005 – he didn't catch as much as O'Se or Whelan but he was more effective than both.

Tyrone also had a set of forwards who had yet to prove themselves  (or had yet to receive the credit they deserved for 2003). Canavan's ankle woes and substitution in 2003 created a perception of a team still over-reliant on his waning talents – but Mulligan, O'Neill and McGuigan all stepped to the mark in the All Ireland series. O'Neill especially used the final three games of the season to burnish his reputation – he is a huge loss to Tyrone 08.

So where are the parallels for Dublin? Well, we can't honestly say who will be our starting six defenders – yet we know that amongst the hopefuls are some really top quality man markers, such as David Henry and Paul Griffin and some brilliant ball players – step forward Barry Cahill and Bryan Cullen. Can we emulate Tyrone 05 in relying on our men to be as flexible in their decision making as they must be unflinching in their tackling? The jury remains out – but please consider the following. Despite the high profile losses, the Dublin defence remains, statistically, one of the meanest in the country over the past three years. So is it a case of lies, damned lies and statistics? I hope not.

In midfield, we have the very model of a traditional high fielder in Ciaran Whelan – bit it is Shane Ryan's redefinition of the role that is now key for the Dubs. He is a truly awesome athlete. I firmly believe that no-one in the country can stay with him for power and pace when he advances. But can he transform this into an effective point-scoring and match winning performance against top quality players? Make no mistake – McGinley's career marks him out as versatile, brave and decisive in the key moments – witness 2003. He is not a natural midfielder – but neither is Ryan and whoever comes out on top will have contributed much to a winning performance.

And in the forwards, we have a group of talented young men – some long due to mature properly, being led by a warrior of immense experience. I'm not trying to compare Sherlock to Canavan – the fair comparison is perhaps to Brian McGuigan, and then in natural talent, I still think the Tyrone man wins out. But Sherlock has marked himself as one of the all-time great competitors. Whenever there has been a weak point in his game he has worked on it and improved – point-scoring, strength, tactical awareness – and this constant reinvention is the sign of a ferocious ambition. He also remembers what it takes to win the biggest prize, which may be invaluable.

Tyrone won an All Ireland in 2005 whilst still evolving. The Dublin team must prove they can do the same.

One more thing – slagging players good naturedly is one thing. But suggesting that a man like Shane Ryan, who has given and gives so much, is lacking something in brains, galls me as much as the lazy characterisation of certain ~Tyrone players as cheats must gall red handers on the boards. This has always been a place of certain standards – let's try and keep it clean.

Good luck to all the players involved – but at the end, UP THE DUBS!

Hey guys - I've nothing to do with the TV3 coverage or webpage, but I do know some of the guys working on it, having worked with them on Breaking Ball. They would have been users of this site themselves in seasons past, so I suppose that's why our pages are appearing there.

Hiya lads

Just wanted to throw in my own tuppence worth here for two reasons - 1) I think the debate is a valid one and 2) the way it has been argued (apart from some meltdowns) reminds me of the best days of the auld board.

The one thing a journalist craves more than anything else is a readymade narrative - and Micko's life, more than anyone elses, provides not just one story, but various different threads. He can't be blamed for that.

As for roguery - I spent an hour or so in his company once and he was either a genuine rogue or else acting the part with huge glee. All i know was that, without a camera or microphone within a mile of him, he was twice as entertaining as any interview I've ever seen or read of him.

During his first stint with Kildare, he routinely sent them out with the intention of roughing up the Dubs - becaue he felt the Dubs had bullied them before. It was the same tactic he employed in the Sister Consillio match with Kerry in New York. That Kildare team unfortunately started a scrap with the wrong set of brothers i.e. the Barrs and ended up getting a hiding. But any manager who has employed the players that has has through the stints with Kerry and Kildare, clearly pushes the laws of the game right to the edge - physically.

As for the diving etc - the Laois team that everyone says he should have got more out of was based around two twin towers in the centre of the team with Clancy and Garvan, surrounded by immensely talented but smaller players - Conway, McDonald, Munnelly, Higgins, Kelly etc who beat an awful Dublin team but when confronted with real physicality in Armagh, had no answer. If Micko had the hard men to hand he would have used them - but i don't think there's too much disgrace in tryinq to win your frees if you're as small as some of those Laois lads were, and Francie bearing down on you.

I think as a man manager he is/was brilliant, but i don'tknow if those same qualities would translate in the bigger counties these days. Most of the guys playing for contending counties have had the best of physical and psychological training since they were minors or students - I doubt Micko's homespun philosophies would cut much ice with them. However, in counties where there is tradition of losing, Micko seems to be capable of loosening that mental block - whether that is simply because of his name or because of his actual methods is debatable.

Micko's treatment by the media isn't really his problem - I do think he has been given a free pass at times, but no more so than the Boylans/Morgans/O'Mahoneys/Kernans/Hartes etc. And who would want to have their real persona broadcast or written about? None of us are perfect, far from it, and one of the worst flaws that most of us share, is a willingness to believe the best of ourselves, despite the prevailing evidence.

If the media resorts to cliche with Micko, than it truly is their problem rather than his. And consider this -cliches only become cliches because, at the core, there lies a truth.

Besides, anyone who keeps going as fit as he does into his 70's deserves some kind of a pass - though whether that should be a bus pass or a free pass depends on personal opinion.

Hi lads - just wanted to confirm our schedule - we are doing Div 2 Cork v Monaghan this weekend - coverage starts at 6.30, match throw in 7pm.

Thanks and sorry for any confusion.

We have the option of showing either - and as you can see, we've left five dates TBC so we can make the call nearer the time.

Hi Hoof - our schedule for floodlit league games this spring is as follows

Feb 02 – Donegal v Kerry at Ballybofey at 19:00

Feb 16 – Kerry v Tyrone at Tralee at 19:00

March 01 - Teams to be confirmed

March 15 – Teams to be confirmed

March 29 – Teams to be confirmed

April 5 - Teams to be confirmed

Anyone ever watch "Spaced"?

As far as I'm concerned, it is up there with the best sitcoms ever.

Try this for size

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P7dileY9sY

I seem to remember having a chat with Seanie and telling him I was dying for Tyrone to hammer Armagh just to see what Fearon would say. 

Good aul night. BNM and the Muppet there as well.

Joined in 2001 and haven't been around as much mainly because of work. I lurk a bit when I can. I still don't think the board is as good craic as it was back then - the slide for me came when the OWC boys arrived and we had threads 30 pages long answering questions with questions. I didn't even know there was a quote function before Sammy and the lads came on. To be fair, that kind of invective seems to be gone and it's nice to see some of those posters become valued members.

Actually I have to withdraw from the race - won't be able to with work. Sickener. I hope whoever gets them enjoys it. Good luck with it M4S

I'd love them if they are going spare Mayo4Sam.