Messages

Also in Lurgan, St Pauls and Clan na Gael?

Away in Philadelphia this weekend with work. By any small chance does anyone here know of anywhere in downtown Philly that might be showing the game???

you could try Tir na Og on Arch Street behind the City Hall.  I was there a few months back and they were showing games.

The spirit of 77 would be enough to carry Armagh through to the Super 8s.  Only worry is whether we have the players of the same abilities?

I have been as critical of McGeeney as anyone else but he has brought this squad to a stage where they are reaching a level of maturity that has been stilted by playing Division 3 for too long.  He has been handicapped by the withdrawals of players for whatever reasons and by injuries, although they affect all teams.

They have the potential to beat Roscommon if McGeeney can resist his usual impulse in bigger games to change the style of play to supposedly deal with the opposition threat like in last year's Tyrone match.  Best to build on the current game plan and go for it against Roscommon, we would rather go down attacking than wilt against a reasonable but flaky Roscommon team with some amended defensive system.

Completely agree on that last point.

I hate defensive football but watching a mimic is worse than watching the real thing

The spirit of 77? you surely mean the luck and incompetent ref of 77 Mr. Collins of westmeath, Mickey Freyne had a perfect goal disallowed for square ball, Armagh got a penalty to bring them back into the game and the foul was clearly yards outside the area if it was a foul at all and if you think im doting just read Eugene McGees book "great all-ireland semi finals" and he says everything I have said here and of course we had the very sporting Armagh manager walking across the field and sledgeing the great Dermott Earley before he took a late 45 when the game was level, to the day he died Dermott would not say what O Neill said to him that day, more class than O Neill I would say.

Still sore about that then. Wasn't there a replay and a chance for the Rossies to right all those wrongs?

[Gay left an awful soft goal in that slipped through his hands in 77,]

Was a great team. At the risk of irking our neighbours during their time of sorrow, they were the best team I ever saw never to win an All-Ireland. Three games in particular were thrown away: Armagh in 77, Dublin 79 and of course the All-Ireland in 1980. We were the architects of our own misfortune. Gay left an awful soft goal in that slipped through his hands in 77, Finneran should have started in 79, even then his goal of the year put us in a winning position. If we continued to play the type of football we did in semi-final win over Armagh, we would have beaten Kerry. Even O'Dwyer always maintained that is the one Kerry should have lost. Of course Ros got blamed for the foul fest. Kerry then were whiter than white and ref was too naive to see Spillane faking fouls, or catch their pulling and dragging on our forwards. We are a long time waiting to even get a schniff of Sam since.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but he let a howler in at the Canal goal in the 1980 semi-final - our third goal that day. You're not mixing up the two matches per chance?

If we were lucky in the first game in 1977 - and talk of Mickey Freyne's disallowed goal does bring back some memories in that regard - then we paid for it handsomely in the 1980 semi-final. Armagh were coasting in that match through the aerial dominance of Colm McKinstry who was having the game of his life and Brian Hughes at full forward who was roasting Pat Lindsay. Unfortunately the wheels came off big time - McKink went off injured in the third quarter and Brian Hughes went out to midfield and we totally lost our way and ended up in disarray - think we ended up beat by six points (2-20 to 3-11).

As a footnote, each side wore a change kit and both kits were absolutely class!

Armagh had a white kit with orange trimmings, Rossies had similar gear to Tipperary.  Both Looked well.
1980 is up there with the most painful of memories as a long term Armagh supporter on a level equal to 2000 or 2005. Martin Murphy was sent off also during that implosion.  Before that we were flying, snipping away at the Rossies, seven points up and looking in no danger until that McKinstry injury.  We had Jim Loughran on the bench who was more than capable of coming on as a direct replacement for McKinstry at midfield, but we went with the most baffling  tactical switch-moving Hughes from full forward to midfield, a move that instantly changed the dynamic of the game.  We had a fair share of luck in 1977-but the 1980 team was probably the best we had until the 1999-2006 squad and really should have won that game

 Caoilin Rafferty brought a lot of power and pace to the attack.  Very strong and direct-although not always the most accurate (mind you we had 18 wides last Saturday).  I remember him coming on at half time in a 2014 league game at Navan and changing the whole dynamic of the match.  In 2014 we had Rafferty and Dyas in the half forward line for Championship game against Cavan.  Would have been interesting to see how that would have developed without injuries and work placements coming into effect.

I know the people on the Orchard Fan forum do not like to dwell on who is missing from the panel-and indeed there has to be much credit given to the lads who have stuck around and give it their best.  Jamar Hall in particular could have walked away a long time ago, but has really stuck at it.  Worked his socks off on Saturday.   Nice to heart the applause he received on Saturday when substituted-worked his socks off.
But still you cannot help but think about the added potential to the forwards if both O'Neils, Campbell, E Rafferty were available.  Possibly add to that O'Hanlon. Those guys add serious firepower and options to the Armagh attack-I think Sean Cavanagh said something to that effect on The Sunday Game.  Considering also some of the U-20 guys who may come in next year, then lots of competition for places and Armagh do start to look like a super 8 team.

Unfortunately, we will never see Clarke back in an Armagh jersey again.  Sad that we have never got to see a fully fit Kevin Dyas back again in a playmaker role in the forwards.  Made a brief cameo in the league final but looks like he has recurrence of injury?  One of our most talented footballers

Really should not bite-but what the hell.
Can already see the Tyronies building this into another myth of a game in which they were merrily cantering along to victory only to be flummoxed by the shenanigans of the opposition. 
Armagh with or without the row, were full value for that win and really should have won it within normal time. They had the better players even when considering that one of their main men (O'Neil) did not have one of his best games.  They looked more likely to score goals and indeed, missed at least three excellent goal chances and a number of relatively easy frees. 
Tyrone were perhaps  slightly, just slightly more 'polished' which I think reflected that they together longer as a squad and were more economical with what chances came their way.  They benefited significantly from an excellent free taker but overall did not pose the same power and pace as Armagh.   I thought the ref was very generous in allowing Tyrone enough time to eventually get an equalizer-think 4 minutes of additional time had gone by when 2 minutes were initially indicated. 
Was not at all in Armagh's interest to start a row and I do not believe for a second they went out to start a row.  Certainly, they should not have let themselves contribute to how it escalated.  The intimation here from some posters that this was somehow an attempt by Armagh to rescue something from the game is is nonsense. Both teams behaved badly in the row but the best team won that night on the scoreboard. 

Having been at the game I didn't get the impression that Armagh set out to start a row.  It just escalated from a few Tyrone players starting to taunt, goad and wrestle with their opponents in the last minute of extra time.  Don't understand why they simply did not focus on gaining possession, holding onto the ball and seeing out the last minute of the game.  Sad statement on the state of things that after a magnificent effort from both sides that the focus of a few players at the end was to try and humiliate and taunt their opponents.  Does not at all excuse the bench clearing rush from Armagh and scenes that followed.  But Armagh did not start a row because they thought they were beaten.

As others have pointed out previously-how would any team being kicked out be an actual punishment for Tyrone?
Already beaten.

Pick for me was
Mc Geeney turning the lad over and beating him on pure strength, or Canavan breaking the wee Ozzie thugs nose right in front of me- great sport.


I remember during the first test in 2006, towards the end of the fourth quarter,  McGeeney flattened some Aussie with a bone crunching tackle.  The Aussie was running at full pelt and McGeeney timed his hit perfectly. I think Ireland gathered the loose ball and got a critical score.
Also remember Dermott McNicholl when he got on the ball during the 1980's leaving Brad Hardie for dead. In desperation Hardie (who was a very highly regarded defender in the AFL) tried to grab the back of McNicholl's jersey but did not get even close.

There seems to be three main games in this latest Tyrone-Armagh debate that are subject to revisionism, the 2002 and 2003 finals and the drawn encounter between these two counties in the 2002  Ulster championship.  I attended all three of these games.  What I remember from 2003 was that Tyrone were the far better team on the day and thoroughly deserved their victory. The 'block' was a brilliant piece of defending, no luck involved and if McDonnell had scored, subsequently leading to an Armagh victory, it would have been a steal on the part of the Orchard.
Having said that, in the 2002 drawn Ulster championship game, I thought Armagh were the much more impressive side and looked fairly comfortable until they were mugged by a Sean Cavanagh goal  resulting from a hopeful high ball bringing Tyrone right back in the game.  If Richard Thornton had scored, it also would have been a steal.
I feel sorry for Armagh folk in that their 2002 All-Ireland final victory over Kerry  is consistently  subject to revisionism from Tyrone (and Down) fans.  I thought this was an underappreciated classic game of football. The first 15 minutes or so was nip and tuck, with Armagh showing some exceptional long range point scoring (one score in the first half from Clarke was truly memorable). I think an important turning point was the injury to the big half forward McEntee. Armagh lost their shape for a 10-15 minute period when McEntee left the game and the Kerry half backs were able to swarm forward.  For the second half I thought Kernan made some inspired changes in sending on Tony McEntee and O'Hagan. Armagh got a vice like grip on midfield and forced the Kerry half backs to sit back.  I thought on that day, the Armagh manager got it exactly right. I never thought of this game as a lucky victory for Armagh or as Kerry having 'lost it' but a well deserved and earned victory in a classic game.