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Messages - IolarCoisCuain

#76
General discussion / Hare Coursing
February 08, 2019, 09:50:42 PM
Denis Walsh has a very interesting and thought-provoking piece in today's Times Ireland about a huge sporting event that gets no coverage - coursing. What do people think? An ancient and thrilling rural sport which no townie can ever really understand, because townies' just don't understand the animal world, or a barbarism that still exists when it should have been swallowed by progress long ago, like the church or binary gender identity?




DENIS WALSH
february 8 2019, 12:01am, the times
Hare coursing is ignored, but at least it has not been driven underground

One of the biggest sports events of the Irish winter concluded on Tuesday. You may not have noticed. Media coverage of the National Coursing meeting at Clonmel was more or less confined to the trade papers and one national broadsheet that values its rural audience. An exception to this general shunning by the mainstream media, however, was Tuesday's Six One news on RTÉ which carried a package from Clonmel in its sports segment. The piece touched the usual nerve about the welfare of hares but in tone it was essentially a sports report about a sports event. Take it or leave it.

It is a peculiar phenomenon. The crowds in Clonmel this week were comparable to anything that Leopardstown attracted for their big Christmas fixtures and if your curiosity had carried you through the gates of Powerstown Park you would have witnessed all the sights and sounds of a major race meeting: heaving bars, a thronged betting ring, packed stands, places to eat, a selection of hawkers selling their wares, everything from religious pictures to dog collars. All the fun of the fair.

Walk through the crowd and you would have picked up accents from all over Ireland and the UK, like turning the dial on a radio. Sir Mark Prescott, the famous English horse trainer, was in attendance for the 49th consecutive year. Everything about it appears mainstream: except the action around which all of this revolves.

How could you explain hare coursing to the uninitiated and expect a neutral response? How could you pare it back to its essentials and not make it seem barbaric? In the field the dogs look fierce and predatory and the hare seems hopelessly small and vulnerable. It is easy to understand why people would be repulsed by the spectacle, just as there are people who can't stomach UFC or boxing or the sight of tumbling horses on Grand National day. It is raw and elemental and a matter of taste.

When coursing was debated in the Dáil nearly 26 years ago it was described as "one of the most emotive issues" to come before the house. It was a grand claim given the other affairs of this state. Moving the motion to have hare coursing banned the late Tony Gregory invoked Padraig and Willie Pearse. From the other side of the argument Brian Fitzgerald of Labour returned fire with echoes of Wolfe Tone: "The coursing fields of Ireland," he said, "have brought Catholics, Protestant and Dissenter together."

In that debate Alan Dukes, of Fine Gael, struck the key note. He warned the house against falling into the trap of "an anthropomorphic approach" which, he happily explained, meant "viewing the world of animals through the eyes of human persons." If Deputy Gregory, he continued, would stroll through the woods of Kildare he would see how nature dealt with hares.

To accept coursing requires an unsentimental view of nature and the wild. Among country people you will find it; a twin capacity to love pets and yet be dispassionate about those animals that are bound up with the commerce of farming. Cattle, pigs, sheep, poultry and the like are reared and minded and ultimately slaughtered. Rabbits and crows are shot for interfering with crops; foxes are shot for disturbing the hen house. The cuddly status that these animals might enjoy in children's books or animated movies has very little in common with their day-to-day life in the countryside.

In the wild only about one in 10 hares live long enough to die of old age. Why should coursing add to their suffering, say the protesters? That question was partly addressed by a House of Commons committee report on hare coursing in the early 1990s which concluded that if animals of prey were psychologically damaged "by reason of being chased" its capacity to escape would be impaired and the "species would risk elimination by the process of natural selection."

That argument didn't hold water more than a decade later when the Hunting Act was carried in the House of Commons after taking up 600 hours of parliamentary time. Evidently, it had been an emotive issue in that house too. Hare coursing was outlawed in Northern Ireland in 2010, six years after it was banned in England and Wales and eight years after Scotland had taken the lead on this matter in these islands. Apart from here, Spain and Portugal are the only European countries where the practice is still legal.

Criminalising hare coursing in the UK, though, has not only driven it underground but given it a sinister character. A cursory trawl through UK regional papers reveals a handful of arrests in the last couple of months alone. The Oxford Mail reported that two men were arrested and six dogs were seized in Uffington last weekend. On the previous weekend the Biggleswade Chronicle reported a further two arrests in Great Barford.

Before Christmas the Swindon Advertiser carried a quite stunning story about hare coursing in Wiltshire where police "caught a gang and seized their dogs, phones and vehicles." The report quoted David George from the National Farmers Union: "Hare coursing is a considerable nuisance to farmers in the county as it can cause a lot of damage to property and crops, and violence and intimidation is often involved," he said. "Farmers can find large gangs of coursers descending on their property and keeping them out is a real problem."

A local farmer shared his experience: "They come in the early morning or late evening when nobody is about," he said. "They cut the fences, break the gates and drive across the farmland, causing huge damage, leaving a trail of destruction. It's not just the cost of it but also the mess. There are not enough rural police to deal with it."

"Farmers in the area were reluctant to identify themselves when talking about the issue," the report continued, "for fear of retribution from what one described as hardened criminals."

All of that stuff would be completely alien to the crowd in excess of 10,000 that descended on Clonmel for the Derby and Oaks finals. In Ireland anti-blood sports protestors have often demonstrated peacefully at coursing meetings but it was reported, strangely, that none showed up on Tuesday, the biggest day of the coursing year.

Maybe the whole thing is being managed better than in the past. Muzzling of greyhounds was introduced in Ireland in the 1990s after one chaotic meeting at Clounanna where 50 hares were killed over three days. Coursing people will explain that the kill was never the thing and that the welfare of hares is a primary concern. Why wouldn't it be? Without hares there is no game. By all accounts none were harmed in Clonmel.

According to the Irish Coursing Club 5,044 hares were caught for coursing last season and 5,017 were released back into the wild when the season was over. If you are outraged by the very existence of this sport all you will take from those figures is that 27 hares lost their lives. On this issue there is no middle ground or room for persuasion. Take it or leave it.
#77
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2019, 01:44:12 AM
One question - is the word 'callow' widely used in Ireland? I've seen it more in the last couple of pages of this thread than I've seen / heard the word my entire life!  ;D

It's not widely used. Moysider must have been spending a lot of time down at the library during all this bad weather.
#78
Thanks everyone who replied to this. I am a wiser man now, if not a happier one.

100 years since the sitting of the First Dáil. I wonder if any them would have bothered if they knew we'd end up at this slobbering.
#79
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gp-body-call-for-inquiry-and-describe-17bn-cost-of-childrens-hospital-as-national-scandal-898466.html

Last year we were told this thing would cost €983 million. The current ticker reads €1.7 billion.

How did the cost nearly double in so short a time? Was the original estimate a joke? If it was, why are we continuing with this contractor? If you were getting the kitchen done in your house and the builder told you before Christmas it'd cost ten grand, and then he bowls up and says the cost is now twenty grand, you'd run him.

There's a question to be asked as well about why this is being built in the first place. There will be no new beds - the number of beds in this new 1.7-billion-Euros'-worth of hospital will equal the total number of beds in the existing children's hospitals. Where is the money going? The Phoenix magazine speculated last year that the thing is only being built because the consultants want more, or better, or larger, private consulting rooms so they can make more money. If that's the case, why aren't they run out the same road as the builder?

I'm baffled how this isn't a major story.
#80
GAA Discussion / Re: Similar colours
October 02, 2018, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2018, 01:44:18 PM
This happens all the time and it does my head in.

One of the many things that they've gotten right in American sport is that the away team wears a white kit, and the home team cannot play in white.

As a rule it would only affect maybe a hundred teams in Ireland, and would only take a few years for them to get over it.

Bring it in.

I think you've got that backwards Wobbler. It's changed over the years in the NFL, but in baseball it's always been a case of home whites, away greys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Away_colours
#81
GAA Discussion / Re: Mayo manager resigns - for defo.
October 02, 2018, 09:20:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2018, 05:39:32 PM
Higgins is so replaceable Rochford had to beg him to come back after spending the spring with the hurlers and immediately started. Stop lying through your teeth.

Also the idea that Paddy Durcan is half the defender Colm Boyle was at his best is laughable. Good on the front foot, arm flailing liability when asked to defend.

When would you say Colm Boyle was at his best Syf? What were the particular qualities that cause you to rate him so highly over that span?
#82
GAA Discussion / Re: Mayo manager resigns - for defo.
September 28, 2018, 10:01:10 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on September 28, 2018, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 28, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
The amount of money the bag handlers are going to have to be fronting for a Horan style set-up when the team itself is in need of a near-complete overhaul seems like a form of madness.

I don't often agree with Syf(who does) but the Mayo job is a rebuilding job. Is Horan going to stick around for 3/4 years or is he just in it for 1/2 years to try and get one last push from the current panel and stick with the same older players. That won't work and will set mayo football back years

Sure if he only hung around long enough to put a stop to the five-in-a-row wouldn't it be better than nothing? We're not a people that can afford to be choosy you know.
#83
Quote from: Jim Bob on September 15, 2018, 08:34:05 AM
Talking of Podcasts. What is a decent Podcast app out there for phones. I have one but it's shite. Full of ads and not user friendly.

I like Podcast Republic.
#84
GAA Discussion / Re: Mayo manager resigns - for defo.
September 01, 2018, 11:23:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 01, 2018, 11:20:34 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on September 01, 2018, 11:17:39 PM
Wow , how people don't know the score is surreal

You were the lad telling us McGuiness was a live possibility a few days ago..

You're the man with the inside line Syf - who will the next Mayo manager be?
#85
Quote from: Maroon Manc on August 30, 2018, 06:57:30 PM
Horan always seems to get a free ride from many Mayo fans, he made several big mistakes too mainly the lack of dealing with Donaghy which cost Mayo an All Ireland in 2014. He might have won 4 Connacht titles in a row but he was up against one of the most ill prepared and rudderless Galways teams in a long time whilst Roscommon weren't much better yet still managed to run Mayo close twice during that time and think Sligo weren't too far away in the Connacht Final in either 11 or 12. I'm not knocking him, he's clearly a good manager but he missed huge opportunities when the Dubs were their for the taking in 13 and in 14 when Mayo were a better side than Kerry and had the game won the first day.


You're on the two sides of the road there Manc, old stock.
#86
General discussion / Forgiveness
August 21, 2018, 09:48:02 PM
I'm very impressed by the tolerance shown over on the Mickey Harte RTÉ boycott thread. A lot of people seem to think it's time for Mickey to move on and do interviews with RTÉ. Indignation has a sell-by date, as Syferus pithily put it.

One of the reasons I'm so impressed by this is that I personally am a bitter man, from a line of bitter men. If my family were of noble rather than peasant stock, a lemon would feature prominently on our coat of arms. This ability to forgive and move on has really got home to me how shallow my life is, and my own lack of emotional maturity.

It's got home to me so much that I encourage all those who have been healed by time, whose indignation has passed its sell-by date, who are now mellow and useful members of society again, to share their experience. What was the biggest thing that happened to you and you got over? Your wife having an affair, perhaps? You were annoyed but look, time heals and maybe it was partly due your own selfish neglect of that good woman. Or maybe you lost a packet in the property market at the time of the crash ten years ago but looking back now you think: it's only money. Don't we have our health? Isn't that the most important thing?

Or maybe your daughter was murdered on her honeymoon and someone took the piss out of her on the national airwaves isn't very remorseful at all. You know, whatevs.

Away you go, friends.
#87
GAA Discussion / Re: Should Tyrone speak to RTE
August 20, 2018, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 20, 2018, 05:07:19 PM
If the "sketch" drew reference to your daughter who had been tragically murdered, I'm not sure you would be so understanding or forgiving. I know I wouldn't be.
The cnut should have been given the road.

There is a parallel to be drawn with the Barry McIlduff thing. Although I think this is worse as we know RTE were having a swipe at Harte. McIlduff might have just really fcuked up.

Either way, slán.

I've never got the feeling that Mickey wanted Murray given the road. I think he just wanted RTÉ to say sorry like they meant it. What does it say about RTÉ that they couldn't manage that?
#88
Quote from: smelmoth on July 21, 2018, 12:57:33 PM

The fundraiser for Anto Duffy would no doubt have been hosted in a GAA stadium but none with a capacity to even 2000 could be mustered in a city 240% the size of Cork or an urban area 600% the size of Cork? Where was your ire directed then? Or was it silenced by shame?

Fair play to Ulster Rugby. No good reason why GAA could not follow that example

What's this about? Who is / was Anto Duffy?
#89
Quote from: balladmaker on July 15, 2018, 05:40:12 PM
Munster and Connacht football must be a poor standard.  Dublin and Tyrone miles ahead of the rest at this stage.  At least the the Super 8's will expose the weaker teams to a greater extent.

How would you rate the standard of football in Leinster balladmaker?
#90
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 21, 2018, 01:12:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2018, 11:05:12 PM
The men of 1916 established a democracy, where women had the same vote as men. If that is what people wanted then that is a fair outcome of 1916.

What about the women of 1916? The rest of your post displays similar ignorance....I'd advise you have a watch if you can access the documentary. The treatment of women by the Republic of Ireland government since 1922 has been totally scandalous and vastly at odds with the ideals of those brave people who fought in 1916.

I didn't know that the men of '16 were woke as well as everything else. Most of them were shot before women got the vote, so the news that a patriarchal, Church-dominated state would have been a horror to them comes as news to me.

Can you point me to where I can read up on Padraig Pearse's attitude towards the patriarchy, or Thomas Clarke's opinion on LGBTQ issues? Where can I learn about what Eamon Ceannt believed with regard to intersectional feminism, or find out JM Plunkett's views on toxic masculinity? I want to learn.