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I think there has to be an element of good fortune when any team beats Kerry like Cork did in that second half, however I think Cork have the players to compete in midfield and the defenders to mark Donaghy and Cooper. If their forwards, who are good, play to their potential then we have the makings of an upset IMO. Still if you gave me a free bet I'd have to back Kerry.

[Had it been a Northern team they would have been accused of being cynical.]

Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

So this week its because teams are being too defensive thats destroying the game. Last week we were told that it was the decline in kick passing, Spillane even had a article along these lines. Last night on the Sunday Game they highlighted the Kerry goal as how football should be played. The move started in the kerry back line and when the ball ended in the net there was not one foot pass. In the last minute of the Cork v Kildare game Cork must have had every player in the square defending their lead no mention of them being negative. Had it been a Northern team they would have been accused of being cynical.         

No they wouldn't but I will accuse you of misplaced paranoia.

I think there'll be a much bigger crowd for this game, I reckon both teams will bring bigger support than previous years and it should be a much better game. You'd have to fancy Kerry but I think Cork have the players to put it up to Kerry.

Like I said before Puckoon every 'tactic' has its advantages and disadvantages and I think all lovers of football want to see quality games where both attacking and defensive skills are in evidence. Those games are rare enough in any era (or any sport) but I hope the next few years might see a better balance between the intensity of the Tyrone/Armagh game and the direct football of Galway/Kerry. If we do I think many more people will begin to appreciate the brilliance of the game of football and that can only be a good thing.

They were both injured and this should be remembered when considering Corks chances against Kerry.

15 V 15 is completely naive football. You have even highlighted in your comment after this one that yes you will turn the ball over, and yes you will probably concede more. Why would any team be prepared to turn the ball over, or concede more - just because their team have the potential to score more? Thats naivete of the highest order. Why would a team with any desire to win concede an inch to their opposition by handing them possession??? It simply makes no sense.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion Puckoon but the object of championship football is to win games so if you go out with the objective of scoring as much as you can and depending on your defenders to defend are you saying you will always lose? You point out that I conceded you will probably concede more playing 15 V 15 but if you get bodies behind the ball you surely appreciate that you'll probably score less so I could argue that that is a foolish tactic as you are limiting your scoring potential in the hope of conceding less.

Anyway all teams funnel players back now (if for no other reason because defenders attack more) but I always believed you should keep your best scoring forwards close to the goal and get the ball into them as fast and often as possible. And if you have a large number of scoring forwards you should have most of them (if not all) on the pitch. Anyway this year could be the third year in a row that Ulster haven't a team in the semis and teams like WM, Fermanagh, Limerick, Kildare have all fallen by the wayside. While Kerry, Wexford and Cork are in the semi finals, all teams who play fast and often 50/50 ball into their forwards.

There is a good deal of paranoia amongst the Ulster posters here, I can't speak for anyone else but I really enjoyed both Armagh and Tyrone in their pomp. Both teams brought a ferocious intensity to their games and were wonderful to watch, however they did employ overly defensive tactics at times and Tyrone in particular never needed to do so IMO. And these tactics have been taken on and developed to the nth degree by teams of far less talent which led us to last weekends woeful display of football.  The point some Ulster posters seem to be missing is that attacking football played as 15 V 15 isn't necessarily naive football, yes you'll turn over the ball more and yes you'll probably concede more but if you score more then what's the problem, if as some lads are saying it is a results business.

POG I have no problem with WM and Fermanagh employing defensive tactics to win as many championship games as possible, though IMO Fermanagh have the personel to win playing more positively. The point I was making is that it isn't naive to play positive attack football, in fact it is the best way to play football and I think counties like Tyrone (especially), Armagh, Derry, Meath, Donegal, Mayo, Cork and a few more have the players to go toe to toe with anyone and be as successful as they would if they played defensive football.

Everyone was raving about the score taking - no doubt it was an excellent exhibition, but it should be when there isnt a defender within touching distance of the player striking the ball.

That just isn't true on two counts, first there was plenty of pressure on the kickers just not 3 or 4 players surrounding them, secondly we have seen plenty of IC forwards kick wide after wide under no pressure so it isn't that easy.

That's nonsense POG, of course tactics play a part for example Fermanghs 'tactics' might allow them beat a team like Derry but they wouldn't help them beat Kerry. IMO Dublin will beat Tyrone next week regardless of the tactics Tyrone deploy because Dublin are the better team, likewise Kerry would have beaten Galway even if Galway played everybody behind the ball except Micheal Meehan because Kerry are the better team. Anyway Galway deployed 'positive tactics' that could have won the game for them if they had taken their goal chances and I'd like to see more counties employ these tactics rather than WM or Fermanaghs tactics.

I think the point that Indiana is making (and I agree) is that generally the best team of footballers will win the game regardless of the tactics deployed by the respective managers. Tyrone and Armagh didn't win their AI's because of tactics, they won because they had some of the best footballers in the country. It's rubbish to say Galway lost because of naivety, they lost because of 2 missed goal chances, the concession of a few soft frees and some brilliant point taking from Kerry. Cork lost the first half of the Munster final by playing defensively and hammered Kerry in the second by playing attacking route one 15 V 15 football so Kerry can be beaten in a shoot out. Every tactic/style of play has advantages and disadvantages, playing man V man attacking football means you'll probably concede more but you'll also score more. Playing defensive 13 men behind the ball football means you'll concede less but also score less. I know which way I'ds rather see football being played and hopefully the fact that Kerry, Wexford, Cork (looking likely) and Dublin (IMO) will encourage other counties to adopt a more attacking, kicking style of football.

Sorry for trying to make a slightly complex point in a forum more suited to black and white opinons , i'll simplfy

Now now Rosnarun just because some of us don't agree with you doesn't mean we are unable to comprehend your indepth knowledge of football.

1) there is no reason why with proper leadership these players can not win an allireland final.

In fairness you did say you'd simplify things but that is plain simple. How many Mayo forwards would make the Kerry or Dublin teams (and don't just throw out names tell us who you'd drop to make way for them)

2)JOM is not the man to bring that leadership , He took the Job at the wrong time for the wrong reason

You could very well be right, I for one don't know enough about the situation to argue different.

3) the only person who can change the players ans tactics  on the field is the manager, the only person pressure can get rid of is the manager ergo if the Tactics /players are wrong it is perfectly valid to call for the managers removal .

Have you ever managed a team yourself Rosnsrun? Because if you had you'd know how difficult it is to get a team playing a certain way and almost impossible to play different styles unless you have very good and adaptable players which Mayo don't.

I notice no one has come up with Positive reasons for JOM to Stay. surely one of his cult following can come up with something. Theres a Prize for the most Creative answer

Yes they have, I can only speak for myself but JOM is doing ok with the talent available to him and that is all that can be asked of him. Mayo have no Fullback, centre back (though Howley may be good), an ok midfield (and you were missing the main ball winner V Tyrone) and no full forward. And none of the forwards is a really top class score getter like Paddy Bradley/Mattie Ford/Stevie O'Neill/Gooch etc.

Lads I might be coming across as a JOM apologist here, which I'm not, but I just think fellas are criticizing JOM for some things that are byond his control. And in fairness I don't think he was outfoxed by Sammon or Harte, when a team loses you always look back on missed chances, mis-placed passes, dropped balls and tactical 'mistakes' etc. and wonder what could have been. But all these things happened on the winning side too it's just they won so most people forget about it and move on. Mayo came back and nearly pipped Galway having conceded two first half goals while playing into the wind in the second half, had Kilcoyne kicked his easy 2nd half point chance or Mortimor scored that easy first half free it could very well be Galway posters now questioning Sammon while Mayo lads look forward to this weekend. Likewise had Mayo plyers kicked those early second half scores it might be Tyrone lads questioning MH rather than you lads questioning JOM.

In fairness most of you agree that JOM should be given another year but what Mayo fans should now do is knuckle down and support the squad and management ye have until the end of next year at least.

The last time a poster from one of the competing counties strongly tipped their opponents I lost a good few pound. I think Galway lads are being too pessimistic here and I'd give ye a decent chance, anyway I won't follow the advice to go heavy on Kerry this time. I will put them in my accumulator though with a more modest wager.

Ah come on now, Fermanagh started the game very well and if they could kick a score they would have been 4 or 5 points up within the first 10min. Wexford beat Down only beacause Down are poor, not because they were driven, infact Wexford were quite letargic, if they had met Tyrone or Mayo they would have been beaten. Cavan, Antrim and Down are poor to average, Donegal, Derry, Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Monaghan are all decent sides but little better (if at all) than Meath, WM, Laois, Kildare and Wexford and none of them are as good as Dublin. The bottom line is, Ulster's a very competitive province and has a large number of teams that could make the All Ireland semi finals but there aren't any exceptional teams in Ulster and most provinces have a few teams that could win Ulster.

I wouldn't agree that only Dublin could win Ulster, Armagh won it this year by beating Cavan, Down and Fermanagh. If that had been Dublins path they would definately have won it, I'd also say WM, Wexford and Meath would have a very good chance if that had been their path. Ulster have plenty of decent sides but no really good one so I'd say any number of mid ranking teams could win it. Munster and Leinster are the only provinces with a really good team at the moment IMO.

Fair enough to Kildare for beating Fermanagh but if you put things into perspective Fermanagh were always going to find it hard to play this game with the necessary desire and drive after all the work they put into in Ulster.  Deflation is a word that springs to mind.  As for Down, well they were terrible against a Wexford side fired up after that hammering.

Oh right, the Ulster side are deflated but the Leinster side are super motivated after a provincial final defeat. That's called having an opinion and twisting the evidence to suit it.