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I enjoy his music and have been to at least three concerts.But I regard him as an entertainer,not the voice of the oppressed,dispossessed etc.

Oh I see. You "shell out E100" (x3) to "a global brand" + E?? on "all" his albums because you "regard him as an entertainer" not like the other 99.99% who regard him as "the voice of the oppressed, dispossessed etc".

[Exactly.Enjoy the shows,don't let your conscience bother you that you've shelled out 100 euros to a global brand.]

Exactly.Enjoy the shows,don't let your conscience bother you that you've shelled out 100 euros to a global brand.

Genuinely amazed by the amount of people on this thread willing to take vicarious offence on behalf  of a multi millionaire rock star/entertainer who doesn't even know them much less give a fiddlers about them after pocketing the dosh

I thought you had "all" his albums? That would have set you back more than E 100 for a concert ticket?

How's your "conscience on that"?

Or well they all presents? I'd imagine (judging by your posts) that you're really popular and have lots of generous friends.

What a truly stupid ill informed comparison. Stick to Big Tom and Sean Quinn Tony.

What would we give to get to a Final now 
In my innocence I thought we'd keep coming back till we'd eventually win it maybe in 82 or 83 

Me too Rossfan but in fairness to those guys they'd won 4 provincial titles in a row + a league title and a league final appearance and an AI U-21 title & AI U-21 final appearance between 77 & 83. Time wasn't on their side.

Early himself is quoted as saying had they won the AI semi in 09 v the Dubs (which they lost by a point) they would have subsequently lost that final but would have garnered enough experience to win the following (1980) one. Who Knows if he was right but there is some logic to his view. Those players definitely deserved an AI senior medal but in sport you dont always get what you deserve.

Lar.... Iorla.... in response to your posts......

Dermot Early stated that the reason Roscommon lost the 1980 final was because "the fear of losing overtook the desire to win". That would also be my take on it. I agree that Ross should have won and that they blew it but I reject the (accepted as gospel by people who've never seen the game) view that the match was lost because we tried to rough up Kerry.

In Paudie, kennelly, Power etc the Kingdom had plenty of hard men of their own. In Spillane they had a brilliant footballer who was also an early exponent of diving to win frees, waste time etc. Roscommon were a fine footballing side who also were powerful physical men. It  was always going to be tough and tight.

I dont think the Roscommon team expected to get such a brilliant start. When they did they didnt show the ruthlessness to push on and continue to put in early ball to the likes of Tony Mac and Jigger. They retreated in to themselves and most of them (including Early who gave away alot of possession) played beneath themselves.

They weren't helped by a ref who gave some very dubious frees to Kerry. Thats where the criticism of Ross supporters was directed not their own team.

Anyway it was the end of a great team in a great era for Roscommon football. Long time ago now with the likes of Early, Paudie, Egan, Kennelly sadly deceased.

matt,

I think it's actually one and the same. I remember that game, and I remember Roscommon being very physical, and losing their own momentum because of it. However, maybe it was cause and effect. Maybe the fear of losing made them start to panic and do things they wouldn't ordinarily, which then manifested itself in an unusually robust style as they tried to right the ship. Whatever, I certainly think the Rossies beat themselves that day, and their approach contributed to that.

Fair enough AZ. I know your view is genuine as always. Agree with 90% of it but obviously still hold the view we were unfairly stereotyped re the rough stuff on the day.

Plus if Dermot Early thought the Rossies were overly physical in their approach to the match he'd have been the first man to admit it. Anyway it's all ancient history now.

Lar.... Iorla.... in response to your posts......

Dermot Early stated that the reason Roscommon lost the 1980 final was because "the fear of losing overtook the desire to win". That would also be my take on it. I agree that Ross should have won and that they blew it but I reject the (accepted as gospel by people who've never seen the game) view that the match was lost because we tried to rough up Kerry.

In Paudie, kennelly, Power etc the Kingdom had plenty of hard men of their own. In Spillane they had a brilliant footballer who was also an early exponent of diving to win frees, waste time etc. Roscommon were a fine footballing side who also were powerful physical men. It  was always going to be tough and tight.

I dont think the Roscommon team expected to get such a brilliant start. When they did they didnt show the ruthlessness to push on and continue to put in early ball to the likes of Tony Mac and Jigger. They retreated in to themselves and most of them (including Early who gave away alot of possession) played beneath themselves.

They weren't helped by a ref who gave some very dubious frees to Kerry. Thats where the criticism of Ross supporters was directed not their own team.

Anyway it was the end of a great team in a great era for Roscommon football. Long time ago now with the likes of Early, Paudie, Egan, Kennelly sadly deceased.

[Decided to ruffle up Kerry and forgot to play football for the closing 15 minutes.]

Yeah, good auld Romantic Pateen. Counties like Donegal used to be favourites of him playing the nice football. Winning a few games and getting hammered in some back door before August. It was the way the game should be played. Good kicking of the ball, high fielding, open defences, High ball into the full forward line and Kerry winning another AI. Ah the good auld days! Ulster was a nice province that beat the sh*t out of each other before giving a sorta challenge match to the Leinster or Munster Champions before the AI Final. The natural order.

Arrah here now. He was calling our stuff 'glamour' football long before a blanket was sighted in the Donnybrook. I heard he got a good clipeen in the '80 AI final and never forgave us.

Don't know if you were old enough to remember, but that was one that got away - Ros 1980. Decided to ruffle up Kerry and forgot to play football for the closing 15 minutes. I was even cheering for Ros that day. That was the end of a great Ros team. They were followed in Connacht by the breakthrough Mayo '81 team and huge drop in standard!

Never let the truth get in the way of a lazy well worn media myth. Up there with "Mayo shit themselves in Croker". Neither of which are true. I was old enough to remember and was there that day.

shlieeven  shleeven where art thou shlieveen (SEAFOID) ?

Do you ever tire of the fact that nobody responds to your sly posts seafoid/Shlieveen?
The Mayo team in your link bear no resemblance to the current one... so what's your point?

Have the Herron chokers not enough problems of their own to be contending with?

What's you obsession with trying to dampen Mayo success and taunt Rossie failure?

I know you being a shlieveen is partly the reason.... but am I missing something? Is there an Israeli conspiracy link to all of this?

Michael Finneran always struck me as a fine footballer. A fine, hefty lump of a lad and a great grafter with skill that belied his size, I expected him to lead the way if Roscommon were to have a chance of winning.
Several times during the early stages when Roscommon were motoring well, he dropped back to act as link man. When he did this for the second time, I knew his cause was hopeless and I suspect he felt the same way.
He got the ball in the clear each time and then meandered off in the general direction of the Mayo goal. As he soloed along, nice and easy, he was looking down at the ball as if counting his steps and then when he ran out of ideas, he stopped and looked around to see if anyone was willing to take a pass. Meanwhile, Mayo players had being laying off and haring back into position to await his next move.
He will have better days in the primrose and blue without a doubt but if you compare his solo runs with those of, say, Keith Higgins, the difference in mental approach is obvious.
He wasn't the worst of the well-known names on the Ross team either.  Cregg, Mannion and Kilbride were very subdued all through and it was left to some of the younger lads to carry the fight to Mayo.
If the entire Brigid's team had been fielded, they'd have put up a better fight.
Ross has been underperforming for years and bad habits are hard to break. Dunno if better training and coaching facilities will cure this malaise either. The problem seems more deep-rooted than that.
Even the arrival of John Evans hasn't brought any change for the better or so it seems.
If they get a good run in the qualifiers, it might help to get them back on track again. I certainly wish them well. If Connacht football is to prosper, we need a more even standard throughout.

Yeah Lar.  Mike Finneran handled alot of ball in the first half but most of it was soloing out of his own backline at a very slow pace. In fairness he didn't give away possession but his lack of pace allowed Mayo loads of time to filter back as you pointed out. He's an honest, hardworking player with a fine fetch of a ball but I don't think he'll ever have much speed.

[If, for example, Tommy Lyons had got the gig we would not be looking at what we are looking at now.]

I'm not sure what the answer is for Roscommon but looking through comments on their own board as well I think many are looking in the wrong places.

Comparing Ros and Mayo at underage is comforting but a waste of time.

What would you prefer? Win a minor or U21 AI or produce a senior player like Aidan O Sé or Michael Murphy who were not underage winners. Well organised underage teams can often beat teams that may have 1 or 2 players that will be serious senior players. Mayo have been slobbering around at underage for years but individuals keep popping up. In 08? we were seconds away from winning a minor AI and only Aidan,  Hennelly and Kevin Keane made senior out of it. Should there have been more if we happened to hold on and win it?

I also think that some of the Roscommon go-to players are overrated. Comparing Cregg to McLoughlin is a joke but Cregg is a good player. Donie Shine is becoming a latter day Derek Duggan and Senan Kilbride - while tecnically very good- looks in poor condition for IC level and maybe as a result does not appear fully clued in. I was impressed by McDermott - again, Keenan, Niall Daly. Smith is a good footballer and Devaney has something but I wouldn t have let him on the pitch with a head like that. ffs, what s that about? Mannion, like his clubman Kilbride, is tecnically all there but again not quite right.

Now I m not sure where I m going with this but Mayo came from nowhere after the 2010 pits. Boyle was ruined and only returned last year and is now a team leader. Parsons was lost. The point is,  this has not been a planned road for Mayo football. If, for example, Tommy Lyons had got the gig we would not be looking at what we are looking at now.

Annoying thing from my point of view is that the 06-10 period was avoidable and we may well have done better last couple of years if we hadn t been so set back in those years. Still, this is a young team, and I for one, am proud of them. I ve never seen a Mayo team so focused and organised. That wouldn t be hard I suppose but it is unusual for likes of me. 97/98 we could have been the best in the country but there was flakiness in some aspects that was very costly.

So it s a good time to be a Mayo man - even if The Grail itself might elude us. That s sport, but this team is working at becoming champions rather than hoping it might happen. Fair play to them for surviving the horror years and the ridicule of the general public. I hope for themselves that they get to the summit.

Great post Moysider. James Horan (aka focussed intelligent management seems to be the x factor in your development). The Donie Shine/Derek Duggan comparison is a close to the bone worry though!

Mayo were superb yesterday and the last day out against Galway. However they are spending insane money that they don't have. As an operation they could be the first county to be wound up.

Big statement.... evidence... back up please?

[As far as Connacht goes anyway, Mayo have moved onto a different level to the rest in terms of professional preparation, strength and conditioning programs, tactical approach to the modern game, etc, etc. The other Connacht counties may think they are doing enough preparation but they are not. It's that simple.]

As far as Connacht goes anyway, Mayo have moved onto a different level to the rest in terms of professional preparation, strength and conditioning programs, tactical approach to the modern game, etc, etc. The other Connacht counties may think they are doing enough preparation but they are not. It's that simple. The game has moved on from 10 or even 5 years ago. Syferus does have a point in saying that Galway or Roscommon lads are well used to beating Mayo at underage (some of the very same players now on the Mayo senior team) so how has such a gap been allowed to develop at senior? Granted this gap won't last forever as every team has a natural life cycle but it's certainly a very large one at present

+1

What sort of time frame are you looking at for these underage lads to become stars of their senior team.

I look at likes of K.Higgans , he was on senior team in 06 when he won u-21 title.

I know it has taken some of them longer to establish themselves as top seniors but not all that much longer, AOS  is 22 and an established top midfielder , some would say one of the finest in the country.

Cillian o Connor was u-21 this year and he also is a recognised top player.

My point is i think the Ross are waiting for something to happen automatically , that might not happen imo for lots of reasons, main one being ye have no players there to blend them with or bring them on.

Really tough times ahead for Roscommon.

Mayo look really really good, quality all over the park, i believe we will win the all  Ireland.

Keith Higgins walked onto a team that was about to contest it's second AI final in three years, CO'C a team going to the AISF and AI final in his first two years. We've been building from pretty much square one post-Maughan, as late as 2011 were were in D4. The 2006 minors are looked to as experienced players but they're only 24 and can't be expected to become veterns just because there's not many older than them.

Basically trying to compare development arcs between counties is a fool's game. What's progress to one county isn't to another.

Patience and planning remain the key words for us.

In fairness you've won one all-ireland minor in 06ish and contested one all-ireland u21 final in 2012

Galway have won 2 all-ireland u21's and aren't next to near anything at senior level.

We've won a rake of underage titles at leinster level at hurling and beaten kilkenny several times and are still miles behind them at senior level.

I'm not convinced there will be any revolution for Roscommon simply from patience. Underage titles can be a curse at times as lads go onto senior panels expecting things to happen. Senior is a massive step up from u21. If you get 3 good seniors from an u21 team you've done well

I agree with you Indiana on most of this post and your previous one. I think there are two or three reasons that I can see for Roscommon's lack of progress at senior level. Two years ago under of O'Donnell they were taking shape having one a Connacht title the previous year and running Mayo to 2 points in the 2011 final plus competing well in Croker with Tyrone for alot of that back door match.

Fergal left then and the team regressed disasterously under the management that followed. Mayo in the meantime kicked on in terms of strenght/conditioning/tactics/big match experience etc. Hence you're correct in saying that we were miles of them in terms of fitness yesterday. I think if O'Donnell had remained there would have been steady significant progress... maybe not enough to win yesterday but certainly enough to be competitive and to have been promoted from division 3.

Which brings me  to my next point.... Mayo clearly have benefited from playing top class teams in their current division 1 league. In terms of skill.... pace.... speed of thought + big game croker experience. This has hardened them alot.

Our successful underage sides are coming on to a senior side that is still stuck (deservedly so) in division 3. That gulf in standard is consequently reflected in their championship performance and development as adult players.

I'm also not convinced winning and constantly competing for an AI club title is particularly helpful to a county team if alot of your best players are not with the county squad for long periods as a result. Senan Kilbride and Karol Mannion yesterday were shadows of the players they were in Croker on Paddys day. Not for a moment taking from the Brigids or Crossmaglens of this world but there is still a massive jump from high level club football to standard county.

Roscommon showed very little heart or leadership yesterday. Perhaps they've become too nice and stylish as footballers. Cregg was the one person I expected who would take the match by the scruff of the neck but he was untypically poor.

I wouldnt write them off. There are some fine footballers on that squad and in the back door (if they dont drop the heads) they are capable of a win or two if they avoid the likes of Tyrone. They are miles off the Mayo's of this world now but so are most sides with the exception of Donegal,  Dublin, Kerry, Cork & Tyrone.

It's  a concern though that underage success is not filtering through. Galway must be the most successful underage county in the last decade and their senior record has been abysmal in the same time period. The step up from minor/u-21 to senior is a much bigger one than it used to be.

Congratulations to Mayo on another ruthless, efficient and professional performance. They never really took the foot of the gas and just like they were in the Galway game there was no show boating or going for glory scores when they were well out of sight.

From a Roscommon point of view we started really well and dominated possession but even then it was ominous looking in terms of how well the Mayo defence dealt with any balls that went in. Even when we were in the lead you just knew we weren't scoring with enough ease to make it count.

The match was over as a contest 10 minutes before half time. We looked from them onwards as if we were going though the motions. There was no heart or fight in Roscommon. They only lost the second half 8-5 and got on alot of ball but never looked purposeful with it.

Mayo haven't just improved in terms of strength and conditioning. Their ability to take scores from play has vastly improved also. They will probably win the Connacht final by a greater margin than today or even the Galway game but you can only beat what's in front of you and they appear very focussed on consistently hitting their own high standards.

Roscommon have no reason to go booking transatlantic flights and throwing in the towel on championship 2013. Mayo are a member of a top 6 club that are miles ahead of the next tier of which we are part of. If the Rossies get the heads down and refocus + are lucky with the back door draw they still can win a match or two and together with today's humiliation learn from the experience.