Messages

[I was also at the Boston Marathon last year]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan. I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

Would love to hear your experience Whitey, some very interesting conspiracy theories RE Boston Bomb backed up with some shocking CCTV evidence. I take them all with a pinch of Salt, however there's something now right about the two brothers, sneaky feeling they were set up in some way.

I don't buy into the conspiracy that the bombing was "staged" as some people would have you believe. What does raise my antenna is the incident in Florida a few weeks later when the FBI agents and MA state trooper were questioning an acquaintance of the bombers about an I solved double murder in Boston. Whatever went down, they ended up shooting the guy dead in the struggle that ensued. How 3 cops couldn't subdue one unarmed guy is highly suspect. (The older brother was also a suspect in that double murder).

Most of the terror convictions since 9/11 have been sting operations where undercover law enformement engage "sympathisers" and then set them up with dummy explosives or some such weapon. Would I be shocked if I found out that they had engaged the older brother and were monitoring him-absolutely not.

I also find it amazing that the Russian intelligence tipped the FBI off about him having attended a training camp but that no one followed up

That entire family are/were a bunch of fvckin scumbags. They came under false pretenses and were given asylum. Then they had everything handed to them at taxpayers expense, while they were busy shoplifting, drug dealing and passing counterfeit currency. The older brother then somehow gotarried to a girl from a wealthy family, had her convert to Islam, then sent her out to work 80 hours a week while he sat on his arse at home

Whitey,
    how many of these jihadi's involved in the 9/11 attacks, Boston or whatever were Palestinian, Afghani or even Iraqi?

none. I dont understand your question and how it realtes to what were specifically discussing here.

(I have already stated on here that I was dead set against the war in Iraq. The 9/11 hijackers were overwhelmingly Saudi. George Bush has a lot of blood on his hands)

[I was also at the Boston Marathon last year]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan. I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

Would love to hear your experience Whitey, some very interesting conspiracy theories RE Boston Bomb backed up with some shocking CCTV evidence. I take them all with a pinch of Salt, however there's something now right about the two brothers, sneaky feeling they were set up in some way.

I don't buy into the conspiracy that the bombing was "staged" as some people would have you believe. What does raise my antenna is the incident in Florida a few weeks later when the FBI agents and MA state trooper were questioning an acquaintance of the bombers about an I solved double murder in Boston. Whatever went down, they ended up shooting the guy dead in the struggle that ensued. How 3 cops couldn't subdue one unarmed guy is highly suspect. (The older brother was also a suspect in that double murder).

Most of the terror convictions since 9/11 have been sting operations where undercover law enformement engage "sympathisers" and then set them up with dummy explosives or some such weapon. Would I be shocked if I found out that they had engaged the older brother and were monitoring him-absolutely not.

I also find it amazing that the Russian intelligence tipped the FBI off about him having attended a training camp but that no one followed up

That entire family are/were a bunch of fvckin scumbags. They came under false pretenses and were given asylum. Then they had everything handed to them at taxpayers expense, while they were busy shoplifting, drug dealing and passing counterfeit currency. The older brother then somehow gotarried to a girl from a wealthy family, had her convert to Islam, then sent her out to work 80 hours a week while he sat on his arse at home

[There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan.  I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

its not as black and white as that surely? zero wrong doing from the majority of the Palestine's killed ie woman and children

To clarify- "both sides" means HAMAS and ISRAEL

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan.  I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

What we have seen unfold before our eyes, and continue to see, is genocide, funded and supported by the USA and the EU.

How they can sit back and continue to give Israel their full support is inhumane in the extreme. Jon snow summed it up well on Monday when he said that if this was going on anywhere else in the world, there would be outrage.

The tentacles of Zionism have spread far and wide and it now controls so many politicians and Governments. They are now powerless to act or condemn Israel for what they are at.

I just saw the news and 695 have now been killed, 4,500 injured, 120,000 people now refugees for a 2nd time on their land, and there is no knowning how many homes have been destroyed.

The media, fed by Israel, tell us how many rockets are launched by the various resistance groups in Gaza, but never tell us how many airstrikes and bombs are fired from land sea and air. The other night they were dropping bombs every 5 seconds. They boasted yesterday about dropping 120 one tonne bombs on one town. They killed a child an hour for the past 24 hours.

Fatah and the PA are toothless and the vast majority of Palestinians in the West Bank want rid of them. Also, the vast majority of Palestinians are fully behind the resistance groups in Gaza fighting the 4th largest army in the world. Hamas have never been stronger, and they are putting up some fight along with the others. 29 of the 31 Israelis killed so far have been occupation soldiers, and they have also captured one and he been held somewhere deep underground no doubt. Israel have killed over 80% civilians, and they are the ones with the best equipment the US taxpayer can give them.

When Israel killed the 4 boys on the beach in front of the worlds media, they sent a message to show that they can kill who they want, when they want, where they want, and get away with it all. 24 hours later they cranked things up and we are where we are now. And still no leader has stood up and condemned them as the bodies pile up. shameless.

Hamas have set out their demands for a ceasefire. Lift the siege, allow travel to the west bank, and release the prisoners that were recently arrested. Every Palestinian is behind those demands, and there is nothing unreasonable about them. Hamas held to the ceasefire since 2012, and it was Israel who broke it hundreds of times. They also killed 70 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza in the past year. And what do people talk about? Rockets, rockets, rockets, and more rockets. Those who slabber on all the time about rockets never back up their claims with any evidence. They just keep on repeating Israeli hasbara.

Israel started this agression. They used the kidnapping of the 3 settlers to ramp up all the hatred and thirst for blood and war. They knew the boys were killed the night they were captured, yet they put a media ban on that fact and spent the next 19 days telling the world that Hamas did it, and they were looking to bring them back alive. They went on a murderous rampage through the West Bank arresting hundreds and raids thousands of homes. They have still to provide one shred of evidence as to who killed the boys. In fact, they are not even mentioned.

Israel picked this fight, and to their surprise, they are getting their fill of it on the ground in Gaza. They are not so brave now when they are on the ground one on one. The Palestinians have said that they either die a fast death now, or surrender and die a slow death. 7 years of a brutal siege, 3 full blown attacks on them that has left over 2,300 dead, 10,000+ injured, and their infastructure destroyed. Plus, they have been abandoned by the western world.

Hamas might not be some peoples cup of tea on here, but to the Palestinians, they are all they have and they are fully behind them. For me, right now they and the various resistance groups have my full support as they fight against the most evil and brutal regime in the world right now.

Israel may have the might, but the Palestinians have right on their side. The occupier never give you your rights, they have to be fought for. Right now that is what the Palestinians are fighting for, and I fully support that fight.

Viva Palestina

GHD......what's your opinion of Sharia Law. That's one of Hamas major initiatives....would you like your wife and daughters to live under such a regime

I would say that to most Palestinians that is a question for further down the line.  the more immediate question is would you like your wife and daughters to live.

Its absolutely relevant to the current discussion.  Hamas is an enemy with no borders, boundaries or morals. The savagery of Islamic Jihad is clear for all to see and needs to be dealt with with a swift and brutal response. The fact that Hamas draw this unto themselves and their civilian population seems to be lost on a lot of the posters on this blog

What we have seen unfold before our eyes, and continue to see, is genocide, funded and supported by the USA and the EU.

How they can sit back and continue to give Israel their full support is inhumane in the extreme. Jon snow summed it up well on Monday when he said that if this was going on anywhere else in the world, there would be outrage.

The tentacles of Zionism have spread far and wide and it now controls so many politicians and Governments. They are now powerless to act or condemn Israel for what they are at.

I just saw the news and 695 have now been killed, 4,500 injured, 120,000 people now refugees for a 2nd time on their land, and there is no knowning how many homes have been destroyed.

The media, fed by Israel, tell us how many rockets are launched by the various resistance groups in Gaza, but never tell us how many airstrikes and bombs are fired from land sea and air. The other night they were dropping bombs every 5 seconds. They boasted yesterday about dropping 120 one tonne bombs on one town. They killed a child an hour for the past 24 hours.

Fatah and the PA are toothless and the vast majority of Palestinians in the West Bank want rid of them. Also, the vast majority of Palestinians are fully behind the resistance groups in Gaza fighting the 4th largest army in the world. Hamas have never been stronger, and they are putting up some fight along with the others. 29 of the 31 Israelis killed so far have been occupation soldiers, and they have also captured one and he been held somewhere deep underground no doubt. Israel have killed over 80% civilians, and they are the ones with the best equipment the US taxpayer can give them.

When Israel killed the 4 boys on the beach in front of the worlds media, they sent a message to show that they can kill who they want, when they want, where they want, and get away with it all. 24 hours later they cranked things up and we are where we are now. And still no leader has stood up and condemned them as the bodies pile up. shameless.

Hamas have set out their demands for a ceasefire. Lift the siege, allow travel to the west bank, and release the prisoners that were recently arrested. Every Palestinian is behind those demands, and there is nothing unreasonable about them. Hamas held to the ceasefire since 2012, and it was Israel who broke it hundreds of times. They also killed 70 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza in the past year. And what do people talk about? Rockets, rockets, rockets, and more rockets. Those who slabber on all the time about rockets never back up their claims with any evidence. They just keep on repeating Israeli hasbara.

Israel started this agression. They used the kidnapping of the 3 settlers to ramp up all the hatred and thirst for blood and war. They knew the boys were killed the night they were captured, yet they put a media ban on that fact and spent the next 19 days telling the world that Hamas did it, and they were looking to bring them back alive. They went on a murderous rampage through the West Bank arresting hundreds and raids thousands of homes. They have still to provide one shred of evidence as to who killed the boys. In fact, they are not even mentioned.

Israel picked this fight, and to their surprise, they are getting their fill of it on the ground in Gaza. They are not so brave now when they are on the ground one on one. The Palestinians have said that they either die a fast death now, or surrender and die a slow death. 7 years of a brutal siege, 3 full blown attacks on them that has left over 2,300 dead, 10,000+ injured, and their infastructure destroyed. Plus, they have been abandoned by the western world.

Hamas might not be some peoples cup of tea on here, but to the Palestinians, they are all they have and they are fully behind them. For me, right now they and the various resistance groups have my full support as they fight against the most evil and brutal regime in the world right now.

Israel may have the might, but the Palestinians have right on their side. The occupier never give you your rights, they have to be fought for. Right now that is what the Palestinians are fighting for, and I fully support that fight.

Viva Palestina

GHD......what's your opinion of Sharia Law. That's one of Hamas major initiatives....would you like your wife and daughters to live under such a regime

The Great Shame:

Not trying to be a d!ck but why would I care what the Marxist dictators of a bunch of 3 rd world countries think

Lads, Palestine has to understand that Hamas is a problem for any reasonable observer.

Look at the pros and cons of the rockets:

Pros:

None that I can see
(I note a few comments here along the lines of 'sure they have to do something' -  but this is completely absurd if it is the only argument. Leadership should be better thought out.)

Cons:

It triggers the slaughter of their own people;
It gives Israel's brutal responses gravitas with Americans which is the only public opinion that really counts;
It can distance the Palestinian cause from people otherwise likely to be on their side;
It easily allows them to be called terrorists/Islamic militants etc - a stunt which works well on the extremely dim;
It complies beautifully with the propaganda of convenient and always flexible 'The War on Terror';

Ask yourselves this question:

Would you fire a rocket knowing that it would achieve nothing and in return everyone in your house and the neighbouring houses were likely to be killed?

Israel's leadership is the problem here and always will be. In a fair world these attacks would be stopped and Netanyahu and co would be up for War Crimes.

But sometimes life is a bitch and you get w*nkers for neighbours.

The Palestinians need smarter leadership and not adolescent reactionaries. To my mind, South Africa's road to getting rid of Apartheid began when Nelson Mandela rejected violence.

Probably the post with the most common sense in the entire thread

To make a comparison that most people will understand.....would we have peace in Ireland today if the 32CSM (and not Sinn Fein) held sway over Republican public perception?

To make a better comparison, would nationalists in the north have any form of parity with their unionist neighbours if it wasn't for the IRA after the civil rights movements had been shot off the streets?

Israel IMO has made it very hard for any moderate Palestinians to gain a foothold in that area.

Possibly and probably.  The civil rights movement in the North was part of a wider worldwide civil rights movement percolating at the time..with the Deep South and France as the Epi-center.

I think that pressure would have been brought to bear from various outside parties (Namely EU and US) that would have accelerated the process.  30 years of war certainly didn't improve the lot of many Catholics

Lads, Palestine has to understand that Hamas is a problem for any reasonable observer.

Look at the pros and cons of the rockets:

Pros:

None that I can see
(I note a few comments here along the lines of 'sure they have to do something' -  but this is completely absurd if it is the only argument. Leadership should be better thought out.)

Cons:

It triggers the slaughter of their own people;
It gives Israel's brutal responses gravitas with Americans which is the only public opinion that really counts;
It can distance the Palestinian cause from people otherwise likely to be on their side;
It easily allows them to be called terrorists/Islamic militants etc - a stunt which works well on the extremely dim;
It complies beautifully with the propaganda of convenient and always flexible 'The War on Terror';

Ask yourselves this question:

Would you fire a rocket knowing that it would achieve nothing and in return everyone in your house and the neighbouring houses were likely to be killed?

Israel's leadership is the problem here and always will be. In a fair world these attacks would be stopped and Netanyahu and co would be up for War Crimes.

But sometimes life is a bitch and you get w*nkers for neighbours.

The Palestinians need smarter leadership and not adolescent reactionaries. To my mind, South Africa's road to getting rid of Apartheid began when Nelson Mandela rejected violence.

Probably the post with the most common sense in the entire thread

To make a comparison that most people will understand.....would we have peace in Ireland today if the 32CSM (and not Sinn Fein) held sway over Republican public perception?

While maintaining support from these same people they're apparently ordering to stand under Israeli bombs?

Good man

Lol-you have no idea who you're dealing with here

My wife's 2 nephews served in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively. They salty with these terrorists first hand. You have no idea as to the depths these monsters will sink

How exactly does that explain how they would be able to maintain support from the very people they are ordering to stand under Israeli bombs?

Gotta get to work-apologies for posting a link and not continuing the dialogue

http://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-civilians-actually-reject-hamas-policies-2014-7

Let me get this straight - this guy went round bombsites, asked the people he found there if they'd like a ceasefire, and was surprised when they said yes?

That article is such a load of bo**ocks its hard to fathom how anyone published it with a straight face.

And it still doesnt answer my question, it actually accentuates how much of a lie your original quote was.

If the people don't support Hamas, then why would they stand under Israeli bombs for them?

Threat of force, right? If this was the case, you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be any amount of evidence for it, from palestinians who had fled, or relatives of someone Hamas killed for not doing their bidding, and I cant imagine that THAT evidence would not be all over the news, can you??

Again this is one side of the story


http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/07/israel-warns-civilians-to-stay-out-of-harms-way-hamas-sends-them-back-in/

While maintaining support from these same people they're apparently ordering to stand under Israeli bombs?

Good man

Lol-you have no idea who you're dealing with here

My wife's 2 nephews served in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively. They salty with these terrorists first hand. You have no idea as to the depths these monsters will sink

How exactly does that explain how they would be able to maintain support from the very people they are ordering to stand under Israeli bombs?

Gotta get to work-apologies for posting a link and not continuing the dialogue

http://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-civilians-actually-reject-hamas-policies-2014-7

While maintaining support from these same people they're apparently ordering to stand under Israeli bombs?

Good man

Lol-you have no idea who you're dealing with here

My wife's 2 nephews served in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively. They salty with these terrorists first hand. You have no idea as to the depths these monsters will sink

Don't you think your view point is a bit skewed then?  No surprise that people in Iraq and Afghanistan try to kill American soldiers.  They weren't exactly handing out sweets over there

Agreed....but neither were the 9/11 hijackers

I was flat out against the Iraq war but felt we were justified in going into Afghanistan


There is no easy solution. Look at what's happening in Syria-estimated 150000 killed in Muslim on Muslim violence-crazy stuff. The Israelis look at that and feel absolutely justified in their use of force

While maintaining support from these same people they're apparently ordering to stand under Israeli bombs?

Good man

Lol-you have no idea who you're dealing with here

My wife's 2 nephews served in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively. They salty with these terrorists first hand. You have no idea as to the depths these monsters will sink

[Not sure if it's true, but an Israeli spokesman was getting grilled on MSNBC this morning. He claimed that they issued an evacuation order for a specific neighborhood, but Hamas then came out and ordered everyone to stay put in order to maximize casualties]

2 quick comments

(1) the argument about the lob sidedness of the casualty count is comets BS. Hamas has fired  over 2000 rockets into Israel. 90% of them have been neutralized by the ingenious missile defense system the Israelis developed. Without that the Israeli count would be much higher.

(2) Not sure if it's true, but an Israeli spokesman was getting grilled on MSNBC this morning. He claimed that they issued an evacuation order for a specific neighborhood, but Hamas then came out and ordered everyone to stay put in order to maximize casualties

Away and cop yourself on. How exactly do you think that conversation would go?

Point is Hamas are not the Legion of Marythey are violent Muslim Jihadists. They rule Gaza thru fear and intimidation and for I I can completely believe they would pull something so despicable

2 quick comments

(1) the argument about the lob sidedness of the casualty count is comets BS. Hamas has fired  over 2000 rockets into Israel. 90% of them have been neutralized by the ingenious missile defense system the Israelis developed. Without that the Israeli count would be much higher.

(2) Not sure if it's true, but an Israeli spokesman was getting grilled on MSNBC this morning. He claimed that they issued an evacuation order for a specific neighborhood, but Hamas then came out and ordered everyone to stay put in order to maximize casualties