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I wouldn't say they were counter productive, they have just been unsuccessful in their intentions. Quinn would be no longer closer to regaining control without them as he has been as they've been carried out.

SQ has stated that he is no longer looking to pursue any interest in the group as a result of the attack to make it clear that he wants no hand in the attacks. That wouldn't have been a decision that SQ would have made easily. So if the idea of the attacks was getting the group back under control then I would say it's counterproductive to why you believe the attacks were carried out. 

Do you believe that?

Yes.

Good for you. Can you see why others don't?

Yes

I wouldn't say they were counter productive, they have just been unsuccessful in their intentions. Quinn would be no longer closer to regaining control without them as he has been as they've been carried out.

SQ has stated that he is no longer looking to pursue any interest in the group as a result of the attack to make it clear that he wants no hand in the attacks. That wouldn't have been a decision that SQ would have made easily. So if the idea of the attacks was getting the group back under control then I would say it's counterproductive to why you believe the attacks were carried out. 

Do you believe that?

Yes.

I wouldn't say they were counter productive, they have just been unsuccessful in their intentions. Quinn would be no longer closer to regaining control without them as he has been as they've been carried out.

SQ has stated that he is no longer looking to pursue any interest in the group as a result of the attack to make it clear that he wants no hand in the attacks. That wouldn't have been a decision that SQ would have made easily. So if the idea of the attacks was getting the group back under control then I would say it's counterproductive to why you believe the attacks were carried out. 

I don't believe him when he states that.

Fair enough.   

I wouldn't say they were counter productive, they have just been unsuccessful in their intentions. Quinn would be no longer closer to regaining control without them as he has been as they've been carried out.

SQ has stated that he is no longer looking to pursue any interest in the group as a result of the attack to make it clear that he wants no hand in the attacks. That wouldn't have been a decision that SQ would have made easily. So if the idea of the attacks was getting the group back under control then I would say it's counterproductive to why you believe the attacks were carried out. 
 

You have a theory. Your entitled to that. Indeed you may even be right about it. But there's no facts to back up what you are very  clearly alluding to. That's what you struggle with.

Sorry SS.  Have to call you on this one.  There are no facts to prove what he is alluding to but there are plenty of facts back it up.

I started out (and may indeed have posted in this thread) as a defender of SQ.  I've done a complete 180 here in the past few months/years and I'd say there's plenty more like me.

He thinks he has an automatic right to re-take ownership of a business he lost through reckless gambling.  He doesn't.

He spat the dummy and walked away when basically presented with an unbelievably generous gift of £1m per year.  This beggars belief.  I'd be fairly sure this money would have come even if he never put his nose in the gate of one of those premises in his life again.

The business would seem to be in safe hands and local employment is being maintained.

SQ needs to suck it up and step away.  He built a great business but got too big for his boots, started dabbling in stuff he hadn't a clue about and got burned.

What are the facts to back it up?

One of the facts is that Kevin Lunny's nose was broken by a disgruntled family member of a Quinn employee who was dismissed by Kevin a week earlier. To suggest Sean Quinn was the 'mastermind' behind that attack is ludicrous. Another fact is that Lunny's bid to buy the businesses was only successful after other businessmen had been intimidated out of buying it.

It's as plausible to suggest that Lunny was responsible for other businesses being intimidated initially as it is to suggest that Sean Quinn is now responsible for the current campaign.  Now I don't believe Kevin Lunny or Quinn were involved directly in the campaign but both for a time didn't do much to publicly object to it.

1. The fact that SQ has made no secret of the fact that he wants/expects to regain control of the business.

2. The fact that one of the main company executives was kidnapped and beaten.

3. The fact that SQ would likely stand to benefit if these executives were to relinquish control of the business.

... I could go on for a LOT longer.

Like I say. None of these facts proves anything. But they all support the theory.

But these attacks were always going to throw light on SQ. And as a result make him uninvestable. Some may dispute it but SQ isn't stupid, anyone would have seen how this would play out. And it certainly wasn't in SQ's favour.

A sustained and relentless campaign of violence and intimidation against QIH directors without any cessation until SQ is back in control of his former business empire does not play out in favour of SQ?

Is that not the exact opposite behind the intention of the attacks, you make the big mistake of believing SQ.

SQ reckoned he was stupid and the banks duped him when he gambled all his money away on Anglo Irish shares, he did so to try and wrangle his way out of his debt. Now he's telling us he's not stupid........

Explain how the Kevin lunney attack has helped SQ regain any control/ ownership in QIH? It hasn't and it was never going to. If you can't accept that, as I mentioned earlier fine. I'll politely disagree. The attack is being linked to SQ either directly or done in his name.  SQ doesn't have the money to buy back the group, He would have had to look for financial backing from investors to do so. Do you think any investor would touch him now? The attack was totally counterproductive to what SQ wanted to do.

The campaign has not succeeded so far as the QIH directors have been steadfast in not letting themselves be intimidated but it is explicitly stated by those carrying out the attacks that they want SQ back in control so the motive of this campaign is for the benefit of the Quinn family, unequivocally.

I have no doubt that you are right. That the attacks are being done in his name (I do believe there's a personal element regarding the Lunneys as well). But I don't believe that he was the ring leader/ paymaster organising the attacks. The attacks were just counter productive to what he wanted to achieve. There is no argument against that. Even if the Directors wanted to sell QIH which investors would take their life in their own hands to invest in SQ now? It just doesn't make sense.

You have a theory. Your entitled to that. Indeed you may even be right about it. But there's no facts to back up what you are very  clearly alluding to. That's what you struggle with.

Sorry SS.  Have to call you on this one.  There are no facts to prove what he is alluding to but there are plenty of facts back it up.

I started out (and may indeed have posted in this thread) as a defender of SQ.  I've done a complete 180 here in the past few months/years and I'd say there's plenty more like me.

He thinks he has an automatic right to re-take ownership of a business he lost through reckless gambling.  He doesn't.

He spat the dummy and walked away when basically presented with an unbelievably generous gift of £1m per year.  This beggars belief.  I'd be fairly sure this money would have come even if he never put his nose in the gate of one of those premises in his life again.

The business would seem to be in safe hands and local employment is being maintained.

SQ needs to suck it up and step away.  He built a great business but got too big for his boots, started dabbling in stuff he hadn't a clue about and got burned.

What are the facts to back it up?

One of the facts is that Kevin Lunny's nose was broken by a disgruntled family member of a Quinn employee who was dismissed by Kevin a week earlier. To suggest Sean Quinn was the 'mastermind' behind that attack is ludicrous. Another fact is that Lunny's bid to buy the businesses was only successful after other businessmen had been intimidated out of buying it.

It's as plausible to suggest that Lunny was responsible for other businesses being intimidated initially as it is to suggest that Sean Quinn is now responsible for the current campaign.  Now I don't believe Kevin Lunny or Quinn were involved directly in the campaign but both for a time didn't do much to publicly object to it.

1. The fact that SQ has made no secret of the fact that he wants/expects to regain control of the business.

2. The fact that one of the main company executives was kidnapped and beaten.

3. The fact that SQ would likely stand to benefit if these executives were to relinquish control of the business.

... I could go on for a LOT longer.

Like I say. None of these facts proves anything. But they all support the theory.

But these attacks were always going to throw light on SQ. And as a result make him uninvestable. Some may dispute it but SQ isn't stupid, anyone would have seen how this would play out. And it certainly wasn't in SQ's favour.

A sustained and relentless campaign of violence and intimidation against QIH directors without any cessation until SQ is back in control of his former business empire does not play out in favour of SQ?

Is that not the exact opposite behind the intention of the attacks, you make the big mistake of believing SQ.

SQ reckoned he was stupid and the banks duped him when he gambled all his money away on Anglo Irish shares, he did so to try and wrangle his way out of his debt. Now he's telling us he's not stupid........

Explain how the Kevin lunney attack has helped SQ regain any control/ ownership in QIH? It hasn't and it was never going to. If you can't accept that, as I mentioned earlier fine. I'll politely disagree. The attack is being linked to SQ either directly or done in his name.  SQ doesn't have the money to buy back the group, He would have had to look for financial backing from investors to do so. Do you think any investor would touch him now? The attack was totally counterproductive to what SQ wanted to do. 

You have a theory. Your entitled to that. Indeed you may even be right about it. But there's no facts to back up what you are very  clearly alluding to. That's what you struggle with.

Sorry SS.  Have to call you on this one.  There are no facts to prove what he is alluding to but there are plenty of facts back it up.

I started out (and may indeed have posted in this thread) as a defender of SQ.  I've done a complete 180 here in the past few months/years and I'd say there's plenty more like me.

He thinks he has an automatic right to re-take ownership of a business he lost through reckless gambling.  He doesn't.

He spat the dummy and walked away when basically presented with an unbelievably generous gift of £1m per year.  This beggars belief.  I'd be fairly sure this money would have come even if he never put his nose in the gate of one of those premises in his life again.

The business would seem to be in safe hands and local employment is being maintained.

SQ needs to suck it up and step away.  He built a great business but got too big for his boots, started dabbling in stuff he hadn't a clue about and got burned.

What are the facts to back it up?

One of the facts is that Kevin Lunny's nose was broken by a disgruntled family member of a Quinn employee who was dismissed by Kevin a week earlier. To suggest Sean Quinn was the 'mastermind' behind that attack is ludicrous. Another fact is that Lunny's bid to buy the businesses was only successful after other businessmen had been intimidated out of buying it.

It's as plausible to suggest that Lunny was responsible for other businesses being intimidated initially as it is to suggest that Sean Quinn is now responsible for the current campaign.  Now I don't believe Kevin Lunny or Quinn were involved directly in the campaign but both for a time didn't do much to publicly object to it.

1. The fact that SQ has made no secret of the fact that he wants/expects to regain control of the business.

2. The fact that one of the main company executives was kidnapped and beaten.

3. The fact that SQ would likely stand to benefit if these executives were to relinquish control of the business.

... I could go on for a LOT longer.

Like I say. None of these facts proves anything. But they all support the theory.

But these attacks were always going to throw light on SQ. And as a result make him uninvestable. Some may dispute it but SQ isn't stupid, anyone would have seen how this would play out. And it certainly wasn't in SQ's favour.

[Parish priest claims 'angry' Sean Quinn confronted him]

What company is nearby to Quinns and "worth" 10 times as much? Are you  talking about Kingspan?

Yes.

By nearby you mean about an hour away. Take a look at a map

It's about 30 minutes from the border.

This extortion gang must not be fully committed to their extortion business or expanding their market.

Or it may be because it is a bunch of thugs for hire who are being hired to carry out these attacks and it has nothing to do with extortion.

You said nearby to Quinn which it's not.

I think you will find it was you who phrased it nearby to Quinns , not I.

And I'm glad that you are agreeing this extortion gang are only fair weather extortionists which is a somewhat self defeating excuse for SQ?

Can you explain why other big businesses near the border region are not being targeted for extortion in a sustained campaign of violence and intimidation as you believe QIH are?

Where did I say any gang was using extortion against any company. I gave my thoughts on what was going on earlier and never mentioned that. So what are you blathering on about now?

Parish priest claims 'angry' Sean Quinn confronted him

THE parish priest of Ballyconnell, Fr Oliver O'Reilly, who in a homily blamed the abduction and attack on Kevin Lunney on a 'Mafia-style group' with its own godfather, has responded to Sean Quinn's first television interview since the attack.

Friday night's interview with Mr Quinn, on Channel 4 on Friday evening heard the former tycoon recall how he was "very nice to the priest" when he visited him at his parochial house, but he told him, "you're wrong, wrong, wrong," in relation to his homily. However, Fr O'Reilly told the Sunday Independent that when Mr Quinn called at his door he was "angry" and was "objecting to the tone of my homily".

The priest said he told Mr Quinn that the person he referred to in the homily "could be anybody".

https://fermanaghherald.com/2019/10/parish-priest-claims-angry-sean-quinn-confronted-him/

Do you know the priest? I do and his brother too. And I can tell you most locals were not too impressed with his "homily", he actually brought in a outsiders to cheer him on. Mad for limelight, hence going talking to newspapers. The truth that many are missing, and not condoning what is going on, is that there is a threat that assets will be sold in the area. This thuggery is a reaction to that and I personally do not believe there is a "godfather" behind it. I believe this is a CIRA group trying to look relevant by latching onto a cause.

You told us you believe that the CIRA are looking to latch on to a cause, that is refuted both by the Gardai and the QIH directors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/kevin-lunney-attack-criminal-gang-has-no-political-ideology-1.4029321

You told us that there is a worry that jobs might go and assets will be sold, a few of us on here have shown that be absolute pie in the sky stuff.

There's only one fairly plausible explanation in terms of why these attacks are taking place and who could possibly be behind them, I think it's quite clear who the people who are the victims of this campaign of violence and intimidation believe is behind it. They don't believe it is extortion, they don't believe it's political, they don't believe it's a vigilante mob of angry locals - they believe it's a gang of thugs who have been hired to carry out these acts by a wealthy benefactor who will stand to gain from the Quinn family regaining ownership.

Where did I mention extortion?

Just confirm I didnt and move on and stop making an even bigger fool of yourself.

I'm not making a fool of myself.

I'm just looking through some of the scenarios and I think it's fair to say some of the excuses trotted out for SQ here are risible and you are heavily involved in that.

The stuff about jobs being at risk and relocation is absolutely mental and makes absolutely no commercial sense yet you put it up as a reason.
The extortion angle falls at the first hurdle, the political angle falls at the first hurdle.

The only theory regarding the motive of the attacks that seems very plausible is that of which the victims of this campaign, believe is what is happening - thugs for hire are being paid by a wealthy benefactor who stands to gain from the Quinn family regaining control over the business.

Yet you don't believe that is the case, you put up pie in the sky theories as a more realistic motive.

WHERE DID I MENTION EXTORTION?

It is a simple question.

Hint - The answer is that I didnt and you were wrong to suggest I did.

Now I am finished in dealing with you, you are clearly incapable of holding any sort of rational discussion so you can fire away posting shite to your hearts content unchallenged in this thread now.

Maybe you should have stated you didn't mention extortion before you got into a debate trying to defend that angle. I put forward the example of Kingspan as a means of pouring cold water on the extortion angle - you got involved in the debate then and now when you realise how silly you looked trying to defend it, you are saying you never mentioned extortion. You tried to defend it as a plausible theory though.

I'm aghast that the only theory you have tried to discount here is the one that is the only seriously plausible one.

If we are talking about rational and logical debate here then you are deluded beyond any realm of sensibility. Remind us how jobs are at risk of QIH relocating all their plant equipment, machinery, skilled labour, commercial location, competitive labour costs, access to their main market, raw materials and so forth to an alternative in what is clearly a company performing very well commercially as is - because that is exactly what you put forward as a motivation for these attacks.

You have a theory. Your entitled to that. Indeed you may even be right about it. But there's no facts to back up what you are very  clearly alluding to. That's what you struggle with.

Nothing to do with quinn. About protection money, or lack of it.

Bull

Shit

Well It makes sense to me Ie When Sean was in charge he paid the ""protection money"" now they dont pay it so these rough man tactics are the result

It's a risible and insulting theory.

Why do the victims of the attacks not think that it is a protection racket? They have been very explicit in saying that the attacks have been carried out by thugs for hire and that there's a moneyman behind them. The protection racket must be a multi million pound per annum gig with Quinn as the campaign is sure as hell costing a lot to run.

Did this extortion gang ever think of targetting Kingspan who have a market value in the billions? They could make a killing if they go with the same campaign as they have conducted against QIH.

You do realise that the KL attack ended any chance of SQ being involved in QIH again. He publicly admitted this. So explain me the logic behind the attack in that case?

I don't believe that at all, Sean Quinn claimed he was a fool who was duped by the banks 10 years ago, now he is claiming he wouldn't have anything to do with these attacks as only a fool would do it and he's not a fool. He's a pathological liar.

The logic behind that attack was to intimidate the QIH management meeting to step down and for potential investors to be warned, make business in its current situation unprofitable and untenable and allow to Quinns to swan in and pick the business up for a song

What SQ publicly proclaims is probably going to be a million miles from the truth and then there is SQJ to take into account......

Fair enough you have your opinion and it's pointless debating. Your not going to change your's and I can't see mine changing unless you bring few facts to the party regarding the attacks. So we're wasting each other's time and it's getting late. Early start tomorrow.

This boyo doesn't deal in facts, this platform is ideal for him to slander folk with no evidence all under the cloak of anonymity, a coward of the highest order.

Slander folk?

What about the QIH directors who have been the subject to this campaign of violence, intimidation and slander?

As usual you have a lot to say but it's all hot air. Why don't you put your name to it rather than hiding behind your username?

The irony, you really are a bit of a ballbag aren't you.

I'm a guy who can express his opinions and articulate why.

You're the guy who goes around blowing off hot air and personally insulting people as you are very insecure about your intellectual ability or lack of.

Ignore thought that was at me.

Only in your world is your opinion something that would need to be excused.

You're the one that's pedalling out excuses because you can't countenance the fact that SQ's actions have been deplorable since he gambled away his business empire.

No one can countenance your thoughts. I'm happy to leave you alone with them.

Only in your world is your opinion something that would need to be excused.

The alternate theory to S. Quinn being the paymaster, is that the persistent attacks against Quinn Industrial since SQ got the boot, are for the purpose of extortion That the extortionists have travelled with all guns blazing down the path of high profile blatant sadistic extortion, attracting the the glare of attention from police, media  and public abhorrance . They must the dumbest extrortionist gang in history.

And perhaps their support for the cause of SQ is because? ....  he paid the extortion on time with a christmass bonus thrown in for good measure?

Or they laundered money through it back when it was creaking and want it back. The Dub is too pig headed to see he has played his hand waaaay to aggressively

So the alternate theory to SQ being the paymaster or SQ indulged the extortionists is that SQ was a moneylaunderer?

Why not?

So the defence of Quinn is that he's a money launderer for criminals?

Your opinion doesn't require a defence I'm afraid to tell you.

Nothing to do with quinn. About protection money, or lack of it.

Bull

Shit

Well It makes sense to me Ie When Sean was in charge he paid the ""protection money"" now they dont pay it so these rough man tactics are the result

It's a risible and insulting theory.

Why do the victims of the attacks not think that it is a protection racket? They have been very explicit in saying that the attacks have been carried out by thugs for hire and that there's a moneyman behind them. The protection racket must be a multi million pound per annum gig with Quinn as the campaign is sure as hell costing a lot to run.

Did this extortion gang ever think of targetting Kingspan who have a market value in the billions? They could make a killing if they go with the same campaign as they have conducted against QIH.

You do realise that the KL attack ended any chance of SQ being involved in QIH again. He publicly admitted this. So explain me the logic behind the attack in that case?

I don't believe that at all, Sean Quinn claimed he was a fool who was duped by the banks 10 years ago, now he is claiming he wouldn't have anything to do with these attacks as only a fool would do it and he's not a fool. He's a pathological liar.

The logic behind that attack was to intimidate the QIH management meeting to step down and for potential investors to be warned, make business in its current situation unprofitable and untenable and allow to Quinns to swan in and pick the business up for a song

What SQ publicly proclaims is probably going to be a million miles from the truth and then there is SQJ to take into account......

Fair enough you have your opinion and it's pointless debating. Your not going to change your's and I can't see mine changing unless you bring few facts to the party regarding the attacks. So we're wasting each other's time and it's getting late. Early start tomorrow.

Nothing to do with quinn. About protection money, or lack of it.

Bull

Shit

Well It makes sense to me Ie When Sean was in charge he paid the ""protection money"" now they dont pay it so these rough man tactics are the result

It's a risible and insulting theory.

Why do the victims of the attacks not think that it is a protection racket? They have been very explicit in saying that the attacks have been carried out by thugs for hire and that there's a moneyman behind them. The protection racket must be a multi million pound per annum gig with Quinn as the campaign is sure as hell costing a lot to run.

Did this extortion gang ever think of targetting Kingspan who have a market value in the billions? They could make a killing if they go with the same campaign as they have conducted against QIH.

You do realise that the KL attack ended any chance of SQ being involved in QIH again. He publicly admitted this. So explain me the logic behind the attack in that case?

[or example, on prime time McCartan was on about how Lunney got his nose broke and he linked it to an ongoing threats but I understand it that the person who done that was aggrieved over a totally different matter and is not linked to anything going on now.]

Marty - You asked a page or two back about what the people in the vicinity think of Sean Quinn and the attacks. 1) I don't think locals believe he was behind the attacks first and foremost. 2) Locals are horrified by the attacks and those that carried them out have little support other than the few loons they always had 3) People think Sean Quinn should be involved in running what they see as his businesses. 4) There is a certain split in what the intentions of the current board is towards the jobs in the area. I think some reasonable people are so horrified by the attacks that they feel that they cannot ask hard questions of the current boards actions or intentions as they risk being seen as being aligned to the attacks.

That's what I understand, outside a survey of facts of course. Now there is also a lot of muck being thrown around on both sides which is making things less than clear.

For example, on prime time McCartan was on about how Lunney got his nose broke and he linked it to an ongoing threats but I understand it that the person who done that was aggrieved over a totally different matter and is not linked to anything going on now.

[/b]

I mentioned this on here that they were separate issues and more personal than to do it the Quinn saga. It's actually the same incident as the throwing cup of tea at LMcC aswell.