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From my perspective, there isn't a lot of difference below U-12 between Antrim and Derry. Quite a few of the Derry clubs have bigger catchment areas and more kids, but talent wise Antrim and Derry are quite similar.

The talent gap widens after this, and this is where the schools come into play.

In my first year, we had two PE classes per week, and these were nearly completely devoted to football. I had Big A as my teacher. so from Sept to Dec I had close to 20 training sessions during class time. The structure was the same, intense focus on picking the ball up fast and cleanly, high catching and foot passing, then a 20-30 min game. In my PE class, we had about 24 boys, and about 6 of us made the Mac Rory panel 5 years later. The biggest benefactors of this training were the local clubs as the rest of my class mates played club football, with Glen, Lavey, Bellaghy, Swatragh, Ballinasreen, Glenullin, Greenlough, Dungiven.

This program developed de facto development squads for these clubs, where base talent was being developed not just the elite. This approach was run until we were in 3rd year.

With this approach, if you had a weak age group in your club, your better players could still develop in line with the best in other clubs.

If Antrim are serious, having committed schools to GAA is vital.

PS, In my first year, St Mary's CBS beat Maghera in the final, and they had about 6 years of appearing in finals / semi finals, and we hated them, they were a big rival due to the hurling and MacRory.

By the time I played MacRory, we routinely beat them by 10-15 points and they didn't even register with us. Something went wrong in the school and they haven't recovered since

For me, a good plan for Antrim
1 - A aligned campaign of official communication from clubs in school catchment areas to school boards and principles demanding better sporting programs for GAA.
2- Advise kids in your club about schools who have good academics and sport programs.
3- Antrim refocus the development squad program away from County development squads to club development program. Divide the clubs into groups and bring them together for development, e.g SW grups could be (Glenavy, Lisburn, Aghagallan) (Aldergrove, TNN, Antrim), (Creggan, Cargin, Moneyglass), (Ahoghill, Portglenone, Ballymena) (Rasharkin, Dunloy, Glenravel, Ballycastle)
Focus on improving clubs in a program, and not just leaving it up to them and lift the entire standard

End of the day, Antrim need to do something different than what we are, because if this Option B is approved, I can't see Antrim playing serious meaningful championship football at the top table again

What is the critical question we are trying to answer? Is it about improving the quality of club standards or is it about making the county teams really competitive again.

If its the county, we need to look at what successful counties are doing and create a competitive plan to challenge them at EVERY level. My mind boggles at the down playing of schools and colleges. It's been the corner stone for a lot of county's strategies for youth development. Every county in Ulster is already driving club standards in a systematic program, if we let the clubs work in isolation, in 10 years time we will still be in the same conversation. And if this Option B gets approved, It will be near impossible to break into the top table going forward

From the colleges point of view, couple of examples,
Tyrone -  St Pat's Dungannon, St Pats Armagh and Omagh's rise in the late 90's early 00's helped feed new young talent for Tyrone's All Irelands run,
Derry  -Maghera's influence on Derry's underage teams in the 80's leading to the All Ireland 1993 (something like 20 of the squad were ex pupils). The Derry hurling breakthrough, 8-10 of the starting line-up was ex Maghera (Slaughneil were a laughing stock at the time and CO McEldowney and the Cassidy's made names for themselves in the Mageenan)
Down - Abbey, Colmans

Hurling
Kilkenny - St Kieran's (the talk about the tradition of the school providing an endless supply of hurlers with All Ireland experience to the county minors for generations)
Clare - St. Flannan's, Ennis

If we want to look at club structures, with the focus on club improvements raising all standards, then you could start looking at Derry - in the past 30 years,
Senior Club All Ireland - 2 All Irelands with a further 3 finalists.
Ulster Senior -Derry clubs have won 10 ulster club titles (6 different clubs),  5 beaten finalists
Ulster Minor Club - In the St Paul completion,  17 wins - (9 different clubs) 5 beaten finalists

Then ask yourself, is the success at underage all down to the clubs themselves, or is there more to it

Take Dunloy hurlers as an example. Do Dunloy think they need to rely on schools or county development squads to make their players better. Not a chance.

They built their own facility, set up own centre of excellence, brought in own top rated S/C practitioners and most of al, treated their kids like kings from they were 6 years of age.

At no stage do they rely on a school or county led initiative to make THEIR players better.

That's the model right there as far as I can see!!

I'd be surprise if Dunloy didn't have a very supportive primary school helping getting the boys hurling and playing football. In belfast there are lots of diffferent sports pushed in schools but hopefully gaelfast will make a difference

Quite a large Dunloy rep in St Louis's recent Mageenan Cup campaigns. And C&P Ballycastle performance in Mageenan's and All Ireland has been emmence.

Lavey hurlers will talk about the importance St Pat's on their 90's team.

From a football point of view, every county in Ulster had a well run vocational and college school program for years. Talk to Fermanagh ones (with a smaller player base than Antrim, but who have consistently outperformed us during the past 50 years) how important St Michael's Enniskillen is to them about the development of their Players.

Any competition that provides the potential to compete against the best in Ulster and possibly Ireland should not be dismissed. So yes, lets get our clubs to improve the foundation, but you also need to look at elite player development and schools is vital in this regards.

Also, my two cents on clubs taking responsibility on improving their standards. I spent 5 years in England and got my Level 1 coaching badge in soccer. What amazed me was the England FA Level one wasn't just a development course that help you set up training sessions and basic coaching techniques, it was focused on the "England DNA".

The EFA established a program about 10 years ago where they set out how they wanted English players developed so that they England consistently produced technically and tactically proficient players. They established England principles in the coaching program.

The whole way through the training they focused on the Engalnd style and have embedded into every club, both grass roots and professional clubs. The young players they are developing now are the first to come through the program.

So it's not good enough that every club ups their game, Antrim need to make sure that every club is upping their game and coaching the kids in a consistent approach to produce players who play with the Antrim DNA

Forget MacRory cups etc lads if we can't get the basics right from U10 on

if the quality in the final yesterday was reflective of the best in Antrim then the future is far from bright

If MAcRory Cup participation became a major target for Antrim, you don't focus on the MAcRory team at 16-18 age groups, it starts in first year in the school. It's a major effort to get a successful MacRory program up and running.

I went to Maghera,  from the very first PE class the teachers set out the ambition and standards that the school expected from the players in regards to football. We had a Maghera style and they started embedding that into the pupils.

The focus was not on winning at every year group, we went to win every match through the younger competitions but it wasn't the be all end all, but the approach and discipline and commitment was the primary focus.

MacRory was serious, at the expectations at this point was a minimum to get to the final, but we were driven to win.

Maghera also worked well with the local clubs, hosted primary school tournaments, teachers scouted local underage games making sure they hadn't missed a kid who is at the school.

It takes a serious effort to be successful

Cargin v st galls - Cargin by 10-12 points
Creggan v St. John's - Creggan by 8-9 points
Aghagallon - st Brigid's - Aghagallon by 3 points
Ld v portglenone. PG1 to cause a bit of a stir and win by 2 points

Cargin v st galls - Cargin by 3 points, closer than people think
Creggan v St. John's - Cant call it, could be a replay. Creggan possibly to edge
Aghagallon - st Brigid's - Aghagallon to progress
Ld v portglenone. Ld to go through just about.

I think St Johns will pip our boys. The fact we haven't played a competitive match is soo long, a couple of injuries to key players, and that the hurlers will be going full speed to win the intermediate this year doe worry me for this years championship. Last year the hurlers were knocked out early and that helped the footballers. hoping I'm wrong but def worried

Don't agree with the senior, intermediate Junior inter county championships.

Going forward, the real barometer for progress is in the leagues, and they will grow in importance with the separation of inter county and club seasons.

County football is representative football. Antrim have both the number of clubs and players to be competitive at the highest level. Need to get the couching sorted, and playing junior will not benefit this.

Need a 20 year view on progression and a focus on leagues. AS soon as Antrim are a mainstay in Div 2, we will be giving Ulster Championships a run

[Welping and the cocking the head back upon contact]

Am I the only one still struggling to get over the fact that a Kerry inter county player butchered a certain goal by walking into the square ahead of the ball arriving and then handling the ball on the ground to push it into an empty net in case the umpires missed the square ball. If a 12 year old did it in a game you would be tearing your hair out. In such a tight match it cost them the game.

O'Brien isn't the cleverest by the looks of it. He should enter the Olympics next time out. His diving antics would make ye sick.

If one player on a team diving makes you sick, how do you think other counties view Tyrone? Welping and the cocking the head back upon contact seems to be an art form perfected by quite a few

You mean like Johnny McGurk in the 90's

So and eye for eye attitude? Hopefully you're not looking after kids teams, where you teach them the rules and respect  of the games and how to play football and hurling.

The referee applies the rules full stop, it's up to the players to abide by them, so to take your attitude if I see someone driving their car without a seat belt on or speeding I can do the same?

As for understanding the game my CV as a player and manager gives me enough experience and insight in playing competitively and managing competitively. Your players should and always play by the rules if they don't then they'll lose sight of what's ahead.

No one goes out to have a bad game, players managers and ref's can have a bad day, the team take it collectively while the ref is generally on his own.

Looked after kids teams for years, and my teams we very well behaved and disciplined. No problem there, but you seem to deflect any comments about how referees have the biggest impact on how a games played onto players and managers fault, and that's a problem. Seems that referees have no self reflection.

The influence on how a games played is 1 Manager, 2 referee, and 3 Managers. But on the pitch and during the game, its 1 Referee, 2 Players, and 3 Manager.

Regarding the seat belt analogy, not applicable as another person not wearing a seat belt doesn't impact me, but if a member of the opposing team hits one of my team and the ref doesn't take action, that does impact my team.

If the referee is consistently allowing players to run 8 steps  before bouncing / soloing a ball, all players will do it. This is natural. If you have a team being over aggressive and not getting punished by the ref, one of your players will get hurt, and the team will have a duty of care to each other to stand up to it. Look at the Mayo Dublin game, the ref and officials missed about 4 red card offences, Mayo got more aggressive after,

Afghanistan is all on Joe? Close the thread or topic on that. I thought Irish politics was blinkered

the disaster of a withdrawal is all on him, well that's what he says

Did he say it is all on him or that he wouldnt shrink from his share of responsibility?

he said the buck stops with him . Then blamed everyone he could think of .
What sane president leaves thousands of us citizens behind enemy lines and has to ask a terrorist organization to help them .

So should they stay? Lets have more bloodshed, more carnage more occupation. I don't know what you want but either way this is a shit storm no matter what call is made and by who. I love the way the brits are blaming the US for leaving, and the minute they said they were the Afghan security burnt their uniforms and headed back to their villages. More backbone in a jellyfish

I'm a Joe supporter, voted for him, but the execution of the withdrawal is all on him.

FFS, there is a fighting season in Afghanistan, and a winter season when nothing happens. Why not delay the withdrawal till the winter, then take 6 months to make sure everyone is out. The Democrats are scoring own goals, first the border, when they were not prepared for the surge, and now the withdrawal, where they were clearly not prepared. They can't have another f**k up. 2024 election is not that far away and they need to stop giving the republicans easy ammunition 

[The players firstly have a responsibility to play within the rules. End of.]

It's do I want an easy night or do I let teams play championship football?

The players firstly have a responsibility to play within the rules. End of.

The referee has the responsibility of applying the rules.

Where it gets muddled is when the ref misses something (he's human, can happen) or when players decide to get some retribution from a previous challenge that went (in their eyes) against them.

This call from the sidelines that you hear in games, that's your fault ref, you caused that injury, we all know he didn't, he may have 'allowed' a robust tackle go as not every tackle is a foul which in turn leads to some payback, which is a foul, but it's not the refs fault.

I'd two teams years ago who from the get go couldn't handle their emotions, local derby and all that, 3 or 4 minutes in came the cry, you're losing it ref. After that I blew for everything, a free fest which descended into the worst game ever!

If players and managers control their emotions then the ref will have the easiest job, that's where it starts.

The players firstly have a responsibility to play within the rules. End of.

The referee has the responsibility of applying the rules.

Wrong way around, The referee has the responsibility of both establishing the latitude he will use in the application of the rules, and the actual application of the rules.

Players usually will respond to the referee and conduct themselves in that manor. If player see one of their teammates getting rough treatment and the referee doesn't deal with it properly, usually the group mentality of looking after your own kicks in, i.e. if the referee won't protect us we will have to. A lot of times, players and managers lose control their emotions when the referee is not properly or consistently applying the rules.

To the referee's on here, if you disagree with this, then you don't understand a key element of competitive physiology that exists in all contact sports. A referee can't control players from doing a dirty action, but how they deal with that will majorly influence how the game is played after that point

My youngest (U-8) plays soccer, during a match, the other teams left back continually left his feet with a two footed lunge to get the ball. The ref was walking past me and I quietly mentioned to him that its a foul and that he is going to hurt someone. The ref threatened to send me to the car, 10 mins later the left back did break an ankle.

I lost it, saying that it was the referees fault and it was, and his response as to tell me to control my emotions. He was more interested in controlling me than in properly controlling the game.

I regretted not losing my control earlier, as it would probably have prevented an 8 year old having his leg broken

This is why managers and supporters react the way they do on the sideline, and good referee's are ably to manage this

Come on Tiempo get with the times lol

County train maybe 3 times a week, thats 2 teams at adult level.

A club has underage right the way up to senior to cater for. Seniors train 2/3 times a week. How many pitch minutes do all these add up to.

Then club may have hurling, camogie, ladies football.

So 1 base is a must!

Plus Antrim hasn't an abundance of grounds with floodlights either.

Tyrone won 3 AI without a centre of excellence and 0 since it was opened

Pitch minutes is the right way of looking at it, there are pitches everywhere being underutilised

Yeno what'll happen, a centre of excellence will be built, next thing this high performance team will need a weekend retreat to Cork or Malaga for warm weather training, or some other local venue/pursuit will come into vogue like cryotheraphy chambers at a few hundred pound a pop, and the players won't be at the centre at all

Down did plenty of running up mountains to win their AI, not a county sec making phone calls in sight

Just blows my mind this insatiable need to spunk millions all over the place

Invest in coaching excellence

Antrim were behind the other counties in regards to facilities for years.

Yes Down ran up mountains and won All Irelands, and so did Antrim at that time, but for pitch work, Antrim only had LD & Rasharkin, Derry had nearly every club with floodlights that they could avail of, the same with Down and Tryone, so we are always playing catch up

Having a center of excellence takes pressure off club pitches. Was talking to a LD club man about 15 years ago and they had brought over a head groundsman from one of the professional clubs in england to look at their pitch in regards to what maintenance was needed to improve their grass surface.

When asked how often the pitch was used, the LD man stated every night of the week between all the teams, and the grounds man was shocked, stating that their pitch is fully relayed every two years (approx 60-80 games)

So investment in physical grounds is a necessity to ensure we have the facilities to promote our games , the trick is doing this and property and efficiently and investing in coaching at the same time

[Unfortunately the leadership is not there to create the culture and environment required to develop the conveyor belt of Good rounded footballers capable of competing at inter County level.]

This won't be a surprise to anyone who has been around juvenille football in Antrim for a reasonable number of years

The whole setup is in the dark ages relative to the vast majority of progressive counties.

We have had a few bright spots most noteably last year's U20 and the same group @ Minor.

Unfortunately the leadership is not there to create the culture and environment required to develop the conveyor belt of Good rounded footballers capable of competing at inter County level.

It is the whole process and structure that is broken not just the final years @ U17 & U20

To move forward and be competitive in a Senior context this really needs a total Reset and not a patch up.

We may get the odd bright spot where we get lucky with a group of players, a good coaching setup gets real buy in or a school does really well but that seems to be the way of it .....

Hope to get lucky

Have to agree with this! As someone who was involved in volunteering for both hurling and football Dev squads at different times over the years, there's always something stopping teams progressing the way they should, and it always seems to be buy-in, or lack of! I'm all for getting the best seniors out to play, and they are our "window" for young lads looking in, but what point is there investing money into the seniors if they haven't the foundations already in place?
I've spoke with a number of people involved in the minor set ups of the past, and the lack of support and resources available to these young lads is beyond shocking.
I'd love to see a proper pathway in place for teenagers to come through where they are educated about the technical, tactical and physical aspects of the game.
Being with the squads before, I'd learned a lot from the county coaches Alfie for football and Dominic for hurling (they are now Gaelfast too I think) but it always seemed like resources were holding us back from being able to do exactly what we needed to do. This has to change!

As club people we need to take a level of responsibility for the county performances too! How many football teams have we at minor-senior that actually compete in Ulster club over the years? How many schools? Same for hurling- we play B all Ireland in that?  it's clubs that build the foundations in players before they get to school level so surely if we get it right with our teams then it makes it easier to work with players at county/school?

Easy to point the finger at Gaelfast but they don't hold the purse strings and judging by how the director left, they don't seem to be given the freedom to call the shots either! Either things change the right way or we'll be no further up the road in a decade. Leadership is key!

Def should be better, but there is some obvious things that need to be built on, including trying to improve on structures already in place.

For example, schools football,St Mary's Magherafelt, St Patrick's Maghera, St Pius X Magherafelt, St Ronan's Lurgen, provide good college pathways for Aghagallan, Tir na Nog, Creegan, Cargin, Moneyglass, Portglenone, and potentially Rasharkin etc. Gaelfast should be focusing on Randalstown, St Pats Ballymena, etc for country football (I'm sure there are others)

In hurling, Garrontower, St Louis Ballymena, Cross and Passion and St Patricks Maghera are providing a pathway, we should be looking at supporting them even further

Same story in the city.

SO there are fragments on foundations that can be strengthened and improved

didn't see the TH, why was it bad

We also need to consider dual clubs as well

Lot of games to be played in a three month period if you are serious about progressing in both codes

Rory's talent is not in dispute, and his record is really good, but during the past few years his productivity has pales in significance when you comapre it to 2011-2016. The rate he set there was really improessive, but he has fallen off that lately.

Rory's problem is not with his driver or irons, its with his decision making, especially when he's in trouble so a potential bogie doesn't turn into a double, or a double into a triple, and his problems putting. The amount of putts he leaves on the green can be staggering.

In the states, there is a growing consensus that Rory struggles with pressure, he is 60-70 over in his major first rounds since he won his last major, and is something in the region of 60-80 under for the second round. That is an amazing stat, and indicates that he possibly suffers from nerves or stress or possibly over thinking a round in R1, and then plays with more freedom in R2. Not an expert, but that stat is really interesting.

To that end, i.e. nerves / stress, his openness or honesty during interviews is a bad strategy as he needs to prevent any additional stories that might add pressure or even noise that ultimately needs to be managed.

He needs to become a lot smarter in this regard, he created such a fuss about nothing during the last Olympics, and he nearly did it again, completely unnecessary.

In the states how he is increasingly being viewed as an enigma with amazing talent, "will Rory blow up in the first round, yep he's doing it again, now onto potential winners". During the past open, he is one that they cut away to if he does a great shot, not one of the main golfers that they like to follow.