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Jesus. Arva and Blackhill have some big units for Junior level

Arva are senior. It shows how strong Monaghan club football is however

Arva are Junior in 2023. Will be intermediate in 2024.

Fair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years.  Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.

The relevance of league positions to championship levels has become cloudy with the split season. A medium-sized club in a competitive county could get to end of May without a number of u20 county players, and end of July without a number of senior county players. A situation heightened again if dealing with a dual club. At which point there's really no comparison in terms of ability, between their senior football league team of early May and their championship team of late August.

That said. For as long as there's a core of "non-county" players within their club capable of holding down a D1 league spot, then that club should never be permitted an opportunity to play championship in any grade below SFC. Otherwise you might as well completely bin league football and just declare every match before August a friendly.

The county players argument actually works against people saying its grand for a team to play division one league and junior championship. As you say, surely if a team can play in division one with no county men, if you add the county men back in they are even stronger? Madness

Killygarry are one of the top sides in Cavan, finalists last year, drew with Gowna in the championship. They have a lot of county players and got relegated in the league. If the league and championship were linked they would be intermediate championship next year.

Simply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Junior Championship.

So if you're a junior team for 10 years, you get up to Div 2 win no games and get relegated in the league and then win the junior championship - you are excluded from the Ulster Junior Championship because you played Division 2 that year?

[Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team,]

Championship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club

But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.

Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?

They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?

All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.

Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.

Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?

I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.

So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league.  Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship

Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.

So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?

Championship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club

But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.

Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?

They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?

All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.

Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.

Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.

Correct.

A bit of a joke that a team in Div. 1 league, play in Junior Championship.

If there're good enough to play in Div. 1, they should play in senior championship.

Imagine Kerry looking to play in Tailteann Cup.

That's not how it works in Cavan. You earn or lose your championship status through championship football. League has nothing to do with it. They wouldn't be near Senior Championship level, couldn't win the Junior Championship last year.

Arva won a relegation playoff to stay in Div 1. They're a small club whose tradition would be Junior and Intermediate football, currently working off golden generation.

Any word on who is in the running for the senior job?

Celt today hinted that Hyland might well be nominated by one of the clubs, the man himself was quoted and wasn't ruling himself out by any means. Not sure what he'd bring that was any different to the first go around when - imo - he did a lot of good work but left a few big wins behind too before running out of road similar to Mickey.

On McGeeney, I share a lot of the misgivings but even someone as flawed as him is probably too high on the pecking order for Cavan as we currently stand. We're distinctly third rate and it'll only be when we stop codding ourselves about our history and legacy and status, and go back to the basics, with a lot of humility, and build from the bottom up, that things will improve sustainably. Two senior ulster titles in 54 goddamn years, for all our huffing and puffing and dreaming (me as bad as anyone) tells a tale we'd rather not acknowledge but it's there and time to stop hiding from it. So many counties have risen, fallen, and risen again in that time but we've remained mired for the most part and that's a sign we're doing it wrong too often.

Your second paragraph is a tough pill to swallow but an excellent summation of the state of affairs.

It all comes down to the underage really. Look what Derry have done since they got their house in order.

You would hope that the player pathway and academy manager initiatives will make a tangible difference and we can get the conveyor belt rolling again, keep the senior team in Division 2 and then look to where other changes need to be made. Schools I'd imagine should be number 1 on that list.

McGeeney improves teams and has proved very popular with players. On the other hand, his profile brings unwanted attention which heaps pressure on his teams. He is clearly very fond of his hard man image and that has seeped into his players.
His decision to bring Johnston on against Cavan in 2012 precludes him from ever coming to Cavan IMO, even if he wanted to.

Any word on who is in the running for the senior job?

Gaelic Life have it that it was work commitments. He's a loss overall but in fairness his form has been poor this year so his heart obviously hasn't been in it. Good opportunity for Jack McKenna or Donohoe to step up now and fill that role.

I find it hard to believe that's a happy camp given what we've seen since the Down game. We brought far more intensity to Mullingar in January than we did to that game.

Mickey Graham has been living off the Championship manager. He would probably have got away with another Donegal 2022 style gallant defeat but we can't excuse poor performances when things don't improve drastically come championship.

If we don't win the Tailteann Cup, it's probably time for new blood to oversee the rebuild that will be required over the next 5 years.

Minors played on it last weekend, it doesn't look great. I was down on it after and there are large parts up the centre with little to no grass.

Will Morgan have better manners this time around? Marking McVeety in 2019 I think he put in one of the most disgraceful performances I've ever seen before being taken off after 20 mins.

I sincerely hope you're right Dreadnought. Hard to overstate how big of a win this would be if we pulled it off.

Armagh should win this game comfortably enough i think. Cavan aren't a bad side, but aren't great either. I think armaghs last 2 seasons playing in the top division, along with Cavans playing in the bottom and 3rd division will stand to them

Agree. People talking up our chances aren't really basing it on the evidence of what we've seen from both sides over the last year or two. I think the 2 point handicap is very short and Armagh should win this game by 5+. Armagh scoring potential is far greater than Cavan's.

A FF line for example of Paddy Smith, Gearoid McKiernan and Dara McVetty is every bit as strong as Armaghs if Cavan were to line out like that.

Gearoid looks a shadow of himself coming off the back of a bad injury, Paddy is struggling for form and fitness and McVeety is playing through pain and hasn't played in the full forward line since 2019. The three of them have never played together in the full forward line together. I don't believe that can all be resolved in the 3 week break from league final to Championship.

They're all excellent talented players Itchy, I agree with you but the context is important.