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Collins and Dev were both fools. Britain was in the midst of a costly war, and at the same time were starting to do their damdest to get rid of Ireland. Churchill especially couldn't wait to see the back of the place. Without the War of Independance I believe there would have been an independant 32 county Ireland a few generations down the line, probably more at peace with itself, certainly not long after WWII. The "Empire" was truely starting to come apart at the seams after WWII, and in truth unlike some other colonies who had strategic or financial reasons for Britain having an interest in them all Ireland had to offer was cannon fodder. Irish recruits to the British Army would still have been plentiful enough after independance as it was steady work - there are even a sizeable number these days. The War of Independance seemed to sectarianise the situation a lot more than it had been previously, with protestant republicanism almost evaporating completely by the time the civil war was over.
Apart from anything else Dev was a cnut for signing the book of condolances for Hitler. Collins was at least smart enough to recognise the reality of the situation at the time - that many Irish people were totally opposed to leaving the UK and that it was the best deal he was ever going to get.     

Lordy!

I don't think anyone of any persuasion could argue that that image isn't offensive to the eyes.

[The last time I looked there were political boundaries between the three British countries i.e. their own parliaments, their own specific laws and in Scotland's case it's own specific legal system. I would never tell any Scot or Welsh person that they didn't have their own country. 

There's no English Parliament so let's abolish England as a Soccer entity.

Agreed!

Hold on a minute - I get too much pleasure laughing at their misfortune.

There are a few people here who need to take a bit of a closer look at things from their moral high ground. A recent murder spree in West Belfast, a man murdered delivering a pizza in Derry, police attacked in various towns and another joyrider kills himself before he can murder others. And still some seem to be having a fine time knocking the prods.

Fair enough then - would you like to quote me the statute where 2 associations separated by a recognised political border are permitted to merge? Or indeed find a precident?

trinidad & tobago ?

Nice try  , but T & T is one state cosisting of two Islands, not one Osland consisting of two states like ourselves.

Going by Solomon's wisdom above there should be no Scottish,Welsh,English or (NE)Irish FAs only a single UKFA.

The last time I looked there were political boundaries between the three British countries i.e. their own parliaments, their own specific laws and in Scotland's case it's own specific legal system. I would never tell any Scot or Welsh person that they didn't have their own country. 

Fair enough then - would you like to quote me the statute where 2 associations separated by a recognised political border are permitted to merge? Or indeed find a precident?

trinidad & tobago ?

Nice try  , but T & T is one state cosisting of two Islands, not one Osland consisting of two states like ourselves.

Only if the political situation on the ground reflects a split or merger. Serbia/Montenegro reflects this. The border is however a real and tangible fact of life.

Where did you get that "only" condition from?
There are no such conditions in FIFA statutes.
FIFA decide on the merits of an application for membership.

If the 2 associations want to reunite, political unity or independence is not a requirement.


In fact in the statutes it states for new members.
6 "An Association in a region which has not yet gained independence
may, with the authorisation of the Association in the country on
which it is dependent, also apply for admission to FIFA"

Regions like Catalonia and Andalusia could apply for membership, with the blessing of the Spanish FA and be accepted as a member before gaining political independence, in the same way as the 4 UK associations are recognised as members.

Fair enough then - would you like to quote me the statute where 2 associations separated by a recognised political border are permitted to merge? Or indeed find a precident?

[Imagine if some right-wing crowd had a Kill All Jews banner on display in London?]

The bonfires with the KAT (kill all taigs) written on it? These are an affront to anyone with decency. Imagine if some right-wing crowd had a Kill All Jews banner on display in London? Don't think it would be allowed.

Or a left-wing or radical Islamic rally? This is a disturbingly common attitude among many who try and hide their anti-semitism behind an anti-Zionism or pro-Palestinian front. One bastard had the audacity to come out with that very statement in my own home a few weeks ago. Needless to say he won't be back. The left and the right are equally intolerant these days as far as certain issues go. Technically it probably isn't allowed but when there are big crowds involved anywhere cops don't tend to get involved and I can't say I blame them. 

They wont have the balls to withdraw the funding.
Those similarities with the nazis obviously still run true in some parts of the north

Burning a flag and gassing 6 million Jews. Aye, it's much the same thing.

[FIFA statutes allow for splits and reunions.]

Is it not true that the only obstacle to an All Ireland soccer side emanates from the IFA?

Joined only by FIFA, UEFA, the FAI, most football fans in Northern Ireland, most international players in the Northern Ireland and the Republic squads who would not be sure of their place in the squad and anyone with a titter of wit. No-one important then.

Actually Tony is closer to the core of the matter than you 

Hypothetical situation I know.

It's the respective football federations who have the say, the IFA and the FAI.
FIFA statutes allow for splits and reunions.
First UEFA would have to give their blessing after an appraisal of the merits of the application.
If the application was sound, UEFA would approve and forward their approval to FIFA

Typically the Assoc elected members have the vote according to their own views and have the views of the wider membership to consider.
Players who are interested in their own interests first, have much less weight.

I'd say at a guess, if there was enough of a demand for a united team in the North, many would then be ready for a debate in the South.

When Tony says the IFA is the only obstacle -  essentially it is the first obstacle and the biggest obstacle.
The IFA is an association with thousands of members.

UEFA and FIFA are not obstacles.

Only if the political situation on the ground reflects a split or merger. Serbia/Montenegro reflects this. The border is however a real and tangible fact of life.

Is it not true that the only obstacle to an All Ireland soccer side emanates from the IFA?

Joined only by FIFA, UEFA, the FAI, most football fans in Northern Ireland, most international players in the Northern Ireland and the Republic squads who would not be sure of their place in the squad and anyone with a titter of wit. No-one important then.

Jaysus Solomon, you must be the last one here still taking his comments seriously!

My bad

Is it not true that the only obstacle to an All Ireland soccer side emanates from the IFA?

Joined only by FIFA, UEFA, the FAI, most football fans in Northern Ireland, most international players in the Northern Ireland and the Republic squads who would not be sure of their place in the squad and anyone with a titter of wit. No-one important then.

Absolutely hilarious  - after a decade or so of howling at the moon TF gets landed with a tatty cheap piece of Taiwanese electronics as a reward. The irony here is that in the extremely unlikely event that the Northern Ireland and ROI teams merged he would have no reason for living. 

As for our troubles not being over you obviously have no concept of the pointless bloodshed that went on here for decades. We now have fewer violent killings here than the ROI does amd there is no sign of anyone with any influence here having any appetite for the evil we lived through.

I said true enough to your original statement.
I was not referring to troubles as in war troubles. Just despair at the political/social process.

It's getting better and better every day - if all goes well over the weekend it will be proof we are heading towards a fairly normal society. "Cycle Of Violence" is a good jumping on point for Bateman's work. He also writes Murphy's Law for TV.

What about letting them go down in the middle of the night/very early in the morning, when all the locals are still in bed. Don't let them play any tunes - that would wake everyone up. Is that not a compromise?

That one was actually tried on the Ormeau Rd and Greard Rice hastily organised an all night street party for the residents to coincide. A plague on both their houses.*







*i.e. the shit stirrers in both sides of the community.