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Ha ha!

Someone needs to end this pissing contest and close the thread!

The management pulled a fast one here ... drop Paddy to show him who's boss against a team you know you can beat.
It was a calculated gamble - apologies Carlow.

They knew this would happen.

There was no reason that I've heard to drop him - apart from show him who's boss.
Shocking man management on the backroom teams part.

Who in their right mind would drop him? Even if he was injured you'd have him on the pitch as a distraction to the other defenders. While he has rubbed the odd person up the wrong way, he's a hell of a talent to be able to drop.

I honestly think Cassidy has signed his own resignation speak with that team selection.

[Finnerty started it!]

Do you really think Meath players never did any dirty shenanigans off the ball?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWdn6Gmrkz8

Shur Meath are pure gents.

That was self-defence.
Finnerty started it!

Correct!

And then lay down!

Alot of very good points being made here lads.

I certainly agree that the club competition structures need to be examined and not interfered with constantly.

I also think that an overall county team programme needs to be put in place. Mickey Harte has done this with Tyrone and brought it through at all levels. Do we have such a personality who could be in effect a "Director of Football" that all teams would listen to, respect?

Abbeysider makes valid points about the media. I think Mayo fans are guilty of the same thing - building up fellas without any great achievement, but very slow to realise the realities. The perfect example is Austin O'Malley who because of one league game against Dublin because a top-class forward in the minds of many and the answer in the eyes of many people when things were going badly up front. Fellas need to earn respect not be ordained heroes based on one or two games.

The difficulty for the media is there is an insatiable demand for Mayo football related news. The Mayo News and Western have a page or two on the Mayo intercounty teams every week - minimum - and that includes the darks of winter. There is usually an interview with a player or manager as to how things are going. Look at the Galway papers or other counties and you struggle to find such coverage. A lower key preparation would certainly help everybody and let people earn respect, not have reputations created by words.

Don't overrate the Tyrone model either ... it evolved rather than was designed specifically or totally.

But your point or the essence of it is correct.

Well I'm with Zulu on this, and he never said he could do a better job that Jack O'Connor.

In fairness nobody said that either!

I think he was taking the pizza order for the lads.

Lyons said 'Cut it in 3 as I'd never eat 6 pieces'

McStay is a disaster IMO.

Sorry, but can't stand the man.
I don't think he has a clue at all.

He's always moaning about the physcialness of the game and pointing out rough play, which is in fact simple good hard honest football.

I genuinely think he has a visual defect (I honestly do) as I've seem him claim things and know he was completely wrong, then watched the replay and found he was as wrong as I was right ... and he's at the game!!!

I hate listening to him, about the only man as bad as Tommy 'arse-boxing' Lyons.

Then of course we have the 'turnovers' and basketball speak ...

Nope, sorry Seany, you're on your own on that one!

Just after coming on this thread late-ish 

Zulu -
From what I've read I don't think Konica's point is about peaking per se - rather that you see yourself able to criticize a manager who has produced results.
He has a point. Unless you're Mickey Harte of course.

Dinny -
I'm not surprised by the Kildare failure to be honest. I know some of the things they did and the philosophies behind them and it's no surprise they bombed they how they did. I just surprised they didn't spot it earlier or hadn't the experience to spot it earlier. Mind you, I think peaking is far from the only issue they have.

And 'Peaking' a team for a game is very possible.
While it's complex and not straightforward, it's very possible if the right people are in control and managing the process.

After Sundays performance they fuckin need some sort of Psychological boost. Even if that was the case - he isnt getting a game and isnt giving any sort of psychological advantage anyway.

The supporters need one too!

Mick McGurn has even said himself that Gaelic Football is about speed. He isnt bulking the team up in any way he wants to make them faster. Obviously to an extent strength is needed.

Who cares what is being said ... look at the results!
Talk is cheap.

Rings were run around the team, with many looking blatantly pedestrian.

I was making two points with that statement Logan. First being that the aim if this team in not to bulk up so perhaps the wrong selections are being made because that is what is happening. Numer 2, management in my opinion arent up to it, even if it is only 2 games in.

I don't honestly know what the workings are but the game has moved on to a more mobile game and Armagh haven't moved.

I think there are serious questions over management indeed, but I think the selectors must have some questions to answer... can't they see what the opposition see and plan to counter it?



(One question by the way I'd had before the game (and the Derry game) is why is Enda McNulty back on the panel? I'd love someone to give me the honest answer for that ... and if someone mentions psychology I'll laugh ... )

Wonder will McGeeney be in Kildare next year?

Mick McGurn has even said himself that Gaelic Football is about speed. He isnt bulking the team up in any way he wants to make them faster. Obviously to an extent strength is needed.

Who cares what is being said ... look at the results!
Talk is cheap.

Rings were run around the team, with many looking blatantly pedestrian.

I wonder is this what Grimbo saw coming when he jumped ship ....?

They looked mobile enough during the league. They were flying in some games, playing brilliant fast, running football. I don't know what's changed since then, it's the same players. Maybe they were just playing shite teams that let them run all over the place.

Of course they did - ground was heavy and they were training like loons for the winter, more than anyone else.
But you're right, playing sh!te teams didn't help either!

[Have to agree with that indiana, it seems that POR places a lot of emphasis on size in his team, rather than a genuine scoring threat and a bit of flair (exception jamie clarke).]

The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

Rubbish..........at 23/24 McGeeney, McGrane et al were getting their arses whipped by Derry, they learnt from that, hopefully our lads will learn from this also. Players aren't in their prime until 26-28. The other thrust of my argument is that the lads of that age are only getting to play in their positions now (with the exception of Kieran Toner who has played a few years in MF at this stage).

Lavery looks like the only one with the required tools. Armagh are at a crossroads One wonders will that little wizard off their minors at corner forward last year be given a shot at it. Or simply be deemed too small. The latter I'd suspect. A sea change is required in Armagh football in my view. Talent has to supercede size. Currently in Armagh the latter is king IMO.

Have to agree with that indiana, it seems that POR places a lot of emphasis on size in his team, rather than a genuine scoring threat and a bit of flair (exception jamie clarke). It seems he is content to play midfielfders as half forwards, and IMO the team will never improve without 5/6 forwards who have the potential to get you at least 2-3 points per game. You only have to look at teams like Cork and Kerry; they do not rely on 1 forward to get all their scores. Their whole forward line can take a score and they are miles ahead of Armagh at the minute. The good thing is that the squad is young and hopefully they will produce their best in the next couple of years

I'm not so sure that it's as simple as that. Outside of the wing forward positions, the players selected are there because they're the best the county has to offer, not because of their size. The half forward line has been a long term problem for us, and it seems in the absence of any stand out candidates to fill the 10 and 12 jerseys that O'Rourke decided to throw in a couple of big men. Even at that, Swift's footballing ability probably justifies his selection. It's easy to throw out broad, unspecific criticisms, but when looked at in detail, the number of positions where size has ousted footballing ability is very minimal.

Haven't said it on a whim. But i'm fairly well connected in Armagh. I said Grimley wasn't going there a long time before anyone else did and I also knew Dyas was coming home from Oz a long time before anyone else here knew about it- something I was ridiculed for saying here by some Armagh posters. And from speaking to people up there from the original post above it's a concern among them.
The Armagh  2002 version was a team of big men could play. Which is probably ideal. Rare enough you ever get that though. Your underage teams recently have been quite good but small by your standards. So it will be interesting to see over the coming years what way it pans out. Whether the fact they are small will be held against them.
I though Swift, Duffy and Clarke looked like real finds of the newer players. A lof of your others in my view looked slow and over-sized without naming names. in fairness Mc Gurn has said he feels a lot of them are too big and he's down sizing a lot of them. that will probably take 12 months. Mc donnell is back to his best since he stopped doing weights.
It was ironic on Saturday evening watching a small louth half forward with little or no muscle mass barrelling one of the minature bodybuilders from Kildare out of the way. Obviously Kildare don't do much in the way of core strength- I thought the same of Armagh on Sunday. Smaller monaghan lads were better at carrying it through contact. Found that surprising myself.

It's got nothing to do with the weight you are - it's how you use it.

I think people have been sold a Pup on the weights stuff.
And you're wrong on Stevie stopping doing weights, it's other way round and on the core strength stuff too.

Strength is important but not at the expense of mobility and Armagh have no mobility of substance and much less than most Ulster counties.

Look at Tyrone and Monaghan, both very fast and fit - look at Armagh, slow and strong, laborious getting to the ball.

It doesn't matter how strong/big etc someone is if they can't last 70 minutes of full out movement and Armagh can't do that. Talk of toning players down or doing short 45 minute training sessions is nonsense too - after 45 minutes you see where Armagh were the last day - out on their feet - and after 45 minutes the last day they tired and a bad Derry team started to come back in the game it and only for the sending off and penalty, who knows.

Vernon shouldn't walk past a gym let alone go into one.
Most of the boys are strong enough - it's more running they need not weights.

The game has changed - but for Armagh it changed years ago.

The last time I saw that vision was Fermangh running rings round O'Rourke and Co. in Croker and back then the writing was on the walll - Armagh are too slow and not mobile enough.

It's not weights, it's mobility they need.