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Sean Kelly was on The GAA Hour podcast from earlier today. I was annoyed with his speech at Congress but he made a lot of sense with his suggestions today. Just infuriating we'll have to wait another year to try and get the change in.

Seán Kelly's argument was a complete red herring. He tried to make out that the problem was with the wording of the motion and that if it had been worded in such a a way that every team in the Super 8s would get one home, one away and one neutral venue (instead of Croke Park), it might have passed.

This is nonsense. When they were making the rules for the Super 8s, they purposely put in 'Croke Park' instead of 'neutral venue' so that there would still 4 Quarter Finals games in Croke Park, the exact same number of games that were there under the old system. The GAA hierarchy hate to see games taken away from Croker due to the money making infrastructure, the corporate boxes, premium seats, bars, merchandise etc. A game in Croker with an attendance of 30,000 is worth multiple times more to the GAA than a game in a provinvial venue with the exact same attendance.

If Donegal worded that motion the way Séan Kelly has laid out, it would have been defeated by even more than it was. The reality is that he is deflecting to save face. He knows that the public can see this for what it is, money taking precedence over fairness and integrity.

An absolute disgrace. It's been clear for a while now that Congress is a total fraud. If it was truly democratic, every county board would have had a vote on every one of the motions before congress happens. Then it would just be a matter of turning up and voting as mandated. Instead we get a bunch of old gombeen delegates that turn up and get told what to do by an increasingly Dublin dominated Ard- Comhairle (John Horan and Tom Ryan).

This vote shouldn't even have been close. We're talking about moving one match here in the interest fairness and the integrity of the competition. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. Outside of money, is there any other reason that the decision might be beneficial for counties outside of Dublin? Fair play to the likes of Donegal, Mayo, Galway and Cork for voting in favour. Shame on the counties that didn't, particularly the once proud county of Meath, now firmly in the position of the croppy lying down.

In relation to a black card offence, it's blatantly obvious that it matters where the infraction takes place. McManus upending a player on the ball, versus a provoked McManus upending a player away from the action is not the same officiating scenario in the GAA. Both Cooper and McManus were involved in an off the ball incident, a tumble in the grass. If the ref deemed it serious enough, it was either a yellow or red card offence. The ref dealt with the incident appropriately and in accordance with the rules.

As far as I know, there is no stipulation in either the 'deliberate pull down' or the 'trip' black card rule that the offence be on the ball or even that the offence be anywhere near the play.

Seamie O Shea got a black card half way through an All-Ireland Semi final even though the ball was nowhere near the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soMVvRJCnvQ

[yesterday the first galway black card was after 20 minutes. So you'd expect him back on at 30 minutes. Except in the next few minutes there was a couple of injuries and a 'melee' which all added time. So It was after 30 minutes before sin bin no.1 was over.]

Having seen the sin-bin in operation in the Galway V Ros match yesterday, on a practical level, how will club referees manage?

yesterday the first galway black card was after 20 minutes. So you'd expect him back on at 30 minutes. Except in the next few minutes there was a couple of injuries and a 'melee' which all added time. So It was after 30 minutes before sin bin no.1 was over.

In addition, there was a second sin binning for galway after about 32 minutes (galway were down to 13 for a period). But with all the injury time played at the end of the first half, most of the second sin binning period was actually in the first half (even though he was sin binned about 3 minutes before the 35 minutes were due to be up!).

It's going to be very hard for the refs in club matches (where it's hard enough to get an upmire, let alone a linesman as well!) to deal with all this.
I've no problem with the sin bin in theory (and in intercounty matches where there are plenty of officials), but how well will it work in the club game?

I read somewhere yesterday that unlike rugby, the sin bin clock doesn't stop when the ball is out of play.
So in theory, if a player got a black card and another player was injured at the time and there was a break in play for 10 mins, the black carded player would be back on the field for the resumption of play, not having missed anything!

I wasn't aware of that. I assumed the sinbin clock would be stopped for an injury or whenever the ref stops his watch (i.e. anything that warrants additional time being added on at the end of the half).

Then surely it pays to have a melee every time you get a black card so. The longer it takes the ref to sort it all out, the shorter the period without the sin-binned player!

Also, what about the additonal time at the end of a half.
Say Player gets black carded after 34 minutes. There are say 3 additonal minutes at the end of the first half. Do those 3 minutes eat into the sinbinned players' time or not?
I.e. is he due back after 9 minutes of the second hald, or 6 minutes of the second half?

A rugby-like stopclock would cut out a lot of that shit. Is there any other game in the world where teams regularly start a melee because they know it will benefit them in terms of time keeping?

Yet the rules committee came to the conclusion that the '3 handpass rule' was more of a priority!

Here's 5 areas that, if addressed, would be far more beneficial to the game then the 5 rules that were proposed.

1. A properly defined tackle

2. Enforce the steps rule

3. A Stopclock

4. Immediate yellow card for the prevention of a quick free

5. A free from the 20 metre line for cynical fouls committed anywhere on the pitch

Dick genuinely doesnt have a notion.

Tweeting that the volunteer isnt the one complaining about this but more so people who do nothing for the club are making the most noise.

Bullshit.

The prices to attend these games are getting to disgraceful levels.

And dont get me started on this craic the money is filtering down to grassroots......that would be why the clubs are under extreme financial pressure with higher and higher amounts of fees due each year.

With all this extra money why doesnt the GAA just do a JP and make a payment to each club at the end of each financial year rather than giving bulk payments to those gobshites at the GPA.

*rantover*

Well said, another bugbear of mine is the amount of money that is pumped into GAA clubs overseas when clubs at home are struggling. We are not in the 1980s anymore, the majority of Irish people living abroad are doing so due to a lifestyle choice, not forced emigration. In 2017, the GAA gave 126,350 euro to 59 overseas clubs. One club got 16k, another 15k. I wouldn't say there's many clubs at home that got anything near that.

The GAA also contributed 1.4 million to the redevelopment of Ruislip in London. People might think twice before paying the increased ticket prices if they knew that a portion of their ticket money was being sent overseas.

I haven't read a lot the last few pages but anted to pop in and say that anyone; A) Advocating for these rule changes, or B) Advocating for any other rule changes, are the Enemy of GAA, Gaelic Football and Irish past times in general. They are the anti christ.

+1
Making a dogs dinner of the whole thing.

Agreed.  Said it before but I'll repeat.  I think this is pretty simple.

1.Enforce the 4 steps rule properly
2.Don't blow a free for every bit of incidental contact with the ball carrier

Encourages people to tackle the ball carrier and makes it more difficult to hold possession.  Watch the game open up.

I agree 100%

So true. How the powers that be can't see this is beyond me. As long as refs consistently give the benefit of the doubt to the man in possession, we will continue to see blanket defences. No amount of flawed handpass rules will change this.

[Handpass]

My €0.02...

Handpass

To introduce a restriction of three consecutive passes of the ball with the fist or open hand by players of the team in possession.

The only way this might work is if after the third consecutive handpass, the player in possession wishing to make a further pass could only do so by kicking it in a forward direction travelling at least 20 metres (arbitrary distance). This would likely still give rise to problems to an attacking team that has reclaimed possession deep in their opponents defence that is working the ball out into a scoring position with several quick fist passes, as defenders will know if the third handpass recipient has more limited opportunities to play the ball. Otherwise as already mentioned by a couple of others here, players will simply use short kicks to reset the handpass count - the type of kicks most players should have left behind once they were too old to play at under 12.

Sideline Kick

That the ball shall be played in a forward direction from the kick.

Exception:

In the case of a side-line kick being taken by an attacking player on or inside the opponents' 13m line, the ball may be kicked in any direction.

Not really sure what this is being put up for, but I see not much harm giving it a trial with one amendment. Namely in the exception it should be the opponents 20 metre line instead of 13 metre.

The Mark

To extend the application of the Mark to the clean catching of the ball on or inside the 20m line from a kick delivered on or beyond the 45m line without it touching the ground.

In the case of a Mark being awarded to an attacking player on or inside the 20m line, the free, if availed of, shall be taken from the point on the 20m line directly in line where the Mark is awarded.

In the case of a Mark being awarded to a defending player on or inside the 20m line, the free kick, if availed of, shall be taken from the point where the Mark is awarded.

The application of the Mark in the two areas of it arising (i.e. as in current Rule and in new Proposal) shall be standardised as follows:

* Up to 15 seconds shall be allowed for a free to be taken from a Mark.
* If the Referee determines that the player who makes the Mark has been injured in the process and unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the player's nearest team mate to take the kick.
* A score may be made from a free awarded for a Mark.
* The normal Rules governing free-kicks shall apply (e.g. players being 13m from the ball before it is kicked).

Exception:

A free-kick from a Mark shall be taken from the hand(s) only.

If a player opts to 'play on' when awarded a Mark, he may be challenged i.e. provisions (b) (i) and (ii) of the current Mark Rule shall not apply during the experimentation.

I can see what they're trying to achieve here and the idea behind it is a positive one. Definitely worth trialling. The issues surrounding players being double or triple marked can be rebuffed by pointing out the spare player(s) that can mop up potential breaking balls. Two possible side effects are (a) teams having a player in a permanent "moocher" role that spends most of their time between his opponents end line and 20 metre line whose main role is to make marks, and (b) an increase in the number of balls hit in towards the corners away from a more crowded centre for the purpose of making clean marks which are then brought out to the 20 metre line for a clean strike - this would seem to be opposite to the spirit of the idea of rewarding fielding within the area around the goalmouth. There could also be wider issues of an attacker and wherever they should be awarded a mark having caught a ball within the boundary stated (including if the player jumps behind the 20 metre line with his back to goal, but lands in front of it. Nevertheless, worth giving it a go.

Sin-Bin

The Penalty on the day for a Black Card Infraction or two Yellow Card Infractions - an ordering off for ten minutes in a Sin Bin.

A subsequent Black Card Infraction shall be penalised by the showing of a Black Card followed by a Red Card.

A subsequent Yellow Card Infraction shall be penalised by the showing of a Yellow Card followed by a Red Card.

In either case there shall be no substitution allowed.

The maximum number of substitutions in normal time to return to five.

The Duties of a Referee and Sideline Official to be amended in accordance with this Proposal.

What kind of shite is this? This is a potential proposal that'll make the teams hatchet man have their eyes light up. The only bit in this that makes sense if reducing the amount of subs down to five. If they want to go for a sin-bin, approach it the same way it's done in womens football - yellow card, hello 10 minutes. Second yellow card? Goodbye! I can't think of any particular reason this can't work in the mens game, and if a referee for an under 14 girls club league game on a Monday evening travelling on their own can cope with the sin-bin timings, I'm sure the refs in the mens game can cope too. At the same time, scrap the black card and integrate the offences for getting one into being yellow carded.

Kick-Out/Zoning

For a kick-out, two players only from each team shall be positioned between the two 45m lines.

The goalkeeper and a maximum of six players from each team shall be behind the respective 45m lines, until the ball is kicked.

The ball from the kick-out shall travel beyond the 45m line before being played by a player of the defending team.

Other Rules relating to the kick-out to remain unchanged.

Penalties:

(1)  For another player on the team taking a kick-out to play the ball before it has travelled outside the 45m line or has been played by an opposing player.

Penalty:

(i)  Cancel kick-out

(ii)  Throw in the ball on defenders' 20m line in front of the scoring space.

(2)  For a player to cross a 45m line before the ball is kicked for the kick-out.

(3)  For a player(s) to, in the opinion of the referee, deliberately seek to delay the kick-out by not retreating behind the 45m lines in a timely manner.

Penalty for the above Fouls:

A 45m free off the ground and in front of the scoring space shall be awarded to the opposing team.

(4)  For a player(s) of each team to simultaneously cross the 45m line(s) before the ball is kicked from the kick-out:

Penalty:

A throw-in ball shall be awarded on the centre of the 45m line involved or at the centre of the field (if infringements are made on both 45m lines).

This idea seems to have come up by someone or some group whom have been thinking too hard of issues concerning one level of the game to the neglect of others. Plenty has already been mentioned here from others of the flaws behind this idea from players waiting on the edge of the 45 'till the ball is kicked, that those behind the idea (Tyrone examples here) have never tried to kick a ball out against the wind when any breeze starts picking up in Greencastle, Brocagh, Derrylaughan or even Garvaghy (those wind turbines next door aren't for decoration), not to mention that many under 14 goalkeepers or defenders (and a few even older) might struggle to get their kick out to clear the 45 even on a calm day. Did someone say that Joe B**lly has put this forward in the past? If so then that explains a fúcking lot.

Extra...

When new rule changes are being proposed and then brought on to trial, using the NFL alone is simply not enough. As the trial rules if deemed successful will be likely introduced across the board then they should be trialled at club and underage levels too - for this, give counties and provinces an incentive to be a guinea pig at two adult club level competitions and two youth level competitions per province, e.g. within Ulster have the rules trialled at one club cup competition in a county, one reserve league or championship in another county, one underage competition at under 14 or under 16 in a third county, with the final trial being the Ulster MFL. Get feedback from all levels.

Would have like to have seen a proposal to give a bigger punishment for dissent beyond the 13 metres moved forward, I know the 30 metre proposal was defeated. Personally would have gone for 25/30 metres forward or up to the 45 metre line of the team making the infraction, whatever was closer to the goal.

Also whatever happened to the countdown clock trial? I remember it being passed at congress for trial a few years ago but it was never to my knowledge given an actual go.

It would have meant less replays so the loss in revenue wasn't too appealing for the GAA. In their infinite wisdom, they obviously think the sideline kick is a more pressing matter 

[Think about the same scenario now with a Sin Bin and team down to 14 men and a spare man knocking about for the kickout.]

Take last years AIF, when David Clarke was kicking out the ball and players were being fouled left right and centre.  Black cards should have been issued. Think about the same scenario now with a Sin Bin and team down to 14 men and a spare man knocking about for the kickout.  Same with someone taking one for the team in the last 5 minutes.  Playing out the last 5 minutes of a tight game with a man down is a major deterrent.

Wow! It's amazing how so many people (who presumably watched the game?) completely forgot what their own eyes saw and instead, like sheep, have their opinions changed to agree with some loudmouth in the media who hasn't a clue what they're talking about.

The incident you refer to happened deep into injury time. There were 6 minutes of injury time indicated by the ref and Rock took the previous free kick to put Dublin ahead at 76:02. The initial kickout went beyond the 45m where there were 2 Mayo men and 3 Dublin men waiting. The ball broke and one of the 3 Dubs, Cian O'Sullivan, was just about to pick it up when everyone realised the whistle had sounded. Before the whistle went the only two players on the ground were Kilkenny and Keegan. After the whistle went a number of other wrestling matches broke out.

Imagine if the ref had black-carded Ciaran Kilkenny and that Dublin had used all their subs so they were down to 14 men and if Mayo had an extra man knocking about for the kickout. Imagine if the ref ordered a re-take of the kickout. Imagine if the ref had added an additional minute and a half to injury time to deal with the time wasted in showing the card and having the kick re-taken. Imagine what Mayo would do with the extra man and extra minute
and a half to get an equalizer.

Maybe you should re-watch it to see exactly what happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxVkVzXci6M
(Rock's freekick at 2:34:30)

The rules were there and implemented, and if Clarke had found a man the narrative would have been how cynicism was duly punished. There was no fouling for the actual final kickout.

You must be ripping the piss there lad. Why on earth would Mayo players go and start a 'wrestling match' when they're a point down with a minute to go in an All-Ireland final? Even the video you posted (which doesn't show all the players) shows Costello and McManamon running straight to there opponents and grabbing them before the kick-out was taken.

I agree with the second bit in bold, the rules were implemented (except for not issuing a couple of more yellows to Dublin forwards which would have been pointless anyway) and they had little negative consequence for Dublin's systematic fouling. Hence, the reason the rules need to be examined, although i'm not sure the current proposal is the answer.

If you seriously believe that Kilkenny's foul on Keegan was the only Dublin foul for that kick-out, you either

A) Weren't at the match
or
B) have fallen seriously hard for the Jim Gavin 'honest team' narrative/ Dubs persecution complex.

I enjoy the podcast in general. He talks some shite in relation to administrative issues though, as if the complex fixtures issue could be sorted overnight by Wolly's magic wand. When he sticks to on-field topics, it's probably the best GAA podcast out there

[given what he achieved in a small county pick wise, where football isnt the most popular sport,]

If that's the case this will end similar to the previous JackO experiment all them years ago.
I reckon someone on our board has the "Kerrys golden years" video at home on constant loop and believes football ended sometime in the early 80s

I don't understand this, Jack O'Connor has nothing to do with the Kerry establishment of those days. He is a proven manager at this level, and when not at this level is a proven All Ireland winner at underage.

Hell of a sight better than the one trick pony that is Jimmy McGuinness, we dodged a bullet with that charlatan who hasn't achieved anything in Gaelic Football in years

That said, Horan should be the preferred candidate for me

The game has changed a lot at senior since even wee Jack was last in charge. Bizarre to call Jim McGuiness a charlatan when he still remains the last person to beat Dublin in the championship.

Enjoy being bled dry if this isn't the usual wind up..

Jim MCG is a one trick pony, got out after he was found out

How was he found out? He got out after making an All Ireland final with an average to good group of players, beating the seemingly unbeatable Dubs and losing the final mainly because his goalkeeper kicked a short one straight to Donaghy.

His 4 years are probably one of the most impressive management stints in history, given what he achieved in a small county pick wise, where football isnt the most popular sport, with a moderately talented group of players whose historical team ethos involved more dancing on tables than dancing between cones.

It's unquestionable that teams have adapted against the defensive style and its no longer as effective. But who's to say he couldnt adapt with that? His 2011 style was markedly different from the way they played in 2014, and that last year he gave us was hardly unsuccessful as you seem to suggest.

I'd agree with most of that but the bit in bold is pure nonsense. Per registered player, Donegal have the biggest pick in Ulster and when you half Galway and Cork's pick due to the hurling split, they have 6th biggest pick of the football counties in Ireland.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

Balls.ie. Jaysus. It's a 130k population (loads of people living elsewhere ticking yes to the census back 'home'). If you've spent any time whatsoever in the county you'd know it's mainly soccer dominated bar the few backwater spots on the south and Western seaboard, places where they can barely keep 15 young lads to field a team because they're all in Canada or Australia. They have a moderate to small pick by any metric. Those numbers are no indication of actual patricipation. It's a very poor senior club scene with more than a few clubs struggling for numbers.

Good man. If you don't think that the amount of registered adult club players in a county is the best way of gauging the size of pick that a county manager has then there's no point in talking to you.

[given what he achieved in a small county pick wise, where football isnt the most popular sport,]

If that's the case this will end similar to the previous JackO experiment all them years ago.
I reckon someone on our board has the "Kerrys golden years" video at home on constant loop and believes football ended sometime in the early 80s

I don't understand this, Jack O'Connor has nothing to do with the Kerry establishment of those days. He is a proven manager at this level, and when not at this level is a proven All Ireland winner at underage.

Hell of a sight better than the one trick pony that is Jimmy McGuinness, we dodged a bullet with that charlatan who hasn't achieved anything in Gaelic Football in years

That said, Horan should be the preferred candidate for me

The game has changed a lot at senior since even wee Jack was last in charge. Bizarre to call Jim McGuiness a charlatan when he still remains the last person to beat Dublin in the championship.

Enjoy being bled dry if this isn't the usual wind up..

Jim MCG is a one trick pony, got out after he was found out

How was he found out? He got out after making an All Ireland final with an average to good group of players, beating the seemingly unbeatable Dubs and losing the final mainly because his goalkeeper kicked a short one straight to Donaghy.

His 4 years are probably one of the most impressive management stints in history, given what he achieved in a small county pick wise, where football isnt the most popular sport, with a moderately talented group of players whose historical team ethos involved more dancing on tables than dancing between cones.

It's unquestionable that teams have adapted against the defensive style and its no longer as effective. But who's to say he couldnt adapt with that? His 2011 style was markedly different from the way they played in 2014, and that last year he gave us was hardly unsuccessful as you seem to suggest.

I'd agree with most of that but the bit in bold is pure nonsense. Per registered player, Donegal have the biggest pick in Ulster and when you half Galway and Cork's pick due to the hurling split, they have 6th biggest pick of the football counties in Ireland.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

Think we need a separate set of rules for the inter-county game tbh.
Some things, i.e. the two refs, would work well at county level but simply wouldn't be practical at club level.

Agree. There are some areas where there just needs to be a separate set of rules. One of the reasons given for not introducing a stop-clock was that it would not be possible to have a clock in every club ground in the country. The GAA should grant funding to every county board to install a clock in all 32 county grounds, then at least the inter county game could be timed properly and we wouldn't have shit-shows like last Sunday. That would not cost too much and would be money better spent than some of the current 'black hole' projects.

Like in rugby, referees could then stop the clock every time they have to issue a card, every time there's 'handbags', substitutions, injuries etc. and there would be total clarity. It would also cut out a lot of the bullshit that goes on towards the end of matches when the team that are leading start a row/ take a card in order to run down the clock.

[Beating Dublin is psychological. Mayo couldn't do it.]

A Galway win would be like Cork v Kerry 83 or Down v Kerry 91 or Mayo v Kerry 96

In fairness Kerry 1996 was a very inexperienced team.

None of those are in any way comparable.
Dublin have won 5 AIs in 7 years.
None of those 3 Kerry teams were reigning AI champions - in fact two of them hadn't won Munster in 5 years before that.

The all Ireland context is less important. Beating Dublin is psychological. Mayo couldn't do it. Tyrone couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it.
Since the end of the 60s ulster teams lost every time to Munster or Leinster opposition . Connacht teams couldn't manage it either. That was psychological.
Then Down beat Kerry. Everyone neutral expected Kerry to win. Everyone expects Dublin to win the next day.

Champions win in part because of the respect that the opposition gives them. Why do Real win so many Champions League finals ? 

It's interesting for Galway fans because the hurlers are in the incumbent role and the footballers are challenging and the dynamics for both are different.

Clare on Sunday had no problem scoring when 2 points down but they could not get an equalise in the last 10 minutes.

eh.. Mayo beat a Dublin team in 2012 that included Cluxton, Cian O'Sullivan; James McCarthy, Flynn, MDMA, Kilkenny, Connolly and Brogan.

As for the game this Sunday, the bad weather that's promised will definitely suit Galway and I think it will be closer than expected. At the same time though, Galway are 11/2 for a reason and it's hard to make a case for them having enough to actually win it. 

A lot of people claiming that Mayo should have adopted a sweeper but it's very hard to change to a defensive system when you have been playing an attacking brand of football in all of the games prior to the final. I think that we had to take them on in a shootout, the problem was that we could win very little primary possession around the middle.

The fact that we lost the game by only 2 points with at most 40% possession tells it's own story. I wouldn't blame management tactically but they do have to ship some of the blame for for not changing the restart strategy sooner. The amount of Kildare scores that came directly from Mayo kickouts was criminal and you can't expect to win an All-Ireland when that's going on.

All in all though, a very positive campaign considering there wasn't much hope for this group at the start of the year. I'd expect to see O Donoghue, Diskin, Colm Moran and maybe Flynn (if he can get his head right) introduced to the senior panel next year. Tommy Conroy has another year under 20 but he's another to watch down the line.

I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.

True. The evidence shows us that there has never been more of an interest in intercounty football. There has however been a decline in interest in the provincial championships. A quick look at last years attendances shows this.

Quarter final double header 1- 82,000 sell out.
Quarter final double header 2- 65,746

Semi Final- Dublin v Tyrone-82,000 sell out
Semi Final-Mayo v Kerry-66,195
Replay-53,032

I remember going to the Mayo v Kerry Semi final in 96 and they didn't even manage to get 30,000 through the gates.