Messages

What is your solution? Division 4 gets no supporters but the same teams won't have many come championship, They might if they have a chance of winning something.

The solution is the rewards.

Automatic inclusion in the AI series next season regardless of Divisional status.
Replace Minors as undercard on AI final day.
When giving TV rights, Semi-finals and finals must be covered live as part of the Package.
Call the competition The All Ireland Tailteann Cup
Give the winners a Holiday tour.

I almost agree entirely, the only tweak I would suggest is that instead of guaranteeing a spot in the following year's all Ireland, give the winners automatic promotion to division 2.
It will need 3 teams to be relegated, but sure that spices up d2 even more!! If the winner comes from d.4 then 3rd bottom in d3 drops down. D3/4 teams losing provincial finals can opt into tailteann or Sam, whichever suits.
It's a real incentive and there's little chance we wouldn't have a competition being taken seriously by most entrants.

[Donegal great Martin McHugh claims Gaelic football is at a concerning "crossroads", with defensive tactics ruining the enjoyment of the game for "98% or 99%" of people.The 1992 All-Ireland winner said he is particularly "fearful" for club football" which he reckons is "terrible in all counties, not just Ulster".McHugh, father of current Donegal star Ryan, was speaking at the launch of the Allianz Football League just hours after watching Letterkenny IT beat UCD by 0-7 to 0-6 in a Sigerson Cup arm wrestle on Tuesday evening.He was aghast that, in perfect conditions, the score was just 0-2 to 0-1 at half-time, while he said the second half of the recent Donegal-Derry McKenna Cup semi-final almost put him to sleep.McHugh believes one particular rule change is badly needed to help rescue the game: That teams must keep at least three attackers high up the pitch at all times."I think clubs are following county football and I think club football, really, it's terrible to watch and I've watched a lot of club football," said McHugh. "They're trying to copy the county teams and they're not capable of doing it because they haven't got the players to do it."So I think definitely, Gaelic football, if people are going to be paying money in to watch it, or paying money to watch streaming and everything else, it's at a crossroads."I've been talking to people about this, they're going to have to take in a rule that we keep three players up the field at all times."Now people say about not [allowing] kicking the ball back, maybe that will come into it and I would also take away the forward mark and I would have it that each team would have to keep three players up the field at all times."I think we need that in Gaelic football at the minute because it's not a great spectacle. If you're big into tactics and big into that, you may enjoy it... 1% will study all that end of it, the other 98% or 99% just go for enjoyment."We want to see goals, we want to see enjoyment. That definitely has gone out of Gaelic football at the minute."McHugh, father of 2012 All-Ireland winner Mark, isn't convinced the players even enjoy the way the game is being played."Maybe the players will tell you they do enjoy it, I don't know, I find it hard to think that they are enjoying the way football is at the minute," he said."Gaelic football, to me, seems to have gone, tactically, that you stop the good player and let the so-called weaker players have the ball all the time, let them have the ball."If you're not going to see our good players playing football then we have to, from a rules point of view, take in something that's going to help our good players to shine."McHugh, who managed Cavan to Ulster success in 1997, feels the game is moving towards a version of rugby league."I'm very fearful for club football because I've been at a lot of club games; club football is terrible in all counties, not just Ulster, in all counties," said the pundit."It's copying inter-county football and they're not capable of doing it and it makes for a terrible spectacle."Speaking about Letterkenny IT's surprise win over UCD in Convoy on Tuesday evening, which secured a Sigerson Cup quarter-final spot, McHugh said it was a difficult watch."We had 40 basically inter-county players playing a game on a perfect night, on a perfect pitch, everything perfect, and the game ended seven points to six," he sighed."I think it was two points to one at half-time. In the second half of the Derry-Donegal game in the McKenna Cup, you could have went to sleep. That's just the way football is. People say it's going like rugby league; it definitely is the way it's being played."."]

Donegal great Martin McHugh claims Gaelic football is at a concerning "crossroads", with defensive tactics ruining the enjoyment of the game for "98% or 99%" of people.

The 1992 All-Ireland winner said he is particularly "fearful" for club football" which he reckons is "terrible in all counties, not just Ulster".

McHugh, father of current Donegal star Ryan, was speaking at the launch of the Allianz Football League just hours after watching Letterkenny IT beat UCD by 0-7 to 0-6 in a Sigerson Cup arm wrestle on Tuesday evening.

He was aghast that, in perfect conditions, the score was just 0-2 to 0-1 at half-time, while he said the second half of the recent Donegal-Derry McKenna Cup semi-final almost put him to sleep.

McHugh believes one particular rule change is badly needed to help rescue the game: That teams must keep at least three attackers high up the pitch at all times.

"I think clubs are following county football and I think club football, really, it's terrible to watch and I've watched a lot of club football," said McHugh. "They're trying to copy the county teams and they're not capable of doing it because they haven't got the players to do it.

"So I think definitely, Gaelic football, if people are going to be paying money in to watch it, or paying money to watch streaming and everything else, it's at a crossroads.

"I've been talking to people about this, they're going to have to take in a rule that we keep three players up the field at all times.

"Now people say about not [allowing] kicking the ball back, maybe that will come into it and I would also take away the forward mark and I would have it that each team would have to keep three players up the field at all times.

"I think we need that in Gaelic football at the minute because it's not a great spectacle. If you're big into tactics and big into that, you may enjoy it... 1% will study all that end of it, the other 98% or 99% just go for enjoyment.

"We want to see goals, we want to see enjoyment. That definitely has gone out of Gaelic football at the minute."

McHugh, father of 2012 All-Ireland winner Mark, isn't convinced the players even enjoy the way the game is being played.

"Maybe the players will tell you they do enjoy it, I don't know, I find it hard to think that they are enjoying the way football is at the minute," he said.

"Gaelic football, to me, seems to have gone, tactically, that you stop the good player and let the so-called weaker players have the ball all the time, let them have the ball.

"If you're not going to see our good players playing football then we have to, from a rules point of view, take in something that's going to help our good players to shine."

McHugh, who managed Cavan to Ulster success in 1997, feels the game is moving towards a version of rugby league.

"I'm very fearful for club football because I've been at a lot of club games; club football is terrible in all counties, not just Ulster, in all counties," said the pundit.

"It's copying inter-county football and they're not capable of doing it and it makes for a terrible spectacle."

Speaking about Letterkenny IT's surprise win over UCD in Convoy on Tuesday evening, which secured a Sigerson Cup quarter-final spot, McHugh said it was a difficult watch.

"We had 40 basically inter-county players playing a game on a perfect night, on a perfect pitch, everything perfect, and the game ended seven points to six," he sighed.

"I think it was two points to one at half-time. In the second half of the Derry-Donegal game in the McKenna Cup, you could have went to sleep. That's just the way football is. People say it's going like rugby league; it definitely is the way it's being played."
."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40794108.html

I have to say I agree completely.  What surprises me is how few people seem to agree, I know this board isn't necessarily representative of the 98% and may be more aligned with the 1% who find it tactically intriguing (and I can see that too at high level intercounty - but it may be the intensity and athleticism of what's on show disguises the offering at times), but is there anything less watchable than what would be decent club teams cancelling each other?
Two teams thinking they can play Dublin style 'keep-ball' (a curse on the game at any level tbh), giving defences time to set up etc... 
McHugh gives some examples, and he's right, it's not just Ulster, it's everywhere, the Dublin county final being another fine example.  I saw a few other Dublin club games this year, same thing, teams (with healthy sprinklings of all ireland medals) cancelling each other, defending en-masse and taking their frees. 

Even for young players, I know a number of young lads who are on underage development squads, tactics are very much part of the offering, remove spontaneity, protect possession, play to the gameplan - it really takes the fun out of it for them.  Yes, the possibility of pulling on a county jersey in championship keeps them there, but there's little enjoyment - and this for the 15, 16 and 17yo.

As a starting point, what is the consensus on here, do we need changes?  Do people find much of what is on view appealing to watch?  Or do many still hold the view that our game is fine and what we need is for people to stop tinkering with the rules?
Indeed, am I now the old lad who pined for the catch and kick game of the 50's, who I used to decry as being out of touch when I kicked ball 20 odd years ago??

I'm not sure what the answer is, but anything is worth trying in my opinion, 3 men always up is a start, I would also consider not allowing teams to go back over their own half way line again, keeping keepers inside their own 45 (no more free kicks - or at worst giving 30 secs to take a free from the moment of awarding it).  The forward mark seemed like a good idea, but was flawed in definition which allowed people to take advantage of it with short passes into the chest, so time to get rid I think.

New proposals seem very much under the radar

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1217/1267450-task-force-proposals-to-be-circulated-to-counties/

Not too inspiring from what i saw elsewhere. Heard cork co.
chairman on newstalk, his proposal was Proposal B, with 2 league pts awarded to to the winners of the provincial championships which was the 'link' to keep tyem relevant. I much prefer my proposals😁

[u8]

Derrygonnelly completely deserved that. Fair play to Clann Eireann. It's great to see their years of hard work paying off. I remember attending an u8 training session in 2004 or 2005 with my brother and nephew. I remember being told at that session that my nephew would only likely play for the B team at underage because they were building a team to win the Armagh Championship by 2020 and the All Ireland by 2025. Whilst they may or may not meet those goals they have fairly given it a rattle.

What a ludicrous thing to say to an 8 year old.  Few things get me more rattled than that type of shite.

Poland were 75/1 for euro 2020/1 while argentina were 2/1 for the copa.
Jorghino 3rd - an damming indictment of a disappointing few years from a lot of young talent.

Just simplify it to
4 Provincial Champions
Last years Tailteann winner
11 highest placed NFL teams.

I agree it looks complicated, so thanks to anyine who eben resd it! I suppose the issue with your proposal is that the provincial champions are likely to be in the top 11 league teams, plus i kind of like the incentive for lesser teams to be rewarded for progessing, i acknowledge it's easier to do that in some provinces than others and a munster semi defeat might well get you a spot in the play-in round, but i suppose it's the weaknesses of my proposal that I'm interested in hearing about.

It's interesting. I'd like to see it set out with a calendar/dates. Any proposal that doesn't allow a decent club season is of no interest to me.

Impact on club games should be limited, it only has one round of games in addition to what was in proposal b, ie the 'play-in' round. If needs be, teams could play them midweek, maybe a thurs/fri before a hurling weekend or whatever. Essentially, given the prize, teams should be willing to accommodate whatever is needed to ensure it fits within the condensed calendar.

Is that you, Jim ?

Rumbled! Nah, not quite, i wouldn't know my blanket from a duvet!
I do recall being impressed by a jim proposal a few years ago, did i unconsciously steal his?

[Objective]

Folks, it's that time of year again - people with too much time on their hands sit down and draw up their championship proposals!

For what it's worth, here's mine.  Like many on here I guess I followed the Proposal B debate pretty closely and with much interest.  I could probably have lived with it, but it had some pretty major flaws in my opinion, none more so than the relegation of provincial championships to pre-season status.  For that reason my proposal provides a strong incentive to take provincials seriously, but ultimately, allows for the primacy of the league competition.
So have a look and let me know your thoughts - but go easy, please!!

Objective
Address pressing concern about loss of prestige in provincial championships and ensure a healthy level of interest from supporters, players and management for provincial championships.
Remove objections around the 6th place D1 team not progressing.
Ensure fewer potential dead rubber games in latter rounds of league.
Reward Tailteann Cup winners

Proposal

Move forward with Proposal B, largely as presented.

Add a 'play-in' round which will allow for a link between provincial championships and the new All Ireland championship.

Design of All Ireland Championship
•   Top 3 teams in Div 1 qualify for All Ireland quarter finals.
•   Top team in Div 2 qualifies for All Ireland quarter final.
•   Teams 4, 5 and 6 in Div 1 qualify for All Ireland quarter final play-off.
•   Team 2 in Div 2 qualifies for All Ireland quarter final play-off.
•   Tailteann Cup winners previous year qualifies for All Ireland quarter final play-off.
•      Div 3 and Div 4 winners qualify for 'play-in' game.
•   Highest ranked/furthest progressing team in each province who does not qualify via league placing qualifies for 'play-in' round.

Play-In round

Game A - Div 3 winners v Div 4 winner
Game B - Ulster championship qualifier v Munster championship qualifier
Game C - Leinster championship qualifier v Connacht championship qualifier.

Quarter Final Play-offs

Game 1: Game A winner v 2nd placed Div 2
Game 2: Game B winner v 5th Div 1
Game 3: Game C winner v 6th Div 1
Game 4: Tailteann Cup winners previous year v 4th Div 1

Quarter Finals

QF1: 1st Div 1 v Game 1 winner
QF2: 2nd Div 1 v Game 3 winner
QF3: 3rd Div 1 v Game 2 winner
QF4: Game 4 winner v Div 2 winner

Semi Finals
1 v 4
2 v 3

To my mind my design gives the following benefits:

•   Ensures interest in provincial championships as there is a genuine incentive available for the furthest progressing team.
•   Addresses the issue whereby 6th placed team in Div 1 is eliminated from the championship.
•   Every team has 2 potential routes to qualify – there's no real excuse for those who don't make it.
•   The furthest progressing team in each provincial championship who does not qualify via the league cannot be known until the league has concluded.
•   The primacy of the league vs the provincial structure is retained as a top 3 Div 1 or 1st Div 2 finish guarantees an All-Ireland quarter final, whereas even a provincial title will only guarantee a 'play-in' game, 2 rounds before an All-Ireland quarter final.
•      Provides a strong incentive to win Tailteann Cup.

I know it's long, but hopefully a few of ye will have the time to read it, hope it's understandable and thoughts welcome.