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Fergie got rid of McGrath and Whiteside due to the drinking, but not Robson.

McGrath proved him wrong though, going on to play fantastic stuff for the guts of a decade afterwards. Even with the dodgy knees.

Fergie was told that McGrath was on the verge of forced retirement when he took over but won league player of the year the following year. Reading McGraths book Graham Taylor saved his career, gave us the Italia 90 McGrath. His career dipped after that because Taylor took the England job. We only remember the good points at the world cups etc. Fantastic footballer, cleaning out Baggio in USA 94 is highlight for me, one of the best players Ireland have produced.

Fergie offered McGrath a lump sum to retire. McGrath wanted to play on despite his knees. He won POTY in 1993. That was long after Taylor left. He was still playing well up until he left Villa, in 1997 I think.

I honestly think Fergie didn't want McGrath to go to another club. He wanted him retired. He knew he was a fine player and it would've been a dent to Fergie's ego if he left and played really well for another club, which McGrath did. And by proving Fergie wrong (which McGrath said he wanted to do), it made Fergie's decision to let him go, a bad one.

I had it in my head he won POTY in 89 for some reason. Must read his book again. When you think about it Robbo was finished by 92 realistically and McGrath was still going well after it. I'm not saying Fergie was right btw. The same man thought he could have kept Gazza right but let McGrath go.

I've heard others say maybe Fergie could have handled Gazza, but never heard Fergie say it himself.

Robson was only a bit-part player from the start 92/93, definitely on the wane.

It was in his first book. Not that he would have saved him, but the move to London wasn't the wisest for Gazza and in Utd they could have controlled that better. To be fair at the time of that book going out people didn't realise the extent of Gazza's problems

I think there are/were a lot of parallels with Rooney and Gazza. I think it's certainly possible that Fergie would have helped him realise his potential.

He would have been coming in as Utd were on the rise and prob wouldn't have ended up in Italy but god knows. Rooney was a natural talent from a working class background that peaked early but he hasn't the deep seeded issues Gazza has. Fergie would have tried better to control him than Spurs did. He said the deal was done and Spurs landed in and bought Gazza's ma a house to get the deal done.

Fergie got rid of McGrath and Whiteside due to the drinking, but not Robson.

McGrath proved him wrong though, going on to play fantastic stuff for the guts of a decade afterwards. Even with the dodgy knees.

Fergie was told that McGrath was on the verge of forced retirement when he took over but won league player of the year the following year. Reading McGraths book Graham Taylor saved his career, gave us the Italia 90 McGrath. His career dipped after that because Taylor took the England job. We only remember the good points at the world cups etc. Fantastic footballer, cleaning out Baggio in USA 94 is highlight for me, one of the best players Ireland have produced.

Fergie offered McGrath a lump sum to retire. McGrath wanted to play on despite his knees. He won POTY in 1993. That was long after Taylor left. He was still playing well up until he left Villa, in 1997 I think.

I honestly think Fergie didn't want McGrath to go to another club. He wanted him retired. He knew he was a fine player and it would've been a dent to Fergie's ego if he left and played really well for another club, which McGrath did. And by proving Fergie wrong (which McGrath said he wanted to do), it made Fergie's decision to let him go, a bad one.

I had it in my head he won POTY in 89 for some reason. Must read his book again. When you think about it Robbo was finished by 92 realistically and McGrath was still going well after it. I'm not saying Fergie was right btw. The same man thought he could have kept Gazza right but let McGrath go.

I've heard others say maybe Fergie could have handled Gazza, but never heard Fergie say it himself.

Robson was only a bit-part player from the start 92/93, definitely on the wane.

It was in his first book. Not that he would have saved him, but the move to London wasn't the wisest for Gazza and in Utd they could have controlled that better. To be fair at the time of that book going out people didn't realise the extent of Gazza's problems

Fergie got rid of McGrath and Whiteside due to the drinking, but not Robson.

McGrath proved him wrong though, going on to play fantastic stuff for the guts of a decade afterwards. Even with the dodgy knees.

Fergie was told that McGrath was on the verge of forced retirement when he took over but won league player of the year the following year. Reading McGraths book Graham Taylor saved his career, gave us the Italia 90 McGrath. His career dipped after that because Taylor took the England job. We only remember the good points at the world cups etc. Fantastic footballer, cleaning out Baggio in USA 94 is highlight for me, one of the best players Ireland have produced.

Fergie offered McGrath a lump sum to retire. McGrath wanted to play on despite his knees. He won POTY in 1993. That was long after Taylor left. He was still playing well up until he left Villa, in 1997 I think.

I honestly think Fergie didn't want McGrath to go to another club. He wanted him retired. He knew he was a fine player and it would've been a dent to Fergie's ego if he left and played really well for another club, which McGrath did. And by proving Fergie wrong (which McGrath said he wanted to do), it made Fergie's decision to let him go, a bad one.

I had it in my head he won POTY in 89 for some reason. Must read his book again. When you think about it Robbo was finished by 92 realistically and McGrath was still going well after it. I'm not saying Fergie was right btw. The same man thought he could have kept Gazza right but let McGrath go.

Fergie got rid of McGrath and Whiteside due to the drinking, but not Robson.

McGrath proved him wrong though, going on to play fantastic stuff for the guts of a decade afterwards. Even with the dodgy knees.

Fergie was told that McGrath was on the verge of forced retirement when he took over but won league player of the year the following year. Reading McGraths book Graham Taylor saved his career, gave us the Italia 90 McGrath. His career dipped after that because Taylor took the England job. We only remember the good points at the world cups etc. Fantastic footballer, cleaning out Baggio in USA 94 is highlight for me, one of the best players Ireland have produced.

11 years ago today


Full of leaders on and off the field back then the opposite of now.

John O'Shea at that point was very much a bit part player. A 2008 version of JOS today is a better right back than Young, better centre half than Jones, Smalling and Rojo and probably a better left back than Shaw (still might be a player there but not convinced). The defenders Utd had at that point were on a different level to most squads - never mind the forwards they had that year

If Armagh's GK no 2 got injured last week, I don't see the issue with an outfielder as sub GK. the odds are that the sub GK is rarely needed.

Having said that, Down sub GK looked in trouble. If he had to go off, would Down have been criticised for not having a no 3 GK?

Don't Cluxton and Niall Morgan play outfield for their clubs

Down sub keeper was nervous and ropey AF ...hoofing every kickout straight up in the air old school style....made for a better spectacle!!

Anytime i played id have wanted to face a wee goalkeeper. In my team i wanted a huge keeper, Paul Hearty style. Armagh keeper looks like a minor. Totally see the justification in putting a big man in there, whether he plays out the field for his club or not

Armagh  shouldve pushed up when Mooney sent off...not deploy a 2nd, do nothing, sweeper. Dwon just brought the ball in and then kicked it over the keeper. How Down (and Armagh) didnt kick more long balls in i'll never know. 1st 2 long balls for Down resulted in Harrison point and Havern goal....then they just stopped. Madness

A small keeper will always be crucified if a goal goes in from a high ball situation. But Beggan has been caught out a few times with it in the last few years too and there's not much said about it. Full backs aren't as good as dealing with it as they used to be either and keepers have to deal with less of it in todays game. Nothing worse than if you are coming out to take a high ball and the full back stands looking at you. The least they should do is keep the man out or make it difficult for them to get on top of the keeper. The Murnin goal was bad work from both the full back at the time (he's not a full back to be fair to him) and the keeper.

To be fair to the Down sub keeper that was a nightmare situation for him to come in there on the back of black card. I'm all on for keepers getting more involved in the game helping to keep possession at the back and helping out defenders under pressure but you shouldn't be out near the middle of the pitch unless the other team has completely dropped back. Its just too high risk in most cases for most keepers

So haven't managed to watch any GoT's at all. But gave in and ordered the book set there for Holidays as I'll struggle to get the time to watch all the series (Translation -. Are the books as good as the hype for the TV series?

I think the books are very good but there is a lot of detail to take in, especially as you get through the latter ones. It's well written but it does depend what you're into. I found the books much easier to read than say Lord of the Rings. I started reading after watching season 1 way back so had some images in my head of people and places which helped at first but you definitely don't need it. Just think Sean Bean for Ned Stark but everyone else you can fill in yourself.

[Would have to wonder why Young continues to get starts when performing so poorly]

Read somewhere today that 4 of the back 5 for United last night started when United were eliminated by Basle from the group stages in 2011. Jones and Young were in midfield mind you.....

Would have to wonder why Young continues to get starts when performing so poorly? last night Lindelof United's best and most consistent defender was moved to full back to accommodate Jones at centre back. Worst part is Jones,Smalling aren't going anywhere as both were given long term contracts this season and Young was given a one year extension to his contract. Bailly has fell out of favour and will likely be sold this summer and i wouldn't be surprised if he goes on to excel elsewhere like Blind has done with Ajax.

Pogba was playing well for the first few months under Ole but it seems his head is turned with transfer news since then, he's not leader or a player you build your team around and needs a team to be performing well to get the best out of him. I think the board allowing DeGea's contract run down has played a big part in his poor form this season and he can go for free at end of next season so the board of business men could well cash in this summer.

As you said earlier it's going to take more than one transfer window to sort out the problems and still no sign of a badly needed director of football.

I see this as the one issue I have with Ole at the minute. If Young steps out as captain next season he'll be ridiculed, and rightly so. I thought when he give Feilini the boot he had the number of the tubes in the squad but he seems to be turning a blind eye to Young.

It could take more than 2 seasons to catch up to where United should be, even assuming Ole is successful. Some utd supporters have a unrealistic way of looking at things. It took Klopp a few seasons to get Liverpool where they are, even Pep had a bad season to start with. Even with the right signings in the summer it could take a while to catch up with Liverpool and City. Your only hope is Pep gets fed up with City and fecks off. Liverpool could still struggle to hold on to Mane and Salah but I think they're up there to stay.

People saying they should get rid of De Gea and Pogba don't seem to understand the rebuilding that already needs to be done without losing them. I saw a list of keepers on here earlier that people think are better than De Gea and only Obalak would be realistically available out of them and he could cost up on £100M on his own. Both players need to up their performances but I'd still rather keep them. DDG really should have some credit in the bank with fans.

They need to get rid of a lot of players but that'll not happen over one summer either. They're all being over paid so clubs at their level don't want anything to do with them.

Lads, United are not that far away at all. Get rid of Young, maybe Matic, and add a bit of depth around the squad for midfield and the wide positions. 11 on 11, United have a very decent team.

Amen.. There's always a hysterical overreaction both good and bad to United performances

The only worry I'd have is that Solskjaers promising start will seduce the owners into thinking that major investment isn't needed.

That's the silver lining on last night's painful cloud. It's clear investment is needed.

And you're right - terrible overreaction to last night but that's the world we live in. Several of the players are adequate squad players but United need a few more top players as starters to compliment hwat's there already. The squad is big but there are too many "squad players" and not enough top line players. Makes rotation almost impossible, or extremely risky.

Agree with all the above, United just need a bit more quality in a few more areas but aren't a million miles away from the top teams. PSG have been knocking on the door for several years too and accumulated a lot of experience through many painful defeats.

Sanchez looks finished but its going to be difficult to get rid of him given his wages; Lukaku won't be happy playing second fiddle to Rashford, I think he'll look for a move this summer judging by the type of character I think he has.

I think most United fans would be in agreement with most or all of this. The over reaction always comes from outside and that is just the nature of being the club they are.

To be fair I thought Matic in the early stages of the game looked as sharp as he has ever done in a United shirt, he did fade though. OGS does not appear to be anyone's fool so he will be aware of the limitations of the squad and will have a plan as to who and where to strengthen. It will be up to the board to decide whether he is the man to take them forward.

I agree with most of above. I think OGS will get the job full time unless the wheels come off badly in the next 2 months. Squad wise i'd say there's 2 positions in urgent need of addressing - centre half and a right back. Upfront I think there'll be changes with Sanchez and Lukaku (and Mata) not fitting the OGS way of playing - will one or all be offloaded at a loss to reduce the wage bill and bring another in as well as maybe some youth players (next year could be too early for them). They're definitely a man short in midfield too but it depends if Fred is out or given a chance to redeem himself after a very poor start.

Even with the defeat it felt better than if we had of had Feilini and McTominay in midfield. Onwards and upwards

I would have voted SF in the past. But they have done nothing for anyone in the last few years.
If The SDLP had Claire Hanna as a leader then they may well start to make gains. Joining with FF i think is not the answer.
Sf sit back while health education etc is collapsing around them all just to get one over the DUP. Its fine for mary lou she has no family in the North. I live in Dublin now but i see with elderly parents what the outcome of this sf dup stand off is. Its time for a change from both sides.

I think the SDLP still have a few decent politicians out there but the damage done by the years of Dr Death (McDonnell) and Ritchie leaves them way back. Hanna is one and I don't think Eastwood is that bad. They have made out to be west brits by SF now and the fact that they were seen to have delivered nothing in the years they had the majority has left them on the outside.

Will SF be accused of the same in future years - Stormont as good as closed down for the foreseeable future with the Brexit issues and there is a genuine threat of a border in Ireland again. SF didn't cause that but they were in the front seat during it.

Pin stripe jersey gone.

You can see where they have tucked/nipped the jersey at the back. There's a bit sticking out. Mustn't have made the player fit ones yet

At what age did you go to your first GAA match ? 7 or 8

Who played in the match? Annaclone v St Johns I think

Do you remember anything about it ? I remember my cousin playing but not a lot else. I would of been at a few camogie matches around the time with the sister playing

Who were the main figures involved in introducing you to the GAA ? Family - prob my sister more than the rest

What was your first match in Croke Park ?  91 semi final v Kerry

Who were the first GAA players you were aware of ? County wise it would be James McCartan & Ambrose that I remember first.

Is anyone else in your family as interested in GAA as you are ? Yes

Did your indoctrination involve any bad-mouthing of soccer  or was it more ecumenical ? Not really - there was no soccer teams anywhere near us so it was never a threat

Just listening to the wooly podcast and they talked about the ban handed out up here. They read out that all senior teams have been suspended - does that mean they're out of reserve championship too or a complete ban next year as in league and all? Haven't seen anything official yet.

On reflection, the ban fro next year's championship is quite lenient. Neither team would be serious contenders, nor be expected to progress far. With the back door, it's a loss of 2-3 games at most

There was a rumour floating around at one stage they were going to get a full senior team ban from league and everything. Probably thought it wouldn't stick though

On a lighter note. Congtatulations to our Minor hurlers who won the championship yesterday for the first time in our history. Now the hard bit, keeping these players together and challange for senior titles in years to come. I know it doesnt work like that, but those have to be out aspirations. Think small, stay small

Congrats to the Bredagh hurlers and importantly the coaches who've put in the hours with those lads.

As you say getting them to senior hurling is the next big trick but hopefully the U21 competition will keep their interests going over the winter months when they can drift off never to be seen again.

This only the second time a team from outside the Ards has won the MHC?

Possibly,
Carryduff won it a four or five years back, don't think Liatroim managed it even though they come close and possibly should have beaten our lads in the Marshes two years ago but lost the plot at the end when cool heads were needed.
Kilclief and AnRiocht got to finals back in the day as well.

Carryduff didn't build on their win and aren't competing in underage hurling at any level but have a decent enough U12 outfit.

Bredagh are competitive all the way down and considering they won 4 feiles on the bounce and this is the only Minor they've to show for that domination they really need to blood these lads into adult hurling ASAP.
They'll be strong enough again next year as well though.

I played in MHC final for a Ballyvarley/Ballela mix loosing to Ballycran by the odd score about 15 years ago. We had an awesome team back then.

That's the problem with hurling in Down in a nutshell right there.

Every once in a while the likes of Liatroim, Ballela, Ballyvarley, CPN, Clonduff, Carrduff, Castlewellan. Shamrocks will come along with a strong underage team as good as anything in the Ards but then nothing behind it for eons to sustain a proper rip at senior hurling and then just dip in between intermediate and Junior at best.

Liatroim have a good nucleus of young hurlers in Adult hurling which got them into the Ulster Intermediate club championship but didn't field at minor or U16 at all this year, didn't turn up for an U14 championship semi-final against a very dominant Portaferry who've been putting 20 to 30 points on everyone at this grade, but not turning up doesn't set a good example to those young lads that giving up is an option.

It will be interesting to see if they play senior championship next year as they should do as Senior club hurling in the Ards is no big shakes at the minute.

From what I heard that is their plan - whether it works out or not is a different thing.

The hurling clubs outside of the Ards struggle for the same reasons as a rule - numbers. Bredagh and Carryduff don't have that issue and there seems to be some really good hurling men involved there. When I started playing junior hurling 20 odd years ago there was teams in Drumaness, Rostrevor, Darragh Cross and Downpatrick to name a few and they're all gone. Most of the clubs left depend on picking up players from neighbouring football clubs. When I played underage hurling Ballela would have had players from Annaclone and Banbridge, Ballyvarley had fellas from Tullylish and Glenn, even Liatroim had a crowd of Kilcoo lads and some from St Johns. The problem with that is holding on to them after underage level. It's like double drop out levels. It's very hard to play for 2 clubs at senior level hurling and football. I did it for a while but it takes a bit of work to keep both happy.