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You get the politicians you deserve

Just landed in Perth a week ago,

anyone know if there is much of a gaa scene in WA

You're taking the warm weather training serious.....will we see you togged out for the dirt , Ogs again?

Are you goning to copy and paste the whole BBC News site?

Your English is really improving

You really got me there. 

This is the BBC article giving the number dead as 37

Baghdad church hostage drama ends in bloodbath
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AdvertisementThe BBC's Jim Muir in Baghdad says that the full death toll remains unclear
At least 37 people have been killed as Iraqi security forces stormed a Catholic church in central Baghdad to free dozens of hostages being held by gunmen there, security sources say.

A priest, seven members of Iraqi security forces and five attackers were said to be among the dead but officials said most hostages were rescued.

About 100 people had been inside Our Lady of Salvation for an evening Mass.

The gunmen had reportedly demanded the release of jailed al-Qaeda militants.

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The local TV station, al-Baghdadiya, said it had received a phone call from someone claiming to be one of the attackers, who said they were from the Islamic State of Iraq, a Sunni militant umbrella group to which al-Qaeda in Iraq belongs.

Reports said the attackers were not Iraqis, but foreign Arabs.

'Worshippers beaten'

Residents of Baghdad's Karada district, where the attack took place, first heard a loud explosion at about 1700 (1400 GMT) on Sunday, followed by gunfire.

Police said a group of armed men began by attacking the Iraq Stock Exchange building, and then took over the Catholic church just across the road, clashing with guards and killing some of them.

It seems the church was the attackers' real target, says the BBC's Jim Muir in Baghdad.


This file photo shows the inside of the Our Lady of Salvation church One eyewitness, who was inside the church, said the gunmen "came into the prayer hall and immediately killed the priest". The witness, who declined to give his name, said worshippers were beaten and herded into an inner hall.

There was a long stand-off as security forces surrounded the building with helicopters hovering overhead.

The militants made contact with the authorities by mobile phone, demanding the release of al-Qaeda prisoners and also of a number of Muslim women they insisted were being held prisoner by the Coptic Church in Egypt.

But the discussions got nowhere, our correspondent says, and the security forces stormed the church.

Witnesses nearby said they then heard two explosions from inside the church and more shooting. The gunmen reportedly threw grenades and detonated their suicide vests.

As well as those killed, some 56 people were wounded in the battle, police sources said.

'Impossible to wait'

The Iraqi defence minister, Abdul-Qadr al-Obeidi, said security forces approached the building at ground level and from the air.

"We took a decision to launch a land offensive, and in addition an airdrop, because it was impossible to wait - the terrorists were planning to kill a large number of our brothers, the Christians who were at Mass.

"So the operation was successfully done. All terrorists were killed. And we now have other suspects in detention," Mr Obeidi said.

Witnesses say they saw US troops on the ground and US military helicopters hovering above the scene, but the extent of their involvement is not yet clear.

Many churches have been bombed in recent years - including Our Lady of Salvation in August 2004 - and priests kidnapped and killed, but there has never been a prolonged hostage situation like this before, our correspondent says.

There are about 1.5 million Christians from ancient denominations in Iraq.

Iraqi Christians have been leaving the country in droves since the US-led invasion in 2003.

Are you goning to copy and paste the whole BBC News site?

Your English is really improving

Hostages die in Iraq church siege



An Iraqi policeman stands guard near the church in Baghdad where 120 Iraqi Christians were held hostage
Islamic militants held around 120 Iraqi Christians hostage for nearly four hours in a church before security forces stormed the building and freed them, ending a stand-off that left many dead.

Security officials said the militants, allegedly linked to al Qaida in Iraq, were on the phone with Iraqi authorities demanding the release of imprisoned female fighters when the security forces attacked.

The stand-off began at dusk on Sunday when the militants attacked the nearby Iraqi stock exchange, officials said. Police then chased the insurgents toward the Our Lady of Deliverance Church - one of Baghdad's main Catholic places of worship.

Worshippers inside were listening to a bible reading when the gunmen burst in. It was reported that the assailants were wearing suicide vests and armed with grenades.

Parishioner Marzina Matti Yalda said: "As we went outside the hall to see what was happening, gunmen stormed the main gate and they started to shoot at us.

"Many people fell down, including a priest, while some of us ran inside and took shelter in a locked room. We were packed together as we waited for the security forces to arrive."

US Army spokesman, Lt Col Eric Bloom said at least 19 people were killed - seven hostages, seven Iraqi security troops and five militants. As many as 30 people were wounded, including a priest and a nun, he said.

Iraqi military officials said the death toll was at least nine, while police and medical officials put it as high as 37. There were also conflicting reports about the militants' fate.

An Iraqi police official put the number of insurgents at 10 and said all were captured, while the US military said between five and seven attackers died. Baghdad military spokesman Maj Gen Qassim al-Moussawi said security forces killed eight attackers.

Iraqi defence minister Abdul-Qadir al-Obeidi said "the terrorists were planning to murder the highest number of hostages". Across Iraq, security forces were alerted to new threats against Christians.

Gunfire at the border....maybe going to kick off.

Isn't that a normal occurance there.

I don't think they normally shoot at each other.....hopefully it's nothing. 

Gunfire at the border....maybe going to kick off.

[how to go back in time]

You just beat me by 10secs on the topic, just deleted but heres my thoughts...

In the above video, it looks compelling but scienctists havent figured how to go back in time, only go forward. what do ye reckon, what is it if its not a mobile phone, i think we can rule out mobiles as there would be no coverage? Maybe a music device but even still way ahead of its time..

Time travel that is possible>

I recently watched Discovery channel and hawkins and time travel into the future is possible, its actally quite clever, but te technology isnt there for humans yet, it was proved in the that black hole tunnel in geneva. For humans it would work this way, if we travelled at the speed of light.

So there example was if a mono rail was built around the earth, and humans were on a train going around the earth at the speed of light, what would be a week for the humans on the train would be 100yrs for the earth. So when you got off the train it would be a futuristic earth. It would be the same for humans and space travel, if we travelled at speed of light we would slow time down for those on the space ship etc...

Now the big if is how humans can survive the speed of light and thats not figure out yet nor is a vehicle that can go that fast. I always wanted to live in the star wars universe but doubt technology will go forward that much.

Ever been to Portadown....it's a black hole and they still think it is 1690

Baldy b**tard is tough to remedy.

I prefer "follicly challenged".....used to have a head on me like Morrissey.....now I'm like a cue ball

American Pie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr-BYVeCv6U&feature=related

Bohemian Rhapsody...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI

Can't understand how she was overlooked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpy_pYXSpPA

How could they forget Ireland's greatest....Terry.....no not Wogan....but Phelan

[Netanyahu gave no evidence to support his claim, and aides would not discuss details about the missiles.]

Israel says Hamas has anti-aircraft missiles
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: Oct 18, 2010 23:37 Updated: Oct 18, 2010 23:37

JERUSALEM: Gaza's Hamas rulers have obtained anti-aircraft missiles, Israel's prime minister said Monday, in a potentially game-changing development that could threaten the Israeli air force's ability to strike at the militant group.

Israeli aircraft have long dominated the skies over Gaza, striking suspected Hamas military installations and assassinating dozens of wanted militants. The Israeli air force played a key role in a fierce three-week offensive in Gaza early last year, which began with airstrikes that killed hundreds of Hamas fighters. The air raids also destroyed vast amounts of infrastructure and killed hundreds of civilians.

Speaking to his Likud Party, Netanyahu disclosed that Israel's aerial freedom has been compromised by the new weaponry, presumably smuggled into Gaza through tunnels connected to neighboring Egypt. He said any future peace agreement would have to include security arrangements to deal with the threat.

Israel believes that despite its military offensive and Egypt's stated goal of halting arms smuggling, Hamas has managed to restock its arsenal with longer-range missiles that can strike the heart of Israel.

Netanyahu's assessment was the first time an Israeli official has openly said Hamas also possesses anti-aircraft weaponry, though intelligence officials have privately suspected that was the case.

"The security problem is not just the new rockets that will enter the area and will threaten city centers. I don't know if you know this, but today we are struggling to fly near Gaza because they have anti-aircraft missiles there," Netanyahu said.

He warned that the missiles could also threaten air traffic at Israel's international airport. "Israel's security needs are real, the solutions have to be real, not on paper. We need to find long-term solutions that give Israel security," he said.

Netanyahu gave no evidence to support his claim, and aides would not discuss details about the missiles.

The Israeli military refused to comment on Netanyahu's remarks.

Security officials said they have long assumed Hamas has smuggled in Russian-made Strela anti-aircraft missiles, presumably supplied by Iran. Some versions of the Strela are shoulder-fired and are designed to target planes, helicopters and drones at ranges of around two and a half miles, according to the military information website GlobalSecurity.org.

Hamas has yet to deploy the weapons, but Israeli pilots fly over Gaza with the assumption that the missiles are there, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity according to military protocol.

Hamas refused to say whether it has any anti-aircraft weapons and accused the Israeli leader of spreading propaganda to justify future attacks in Gaza.

"These remarks reflect the intention of the Zionist enemy to commit more crimes and more future aggression against our people, taking advantage of the American support and the Arab silence," said Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza.

"We emphasize that the Palestinian people have the right to defend themselves against any future aggression and this is a national and holy duty," he added.

Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said the militant group had learned its lessons from the last battle.

"If they want war, we are ready for it. But it will not be like the last war in 2009 in which we realized the strength and weakness of our enemy," he said.

Hamas has fired thousands of rockets and missiles into Israel in recent years, though it has largely refrained from attacks since Israel's offensive.

On Sunday, an Israeli airstrike killed two Gaza militants who Israel says were preparing to fire rockets over the Gaza border. The Israeli military said more than 165 rockets and mortar shells have been fired at Israel from Gaza so far this year, a significant drop from the numbers before the 2009 war.

Hamas is a not a party to the newly restarted Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, which are deadlocked over Israel's refusal to extend restrictions on Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank.

In a rare interview to an Israeli television station, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas appeared to make a significant gesture toward Israel. He said the Palestinians would be willing to end all historic claims against Israel if a Palestinian state is established on lands captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war: the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

Once the Palestinians have established their state inside the 1967 borders, "there is another important thing to end, the conflict, and we are ready for that, to end the historic demands," Abbas told Israel's Channel 1.

Though Abbas did not elaborate, this has typically alluded to the Palestinian demand for Palestinian refugees to have a right to return to their homelands inside what is now Israel.

Israel fears the Palestinians will press for refugee rights even after the creation of their state instead of settling in the future Palestine, thus undermining Israel's Jewish character.

Netanyahu said he heard Abbas' words, but preferred to have the conversation face-to-face.