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The oul "clumsy tackle" foul by forwards on defenders to prevent a quick counter attack is one of the most cynical going and us no doubtca tactic.
Refs seldom take any card action presumably as they don't want to slow proceedings and it's far away from goal.

Could we make a distinction between a "genuine" foul and a "cyncial" foul?  Any "cynical" foul coming out of your own half is automatically brought to midfield, or 30 yards forward (whichever is further.)  As I recall, there was a previous motion defeated to bring frees forward 30M for interference/dissent (or a distance like that.)  It probably won't solve a whole pile, but it is surely better. 

Referees need to be much more stringent on any form of interference of a free, and increasing the distance forward will help a little at least.  Once a free is given, any attempt to play the ball or the man should automatically be brought forward without any hesitation.  Say in the example of a "cynical" foul on the 13m line aimed at just stopping the play.  The ball is brought forward to midfield but the player continues to hold the player on the ground to not allow him to get the ball away for the free to be taken.  The ball is now moved from midfield a further 30 yards, which is  around 45.  Surely it acts as some form of deterrent?  I don't think this is a particularly big change, nor difficult to apply.  A "cynical" foul coming out of defence is any foul where the tackler fouls without trying to play the ball (rather than dragging down etc used for the black card.)   

There's an understandable trend in football (same in NFL btw) that the closer you get to the business end of the season, the more referees turn a blind eye to aggressive play. Basically red card offences become yellow card offences, black card offences tends to become yellow card offences, or ignored completely.

I don't mind this approach myself. Gaelic football is at its heart a physical sport, and I've no interest in watching a freetaking contest to decide the destiny of Sam. The winners should have a bit of mettle and then some.

And because (us nordies especially) we only really start to analyse Kerry at the latter end of a championship, it does on occasion seem like they have a different set of rules. They don't. Not Kerry per se. The last eight, last four and last two have an incrementally different set of rules.

We just see more of Kerry and Dublin at these stages than anyone else, playing more often by the "bigger boy" rules. And for some observers, it manifests in paranoia.

I'd tend to agree with this.  In the latter stages referees feel more compelled to help create a better game, and that often means making different decisions than they normally would.  The commentary around games only feeds this, as seen when a referee is said to ruin a game for giving a red card at a crucial juncture when in fact it is the player themselves who have caused the issue, not the referee (unless it's overwhelmingly stupid like Donie Vaughan!)  There's plenty of exceptions to this where strong referees have made decisions which haven't helped the game, but overall there is a tendency throughout games to be that bit more lenient.

In terms of the game itself I would not have fancied Galway v Dublin, but I think they will give Kerry a fair rattle.
If they can get the Kerry forwards running back then they will really upset them. Sean Kelly went on some serious runs off the ball v Derry but it dragged a marker away up the field too.

In the air Moran is class and great on the ball too, but Galway have a lot of very big mobile men around the middle.

There was good insight here for match-ups in the Derry game, so who will mark who this time out? I do think Shane Walsh will get more freedom against Kerry...

Agree there was some good analysis on the match ups, mainly from the Derry wans to be fair. Complete absence of it on here for the final

I actually think Moran will struggle a bit on Sunday. McDaid and Conroy look a more balanced pairing. McDaid has the legs, and Conroy has the aerial prowess. Moran at 34 years old now, this is likely his last outing for Kerry

Galway need to repeat the defensive performance of the semi final, that will be difficult as Derry ran out of ideas fairly early in the contest. Derry spent the second half going through the emotions, defending a deficit. Kerry wont entertain that sort of madness on Sunday.

That said i still think Galway have an excellent chance. Kerry are certainly beatable, I agree with Oisin McConville when he says he doesnt trust their mentality. if the game is in the balance in the closing stages, its Galway for me.

Unfortunately for Walsh, Kerry have a tailor made opponent for him in Tom O'Sullivan.  After a quiet semi final, Galway really need to find a way to get him into the game, but he's going to be marking one of the best in the business who will also force him into the wrong side of the field.  Kerry will not play as defensive as Derry so he may see more space, but he really needs to be getting his hands on ball closer to the attacking 45 than the defensive.  Foley v Comer will be interesting, it's likely with the forewarning Kerry have received that Morley will try to cut out the dinked John Daly passes inside.  With Galway trying to drop men back it will leave Morley relatively free to close the space to Comer.  Possibly the likes of Conroy/Tierney/Kelly, or a roaming Walsh, could try an earlier ball from a bit deeper to see if Foley can control Comers power.  I'm not really sure that has been a feature of their game, but it's not a massive tweak either. Can Tierney have more influence if Morley is dropping off?  There's certainly more in him and if he was to exert some influence it can help create that dilemma for Morley and in turn that little bit more space for Comer.  Finnerty another who has the potential to profit if attention is focused elsewhere; O'Sullivan won't be quite as suffocating as Chrissy McKaigue!  I would have expected White to pick up Kelly, but there are rumours he is injured.  If Murphy comes in for White, it does create a bit of an aerial mismatch for Kerry and they might need to re-jig things a bit.

At midfield I think Barry will pick up McDaid, and Moran on Conroy.  Whilst Conroy can get forward and pick off points, it isn't based off pace and Moran should have the savvy to deal with this to some extent (until his legs run out.)  Also with the way Galway are anticipated to drop off to cover, it will mean that Moran will rarely be left with open ground to deal with Conroy.  All that said though, it is something Galway should be pinpointing and testing early.  Aerially I still think Moran trumps Conroy, and Kerry need that option at midfield in truth, so I can't see Kerry changing midfield from the last day out until Galway give them a reason too.  Kerry will press hard on kickouts, but Galway may be a bit more conservative.  Hopefully they'll at least have periods where they take those risks, like early 2nd half v Derry, and close off the short options and make it a contest.

I believe Michael Meehan has suggested Silke on D Clifford, in order to leave Kelly more freedom to support out the field.  This goes against the prevailing thought that Kelly will take up him up.  It really could be either, but I believe Kelly will start there which can leave Silke to SOS.  Counter intuitively, Kelly may actually get more freedom to break out if he's on D Cliff than he would SOS who will actually track him further.  A bit like Derrys problem against Galway, it's hard to put together direct match ups without leaving someone in a contest not particularly suited to them.  Will Silke then pick up SOS, or would they want him following P Clifford?  Could John Daly move back to Geaney, given Glynn doesn't appear the physical match of Geaney, or do Galway take that risk knowing that Kerry will want D Clifford closer to goal and may not look at exploiting that?  Where will John Daly go then?  Whilst he may try to be an extra man, Kerry won't always allow for it.  Glynn could follow P Cliff out instead, I don't think Galway would want Daly on P Cliff.  This is all assuming Molloy is not given one of these roles, and is left with Diarmuid O'Connor (or Dara Moynihan.)  Then McHugh goes to Stephen O'Brien (or Dara Moynihan.)  The bonus in terms of defensive match ups for Galway, is that their midfield pairing and Heaney/Kelly, have the capabilities of filling lots of those spaces or taking up a man to allow others to cover.  If White isn't there, it's an additional bonus for them.  They will attempt to close up that space around goal like they did against Derry, and obviously Kerry will have better outside shooters, but coincidentally Kerrys best 2 outside shooters could end up on the inside line (D Cliff and SOS.) 

I feel that Galway will be banking on goals, and they'll need 2 more than Kerry to win imo.  The easiest way for them to do it will be to shut Kerrys way to goal completely, and then focus on keeping their main shooters to limited opportunities.  P Clifford, S O'Brien, D O'Connor, or J Barry will not score a high percentage of "outside" shots, so the focus can be slightly shifted onto the others, if they've managed to slow the build up (a.k.a. the transition  ).  If they get it in quickly, that becomes much more difficult, which is why their ability to slow them up will be so crucial.  Hopefully this doesn't mean they'll just sit deep waiting, giving Kerry excess possession will eventually lead to gaps.  I think they'll try to engage them around midfield whilst attempting to shuffle 2 back as they've done in previous games.  An AI final and the nerves that come with it can cause conservatism, but if Galway can show courage and take calculated risks in how they play, they can take Kerry into an uncomfortable place where this particular team haven't always shown the composure expected of AI Champions (even in victory v the Dubs.)  I still expect Kerry to have too much, but if Galway are in sight at 50 minutes I think they'll take it down the stretch and from there I couldn't safely predict a winner.

Jack McCarron scored a mark off him and won 2 converted frees off him too iirc.

[Does McCloskey have a bit more pace than McGrogan?]

Rodgers will play midfield, McKinless stay no.6, Chrissy pick up Comer, who match up on Walsh I don't know, likely would been McGrogan (as he picked up McManus in Monaghan game) but he got it tight in the Clare game.

I'd tend to agree with that.  Does McCloskey have a bit more pace than McGrogan?   I know McGrogan has been a more preferred match up but after struggling with Cleary it isn't ideal going into a contest against Walsh!

Serious? lol Clucky is an absolute rocket

He quite clearly is, but I can't really recall seeing McGrogan opening up so don't know to what degree his pace is.  Maybe McCloskey is the better match up for Walsh (obviously it isn't all about pace but with someone as quick as Walsh it is a prerequisite!)

Rodgers will play midfield, McKinless stay no.6, Chrissy pick up Comer, who match up on Walsh I don't know, likely would been McGrogan (as he picked up McManus in Monaghan game) but he got it tight in the Clare game.

I'd tend to agree with that.  Does McCloskey have a bit more pace than McGrogan?  I know McGrogan has been a more preferred match up but after struggling with Cleary it isn't ideal going into a contest against Walsh!

[Derry don't have a real ball winning FF]

....maybe if they'd played their last game 2 days ago but a two week break takes tiredness out of the equation. Derry are the fittest of the 4 teams left and showed in all games thus far that they have the legs coming down the stretch. Just look at glass's GPS for the Ulster final- 18km ( even allowing for the extra 20 mins) that's off the charts running.
Our bench might be our Achilles heel if we pick up a couple of injuries. Emmett Bradley is a super option and would love to see a fully fit Paudie Tad unleashed in CP. after that, it's light enough. A full press on our kickout is also a worry if Galway decide to go down that route though unlikely as I think Joyce will keep cover to try to prevent exposure when we break quickly. It's intriguing, looking forward to it.

Just looking at match ups and Paudie seems like a good fit for Patrick Kelly, albeit maybe he doesn't have enough football behind him to be given a starting role.  I think if he was, it would help the match ups fit better in the Derry defence. 

Who will mark Walsh and Comer?  I think Derry have a bit of a conundrum in terms of match ups; I expect one of McKinless or Rogers to be on McDaid which means only one can be in defence.  Could McKaigue take up Comer and McCloskey or McGrogan take up Walsh, with the other on Finnerty?  That would leave Rogers free to go on Tierney/McDaid/Kelly and give him a platform to do his usual marauding as well.  Obviously any defence will be as much about a system, but the match ups will be key too and Derry have a lot more questions in how they are going to go about it than Galway.

At the other end it seems nailed on that Sean Kelly will take up McGuigan wherever he goes, but if he ends up venturing out with McGuigan it could leave the Galway FB line even more exposed.  Derry don't have a real ball winning FF to exploit that but it would be interesting if the likes of Glass drifted in occasionally and was left competing with Conroy at FB.

The potential Ethan Doherty v Molloy match up will be a great contest too.

It could be a more cagey opening to this game than anticipated, it might take a while to settle.

What does this mean?

I hear it all the time.

It is a bit of a generic statement, but what I mean is that they don't really have a player who stays around the square and can win longer direct ball, or generally cause chaos in and around there.  Comer is a good example!  It is a perceived weakness of Galway, further magnified after the goals scored by Armagh, but I'm not sure it is something Derry have the right type of player to exploit, unless they were to try something different.

....maybe if they'd played their last game 2 days ago but a two week break takes tiredness out of the equation. Derry are the fittest of the 4 teams left and showed in all games thus far that they have the legs coming down the stretch. Just look at glass's GPS for the Ulster final- 18km ( even allowing for the extra 20 mins) that's off the charts running.
Our bench might be our Achilles heel if we pick up a couple of injuries. Emmett Bradley is a super option and would love to see a fully fit Paudie Tad unleashed in CP. after that, it's light enough. A full press on our kickout is also a worry if Galway decide to go down that route though unlikely as I think Joyce will keep cover to try to prevent exposure when we break quickly. It's intriguing, looking forward to it.

Just looking at match ups and Paudie seems like a good fit for Patrick Kelly, albeit maybe he doesn't have enough football behind him to be given a starting role.  I think if he was, it would help the match ups fit better in the Derry defence. 

Who will mark Walsh and Comer?  I think Derry have a bit of a conundrum in terms of match ups; I expect one of McKinless or Rogers to be on McDaid which means only one can be in defence.  Could McKaigue take up Comer and McCloskey or McGrogan take up Walsh, with the other on Finnerty?  That would leave Rogers free to go on Tierney/McDaid/Kelly and give him a platform to do his usual marauding as well.  Obviously any defence will be as much about a system, but the match ups will be key too and Derry have a lot more questions in how they are going to go about it than Galway.

At the other end it seems nailed on that Sean Kelly will take up McGuigan wherever he goes, but if he ends up venturing out with McGuigan it could leave the Galway FB line even more exposed.  Derry don't have a real ball winning FF to exploit that but it would be interesting if the likes of Glass drifted in occasionally and was left competing with Conroy at FB.

The potential Ethan Doherty v Molloy match up will be a great contest too.

It could be a more cagey opening to this game than anticipated, it might take a while to settle.

Let's get back to the game
Galway's first goal a definite throw ball
And the second free kick against Mackin a clear pull down from comet
Some mistakes through out game which seem to be lost in the furore
Some game though
Still
Think hall should have gone for goal

It's a scenario where most go for a point, but a goal was certainly on. Why did Armagh choose to give up the kick out after the point? There was a stoppage and Armagh flooded back when they could have pressed and forced a contest for possession (hard not to think of the "game management" by Dublin against Mayo years ago when Clarke ended up hitting out over the line.) I thought that was a time to show courage. When McDaid scored Galway followed up with a press and actually won the resultant kick out.

Food stalls there on a Sunday too Walter

Does that , or did that, derrygonnelly centre half back ever play for Fermanagh? He seems like a hardy boy and a good footballer too.

Hardy? Went down holding his face after a push in the chest. Par for the course I suppose but hardy, no.

Was this the incident with Turbitt? It was relatively harmless but it was a push with contact to the face and whilst Cassidy remonstrated with the ref, he certainly didn't go down and unfortunately we're at a stage where that is actually commendable in itself.

If there was another incident then I apologise ...

Well done Derrygonnelly, fully deserving of their place in the final.

What vpn did you get?  I went for NordVPN £100 for 3 years inc vat. Seems to be working well

Ipvanish

That's interesting, I also have IPVanish and have the same problem as you.

The problem we're all in Div 3 lads is we're inconsistent. Potentially on our day we're all capable of beating each other but then go out next week and get beat, Div 1 & 2 teams do it week in week out.
Was really surprised that Armagh was as comfortable as they did as i expected a lot tougher game than that, I'm so glad we have Longford at home as they're usually very hard to beat in Longford.

Fermanagh are moving along nicely too, will be hard to beat.

Whilst we (Fermanagh) have won both games, we haven't really been going that well. We have been lucky to get the supposed 2 weakest teams in the Division so far. Our attitude and workrate have been first class but our standard of play has been relatively poor.  We've benefitted from some really soft goals and have also given away some really soft goals.  Brewster Park is a real slog at the moment which doesn't help, it'll be nice to get away from it this weekend.  Hopefully our attacking play and ability to move the ball forward can improve; our starting forwards have only scored 0-6 in 2 games (excluding those goals.)

Which VPN did you yet Gs?

I am on BT and also use Sportsmania. I've found it more difficult to find a good stream, but I've always found one. Definitely not as good as last year as you have to search around a bit more, but I still always get a good stream.

I am in the North btw.

[Against Fermanagh James Morgan]

I unfortunately missed the match due to family commitments, so I can't comment on the specifics of this Ref's performance. What I have witnessed from Armagh in league and championship is a tendency for some players to do incredibly stupid things, whether it is late hits, slapping the ball away after a free is given and in the case of some individuals poor tackling. What has frustrated me as a spectator though is a lack of consistency from Ref's. What is given as a free at one end isn't at the other. In Jamie Clarke we have a very gifted footballer, but in the games I've seen him play he has been frustrated by a lack of protection from Ref's and has been on the wrong end of poor decisions. Against Fermanagh James Morgan made at least 3 tackles and similarly against Down where he clearly played the ball away but because he was behind the man a free was blown for absolutely no reason. My point is if you are going to let play go as happens in hurling then do so consistently. I have a perception that Armagh are hard done my, but that is personal bias. No harm to LS you can not be entirely neutral it is not in human nature. On the black card it was introduced as a reaction to the outcry after Kavanagh's cynical foul on McManus. The problem seems to be the scope has widened and no one including myself seems to be clear on application. It should be simplified to any foul play that denies a goal scoring opportunity that warrants a yellow as opposed to red card. Other cynical fouls should be yellows.

James Morgan did not play against Fermanagh (to further continue the nit picking.)

I agree with the sentiment that there is little consistency in refereeing, however I do feel the overarching problem is no clearly defined tackle thus leaving it a very difficult rule to implement. What may seem like "the same incident" usually has some nuance which makes it slightly different. Each decision has to be made on it's own merits, even if I do feel referees should try to blow less (a bit of a contradiction I know.)

Finally, against Fermanagh Jamie needed no protection whasoever. In fact when making runs he tended to initially instigate contact with his man in order to create space for himself to get in front. I was a bit disappointed in our defender who allowed it to happen so often.