Messages

There is a very strong link imo  between the numbers who voted Leave and what Thatcher did to the N of England in the 1980s.

https://www.ft.com/content/7ee8c8ec-41ba-11ea-a047-eae9bd51ceba
In 1981 — after a summer of inner city riots — the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher considered abandoning parts of the north to what the then chancellor Geoffrey Howe described as "managed decline".
   In a letter dated September 4, and only released by the state archives in 2011, Mr Howe, a Cambridge-educated classicist, asked: "Should our aim be to stabilise the inner cities . . . or is this to pump water uphill? Should we rather go for 'managed decline'?" He realised how controversial the approach would be. "This is not a term for use, even privately," he counselled cabinet colleagues. "It is much too negative."

The causes of the Toxteth riots in Liverpool and those in Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Bristol and London were manifold. Racial harassment of young black people by the police was the spark, but unemployment rates of as much as 50 per cent in some places had robbed many people of hope as well as money.

Thatcher blamed the poor. "We have a whole generation brought up on five hours a day of TV," she told the cabinet on July 9. "We have poured money into big employments in Merseyside; a failure."

As her government cut subsidies and sterling soared, allowing a flood of cheap imports, industry across the north of England and the Midlands collapsed. More than 1m manufacturing jobs were lost between 1979 and 1981. Almost one in five people in the north-east were jobless, compared with one in 10 in the south-east. Hundreds of thousands of people moved south for work.

Michael Heseltine, the then environment secretary, accused his own government of "tactical retreat, a combination of economic erosion and encouraged evacuation".

Three years later the fight moved from the cities to the coalfields. A plan to shut up to 75 pits over three years sparked a year-long strike across Yorkshire, Durham, Lancashire, South Wales and Scotland. More than 160,000 coalfield jobs were lost in the decade after 1981. By 1996 Grimethorpe, once a thriving pit village in South Yorkshire, was the most deprived area in the UK. And some coalfield communities are still struggling to find a new purpose."

It makes you wonder what sort of fuckwits voted her in time and time again, and with big majorities !

Like loyalists voting for the DUP. WTF

Or Nationalists voting Sinn Fein. WTF

Has any clubs been informed by their county board to stop using this facility? No indication that my own club is intending to stop its use. I guess it's a case of wait and see what others are doing.

My kids are in hurling, football and camogie all communication was through whatsapp for years now we are getting text messages.

[Yes, what a f**king pathetic twat he is.]

Just seen Farage and co performance in Brussels today.

Holy Fcuk.....

Normal brits must be mortified. Quicker we break away from that outfit the better.

Yes, what a f**king pathetic twat he is.

It ain't over at 11pm this evening either. The 'Brade deals' have to start. That's when the real stuff begins.

Whatever you think of him, he got the UK to leave the European Union practically single handed.

Would implied consent not be given when a user signs up to WhatApp? As in, most people are aware their profile image and number is displayed to other users? By signing up to WhatsApp you are in fact opting in?

Take the example of a missed call on your phone.  If it is a mobile number, you can save this to your phone and check you contacts on WhatsApp and view a profile photo to see who it was. 
This has nothing to do with groups or people adding you to groups without your permission, this is just basic functionality of the app.  I would imagine in that spiel of text  before you click the "I agree" button, there is something in there detailing this and how your data is used?

https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/?eea=1#privacy-policy-information-we-collect

Information You Provide

Your Account Information. You provide your mobile phone number and basic information (including a profile name) to create a WhatsApp account. You provide us, all in accordance with applicable laws, the phone numbers in your mobile address book on a regular basis, including those of both the users of our Services and your other contacts. You may provide us an email address. You may also add other information to your account, such as a profile picture and about information.

Agree with all the sentiments of wobbler - commonsense seems to be a thing of the past!

[So Hitler wasn't evil?]

I don't think there's a one size fits all explanation for these things.
They are horrific, sad and heart wrenching acts no matter what the situation.

There are different scenarios, or reasons for want of a better word, that I can think of.

Evil - simply put an evil act of terror against children/wife/husband. No mental health issues, just a pre-meditated action of violence against a vulnerable person or child.

Mental Health - Suicidal tendancies brought on by depression/abuse/ptsd and those feelings of worthlessness and being a burden on family and society becoming so overwhelming that in their head, the only option is suicide. From what exposure I've had of this, the option of suicide is not a selfish one, but one which in the head of that person is actually for the benefit of the people who would be affected. So a mother might believe that it is for the benefit of her children that she is dead. A husband might think he is so much of a burden on his wife, that she'd be better off if he's dead. I know this sounds wrong, but in the head of the person who commits suicide this logic adds up. Only my experience....and I'm not saying it would be the same for everyone and i'm not trying to condone any of the actions.

Mental Health - Murder Suicide. I can only imagine that this is an extreme case of the suicidal situation. Where in the head of the person doing the killing, that the children (in this case) would be better off dead than living.  Or it could be that the person wants to commit suicide, but cant bear to leave the children behind so decides to take them too. Of course, this is all irrational thought and behaviour and I honestly think in this situation the act is not an evil act but one of desperation and illogical thought brought on by illness.

I see comments along the lines of ...."why could they not just kill themselves", or "why did they not speak to someone"....for me, I think in the head of the person committing suicide or murder/suicide, it's not a decision but rather a compulsion they have no actual control over. Mentally their brain is not working correctly. I know many will disagree, but I've had a family member in the past who is lucky to have survived and this was how they explained it to me after the events.
I'm not trying to condone any of these actions, as those 3 kids were absolutely innocent of anything and victims no matter how you look at it. But perhaps the mother is not evil....perhaps she is extremely ill for what ever reason.

I just think it's unfair to speak about her in terms of being evil or could she just have killed herself, until the facts are known. I realise it was unfair to the children what happened to them and it's unimaginable how terrified they must have been, but its not helpful to anyone to pass comment on those involved at this time, especially not to the family left behind.

Indeed. The word "evil" is a satisfying one to say, especially in a case like this, but it's a bit of a cop-out in that it admits defeat in the mission to understand why these things happen. People do bad things because in their minds they're doing the right thing. Even Hitler thought he was doing Germany a favour even though he rounded up and murdered so many Germans. Trying to understand the twisted logic behind it is not the same as condoning it.

So Hitler wasn't evil?    Can you say you understand the "twisted logic" of Adolf Hitler?

No, Tric. I don't think Hitler wasn't evil. Please go back and read my post again, then come back to me with questions if you're still missing the point or if you don't think I'm being clear enough.

Do you think someone who kills innocent children is evil or would you simply conclude that in their minds they were trying to do the right thing?  It's amazing in today's society - especial the self-righteous on boards such as this, go out off their way to be more and more liberal, to the point they will condone everything, which is a very easy and admiral trait, except if any of these horrors were to God forbid in some guise land at their own doorstep, the high horse stance would soon dissipate!

Bye, Fox. Another sock puppet on ignore.

Poor Eamonn can't debate just pontificate - sad man.

Another snowflake going out of his way to be offended.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7943667/Alastair-Stewart-steps-ITV-News-presenting-duties.html

[So Hitler wasn't evil?]

I don't think there's a one size fits all explanation for these things.
They are horrific, sad and heart wrenching acts no matter what the situation.

There are different scenarios, or reasons for want of a better word, that I can think of.

Evil - simply put an evil act of terror against children/wife/husband. No mental health issues, just a pre-meditated action of violence against a vulnerable person or child.

Mental Health - Suicidal tendancies brought on by depression/abuse/ptsd and those feelings of worthlessness and being a burden on family and society becoming so overwhelming that in their head, the only option is suicide. From what exposure I've had of this, the option of suicide is not a selfish one, but one which in the head of that person is actually for the benefit of the people who would be affected. So a mother might believe that it is for the benefit of her children that she is dead. A husband might think he is so much of a burden on his wife, that she'd be better off if he's dead. I know this sounds wrong, but in the head of the person who commits suicide this logic adds up. Only my experience....and I'm not saying it would be the same for everyone and i'm not trying to condone any of the actions.

Mental Health - Murder Suicide. I can only imagine that this is an extreme case of the suicidal situation. Where in the head of the person doing the killing, that the children (in this case) would be better off dead than living.  Or it could be that the person wants to commit suicide, but cant bear to leave the children behind so decides to take them too. Of course, this is all irrational thought and behaviour and I honestly think in this situation the act is not an evil act but one of desperation and illogical thought brought on by illness.

I see comments along the lines of ...."why could they not just kill themselves", or "why did they not speak to someone"....for me, I think in the head of the person committing suicide or murder/suicide, it's not a decision but rather a compulsion they have no actual control over. Mentally their brain is not working correctly. I know many will disagree, but I've had a family member in the past who is lucky to have survived and this was how they explained it to me after the events.
I'm not trying to condone any of these actions, as those 3 kids were absolutely innocent of anything and victims no matter how you look at it. But perhaps the mother is not evil....perhaps she is extremely ill for what ever reason.

I just think it's unfair to speak about her in terms of being evil or could she just have killed herself, until the facts are known. I realise it was unfair to the children what happened to them and it's unimaginable how terrified they must have been, but its not helpful to anyone to pass comment on those involved at this time, especially not to the family left behind.

Indeed. The word "evil" is a satisfying one to say, especially in a case like this, but it's a bit of a cop-out in that it admits defeat in the mission to understand why these things happen. People do bad things because in their minds they're doing the right thing. Even Hitler thought he was doing Germany a favour even though he rounded up and murdered so many Germans. Trying to understand the twisted logic behind it is not the same as condoning it.

So Hitler wasn't evil?    Can you say you understand the "twisted logic" of Adolf Hitler?

No, Tric. I don't think Hitler wasn't evil. Please go back and read my post again, then come back to me with questions if you're still missing the point or if you don't think I'm being clear enough.

Do you think someone who kills innocent children is evil or would you simply conclude that in their minds they were trying to do the right thing?  It's amazing in today's society - especial the self-righteous on boards such as this, go out off their way to be more and more liberal, to the point they will condone everything, which is a very easy and admiral trait, except if any of these horrors were to God forbid in some guise land at their own doorstep, the high horse stance would soon dissipate!

[Unfortunately for your apparently (small sample size of posts admittedly) simplistic, outmoded view of the world, it really does exist in shades of grey.]

Unfortunately for your apparently (small sample size of posts admittedly) simplistic, outmoded view of the world, it really does exist in shades of grey. There isn't always a "he/she is evil and that's the simple reason" explanation for every tragedy. Obviously none of know what drove this woman to do what she did, and it may never be known. What is clear, and very well and thoughtfully articulated by tbrick18, is that what goes on inside of the head of a mentally ill or disturbed person is not necessarily subject to normal standards of reasoning and judgment, especially in a case like this when you're talking about a mother and her children. Mental illness is only beginning to be understood by wider society as a legitimate health issue. You were (ludicrously) whining yourself yesterday that the growing awareness of mental illness apparently doesn't extend itself to white, straight men.

I think I got the self-righteous on the head - i'll add delusions of grander about one's ability to post shite on an internet forum, so should we deem parents, sorry mothers as you seem to be running with that one, who abuse their children as having mental health issues which we shouldn't comment on as we don't understand or is that just reserved for murdering the children?

And of course we get the male victimhood shite again!

But yes, parents, of course.

I never said you couldn't comment on why this happened. I agreed with tbrick18 on his well-supported comment that until the facts come out, simply labeling her as evil or condemning her for not just killing herself is unfair and baseless.

You are free to call her whatever the f**k you want (and call other posters names if you think that will help), but all it is is baseless, emotional, reactionary nonsense in the absence of an investigation, inquest and possibly trial. Unless you have some inside information supporting your contention, in which case you should state so.

No one disputes that this was a terrible tragedy and an appalling, unjust end to three young lives and the ruination of their father and other relatives. Acknowledging the obvious potential role of serious mental illness and possibly diminished responsibility doesn't  change that. In fact, it probably makes it even worse in some ways if that turns out to be the case.

You really are on tiptop form whats the male victimhood shite your refer too, what have I called this woman? and as for pointing out your characteristics is that name calling - or my viewpoint, in which case

Are you not able to present a good defense of them?

You were (ludicrously) whining yourself yesterday that the growing awareness of mental illness apparently doesn't extend itself to white, straight men.

The irony is the whole media campaign about mental awareness, where in reality it only appears to be for people who are in the minority as they are the only one ever suffer. 

And?

You made your quote up.

Can you still pay for your child to go to Grammar school?

Some parents really wasted their money back in my day paying for lads!  I suppose paying 35 quid an hour two or three times a week to have them tutored is the modern equivalent!

What incentives are there for winning the tier 2 championship?

A 45 second highlights package on TSG.

If that, a joke of a competition.

[Unfortunately for your apparently (small sample size of posts admittedly) simplistic, outmoded view of the world, it really does exist in shades of grey.]

Unfortunately for your apparently (small sample size of posts admittedly) simplistic, outmoded view of the world, it really does exist in shades of grey. There isn't always a "he/she is evil and that's the simple reason" explanation for every tragedy. Obviously none of know what drove this woman to do what she did, and it may never be known. What is clear, and very well and thoughtfully articulated by tbrick18, is that what goes on inside of the head of a mentally ill or disturbed person is not necessarily subject to normal standards of reasoning and judgment, especially in a case like this when you're talking about a mother and her children. Mental illness is only beginning to be understood by wider society as a legitimate health issue. You were (ludicrously) whining yourself yesterday that the growing awareness of mental illness apparently doesn't extend itself to white, straight men.

I think I got the self-righteous on the head - i'll add delusions of grander about one's ability to post shite on an internet forum, so should we deem parents, sorry mothers as you seem to be running with that one, who abuse their children as having mental health issues which we shouldn't comment on as we don't understand or is that just reserved for murdering the children?

You were (ludicrously) whining yourself yesterday that the growing awareness of mental illness apparently doesn't extend itself to white, straight men.

The irony is the whole media campaign about mental awareness, where in reality it only appears to be for people who are in the minority as they are the only one ever suffer. 

[I just think it's unfair to speak about her in terms of being evil or could she just have killed herself, until the facts are known.]

I don't think there's a one size fits all explanation for these things.
They are horrific, sad and heart wrenching acts no matter what the situation.

There are different scenarios, or reasons for want of a better word, that I can think of.

Evil - simply put an evil act of terror against children/wife/husband. No mental health issues, just a pre-meditated action of violence against a vulnerable person or child.

Mental Health - Suicidal tendancies brought on by depression/abuse/ptsd and those feelings of worthlessness and being a burden on family and society becoming so overwhelming that in their head, the only option is suicide. From what exposure I've had of this, the option of suicide is not a selfish one, but one which in the head of that person is actually for the benefit of the people who would be affected. So a mother might believe that it is for the benefit of her children that she is dead. A husband might think he is so much of a burden on his wife, that she'd be better off if he's dead. I know this sounds wrong, but in the head of the person who commits suicide this logic adds up. Only my experience....and I'm not saying it would be the same for everyone and i'm not trying to condone any of the actions.

Mental Health - Murder Suicide. I can only imagine that this is an extreme case of the suicidal situation. Where in the head of the person doing the killing, that the children (in this case) would be better off dead than living.  Or it could be that the person wants to commit suicide, but cant bear to leave the children behind so decides to take them too. Of course, this is all irrational thought and behaviour and I honestly think in this situation the act is not an evil act but one of desperation and illogical thought brought on by illness.

I see comments along the lines of ...."why could they not just kill themselves", or "why did they not speak to someone"....for me, I think in the head of the person committing suicide or murder/suicide, it's not a decision but rather a compulsion they have no actual control over. Mentally their brain is not working correctly. I know many will disagree, but I've had a family member in the past who is lucky to have survived and this was how they explained it to me after the events.
I'm not trying to condone any of these actions, as those 3 kids were absolutely innocent of anything and victims no matter how you look at it. But perhaps the mother is not evil....perhaps she is extremely ill for what ever reason.

I just think it's unfair to speak about her in terms of being evil or could she just have killed herself, until the facts are known. I realise it was unfair to the children what happened to them and it's unimaginable how terrified they must have been, but its not helpful to anyone to pass comment on those involved at this time, especially not to the family left behind.

I think it's unfair to take the lives off three children, do you think the facts will show they wanted to be murdered - again this is the fcuked up society we live in making excuses for wrongs, poor woman she wasn't right mentally, do you think anyone who goes out and commits murder or any kind is right mentally, should we show compassion and sympathy to them all, wasn't their fault demons and all that - off course the boards self-righteous wet blanket piles in behind this shite.

[ny attendance from the Armagh game]

I'd estimate 3k at most in the Hyde.
Probably 50 from Laois!

Would have been 51 but LL was watching his boys hang on against Shrewsbury

any attendance from the Armagh game Benny?

4,466

I was surprised at this.  I thought there were more than that there.  Does that include non paying under 16s?

No just ticket sales.