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Yep that's right lads we have our heads in the sand, thin edge of the wedge, look at what happened to rugby, lads will travel 4hr round trips 3 times a week for €2K a year. 95% of your points are about what will happen (IYO) in the future, with nothing to back it up and little engagement on opposing points made to ye. Just repeating the mantra that the sky will fall in on the GAA.

Ha - you stupidly assume that the 2K will stay at 2K.



I am using circumstantial evidence of both local rugby and local soccer - you (and the other pro grants supporters) are using hot air to back your argument.



Repeating ad nauseum that "the GAA are different", and "it won't happen to us" is not an argument based on anything but your own pre-conceived notions.

no such thing is happening in the gaa, nor ever will.

You keep telling yourself that and it might really be the case....




actually, no, no, no... it won't.

[will]

1. I see no reason why not. County board members have continued to work away despite payments to managers. And many co board officials are paid now anyway.

2. Well, seeing as I don't think (1) is going to be an issue, the answer is no.

3. Of course it's going to be from the government's coffers. Unless Bertie organises a whip-around 
    a) Bit of a pathetic question. Sure if you use that logic, there wouldn't be investment in any area other than health. As an aside, the shambles of a health system is not because of a lack of money being thrown at it.
   b) The governemt have given a commitment that the funding does not affect GAA infrastructure grants. It's fair to throw your eyes up at that though. But then, we never have a fixed GAA budget anyway so we never know what the GAA is going to get. It's an impossible question to answer.

4. Well they're going to remain at that level for 3 years anyway - they are the terms of the deal. It's up to the govt and the GPA to negotiate after that point. I presume the point you're trying to make is that it could escalate to huge sums of money that would entice top players from weaker counties to move to bigger counties etc. But I can't see that happening! Do you really think the govt are going to effecively pay salaries to 2000 footballers and hurlers!?

5. No I don't. Any temptation to move county is already there anyway - there are plenty of people tempting top players 'under the counter'. So a couple of grand isn't going to change it.

6. Why wouldn't they?? I presume the main reasons they raise money for their county teams is out of pride of place and to see their county teams prepared as well as possible, so they have the best chance of success. I don't see why the grants would change that desire. And if anything, you could argue the grant will help player's preparation - money to spend on their dietary requirements etc...

1. County boards have paid the managers themselves, but many are dead set against the grants. Somewhat hypocritical I know, but that doesn't change the attitude of many county boards to these grants.

2. OK, your opinion, might be right, probably wrong (IMO).

3. PMSL - are you grant supporters really that wet behind the ears? DMarsden and now you both think that the government will give the extra money to the GAA and won't re-arrange the tax breaks etc to make it revenue neutral (from their perspective) - I suppose it is indicative of the ignorance shown in the pro-grant arguments really.

I can assure you that WILL NOT BE THE CASE, the GAA will be paying for these grants in otherwise unreceived money.

Did you miss the etc behind hospitals?


4. The GAA have effectively been suckered into paying these 'grants' already, with increases in the wage, they will have to stump up more.


5. I disagree.


6. Hmmm.... I'll bet support for such schemes disintegrates unless it is made clear no money whatsoever is going to the county panel.

Not very dedicated clubmen then.

You could of course, level the very same accusation at the county players - they aren't very dedicated are they?

Thats it  lads - just keep ignoring what has happened to club Rugby - it'll never happen to us - were different - sure our players alll do it just for the love of the game and sure a wedge dosn't have a thin edge.

Come back and see what the set up is like in 5/10 years wwhen this poison has seeped through the system.

I know - the evidence is staring them in the face yet they are burying their heads in the sand.

Can you explain how the current situation is going to impact the GAA clubs in the same way rugby has been affected?

There has been NO change made to the club or inter-county structure.

The ONLY difference is the inter-county players get an annual grant of a max of €2500 (just over €200 a month).
So how is this the ruination of the club???

A few questions you should ask yourself.


1. Do you actually think county board members are going to give their time as freely now that others are being recompensed and they aren't? (are you aware of the time commitments county board members have to make?)

2. Do you think the effects of (1) are not going to affect the clubs?

3. Do you actually think that the government are going to pay this money from their own coffers?
a) if yes (which will not be the case IMO)- do you think that money should be better spent on hospitals etc?
b) if no - since that money is being lifted from the grants the govt give to the GAA for infrastructure, or from the tax breaks, its money that won't be spent on coaching/stadia/pitches/offsetting insurance etc.

4. Are you so naive as to think these "grants" are going to remain at €2500 a year?

5. Do you think the top players are not going to face extra temptation to transfer to the better counties where the prospects of getting more money are better? Or conversely, a poor hurler by Kilkenny's standards could transfer to... say Down - he'll get a grant then. A better example would have been Dublin to Meath I suppose. That will affect clubs too.

6. Why should people bother raising money for things like Club Down, we've already seen one high profile resignation from Club Tyrone. As you may or may not know Club Tyrone helps with much more than just the county teams, coaching and games development and pitch improvements receive funding raised through the Club Tyrone initiative. Do you think the tarring of things like Club Tyrone with paid players really won't reduce the support for them, and by proxy reduce the support clubs receive for coaching and infrastructure?

County and Club aren't really comparable, and why would a clubman desert his club because of what's going on at county level?

Oh I dunno... I suppose it would be the blatantly obvious inference being made that he/she feels they should be getting compensation for their commitment too.

Tom Brewster came out in the local press a few months ago and said that he had lost a weeks wages after spending time in an ice chamber, trying to get fit. He received no financial support from the GAA. That cannot be right?

What if he were to take the week off and spend it training full time "to get fit"?

Should the GAA support him financially then?


Tom Brewster had a decision to make, no-one forced him to make the call he did.




The problem is the stupid levels of time commitment players are being asked to make. The GAA need to act to scale that back rather than give out money (which will only exacerbate the problem).



That Armagh side were one of the first to raise the bar on preparation, be it training or training 'camps' or whatever... if they were not willing to sustain that commitment, then its up to them to reduce it. McGeeney and co made the bed - now they don't want to lie on it.

rrhf, see the next fella from Donaghmore who goes over to the states during the summer and openly admits and boasts that he's getting paid to play our games - I expect you to say something to him. Getting a grant is the legalised version of that.

Do 2 wrongs make a right in your opinion?

I also dont agree with the figure thats was bandied about regarding lost earnings. I feel it is too much but undoubtedly many Inter county players are left out of pocket by leaving early to get to training and , being unable to work at the weekends and in many cases having to take Fridays off as well to travel down for a saturday qualifier.

Very true. They are out of pocket.


Does the club player get mileage expenses for travelling to training, does he have to leave early too? Does he get all his gear and boots supplied? Does he get mileage expenses for matches? Does he get fed at matches? Does he get his physiotherapy paid? (some clubs won't, others will have fund raising nights where the players essentially pay for it then)



The county players do have to make a bigger commitment than club players, but they also have more extensive support structures around them than club players (disregarding the grants).

[most clubmen don't care. why would they?]

listen, you can't really believe this nonsense. At our club agm a short while back, at the height of the grants storm, it wasn't even mentioned. most clubmen don't care. why would they?

I can't really believe the nonsense you post... at least your consistent though.

How on earth can you say most clubmen don't care?


I can say most do care, and point to the sample poll on this board as evidence.


You, as usual, make a statement with the square root of f__k all to back it up.

eh, you are aware that i'm not envisaging any scenario? i'm saying things will not change. what evidence would you like?

you are the only one dreaming up developments

In addition to the previous response, I work with a guy plays junior rugby, played for junior ulster etc, and we had a chin wag over this.


There are a load of little things he said I would never have considered.

For instance, he had to pay £110 last year for insurance, and even then that insurance only covers the most serious of injuries (i.e. a broken leg is NOT covered), most of the other members of his club had to take out separate personal insurance. It used to be that revenues from the 'big' games, i.e. ulster or international matches would filter down through to the grass roots, offsetting somewhat things like insurance. At the start, a proportion of it still did, but now its almost entirely gone on players wages.


I am virtually 100% certain that the GAA will pay for these grants one way or another - the government will give in one hand, and take with the other. Anyone that thinks otherwise is ignorant/blindly bias or stupid (delete as applicable). I also firmly believe these grants will start to snowball in value.  Eventually it will reach a point where the revenue from our big games is not filtering down to help build pitches or changing rooms (through GAA grants), or part fund insurance schemes, or offset coaching lessons etc etc.


All evidence of previous organisations going from amateur to semi-professional (and eventually it becomes professional) supports this. Grant supporters are simply burying their heads in the sand when this issue is raised.

eh, you are aware that i'm not envisaging any scenario? i'm saying things will not change. what evidence would you like?

Your envisaging a fundamental change to the relationship between county player and clubman/club player/county board/etc/etc not making a change.


There is at least one change already made to the scenario - its in my first sentence. The question is how many more will their be in tandem with that change.

That's not my definition brains... its the GAA's

The GAA pay expenses - that does not include time. Indeed, mileage expenses for playing football are considerably better than those for traveling to and from work.

Not that I expect you to acknowledge that.

I'm trying to be kind is there a nicer way to say that the scenario you envisage is total bollocks and noone could believe it?

Yet what circumstantial evidence do you have to back that up?

you are presenting exact scenarios in other sports which are not the GAA, never had and never will have the same volunteers, support and heritage. they are debunct and not comparable scenarios.

No, they are not the GAA, but the decline of local rugby in particular worries me - considering the strength of the national side in the past 15 years you would have expected popularity to go up, not down. Yet the club scene (at least here) is in serious decline.


You dismissing the comparisons with nothing to back up your position is the height of either arrogance or stupidity.

by the way, IC managers already have their own union. i'd have thought a cutting edge grass roots member like yourself would have known that!

Perhaps that is why they are getting paid.