Messages

I remember speaking about this very issue last year when offaly were down in division 2.

I reiterate what I said 12 months ago. The current Division 1 & Division 2 setups are a disaster and are taking teams such as Offaly, Dublin, Limerick, Wexford and Clare back a mile.

Offaly are safe for this year, and have competed pretty well in most of their games in Division 1. Most People would have laughed had I predicted this last year.

The simple fact is Clare and Wexford are about 5 - 10 points better than ALL teams in division 2. That includes Carlow, Antrim & Laois.

I know I will have fans of the three aforementioned counties telling me i know nothing etc etc. and Carlow especially seems to be making great strides forward picking up some very good results both this year and last year. But I do believe there are better formats.

Division 1

Cork
Galway
Tipp
Waterford
Kilkenny
Offaly (on this years league standings, should probably be div 2)

Division 2

Dublin
Limerick
Wexford
Clare
Laois
Antrim
Carlow


These two divisions would be extremely competitve, there would be 2 games left so less player burn out etc.

played a hurling match on saturday then we'd a football match (the thirds) on the sunday, the referee never turned up so i offered to referee the first half and i played the second half!!!!

Granted my legs are fooked but i'm 38

whats with these kids nowdays???

haha i think you just proved my point!!!

I think there is no reason why the dual player cant survive in GAA...and in some clubs they are essential to the continuation of hurling or football in the parish.

Its extremely tough at intercounty level to compete at one code, to do it with both is like a full time job...and a tough one at that.

But I think the real problem with player burn out etc is the ridiculously high demands that are put on players. For Example a player from my local club last year played Intercounty hurling @ senior, U21, Fitzgibbon cup, then senior and under 21 with the club, that is just one code. But the real problem he mentioned was training....he was expected to be at every training session for every team and to take part as much as possible.

Managers need to take their heads out of the sand, realise that its just not possible to be in two places at once. The old school managers think back to the "good oul days" when lads didnt get strained muscles and played for 10 teams if they were good enough

What they fail to realise is that the intensity level of training and matches in this modern age is a hard thing to keep going for 10 - 12 times a week, 40 - 50 weeks in the year.

Id imagine that the Cork managers and his club managers have gotten together to sort some kind of schedule out because he will definately burn out if hes not treated properly

Its a difficult one to call, amd really players playing for too many teams isnt the real core of the issue imo, its the training, there has been a serious ramp up in the ammount and intensity of training at club and county level over the last 15 years or so. Excessively so that any intercounty player is expected to train like a proffesional and behave like an ameteur.

Also the "run the crap out of them" mentality of trainers at some levels is really shocking. There is an unbelievable emphasis on size, phisicality, speed and stamina...in fact a lot of people overlook far better hurlers because they lack in one of these 4 area's which is a real shame. Its coming to a point, certainly at club level, players (in my own club and ive heard it from others) are opting out of senior level at an earlier age, many at 26 / 27 because they have family commitments etc and i think more needs to be done to bring the game back from the brink of proffesionalism.

Reillers the fact that you champions (ie munster champions) can't beat Kilkenny should tell you the current strength of the Munster championship.

Limerick- no team at present
Clare- div 2 outfit.
Tipp - a fine side
Cork - still a good side not as good as they used to be
Waterford- a good side

versus

Kilkenny- the best ever
Galway- a fine side
Wexford- a div 2 outfit
Dublin- a decent side
Offaly - a decent side

The alleged strength of the current Munster championship harps back to the 80's and 90's. thats the bottom line. I attend 3 Munster championship games every year for the last 20-25 years. I therefore am well versed to compare the two provinces and the current Munster championship isn't in a hapenny place to previous times. Its just not even close.
You're out of date on this one. Tipp v Cork in recent championship encounters has had all the cut and thrust of a seance compared to the late 80's.

I disagree with you but I did say Munster from a few years ago. 4/5 I think it was I said. Never mind about now and I still believe that Munster still is stronger, I never said a word about way back when, and I made the point not to.

Over the last few years you can't deny that Munster was more competitive than Leinster. By far.

I mean even saying it now, every team in Munster could beat every team in Leinster, obviously not Kilkenny and some not Galway.
Whatever way the standard might have dropped as you said in Munster, it's still better than Leinster, even with Galway being brought in.

Every team in Munster could beat every team in Leinster...so you think that Limerick & Clare could beat Galway, Dublin, Wexford & Offaly....not a flipping hope im afraid. Actually go along to the Limerick Offaly match next weekend, because if Limerick are in the same form as they were this weekend i think we can take the two points.

Reillers, INDIANA has it spot on, there are currently 3 top teams in Munster, definately 2 in Leinster, but first of all a mention on the state of the leinster and munster championships.

I reckon that this year there will be an extremely competitive leinster championship, You have KK trying to recover from indifferent league form, Galway with the Portumna outfit back, Wexford with all their injured players back can give a game to most, Dublin trying to build on their achievements last year and an offaly side trying to salvage some pride after an indifferent couple of years. On the munster side you have Limerick - on strike, Cork doing really well, Waterford doing well, Tipp doing well and Clare doing ok. Depending on the draw it will be a Tipp / Cork - Waterford final...and id wager tipp waterford. In leinster Id probably say KK and any one of the other four teams....not because the leinster championship is easy for KK, but because they are unbeaten in the all ireland for 4 years ffs!!

I'd be utterly amazed if Portumna thought they were 10-15 points better than Ballyhale. They would have known they were in for a huge battle. There's absolutely no way you go into  a game against Shefflin, Cha, The Reids, Fennelly and co. feeling complacent. It's a preposterous theory really. They were just beaten by a better team on the day. From reading this board one thing is clear - If you win anything in Ireland people will accuse you of being arrogant no matter how humble you are in victory.

No it isnt arrogance, and it isnt any begrudegery if you like to call it, If you wouldnt mind re reading my post, I said most hurling people, including myself truth be told thought they were 10 - 15 points better than any other club team in the country, and that is bound to lead to a bit of complacency. Im more than happy for Portumna, i celebrated with them when they won their all irelands and they are really only over the road from me. As I said in my first post Portumna will be back and Ballyhale wont be able to rest on their laurels if they wish to do two in a row

awfuly,

If you are a good team, and still in the championship, why would you want to play Portumna, as you are obviously going to be a possible opponent shortly afterwards. For example, if you are Newtown, or Thurles, or Birr, or Ballyhale, why would you play Portumna? All good club teams schedule county teams for challenge matches at that stage.

Sure everyone is "in" the championship in spring, granted there may not be as many in it come october but there are still plenty available, for example the offaly semi finals were only played in october last year as were tipp's if memory serves me right, toomevara, borrisoleigh or drom & inch arent a million miles off thurles and there are a few teams in offaly close to birr so I dont think your point is really valid, how about Oulart the Ballagh from Wexford, Ballyboden from Dublin, or Ballygunner from Waterford to name but a few. Anyway youre missing the point, portumna were playing county teams in challenges all year round, not that I think there is anything wrong with that, I just think that there was a belief out there held by most hurling people reillers aside that portumna were 10 - 15 points better than any other club team in the country, this I believe lead to portumna being a bit overconfident whether they said it or not.

I wouldn't agree that Ballyhale are much better than Portumna to be honest. If they were they wouldn't have been completely blitzed by them last year. Port just didn't really turn up to play yesterday until the 2nd half and just when it seemed they were getting a run on Ballyhale the keeper dropped one in the goalmouth and it was game over. Without the goal I think it would have been a tight enough finish. Port are a long time on the road and the hunger just didn't seem there yesterday. Their play was sloppy with a lot of misplaced passes and fumbling which is very unlike them. TJ Reid was very good for Ballyhale but he was quietened when Port finally put Eoin Lynch back on him but he had done most of his damage by then. Cuddihy also played really well at the back but Joe Canning was undoubtably the man of the match. Might have turned out a different day had he scored that early goal. Port will probably be back but they are not a young team anymore and haven't been doing much at underage in Galway. Joe Canning alone will keep them up there but they may even be vulnerable in the Galway county championship in the next year or two.

Portumna will be back, perhaps with a bit more humility, they were often playing county teams rather than club teams, and seemed to feel they were "too good" for any other club team in the country, in fact it was widely believed that portumna would beat a lot of county teams such was the esteem they were held in, I think Ballyhale may have banished that myth yesterday

Not sure I understand any of this. I can't remember Portumna coming out with anything of the sort.

No and I dont mean that they came out of anything of the sort. What I mean is that there was a perception in the country that Portumna were better than county teams, and even if the Portumna players didnt believe it at first, if everyone is saying it for two years, its bound  to affect them eventually. This coupled with playing intercounty teams (all year round) in challenges rather than club teams meant that they were getting the best preparation possible yes, but also possibly starting to believe a little of the hype.

Not saying anything bad against Portumna, just saying that if you are hyped up for a couple of years, you will subconciously start to believe it, they are only human.

AZOffaly,

There are an awful lot of teams that would give Portumna a game in late autumn or early spring. Most senior championships in the country go until october, and most teams are back training by January. There are easily 4 - 5 teams that wouldnt be anymore than 5-6 points off Portumna most days.

Reillers....its my first post of 2010...and again its about your comments...im beginning to think youre being paid by gaaboard.com to stir sh*t!!

On the game, the goal really took the wind out of portumna's sails, they didnt get going for 15- 20mins at the start of the game at which time ballyhale had about a 7-8 point margin, they were chipping away at it and i think it would have been a very close run thing had the goal not came.

TJ Reid was a masterclass yesterday, without doubt the man of the match, although some of joe cannings points were sublime. Portumna's number 5 wasnt moved in time, and really Ballyhale were far more composed on the ball, both in attack and defence they used a shor ball to get out of trouble and portumna were chasing shadows.

Its an unbelievable achievement for Ballyhale to win 5 all irelands, and i think this is probably the sweetest seeing as how they were being written off by most before the game. Portumna will be back, perhaps with a bit more humility, they were often playing county teams rather than club teams, and seemed to feel they were "too good" for any other club team in the country, in fact it was widely believed that portumna would beat a lot of county teams such was the esteem they were held in, I think Ballyhale may have banished that myth yesterday

I think 5 - 6 points is more like it to be honest, although we (offaly) have a tendancy to be beat around 10 - 12 points by these teams its generally because we give up with 10 - 15 mins to go, whether that be because of belief or heart i dont know. If you look at the cork game (2 points down with ten minutes to go) the KK game (8 points away but missed some chances) i think the players believe they are 10 - 15 points away, and give it a go for 50 mins but as soon as a team get 5 - 6 points on them, theres a kind of "here we go again" attitude which thankfully didnt happen against dublin.

Offaly had a good win, to be honest Offaly hurlers would have been focusing on this game and the one against Limerick to keep us in Division 1. Started well, didnt have the lead we deserved at half time, Dublin took some great scores from midfield, 7 points i think came from the two midfielders which is something Joe Dooley will have to look at. Dublin sounded a bit cocky before the game (looking at the rushe interview in the papers etc) and im not sure why dublin would be so confident?? To me Offaly, Dublin, Wexford, Clare & Limerick (With the exiled 29!!) are nearly on a par, all are about 5 - 6 points off Tipp, Cork & KK at the moment imo.

On Dublin beating Tipp, I know from someone on the Panel that they done seriously hard training the thursday and friday before the game, a lot of core and muscle building stuff and they really werent able to run about on the day.  So not trying to put Dublin hurling down, but I think ye may have slipped back a little from last year, but alll dublin supporters have to know, its going to take time, a genuine achievement for dublin over the next 4 - 5 years will be to stay in division 1 and perhaps win a leinster or at least get to another leinster final. Last year was a giant leap forward, you cant expect to take them every year, there is an unbelievable amount of interest in underage hurling in dublin, but its doubtful you will strike success with your first batch of competitive senior hurlers, the hardest thing to do in hurling is to bring a good minor / under 21 team up to senior level, be that at club or county level.

Back to Offaly, we can definately stay in division 1 which willl be a good start to the year, on the championship we could hope of a leinster final as the draw has been a lot kinder to us this year than last. After that either the qualifiers or the quarter finals will be a nice step forward. Lets hope that second half fade outs are a thing of the past from the faithful

Ranelagh Gaels are hoping to start their first adult hurling team in 2010. If you are intereseted in playing or getting involved in coaching or mentoring please get in contact with us. Newcomers to the sport of hurling are also welcome.

Email: ranelaghgaels.hurling@gmail.com

Hows the hurling team going?? If you need any quality cheap sliotars let me know!!

[Timmy McCarth]

Cork team for Saturday:

1. Donal Óg Cusack 2. Shane O'Neill 3. Eoin Cadogan
4. Shane Murphy 5. John Gardiner 6. Ronan Curran
7. Seán Óg Ó hAilpín 8. Tom Kenny 9. Jerry O'Connor
10. Ben O'Connor 11. Pa Cronin 12.Timmy McCarthy 13. Kieran Murphy
14. Aisake Ó hAilpín 15. Patrick Horgan

And that's curtains. FFS. We actually could have won this match, IF the right team was played, but that team in places defies logic. Season will be over by Saturday night I'd say.

No Brian Murphy, no Callinan..etc.
I genuinely thought we would win the game, but after seeing that team and then Galway's team, I'm not so sure. Walsh had a massive opportunity to put the best team out but he's gone back to the old reliables, yet again.
Has Timmy played a good game this year for Cork? No. Fraggie? No.
Gardiner's out of form Curran as well, while Callinan is the best player in Tullamore, but can't get a game.
There goes our season.

In fairness Gardiner was on top form against tipp, really played cork back into that game imo. I cant see why Callinan isnt playing myself, but id be willing to give Walsh the benefit of the doubt. Experience will be really needed tomorrow night if Cork are to have any hope.

I personally think Galway will win by a couple of points at least. The Cork backline is starting to get a little shaky, and its up against some of the best forwards in the country who are starting to gel well. Meanwhile the Cork forward line is really lost without joe deane, he and ben oconnor were the forwards they could rely on to get a few points from play every game. Now looking at the forward six, there is really only oconnor i would bet on getting the better of his man. A lot of the rest of the forwards are more big and akward rather than fast and accurate, so if lee and canning are on their game i could see cork in real trouble to get scores.

If this new rule is serious and enforced from next year on I'm afraid there will be plenty  who will be walking away from the game . Ten years down the road was plenty  of time for this rule change .  This is a disgraceful new rule   . Mark my words this rule will be put back for a few years .

Exactly my sentiments, no one is stupid enough not to wear a helmet to act "the hard man" as has been suggested earlier in this thread. It is compulsary at underage and id say about 60 - 70% of hurlers at senior grade wear them at the moment.  Within a few years players who grew up without a helmet will have retired so why not wait and let them have their last few years of hurling in peace. I know quite a few hurlers from my own club in their thirties...and indeed early forties that play at junior level. I think its a great thing to see, i hope im still playing at their age, but you will lose them players next year if you bring in this rule as they arent going to buy a helmet at their age and especially not with the recession!

Why shouldn't teams get relegated? One of the biggest problems we have in GAA fixturing is the delusions of grandure that many counties have, they'd rather get beaten in the AI competition than win a lower tiered competition. This idea that relegating a team will 'weaken' hurling is nonsense, if your not good enough to compete with the likes of Tipp, Limerick, Galway or Clare then you have no place in the AI in the first place. This is true of football too but to a lesser degree, there is nothing wrong with having 2 or 3 tiers in hurling and if counties want to improve it is best done through underage structures and not by taking 1 or 2 hammerings a year. The mess we find ourselves in this year is because the GAA is trying to be all things to all men and all that means is you end up pleasing no one.

But Clare could be relegated or are you suggesting that Wexford have no hope of beating them? I think it is very much 50/50 between Wexford and Clare

It certainly is a 50/50 battle. It would be a very tough one to call, a lot would depend on whether Stephen Banville is fit or not. If he is fit i think it could swing wexfords way