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[or the Ulster teams are too knackered by the time they get out of the province]

If it's an all munster final this year, it will be the second of the decade. What does that say about the relative strengths of the provinces?

All fair points, but that particular one cuts multiple ways: either Munster is the strongest province, or the Ulster teams are too knackered by the time they get out of the province, or whilst not the best overall province Munster has the best two teams in 2009 (and 2007)...

Such are the anomalies of the current structures that there are (almost) endless conjectures, and therein lies the confusion.

This is heading back to the "peaking" discussion again.
I don't agree with the bold text above.
Going by this logic if Dublin weren't knackered because of their exertions against Longford they would be looking at 5 in a row now.
I would imagine provincial champions get similar levels of free weeks before their 1/4 finals.
If they get caught here due to staleness, a back door team improving from regular games, peaking too soon, being knackered, picking up injuries etc. then bottom line they weren't good enough.
It's up to management and fitness coaches to get them right despite whatever games they had previously.

The years Tyrone and Armagh won was because they were the best teams that year. Not because they had an easy run through their provinces that particular year.
Unfortunately the same applies to Kerry 

I think, ahem! Timmy you have unfinished business before slaging Tyrone. We have dealt with Kerry in All Ireland finals. That All Ireland final debacle in 2007 was, ahem!   torturous. Hope youse get it rite this time

Not slagging Tyrone.
I have a huge respect for them.
Beating Kerry in an all-ireland is a major achievement.

Not as important as beating them in munster but an achievement nontheless 

I'm not talking about this year specifically Timmy, my point is more than in any given year it's likely that the Ulster Champs will have had a number of tough games to emerge (either through the front door or the back), but where the Munster Champs may have had one (usually yourselves against Kerry, an no disrepect to Limerick, Tipp, Waterford or Clare), and that the Munster Council actually operated a seeding system at one point so that you could only meet Kerry in the Provincial Final made something of a mockery of the Munster as a Championship.

Obviously we had an easy enough run of it in Ulster this year, whilst yourselves had a couple of tough games. I'm talking more about the general case, and whether there's merit in what I'm saying or not (I'm not convinced myself) the only way that it'll ever be proved one way or the other is when each team plays an identical number of games to reach the same stage of the competition. Like I say, that's another discussion.

There's a bit of a duopoly in Munster and nearly always has been.
However how many teams from Ulster have won the Ulster championship this decade?

Taking out the top 2, are Donegal, Down, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Derry, Antrim stronger than Limerick, Clare, Tipperary, Waterford.
In the past there you would have had to say Absolutely. In the 90s Donegal, Down and Derry both won Ulster championships and an all-ireland each.
This decade you would have to say yes but I don't think it's so clear cut.
Monaghan may have given Kerry a scare or 2. Derry seemed to be on the brink of a breathrough once or twice. But what have the second tier in Ulster actually won.
In Munster Tipperary had the beating of Cork in a Munster final and threw it away. Similarly limerick have hammered Cork and should have beaten them this year and last. They have also run Kerry close in the near past. So the Ulster second team is stronger but if they are of a similar level to munster and none of them actually make the breakthrough of a provincial championship then is Ulster that much harder?

Looking at the top 2 in each province you would have to say Kerry are top dogs in munster. Most of the team of the decade debate swings around their # of all-irelands versus the number of head to head wins Armagh and Tyrone have against them. But where do Cork fit in? And is getting past Cork in Munster the equivalent of beating one of the top 2 in Ulster.

In the 80s Mick O'Dwyer used to plámas us with the line that the toughest game they got on the way to the all-ireland was against Cork. Pure horse manure but would there be a grain of truth in it if applied to the past few years. We have beaten Kerry as many times, 4, as anyone this decade and they have recently been the only ones to beat us. How would Cork fare against Tyrone and Armagh has been an unanswered question for a while. They have answered that for 2009 on Sunday. Obviously we will never know what would have happened if they had met in previous years. (Although losing to Fermanagh may give an indication    )If it's an all munster final this year, it will be the second of the decade. What does that say about the relative strengths of the provinces?

[(the fact that we have to contend with Ulster and Kerry have to contend 'only' with Munster may be a factor, but that's another discussion)]

What's with Spillane? A few weeks ago he couldn't speak highly enough of Mickey Harte and Tyrone, though in private in Louth, but once again goes and makes a complete ass of himself in public. He may be correct to a degree of course, Kerry have won the All-Ireland more than anyone else this decade, and what's more they put two titles back-to-back, something that we've found well-nigh impossible to do, despite having taken the less tortuous path via the Ulster Championship (the fact that we have to contend with Ulster and Kerry have to contend 'only' with Munster may be a factor, but that's another discussion). A couple of words on the ref: bloody awful

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to agree with Spillane here.
But as Hardy would say, Ahem!
Tyrone didn't contend 'only' with a Munster team convincingly on Sunday.

As for Cork with nothing coming through....they have been in 4 of the last 6 all irelan U21 finals. They must have something coming through.

Agreed.
Given that we won the Junior All-Ireland against Roscommon this weekend and CIT won the Sigerson with 13 Cork men playing we should be able to field a team again next year 

Commentators saying how big the Cork Football team is, when supposed to be analysing their games.

There's a lot more to football than how tall one is. We might actually have a decent football team. Not that lazy arsed journalists can see that from behind their vertically challenged complex syndrome.

[The crucial moment for me was at the start of the second half a minute after O'Neill had left 4 in it. It looked like the Kildare game revisited. Mugsy took a free from where Canavan scored in 05 and dropped it short. You could see the annoyance on O'Neill's face.]

A couple of other things:

Tyrone's use of the extra man was a disaster. Ricey, then Harte, were simply marking space in the half back line whilst Cork camped in their own half. The extra man should've been deployed further up the field, giving Tyrone more options in a half forward line that didn't turn up. As said before, Mickey Harte had a bad day too.

Secondly, although Cork deserved to win, they were there for the taking too. Tyrone lost by 5 playing badly. The crucial moment for me was at the start of the second half a minute after O'Neill had left 4 in it. It looked like the Kildare game revisited. Mugsy took a free from where Canavan scored in 05 and dropped it short.  You could see the annoyance on O'Neill's face. If Tyrone had turned the screw then we would've seen what Cork were made of. Cork are well set up to defend a good lead. Level pegging with 10 mins left would've been a different matter.

i think this was a big turning point as well. if mugsy had've put it over the scoreline would have been 1-9 to 0-9 but cork went straight up the field and scored a point to go 5 ahead again. sean cavanagh also missed a very scorebale free and the free taking has been a major problem for tyrone.

I thought the biggest moment was when Sean Cavanagh flashed his shot just wide of the post.
One minute he was miles out and was well covered.
The next he had brushed past our full abck and the ball was in the side netting.
What way would the game of gone if that had gone the other side of the post?
But it didn't so it's probably best to forget about it.
You can tie yourself up in knots with "what ifs" 

Very predictable nature.....
If before the championship started one was to list out the top 3 teams in the country. Would you agree that if those 3 teams all made the semi finals then a championship is "predictable"?

http://www.setanta.com/uk/Blogs/Brian-Murphy/2009/04/Kingdom-closing-on-Tyrone-in-mid-season-appraisal/

As Billy Boots has said on another thread, Carney & Canning are some tools while commentating.
The free Gormley gave away at the start of the game was a touch ball on the ground.
But the 2 planks went on & on & f**king on that it wasnt a free.
For Christ sake, were they even watching the game

That was doing my head in also. Because the producer showed a couple of replays of Conor Gormley picking the ball cleanly the went on and on about the call. Saying how justice was done when O'Connor missed the free. Sure everyone saw Gormley stop the ball on the ground with his hand before picking it up. You'd wonder how the 2 of them missed it.

Did Tyrone's short kickout stategy work against them in the second half?
Fair enough they had guaranteed posession (so long as their backs didn't come inside the 21 to receive the ball :-) ) but by the time they worked the ball out the Cork half forwards and midfield had come back with the ball. Meaning inside the Cork 45 was hugely congested.
I say this because Stephen O'Neill looked unplayable in the first half but we didn't see any of him in the second.

Did they have any choice in their kickout strategy, given Cork seemed to have an edge on the kickouts in the first half?
Once Alan O'Connor was off and Cavanagh on would it have been worth a try to launch a few long in his direction?

Go on the rebels!

Delighted to get through and amazed at the performance.

Is this Tyrone team finished or are Cork playing at another level this year?

After knocking out Derry and Galway Donegal would have been seen as live contenders for the Cork match. Yet they were swatted aside.

No one thought Cork could do anything similar to Tyrone yet it was looking that they might just do that before the sending off.

I think this Cork team has been overhyped, they are still essentially the same players that have folded in major Croke Park occasions over the past few years, i don't think it will be any different this time tbh

Last year we had 3 games in Croke park.
Against Kildare we stormed ahead and had enough of a lead to protect when Kildare made a comeback. Admitedly we didn't react too great to the comeback but made it over the line.

Kerry rang rings around us in the next match. Out of nowhere we came back from 8 points down to draw the match. Some may put it down to fluke but you could hardly say the last ten minutes was a team that had folded.

Our final game we started really well everywhere except the scoreboard. We kicked an amount of wides and Kerry built up a decent lead. Again we reeled them in and were looking the more likely winners when Gooch popped up with a killer goal. This knocked Cork back but they were still hammering away at the final whistle.

Ths year we have had 2 games in Croke park against Monaghan and Donegal. You might argue that neither team put it up to us. I prefer to see all 5 matches as a steady progression in performance at HQ.

Fiachra is injured and not available I believe :-(

"I wouldn't entirely agree there Ogie, I think Lynch is a great option for FF "

Now playing Anthony Lynch at full forward would definitely confuse MH!!
I presume you are going for the defend from the front approach 

King isn't travelling for the next game apparently. So there's a spot for Bassong there.
How King is going to manage when he retires is beyond me.


Come on you spurs.