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I said armed thugs, you know men of violence who decided that  the Irish shouldnt be allowed to live or exist in their own Country.

Do you know who destroyed the old town of Doire / Colmcille?

Irish people getting a good Rogering from the chosen elect.

Is that my forefathers or your's or both on both sides? 

We're still here  and will be till the end of time.

I'd be fairly certain of that too. We Irish people will indeed be here 

Two many men getting too hung up about nothing on this thread.

If you're one of the few people in this world who is genuinely politically correct, and careful not to offend anyone with remarks they might find derogatory, then you are probably a boring b*st*rd and not worth having a conversation with.

If you're not one of these people, yet you get offended by other people's decriptions of place, then you're a hypocrite.

Good post. 

[Unihabited]

Unihabited and green field sites were popular in those days.

Uninhabited me arse .... when armed thugs had killed or expelled the people who had been living there. 

What was the name of that bad brit who destroyed it?

No need to change the current perfectly good name reflecting both main traditions in the city 

Surely Londinium is the Capital of the United Kingdom, as the foreign Roman Imperialists name of the city they built.

Kind of nice twist to Londonderry though isn't it.  It is a shared British and Irish name which should meet the standards set by nationalists. But don't tell Paisley's crowd about the Roman influence of the name London whatever you do. Or maybe you should, so he'd support deleting the London bit.  But then again that'd probaby mean the name remains the same with nationalist support.  Funny old part of the world.

Ya, Home Rule is Rome Rule! Ireland never had as much Rome Rule as London     Surely as an Irishman Roger you would prefer an Irish name on the city rather than an English one(as opposed to a British one), if I was a Northern Unionist I would be arguing Derry is a British name because is a name indigenous to a part of the United Kingdom (not that I agree personaly it should be).

The name Londonderry has a nice richness of all our history contained within, both Irish and British.  Getting rid of the London bit because it is British is simply a sectarian motive.  I've heard about people wanting to remove the insult, but who really is "insulted" by the name so much so that all this judicial process is required?  You need to get out more. It really is daft and petty mindedness by those pursuing it (never mind those who paint out the word London on road signs) and simply a stubborn response by those actively campaigning against renaming the city.  The place is called Londonderry but call it what you will and whatever is easiest to communicate (kind of the way it was in the 1911 census before there was sectarian intent on officially changing the name) and simply get on with it.  I call Carrickfergus simply "Carrick" or Newtownards simply "Ards" all the time but I know what their official names are and I don't give an aeronautical intercourse about it.  Now if someone decided to change them officially for some Politically sectarian reason then I'd oppose it. As all people who have a vested interest in a shared future should.

Surely Londinium is the Capital of the United Kingdom, as the foreign Roman Imperialists name of the city they built.

Kind of nice twist to Londonderry though isn't it.  It is a shared British and Irish name which should meet the standards set by nationalists. But don't tell Paisley's crowd about the Roman influence of the name London whatever you do. Or maybe you should, so he'd support deleting the London bit.  But then again that'd probaby mean the name remains the same with nationalist support.  Funny old part of the world.

Unionists likened to KKK yet again.  Nationalists insulted by the building and naming of a city.  Poor wee souls. 

Roger maybe they should have built the city in England 

Unihabited and green field sites were popular in those days.

Ireland is no more "occupied" than England is. 

Americans should be afforded their own welcoming term and be called 'aliens'.

Unionists likened to KKK yet again.  Nationalists insulted by the building and naming of a city.  Poor wee souls. 

I dont see why people dont like him so much.....He's a pretty quite family man, his kids aren't paraded all over the press. Doesn't stagger out of clubs drunk. "Roast" women...Get accused of raping women, Hit women, drink too much, miss random drug tests, take drugs.

What has he done to make you dislike him so much?

The management of his personal life in private is probably his most admirable trait. However, in my view he takes all his strengths that his admirers have identified way too far (single mindedness, professionalism, ruthlessness etc) so they become a weakness and he mixes them with bad temper, poor communication, and introversion.  This mix makes him into a very unlikable character imo.

Roger - at best he divides opinion. You may be unaware of this but quite a lot of people actually like and admire Roy Keane.

As a player he was pretty impressive and had the right platform at United to be so.  But he was pretty unlikable with it all the same.  As a manager, well he isn't up to much so far and he hasn't changed any of his unlikability in the right direction either. 

Another question for you Roger: do you think it was right, that before 1805 the non-Established Church Protestants (aka Dissenters, i.e., anything but Church of Ireland/Anglicans) were prohibited from joining the Orange Order?

I have no opinion on it.

Not being smart, but that doesn't surprise me.

To me, it's a fairly important part of recent Irish history, in that it allowed the powers that were to get a majority on their side, at the cost of a diminution of wealth. But that was something that they were prepared to accept insofar as it would lead to an ulitmately superior force to subjugate those who would oppose.

I know for a fact that erstwhile Dissenters don't like to think that they were ever outside of the golden circle, and Anglicans don't like to think that they ever had such venom for anyone other than the Taigs  . I also know that Church of Ireland get a hard time from the Presbys, Methodists, Baptists, etc., hard though that may be to believe.

I don't really care about 1805 and the Orange Order.  I don't think any of my ancestors came from the Anglican Church and I'm well aware that Presbyterians (probably my background but not solely) would have me labelled a Blackmouth due to discrimination but I find it irrelevant to me in 2009.