Messages

Doc challenge was much more deliberate than coc and for me that makes it the least acceptable of the two. Coc didn't raise his arm above the horizontal, to me he didn't go out of his way to strike the head of the corner-back. It's an off the ball challenge and a red but not worth the angst that it's causing so many haters.

Doc knew exactly what he was doing though, in his eyes it was payback and despite being the player who'll get off more likely in was definitely the more vindictive challenge.

Considering DOC more or less carried a Mayo U21 All Ireland it's amazing how he has never pushed on to be a top senior footballer. They just don't seem to be bringing any fresh blood into the team and come the summer it will be the same senior players they are relying on. I'd question the coaching in the county that they can't bring through any decent two footed forwards in years

You're right it has to be something with the coaching. Maybe if the gaa could send a few million quid down this way we could sort it out

Mayo 0-13 Monaghan 0-12 full time.

A bit of a smash and grab at the end. We'll take it! 

For sure. From my vantage point on the radio, it seems Caff had a good game. I hope he keeps it up. Regan and Douglas will also give Rochford food for thought after their scoring rate. Andy must be some boy. Monaghan, not for the first time lost the head it seems. Good start to the year. Kerry (who keep referring to last August's loss to Mayo as the worst thing that ever happened) up next. Revenge will surely be on their minds.

Lost their heads? You mean to include Ryan Wylie in that assessment, who picked up a 2nd yellow after Aiden O'Shea collapsed to the turf? A wise person would want to see that incident before making comment. 
The crucial difference according to the objective radio commentary sponsored by Sam's Diner, was the ref not seeing a foul in the last Monaghan attack and instead awarded a free out for a handled ball on the ground,  that led to Mayo scoring  a fine winner instead of Monaghan.

  So great wise one. Did you see the incident in question. Or did you see any of the numerous incidents when Aidan O'Shea was taken out of it of the ball. The thing is Monaghan could have won this but yet again were let down by indiscipline

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying here Lar.

This case is fairly clear. This monster used his position as a GAA coach to prey on and abuse young boys. He was found guilty of this thanks to the evidence of five brave men. God only knows how many more victims didnt get the opportunity or just couldnt find it in themselves to come forward

Despite this when all facts were heard and the jury had made its decision a senior club official from the very same club where the boys were abused provides a character witness for the accused  in which he speaks in glowing terms about his mentoring and coaching skills. For christ sake, the monster hadn't coached in the club in 30 years and the last time he did these offences occurred. I think its wrong that this kind of shite can be handed into a court in any case let alone something like this. Its not sworn evidence so should have no relevance to a judges decision on sentencing. If its not been used to try and influence a judge what is the purpose of it.

I'm sure the victims were delighted to know they had such great support from the club and the GAA in general.

I see this case is back in the news

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-gaa-coach-jailed-for-seven-years-for-dozens-of-indecent-assaults-on-two-young-boys-36308209.html

Here are a couple of articles  Eamon Sweeney wrote about it a while back

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/hold-the-back-page-courage-takes-many-forms-30282655.html

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/eamonn-sweeney-real-bravery-is-surviving-abuse-eric-35265976.html

I thinks its fair to say this guy was a monster who used his position as coach of the u12 team to prey on young boys.

When it comes to character references for someone like this what do people think is acceptable. Would it be right for a high up official in Eastern Harp and Sligo GAA to write a glowing reference for the court describing how he was a great community man and attributing the skills of current players to this monsters great coaching and mentor ship. 

Financial Doping is the BIG Issue! F***ing S**tloads of money into one county and expecting all the rest to keep up with volunteers makes the whole thing farcical. Not to mention the HOME game farce we have to put up with every year.

Dublin are treated like royalty.

Some serious financial doping being done in Connaught, it a disgrace, wont some think of Leitrim please.

Mayo 1,632,448 compared to Leitrims  378,101. EUR

Crazy stuff.

Look, I know you're not the sharpest tool in the box and with the big step up into secondary school, things cant be easy for you but surely to god even you can figure out why a team who played in the championship over 3 months longer then the other may spend more money.

And that's simplifying it for you. I wouldn't even dare ask you to consider other expenses like underage team, players TRAVELLING to training, stays in Dublin for matches in croke park, etc etc.

Instead of all this money been pumped into Dublin GAA I think consideration should be put into spending a few more bob on the education system in the capital.

I think ye are totally missing the point

Most Mayo fans I know have moved on from the All Ireland final and cannot wait for 2018. We know the limitations we had as to why we didn't get over the line this year and hope we can address them in 2018

No doubt what Lee Keegan did was cynical and could have been very costly if the referee had seen it. Although it wasn't the most difficult kick in the world for Rock, if it had been moved in it would have been a cert. It definitely isn't something anyone wants to see in the game no matter if an All Ireland is at stake or the first round of a club championship. But the thing is there are rules to stop it.

Trying to say that Dublin players wouldn't do the same is just nonsense. Philly McMahon, a man who is known to engage in any dark art to win a game has already said he would have thrown his jersey at Rock if he thought it would be an advantage.  He probably didn't do it to Cillian O'Connor because he presumed if caught it would only be making the free easier.

But the whole debate about the way Dublin finished the game is another topic altogether. If Cillian O'Connor had put that free over, id expect the Mayo players to do the exact same thing as Dublin did and if we won an All Ireland I'd have no problem sucking up the flak that came with it. I know full well it wouldn't be right but sure fcuk it "you do what you have to do" 

So why are Dublin so upset now when called out on it. Grand you do what you have to do to win the game but surely you have to accept the stick that comes with it. Dublin supporters are the first on the high horse when another team does something like this. You still hear some of them harping on about 2012 semi but in the 2013 final it was all the referees fault. The 5 All Ireland's aren't enough. We must accept they are the greatest team ever, they have the greatest individual footballers ever, they play the greatest brand of football ever and of course they wouldn't even dream as stooping so low as to engage in the type of cynical football others engage in. They don't like any media coverage that may suggest different. 

A black card was brought in to deal with this kind of thing and it obviously doesn't work. Despite Sean Cavanagh getting the blame the black card was introduced after the 2012 semi and the 2013 final. People shrugged their shoulders at the end of these games and said the same as they are saying now. "You do what you have to do". A half arsed effort was brought in to deal with but as this years final shows it was pointless.

So we are at a stage that we just accept that this is part of the game or do we deal with it by bringing in new rules to stop it. It looks like a lot of people want to bury their head in the sand and get on with it. That's all fine and well until the day the roles are reversed and you come out of the game shaking your in frustration that such a great game can end up in such a farce because rules aren't there or aren't  been enforced to stop it happening.

How do you define what is cheating and spot it though?
In more extreme cases such as hauling down a player who is bearing down on goal usually causes uproar, but what about the corner forward who pushes his marker to get the few yards of space. 

What if he scores a goal as a result? Is this cheating?

Yes. Call it intentionally breaking the rules to gain an advantage if cheating sounds too harsh.

Is diving any worse than claiming a sideline ball when you know it came off you? One is deemed cheating, the other part and parcel of the game?

BC1 suggestion for 14 yard frees would be interesting but given how few and far between black cards are i would take it further. Penalty for Black Card offenses and when the foul limit kicks in 14 yard free.

I don't think there's a rule against claiming a sideline ball when you know rightly that it's not your ball but personally I'd equate it to the same as diving.

You can't get someone booked or ticked by claiming a sideline ball.

What's the relevance of that?

You can gain an unfair advantage if you con the referee, similar to when you dive or pull a jersey off the ball.

How do you get an unfair advantage from claiming a sideline ball. If the ball went off you well surely the ref and linesman will see this and give the ball to the other team. How can we tell when a player claims a sideline ball that he didn't legitimately think it went of an opposition player.

Similar with diving. Its very hard to enforce unless its a pretty obvious dive.

Back in 2004, long before several of Jack McCaffrey's teammates hauled Mayo defenders to the ground to prevent them from receiving a kickout in the closing moments of an All-Ireland final, his father Noel, along with some other eminent academic colleagues, conducted a study into the attitudes of Irish athletes towards cheating.

What they found was that athletes essentially identified three distinct sets of rules: What was actually in the rule book, the officials' interpretation of those rules, and then the players' own code. The latter was what truly counted. It was only cheating, unfair, if you violated the players' code.

In a sport like golf, the three were pretty much consistent. It wasn't just the rule book or course officials who frowned on someone who replaced a ball a few centimetres closer to the hole. If you violated that rule, you violated the players' code, even your own conscience. You just didn't do it.

In team sports, they found the "moral reasoning" was considerably lower, especially in the GAA. At the time something like kicking an opponent on the ground or eye-gouging was viewed as unacceptable in the eyes of fellow players, but holding a forward's jersey, or a forward pulling down a defender to win a free and fool a ref, was deemed fair enough.

"The referee knows that people are going to try and take an advantage so the onus is more on him," said one Gaelic footballer who participated in the study. "If you get a chance to steal a few yards or hold someone's jersey off the ball, you're going to do it."

Thirteen years on and that study can seem a bit dated. Sports have moved on and the researchers haven't stayed still either.

One of them, Dr Tadhg MacIntyre, has also investigated attitudes towards doping and is currently researching the area of match fixing; he and his colleagues in the University of Limerick's health research institute have teamed up with seven other institutions across Europe, conducting surveys and interviews with referees, players, and coaches with the view of preventing match-fixing and promoting values-driven behaviour in sport.

But he still keeps a close eye on Gaelic Games and has seen that while the sport has admirably reduced and even rooted out certain unsavoury behaviours, it has continued to tolerate and even spawn certain others.

It may not yet have spiralled to the level of base moral reasoning prevalent for so long in professional cycling where doping has been an accepted norm, but it has no reason to feel complacent.

"If we continue down the road where the outcome is the be-all and end-all," he says, "we could end up where [GAA participants] could decide it is more advantageous to dope or to engage in match fixing and other murky activities. That threat is real. That cliff is there."

MacIntyre is not being alarmist. He's been rounded and reasoned.

As he notes, Gaelic Games has made considerable strides in the policing of its game over the last 15 years or so.

In his autobiography Shane Curran detailed brilliantly in a chapter called Crime and Punishment the absolute recklessness that prevailed on the killing fields of Roscommon in the early 1990s.

At the time he was considered one of the best corner-forwards in the county but after the continuous blackguarding he received off-the-ball, he headed off to America in disgust and would only play in goal upon his return. He saw another team-mate give the game up altogether after he had his teeth and jaw broken by an opponent.

In psychological parlance, such acts would be described as examples of 'hostile' aggression: where someone would act out of anger or frustration and a desire to see someone hurt or punished. The GAA has made huge strides in reducing the level of hostile aggression.

These days you're a lot more likely to leave the field with your teeth intact — and not just because you have to wear a mouthguard.

There's another type of aggression though which the GAA is struggling with — what MacIntyre and his colleagues would term 'instrumental' aggression. Here the intention isn't to maim or even injure an opponent — it's just to hurt and stop that opponent's attempt to win. It's nothing personal, strictly business. Cold-blooded, not hot-headed.

Nowadays a corner-back is a lot less likely to break a corner forward's jaw — but he's a lot more likely to engage in trash talking with him. And as the All-Ireland final illustrated, that corner-forward in turn is a lot more inclined to drag down that corner-back in the last minute to defend a narrow lead.

The GAA has made some strides in this regard. The introduction of the black card was an acknowledgement that too much 'instrumental' aggression — or 'cynicism' as GAA people more widely describe it — was going unpunished. As controversial as it has been and for all the hard cases and wrong calls it has triggered, overall it has been good for the game.

The Sunday Game panel often say they're sick of reviewing black card incidents but what they forget is that they'll never get to review all the challenges that DIDN'T happen because of the existence and threat of the black card.

Lee Keegan would not score as often as he does if there was no black card. He'd be hauled down a lot more often instead.

But if the black card is a factor in why this year's All-Ireland final was probably the best of the last 35 years, the lack of a black ball to go with it is why the last minute of such a spectacle was so unedifying.

This column has been flagging this one for some time. On the eve of the introduction of the black card — and just weeks after another Dublin-Mayo All-Ireland final decided by a point — I wrote: "Teams will gladly take a couple of black cards in the closing minutes, further institutionalising and normalising such fouls.

A player won't mind missing the closing minutes of a game if his act has made his team more likely to win. He'll even relish the martyrdom of taking one for the team.

"But what if such deliberate fouls were punished on the scoreboard? Take Kevin McManamon deliberately hauling down Lee Keegan late on in this year's [2013] All-Ireland final. In 2014 McManamon would most likely commit the same foul again with just minutes to go, even if it meant his team was reduced to 14 men.

But if the ball was brought to a mark 25 metres out from goal, Cillian O'Connor put it over the bar and play resumed with a Mayo free from where Keegan was fouled, he'd be less inclined to commit that foul."

In other high-scoring sports they essentially have a black ball to go with a black card. In basketball, if you commit an intentional or technical foul, the opponent is awarded with free throws.

Sometimes those fouls are acts of instrumental aggression, daring the opponent to punish such cynicism by making the shot, executing a skill, but at least the opponent gets the chance to punish you with skill. In football, you don't. And so, in 2017, Ciarán Kilkenny is still doing what Kevin McManamon did in 2013.

It's not just Dubs. It's Keegan himself, throwing a GPS at Dean Rock this year, wrestling Diarmuid Connolly to the ground two years ago. It's supposedly all the top teams.

"I would expect it from anyone who has ambitions of winning an All-Ireland," Kerry's Paul Geaney said last week. "Kill or be killed. It is part and parcel of the game."

But it doesn't have to be part and parcel of the game. It's only part and parcel of the game because the GAA's culture and rules tolerate it.

If it's the game Geaney and the GAA wants, fair enough, as long as they understand this: If it is all about kill or be killed and win at all costs, then the GAA — from Geaney's clubfield in Dingle all the way to Croke Park — is not entitled to a single cent from the State.

All Government funding for sport, especially one that claims to be an amateur and community-based one, is working off the premise and assumption that sport is character-building, that it promotes the better values of humanity.

You watch the closing minutes of an NBA game and the spirit it is played in is no different to the closing minutes of an U15 game you'll see in the Parochial or Oblate Hall tonight.

Stephen Curry will never stoop to throwing a GPS at LeBron James, or James will never resort to stealing Curry's kicking tee. At what stage do we feel it's fine for kids playing football — for the club, the community — to haul their opponents down and prevent them from taking a kickout? U14? U16? Minor? In 2021, will we again have to watch Dublin and Mayo men rugby-tackling each other in the closing minutes of another All-Ireland final?

Jarlath Burns and the rules revision committee are making strides to reward skill. The mark worked. The black ball would work too. Football needs more interventions and deterrents like it to shape a higher moral reasoning. Otherwise it'll just continue to cheat itself.

As for the dragging down players. If you are ok with what went on at the end of the game, fine so be it. Many's the person have said you do what ever it takes to win so your opinion is not unique  but don't even try and dismiss it by comparing it to what Canavan did 10 years ago. It wasn't one player dragged down of the ball but a team effort using illegal means to slow down the kickout and prevent Clarke finding a man.

had the referred had seen 3 Dublin players pull down  mayo players and Costellos  action that would have been 4 black cards and Dublin would have finished with 11 possibly 12 players depending on how many subs they had used .
id have fancied mayo chances to have equalized ....

Are you forgetting what actually happened lads?

There was a number of incidents going on before the Clarke kick out, so McQuillan blew the whistle and stopped him kicking out. McQuillan picked out Costello (for the tee incident perhaps?) and gave him a yellow. He picked out Kilkenny for a drag down and gave him a black. He added on another nearly 2 minutes for this. So the Dublin cynicism in no shape worked, in fact it probably backfired with the added time and one less man on the pitch. 

Clarke then took the kick with Mayo having an extra man. But he made a balls of it. There were two men in the vicinty of Brogan, neither of whom were being fouled. Clarke kicked it over all their heads and out for a sideline! Calm head was required.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that Mayo adopted the same kick out disruption tactic in the first ten minutes - holding the full back line. Dragging players to the ground.

Not even close. You are just making stuff up now.

As for the dragging down players. If you are ok with what went on at the end of the game, fine so be it. Many's the person have said you do what ever it takes to win so your opinion is not unique  but don't even try and dismiss it by comparing it to what Canavan did 10 years ago. It wasn't one player dragged down of the ball but a team effort using illegal means to slow down the kickout and prevent Clarke finding a man.

had the referred had seen 3 Dublin players pull down  mayo players and Costellos  action that would have been 4 black cards and Dublin would have finished with 11 possibly 12 players depending on how many subs they had used .
id have fancied mayo chances to have equalized ....

Are you forgetting what actually happened lads?

There was a number of incidents going on before the Clarke kick out, so McQuillan blew the whistle and stopped him kicking out. McQuillan picked out Costello (for the tee incident perhaps?) and gave him a yellow. He picked out Kilkenny for a drag down and gave him a black. He added on another nearly 2 minutes for this. So the Dublin cynicism in no shape worked, in fact it probably backfired with the added time and one less man on the pitch. 

Clarke then took the kick with Mayo having an extra man. But he made a balls of it. There were two men in the vicinty of Brogan, neither of whom were being fouled. Clarke kicked it over all their heads and out for a sideline! Calm head was required.

But thats not exactly what happened.
Clarke took kickout but as McQuillan had already blown the whistle he brought it back. And rightly so. Costello's yellow was for dragging his man down, nothing to do with the tee. Why it was yellow is beyond me. Kilkennys black was called by the linesman, and the the other two incidents were ignored. 2 minutes added on because it took Joe so long to deal with it and walk Kilkenny off the field.

You are right thou. Clarke did make a balls of the kickout so it seems the distraction and delay tactics did work

One thing I've wondered since. Why no footage of this kickout. Why did the RTE producer feel the need to pan in on Rochford when all this was happening on the pitch

I thought I was finished with the game and the result and the snapping and bitching that followed it but, after reading what both Tómás Ó Sé and Alan Brogan had to say on the result and especially on that Lee Keegan incident, I think it's worth repeating here.
I was very surprised at the amount of  sanctimonious horseshit that was spouted in the wake of Keegan's gamesmanship. I mean there wasn't a single player on the field who wouldn't resort to dubious tactics if he found himself in the same position as Keegan was when Rock prepared to take the free. T
Tómás had this to say:
"I see a big hullaballoo now over Lee Keegan throwing that GPS tracker unit at Rock as he lined up that last decisive free and, if I'm honest, it just makes me laugh.
People might regard that as bad sportsmanship, but those same people clearly don't understand what it's like out there in the bear-pit. Look, I accept that what he did wasn't right, but I've just no appetite for the piety flowing from some quarters now.
Put it this way, up to four Dublin forwards could have been black-carded for their behaviour while Clarke was trying to take that last kick-out. How do you ref that?
It was all desperately cynical but, while we might not like to admit it, I'd venture a suggestion that one of the reasons Sunday's game was so compelling was because of that very ruthlessness. The almost unscrupulous pursuit of victory.
I mean look at Rock after he lands that trojan score. His next act is to run and slam his opponent into the back. While he was doing that, team-mates began wrestling their direct opponents to the ground. You won't see a more cynical close to any game, anywhere, any time."

I see sweet damn all to disagree with in that.
Nobody went onto the field to provide entertainment for the masses. It's a great pity but that the inevitable consequence of the pressure for success players are put under by fans and media alike.

Alan didn't beat about the bush either.
The title of his article is:  "You do what you have to when the game is on the line."
One paragraph in particular stood out, for me at least.
" But gamesmanship, defined as the use of methods, especially in a sports contest, that are dubious or seemingly improper but not strictly illegal is common practice amongst the most successful Gaelic teams and it would be difficult to compete without understanding how to push the boundaries that a referee provides."
Personally, I don't like the amount of cynicism and gamesmanship that's to be found in the game today but there's no point in pretending otherwise. Players at this level don't set out to entertain and will go as far as the ref allows in pursuit of victory.

BTW, this is  also from Ó'Sé:
"And, by the way, the argument doing the rounds right now about Dublin GAA getting too much money, in my view, misses the point. What people should be focusing on is how they use that money so well.
Remember, Mayo probably have about a tenth of the Dubs' financial resources, yet only the tiniest of margins separate them on the field. If you ask me, it's high time other counties got their heads out of the sand and began focusing on self-help here."
I see nothing wrong with that either.

Excellent post Lar, thanks for sharing. My initial reaction to the GPS thing was probably a little ott - perhaps as it was something I'd never come across before (throwing something at a freetaker). Perhaps the case should be made for banning ALL GPS trackers!

O'Sé's last piece is absolutely correct. There always has and always will be inequality in the GAA. The beauty is that the "haves" don't always win because there are intangible things (that GPS trackers can't measure) that are often the difference.

I think this defence for Lee Keegan that anyone would do it is ridiculous. No one has done it before and I'd say no one has even thought about it. A huge to leap from pulling down players to throwing a GPS at someone.  I remember Canavan pulling down Colm Cooper in the last minute of an All Ireland final to stop him from getting forward for the goal Kerry needed.

I also don't remember anyone throwing anything at Cillian O'Connor this year or last year when he was taking a free deep into injury time.  It's seems because Dean Rock scored the free the GAA can pretend it didn't happen. What's to stop players throwing water bottles at free takers from now on. By not penalising Lee Keegan how can the GAA punish somebody else who trys the same thing?

I don't think anyone is saying it's right. There are hundreds of things that go on in every game that are against the rules and go unpunished. That's why I find the Sunday evening selective highlighting of incidents so wrong. Highlight them all or none at all.

I thought I was finished with the game and the result and the snapping and bitching that followed it but, after reading what both Tómás Ó Sé and Alan Brogan had to say on the result and especially on that Lee Keegan incident, I think it's worth repeating here.
I was very surprised at the amount of  sanctimonious horseshit that was spouted in the wake of Keegan's gamesmanship. I mean there wasn't a single player on the field who wouldn't resort to dubious tactics if he found himself in the same position as Keegan was when Rock prepared to take the free. T
Tómás had this to say:
"I see a big hullaballoo now over Lee Keegan throwing that GPS tracker unit at Rock as he lined up that last decisive free and, if I'm honest, it just makes me laugh.
People might regard that as bad sportsmanship, but those same people clearly don't understand what it's like out there in the bear-pit. Look, I accept that what he did wasn't right, but I've just no appetite for the piety flowing from some quarters now.
Put it this way, up to four Dublin forwards could have been black-carded for their behaviour while Clarke was trying to take that last kick-out. How do you ref that?
It was all desperately cynical but, while we might not like to admit it, I'd venture a suggestion that one of the reasons Sunday's game was so compelling was because of that very ruthlessness. The almost unscrupulous pursuit of victory.
I mean look at Rock after he lands that trojan score. His next act is to run and slam his opponent into the back. While he was doing that, team-mates began wrestling their direct opponents to the ground. You won't see a more cynical close to any game, anywhere, any time."

I see sweet damn all to disagree with in that.
Nobody went onto the field to provide entertainment for the masses. It's a great pity but that the inevitable consequence of the pressure for success players are put under by fans and media alike.

Alan didn't beat about the bush either.
The title of his article is:  "You do what you have to when the game is on the line."
One paragraph in particular stood out, for me at least.
" But gamesmanship, defined as the use of methods, especially in a sports contest, that are dubious or seemingly improper but not strictly illegal is common practice amongst the most successful Gaelic teams and it would be difficult to compete without understanding how to push the boundaries that a referee provides."
Personally, I don't like the amount of cynicism and gamesmanship that's to be found in the game today but there's no point in pretending otherwise. Players at this level don't set out to entertain and will go as far as the ref allows in pursuit of victory.

BTW, this is  also from Ó'Sé:
"And, by the way, the argument doing the rounds right now about Dublin GAA getting too much money, in my view, misses the point. What people should be focusing on is how they use that money so well.
Remember, Mayo probably have about a tenth of the Dubs' financial resources, yet only the tiniest of margins separate them on the field. If you ask me, it's high time other counties got their heads out of the sand and began focusing on self-help here."
I see nothing wrong with that either.

Excellent post Lar, thanks for sharing. My initial reaction to the GPS thing was probably a little ott - perhaps as it was something I'd never come across before (throwing something at a freetaker). Perhaps the case should be made for banning ALL GPS trackers!

O'Sé's last piece is absolutely correct. There always has and always will be inequality in the GAA. The beauty is that the "haves" don't always win because there are intangible things (that GPS trackers can't measure) that are often the difference.

I think this defence for Lee Keegan that anyone would do it is ridiculous. No one has done it before and I'd say no one has even thought about it. A huge to leap from pulling down players to throwing a GPS at someone.  I remember Canavan pulling down Colm Cooper in the last minute of an All Ireland final to stop him from getting forward for the goal Kerry needed.

I also don't remember anyone throwing anything at Cillian O'Connor this year or last year when he was taking a free deep into injury time.  It's seems because Dean Rock scored the free the GAA can pretend it didn't happen. What's to stop players throwing water bottles at free takers from now on. By not penalising Lee Keegan how can the GAA punish somebody else who trys the same thing?

First things first. He didn't throw it at Rock, he threw it at the football. I know it doesn't make it quite as dramatic but thems the facts. You probably haven't seen it before because players are only using these good damn gps trackers the last few years.
Secondly If Joe McQuillan had seen it he would have definitely punished Mayo and Keegan by moving the free in. He may even have issued a yellow card. What kind of action should the GAA now take to make up for this outrageous oversight by McQuillan which will appease the Dublin faithful.

As for the dragging down players. If you are ok with what went on at the end of the game, fine so be it. Many's the person have said you do what ever it takes to win so your opinion is not unique  but don't even try and dismiss it by comparing it to what Canavan did 10 years ago. It wasn't one player dragged down of the ball but a team effort using illegal means to slow down the kickout and prevent Clarke finding a man.

Throwing the gps at direction of the ball/player has been blown all out out proportion in my view, an act of desperation that is the same as someone shouting at a player taking a free or goal keeper banging the cross bar or the player throwing his hurl at the ball to try and block it... it's the final moments of an All Ireland final!

Third defeat by a single  point ! Give the man a break ffs! The amount of off the ball crap that goes on in games and this incident gets the headlines!!

Is it much different to taking the goalies tees to prevent a kick out or balls mysteriously appearing on the pitch when someone is about to kick it. Sledging a free taker seems to have become acceptable but what Keegan did is an all time low. 
The only reason someone hasn't done this before is because they are only wearing these bloody things the last couple of years. If the referee spotted what Keegan did the free would have been moved forward and that would probably be the end of it. We would all be saying what a stupid thing to do.
Charlie and his crew should just try and enjoy the win and try and forget about this unhealthy obsession with Keegan. The Dublin players have the All Ireland's. Is this not enough. Why the need to kick a man when he's down.

Seen Redmond crying in the Herald there,about a new low, nearly as low as staying on the pitch after been sent off in a final, the worst action of the game was O`Gara which wasn't mentioned at all, or no mention of Costello throwing away kicking tees, blue blinkers on as always. Alot of ex dublin players like him and Murphy would put you off admiring this great Dublin team.

Agree with this.

I had a great day Sunday. Really enjoyed the match, except for the result obviously. Was very proud of the Mayo team and sometimes you just have to accept you were beaten by the better team. During and after the match I was annoyed with some of McQuillans decisions, the non penalty most of all, but in these games its swings and roundabouts. After the match I couldn't stomach hanging around Drumcondra with the "only bleedin banter brigade" and instead had a few pints with some proper true blue gaa men. Obviously they were delighted with the result and the three in row but they were able to chat about the match without feeling the need to belittle Mayo with the nonsense trash talk I've seen all over social media the last few days.

I've been going to Mayo - Dublin matches for manys the year and always enjoy them. The majority of the Dublin support are 100% but the vocal minority who are egged on by gobshites like Charlie Redmond and Vinnie Murphy along with these so called "fan" pages on social media are hard to put up with.

I think I've had three reasonable answers to the questions I posed and thanks to those who took the trouble to reply.
The attitude to the negative policies of some, especially northern, counties was my main interest.
It seems all of us believe that the end justifies the means and that whatever it takes to win comes before entertaining anyone. Now, Dub supporters by and large were very critical of Tyrone  and their negative tactics in the semi, forgetting it seems that Mickey &co. were more afraid of losing rather that confident of winning.
They played the way that gave them the best prospect of winning as they couldn't hope to match the Dubs if they went toe to toe. It was a case of damage limitation before the ref threw the ball in. They knew they weren't going to score much but they concentrated on trying to prevent Dublin scoring more than them and feck the spectacle.
I imagine Mayo is the only county that wouldn't go on the back foot when playing Dublin but I may be biased here. However, I don't think so.
@The Greatest.
No, I don't blame the Dubs for Mayo's defeats in any year you care to mention. I wasn't referring to Mayo in any sense. It's just that the Hill is Blue fella always struck me as a reasonable individual but the stuff he came out with in his last post astounded me. Talk about cliches and generalisations!  I get a lot of that stuff in my local alright but I was curious to see how many Dubs would think the way he does.

Lar, I'm puzzled as to which post of mine you're referring.

I think he's mixing you up with someone else
Lar, stay with the program. its Hill16 Blues and I wouldn't be really putting much thought into what that jackass say.

This site is inhabited by a small number of fair minded, balanced individuals but in the main by a bunch of hate filled cnuts! its hard to work out which particular group here is worse, the bitter, chip on the shoulder Northern haters or the desperate delusional Mayo Dub hating contingent?? Always someone else's' fault. Always an excuse no matter how you fcuk up yourselves. Denial lads - it ain't a bleedin river in Egypt 😀

I suppose it doesn't matter a fcuk! It's just brilliant and an honour to bear witness to this Dublin team, the way they play the game, the skill, the mental resolve and their pure never say die ability to win tough football matches. And you know what lads your jealousy, hatred, pathetic small minded innuendos & lies just makes our triumphs so much the sweeter.

As we've come to say in Dublin GAA circles fcuk the haters and most definitely fcuk the begrudgers! See y'all again in 12 months COYBIB! #4inarow

You know Sam is truly resting in the capital when this man logs in to have his yearly outburst