Messages

I honestly don't think we have any MF,  right now, who are at the standard of the options in Dublin, Donegal, Mayo or Kerry.

That being said it's near impossible to develop into a good intercounty player unless you have some consistency in terms of playing, tactics and surrounding cast.

Harte needs to decide who his main MF 2 are (preferably ones who play club MF) and stick with them for a period.

Kilpatrick and Kennedy are inexperienced and unproven but both deserve extended runs to prove themselves.

R Donnelly is probably our most established option there, is he a natural midfielder though? Out of our current options I'd have him starting though but he seems pretty injury prone and lacks a bit of mobility.

After that I'd have McClure, has had some decent cameos but a bit like R Donnelly, is he a natural midfielder or a half forward, he also lacks a bit of presence midfielders from other counties have.

The likes of McKenna, Donnelly and Hampsey are not midfielders and are needed elsewhere.

Kennedy and R Donnelly weren't involved last week, Kennedy was named on the bench but withdrawn before throw in.

If both are out I'd go with McClure and Kilpatrick for Sunday, I think it will makes the other lines of our team stronger and won't sufficiently weaken the midfield.

We'll probably see Hampsey and Ben McDonnell there though.

Now Cavanagh is gone Brian Kennedy is the only natutal midfielder we have who could match the physicality of the likes of Murphy, Hugh McFadden, Fenton, David Moran, or the Mayo lads like the O'Se's and Ruane. Kilpatrick and McClure simply don't have the size so if they were if to play I think we need to pair them with Kennedy. I'm no fan of McDonnell but he does put himself about and do the dog work that I dont think McClure and Kilpatrick do. This is why I think he gets game time (any Errigal bias notwithstanding).

As I've said on here before this lack of physicality at midfield is a bit of a common theme with Tyrone teams. I thought the u20s had the same problem last week compared to the Dubs although Oguz would have been a big loss for them

He is worth a place on the panel, and he would be on it if he hadn't left at the end of the 2018 season. But I don't buy the idea that he's a guaranteed starter if he came back. In any case, he won't be back for this year so we should forget about him. In my opinion, when fit, Brian Kennedy should start every game at the middle of the field for us and I can't understand why he didn't at least come off the bench at the weekend

[I'd rather we went with actual midfielders than moving forwards and defenders out there.]

The thing about getting rid of Harte, is there an outstanding candidate available? I don't really see anything inside the county at present that I would look as a marked improvement on Harte. I think a lot of our underage teams in recent years have underachieved and no club manager has been able to do back to backs in Tyrone to make them a viable candidate.

Canavan has that x factor but he has a nice little gig going as it is and I really don't think he'd be interested. He hasn't really managed anyone of note since Fermanagh anyway?

Would we hire an outsider? Malachy O'Rourke did a great job with Monaghan and I think he'd do well with Tyrone but I don't see him bringing the swashbuckling football some seem to think we should be playing. I couldn't see McGuinness taking the job or the Tyrone Co Board affording him but I think he could work wonders with this bunch of players.

Anything to be said for Fergal Logan and his team from the U21 All Ireland winners of 2015 of Canavan and Dooher, even adding someone like Collie Holmes as well?
Majority of that panel have been brought through (potentially could even get Brennan, McNulty, Mullan back involved) and are being backboned by the last 2 U20 teams as well as still having the last few years of Mattie, McNammee and Harte, a new voice could make a big difference to what will still be an impressive panel in 2021.

Harte has done Tyrone enormous service. I think overall he deserves credit for how he has kept Tyrone at the top table in that last decade despite not winning an AI but I think we are now back reaching a talent level that should have us pushing for an AI and things seem to have gone a little stale.

When we have a full contingent available we have a team now capable of winning an All Ireland with McKenna back.

Logan is an option but has he managed anyone since stepping away from the u21s. Would Canavan leave his Sky gig to take up a role?

Midfield is a concern but as someone said earlier, I'd rather we went with actual midfielders than moving forwards and defenders out there. Kilpatrick and Kennedy are raw and unproven but as well let them at it and see how they get on. I'd worry about R Donnelly's pace in midfield but he's a very good footballer and won't get pushed about so I think we should go with him and one of Kennedy/Kilpatrick if they are available.

Our defensive shape is a big worry, we don't seem to have any player tasked with shoring up the middle of the defence, if teams run at us we part like the red sea. We need a designated 6, some players that's going to hold that central channel and organise the defence and make sure teams can't just run through us.

I think the panel needs a bit of upheavel at this point. Too many players there who have had enough time to prove themselves like Ronan O'Neill and Conall McCann, nothing against the lads but they haven't been good enough and it's time to give new players the chance.

Should any of the u20s start next week? Would Canavan be worth a 20 minute cameo?

Niall Morgan
Liam Rafferty Ronan McNamee Padraig Hampsey/Rory Brennan
Michael Cassidy Hampsey/Brennan Frank Burns
Richie Donnelly Conn Kilpatrick
Mattie Donnelly Mark Bradley Kieran McGeary
Darren McCurry Conor McKenna Peter Harte

Probably too ambitious to see Tyrone lining up like that but shows the potential of an excellent team is there. Bradley and McCurry have played their best football for Tyrone coming from the half forward line so having them two play off Peter Harte and Conor McKenna as the vocal points has plenty of potential. Certainly a lot better than pushing defenders and midfielders into make shift forwards.
Think Hampsey and Brennan are our only real options at 6, would probably prefer Brennan at 6 with Hamspey man marking.
Looking at the Tyrone bench yesterday and it looks very stale. Makes me think they should call up the Tyrone U20's (Lorcan Quinn, Antoin Fox, Murnaghan, Canavan, Tiernan Quinn, Ethan Jordan, Oguz) to the panel and have the likes of Conor Quinn involved in the match day panel over Aidan McCrory for example, bit of freshness if nothing else.

Good team, crucial we bring 1 or 2 DGN men in!
Have them in around the panel even, they are born winners this year and will only raise the training quality, McKerney and Donaghy deserve to be there and Paudi if he wants to go back!!

As for McKenna, he has to stay close to goal imo, you cud see out at 11 he wasn't getting involved and linkn up although with his brain this will come, just not this season as he needs games, he touched the ball 13 times the whole 70 mins and yet scored 1-2 and set up 1-1 I think, play him inside close to goals because he will win ball and turn and burn his man!

People's perception of Paudi McNulty seems to get better with every week he spends off the county panel. Let's not forget he spent 4 seasons on the panel (2015-2019) and never established himself as a championship starter. He actually didn't seem to develop as a player in this time either (we can debate whether this is managements fault as it seems a recurring theme throughout the panel) - against the better teams I always got the impression they were happy for him to put the head down, run into trouble and then strip him of the ball. He had a good championship campaign for the Clarke's this year but personally I didn't think he was dominating the midfield to the extent I was thinking it's outrageous this man isn't on the county panel

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

This is the point though. The top sides at the moment don't rely on break ball for the most part. They are able to work short kickouts or have free men and overloads on the wings. Yesterday Morgan didn't seem to have many options other than to hit it long down the middle at which point it is a 50/ 50 ball at best, and in reality even less given out makeshift midfield.

[Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.]

Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

Were players not currently on the panel asked in for in house games? Any names?

Rory Brennan will be a huge loss if he's out for remainder of the year. He's one of our go to man markers for the oppositions more physical forward and rarely lets us down. Thought he did a decent job on Murphy yesterday too. Bit late for this year but I think Peter Teague from Dromore is capable of performing a similar role, he impressed in the club championship this year.

Angelo's point on the kickouts was a key one from yesterday. Over the past few years, when the ball goes dead we've gotten so used to the TV coverage showing replays of scores and by the time the camera switches back to the play the kickout has been taken and we've missed what's happened. For so many of Morgan's kickouts yesterday, after the replay it panned back to the action and he was still standing over the ball trying for find an option, and eventually had to go long where our makeshift midfield inevitably lost out to Donegal's bigger men. It was unlike us as we're usually good at getting the short kickouts away and this is even more important when we don't have big targets in the middle of the field.

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Seven new faces in Tyrone U20 squad for All-Ireland semi-final against Dublin

Dungannon's Conall Devlin is one of seven new faces in the Tyrone U20 panel. Picture Seamus Loughran.
     
Andy Watters
29 September, 2020 01:00

SENIOR championship winner Conal Devlin is one of seven new faces called into the Tyrone U20 panel for next month's All-Ireland semi-final clash with Dublin.

The Dungannon youngster, who starred at corner-back in his club's run to their first title in 64 years, is rewarded with a spot in the Red Hand side that plays the Leinster champions on Saturday, October 17.

Also called up to the Paul Devlin-managed side is Ardboe's Oran Mulgrew (younger brother of senior star David), Mark Hayes, Oisin McCann (younger brother of Tiarnan and Conall) and John Rafferty (all Killyclogher), Eoghan Robinson (Errigal Ciaran) and Carrickmore centre half-forward Rory Donnelly.

Tyrone were originally scheduled to play Dublin on St Patrick's Day and the squad trained on March 10 before all GAA activities were shut-down. Club action resumed after lockdown so six months had gone by before they met again earlier this month.

"You see big changes over six months in lads of 19 or 20 years old," said assistant-manager Dermot Carlin.

I think all of these lads are underage for u20s next year also so I think this is a shrewd move. If they get game time v Dublin then that's a bonus and if not they've been exposed to a county set up preparing for an all-Ireland semi final which will stand to them for next year.

Hayes, McCann and Robinson are all big lads who can play in the forward line and I think these are the type of guys we should be investing time in. The county seems to be coming down with small skillful forwards and the under 20 team is no different with Canavan and Quinn. But these type of players also need someone with more physical presence to play off.

It's similar to the long standing midfield issue discussed on here last week, and we should remember the aim of the game for underage football is to supply the senior team. So in a given year you might have a midfielder or full forward with all the physical attributes but who is a bit raw - persisting with this player and investing time and coaching in him might cost us a couple of underage games but in the long run it will help the senior team more than if we are only producing the prototype Tyrone nippy skillful forward who struggles to win his own ball.

Michael Cassidy played around the middle against Kerry in the semi final and competed well. Has more about him than some of the other names mentioned.

Absolutely took to the cleaners by Paul Donaghy in the championship...

Completely right about McCann, will be nowhere near it.

Midfield definitely our weakest point, and possibly Donegals strongest point

I think Kennedy has the attributes to be a quality county midfielder - we've historically not been blessed with a lot of huge men in our panel but Kennedy definitely has the size, he's a decent footballer as well and has a bit of aggression about him. We need to invest in him over the next couple of years and hope he gets a bit of luck with injuries.

Last years under 20s had a big midfield partnership. Ruairi Gormley was captain and I thought he would have got a senior call up this year but it didn't happen. Does anyone know how he's been doing for Strabane? Strabane seem to be struggling as a side so I'd be worried for Gormley's progression the longer he spends removed from a county set up.

His under 20s midfield partner was Joe Oguz, who is on this year's under 20 team also. He's another big lad who I'd hope would push on over the next couple of years but I know he's had some bad luck with injuries and missed Errigal's championship games this year.

That's not a bad shout on Coney out around the middle but I think that would be too adventurous for Harte. It'll be Ben McDonnell as Angelo says and I'd guess at Kennedy to partner him. We are very very light in that area. I've always been a fan of McClure but he seems to be out of favour before the season was halted. Maybe McKenna will be given a go in the middle in these upcoming league games.

Coney is far too lackadaisical for midfield at county level, and lacks size in comparison to other intercounty midfielders. Imagine him competing against Hugh McFadden or Jason McGee against Donegal in the first round. McClure and Conall McCann have the same problem.

Also bear in mind that this is all going to be played in bad weather and on heavy pitches and we'll be cutting our cloth accordingly. Richie Donnelly and Kennedy are our best bet if fit. Ordinarily my concern with them is that they would struggle with the pace of the game in the big spaces of Croke Park on a summers day, but that will not be an issue this time.

Danny Quinn, Peter Canavan, Oisin McConville and Eamon McGee recently came up with an Ulster XV to beat Dublin.

They agreed on the following side:

1. Morgan (Tyrone)
2. R Wylie (Monaghan)
3. R McNamee (Tyrone)
4. C Cullen (Fermanagh)
5. E Ban Gallagher (Donegal)
6. C McKaigue (Derry)
7. K O'Connell (Monaghan)
8. J Og Burns (Armagh)
9. N Kearns (Monaghan)
10. R O'Neill (Armagh)
11. M Murphy (Donegal)
12. R McHugh (Donegal)
13. P McBrearty (Donegal)
14. C McShane (Tyrone)
15. C McManus (Monaghan)

4 Donegal and Monaghan
3 Tyrone
2 Armagh
1 Fermanagh and Derry

I'd go with the following

1. Morgan (Tyrone)
2. Hampsey (Tyrone)
3. McNamee (Tyrone)
4. Ban Gallagher (Donegal)
5. McHugh (Donegal)
6. McKaigue (Derry)
7. Mooney (Down)
8. McFadden (Donegal)
9. McKiernan (Cavan)
10. Donnelly (Tyrone)
11. Murphy (Donegal)
12. Campbell (Armagh)
13. McGuigan (Derry)
14. McShane (Tyrone)
15. McManus (Monaghan)

5 Tyrone
4 Donegal
2 Derry
1 Armagh, Cavan, Down and Monaghan

Mattie Donnelly has to be in there. I'd also have Peter Harte in the half back or half forward line ahead of any of O'Connell, O'Neill, Mooney or Campbell

Looking like a washout Saturday.Pomeroy on standby apparently be some culture shock for the Blues.

Some culture shock is right. How would their entourage fit in those changing rooms?

a club senior team can barely fit in the changing rooms and often have to move half the lads into another changing room to get togged out, and then bring everyone into the one room for the team talk. I would guess the majority of the dublin lads have never experienced anything like that before... and i would think pomeroy might pull the old trick were the electric for the building has suddenly stopped working, leaving the changing rooms with no source of light 

also worth noting that the warm up is done on a tiny area of the back pitch that is literally surrounded by parked cars, it would make for an interesting spectacle.

Truly hope the game goes to pomeroy

Wouldn't make a whole pile of difference.. Dublin U20s would bate us at the minute

We beat Kerry 3 weeks ago

See McKenna looks to be going back to Oz. I think it shows how valued he is over there, if they are making so many allowances for him. Hopefully we see him in a Tyrone jersey again at some stage.

I think the club would cater for any player if they where feeling homesick and wanted time off,every player is an asset to them so they need to keep them right to get value for the wages they pay, esp in the current world with all this talk of health and wellbeing etc

You have a good chance of seeing him back in Tyrone colours but not for another few years, but by then what will he have left? Better concentrating on what we have and where we go from here, starting with Dublin on Saturday night. One week in Tyrone football seems like an eternity these days.

Is Healy Park going to be playable? Is the contingency to move it to Edendork on Sunday?

I would stick with Kennedy at midfield for this weekend. Thought he did ok against Galway considering that was his first game back. The capitulation really only started after he was taken off. With Cavanagh already off at that stage we had nobody around the middle able to complete with Galways midfielders, Flynn in particular. I think McDonnell is a useful enough player and can do a job but he doesn't have the size to compete with the top midfielders. Con Kilpatrick probably falls into the same category at the moment although he is a far better ball player than McDonnell. So I think we need to persist with Kennedy going forward.

"I wasn't at the game, all we can go on is the camera angle," he said.

Stopped reading after that.

You won't have read much on the topic if you were only interesting in hearing from people who saw the full incident

Ciaran McLaughlin and Conan Grugan have left the panel.

Since when? They were both on the line on Sunday.

If true it's probably fair enough from each player and equally no loss to the panel. Both have been knocking around for quite a while now without making an impact and were well down the pecking order. When Grugan rejoined the panel last year I thought he would make a bigger impression but he seemed to struggle with injuries last year and to be honest he's been disappointing in most of the chances he's got.

[It's absolutely laughable that GAA pundits continue to spoof away with these guessed generalities]

Just on the subject of Daly, listening to Anthony Moyles on OTB AM this morning, he had clearly only watched the highlights on TV last night and basically from the one clip of the 2nd Donegal goal formed the opinion that "Galway have issues at 6" when nothing could be further from the truth.
It's absolutely laughable that GAA pundits continue to spoof away with these guessed generalities, ex-players should know vastly more than the punters in the stands and it's this insight and accumulated knowledge that we want to hear, just say you didn't see the match fully and provide the analysis on the games that you did. In contrast I did note from Aidan O'Rourke's coaching column for RTE that he highlighted Galway's "scramble defence" as not good enough throughout the Kerry match and especially for the last two Kerry scores that clinched it. He outlined John Daly's slow reaction to the developing attacks for both scores, having watched it back I think it's harsh to pin the blame with Daly (particularly for Spillane's point) but at least there's a solid analysis made to back up the critique, more of that please.

100% agree with this, it's ridiculous at this time of year. There's only 2 or 3 games televised each weekend so fair enough that pundits won't have seen every game, but they should stop analysing teams as if they have. For the Sunday Game at the weekend just past Pat Spillane and Ciaran Whelan were standing on the pitch directly after the Meath Mayo game supposedly providing analysis on other games that had literally just finished all across the country. They obviously hadn't seen the games and I'd be surprised if they had even seen much highlights. So Pat was spouting general platitudes such as 'Galway are really playing with the shackles off under Joyce'.

Another example is Eoin Sheehan on OTBAM last week, when analysing Tyrone he said they were the only team still playing puke football. How he came to this conclusion when neither of Tyrone's first two league games had been televised I don't know. Had he been at either, particularly the Meath game, he would know Tyrone have actually been experimenting with pushing up on teams more aggressively and have been wide open in defence at times as a result.