Messages

[Puts all the blather to bed.]

If it has to stay in Connaught it's probably too late to suggest London?

They could have played it in Wembley and it would have been a great advertisment for the game. The English lads and Irish lads who support English teams have a lull now between the soccer stuff; guranteed full house.

Mate!

The most sensible suggestion on this whole thread mate. Hard luck Highorlow - a prophet is never recognized in his own village.

Glad it's the Hyde if it can't be Wembley. Puts all the blather to bed.

It might but it is not satisfactory either. This might appear to be about football and fairness but it isn t. It is all about money. See Syferus's post above. The concern of the other Rossies on here when they thought they might lose the gig.

How many Mayo posters on here are 'forced' to buy these 100 euro tickets for board each year, or worse still, forced to sell them and get hunted like they will deffo after this mess. And raffle tickets at 10 euro a go to win a weanling bull. Never won that weanling yet. Look at that Syferus post again and compare it to his bleating earlier and realise we have all been sold a pup. Rossies are already celebrating a victory of sorts. Good luck to them.

And it should be a home tie for us. That 97 agreement needs to be reviewed and Sligo CB told to get their act together with regards to their capacity in Mark Park and forget about neutral away finals.

Sure one proposed reason for holding it in Castlebar was that Mayo County Board had a millstone of debt around its neck on foot of refurbishing a stadium that is full to capacity on the rarest of occasions. The scale of the project was idiotic and if anything it is the Mayo County board that should get its act together and act in the interest of Gaelic Games in their county rather than these pie in the sky projects they come up with.

Like all counties we have plenty to complain about when it comes to our administrators but I certainly would not want them "to get their act together" as you put it, to increase the capacity of Markiewicz Park for the sole possibility of holding a Connacht Final once or twice a decade. Planning restrictions aside, the only reason why Markiewicz should ever have its capacity increased would be because it is full on a regular-ish basis. It never is. Even the Galway and Mayo games in 2010, although close to it, were not capacity crowds.

The extent of the refurb of McHale Park and the location of the so-called "Connacht" centre of excellence smack of legacies or monuments of dictators you find in Italy and Greece.

[d) The two grounds that would have been considered suitable back in 1997 as neutral venues have fallen into various states of disrepair - Tuam completely sub-standard and Roscommon heading that way and potentially no longer having the required capacity and;e) It is more financially advantageous to Sligo to play this particular game in Castlebar.]

I would say there are also reasons:

d) The two grounds that would have been considered suitable back in 1997 as neutral venues have fallen into various states of disrepair - Tuam completely sub-standard and Roscommon heading that way and potentially no longer having the required capacity and;

e) It is more financially advantageous to Sligo to play this particular game in Castlebar.
Pearse stadium is not a suitable neutral venue in Connacht for anything so, with Tuam in bits, the issue of the state of Hyde Park now needs to be looked at. If there is no sign of Hyde going back to a 30k capacity then the 97 agreement is finished. If the Hyde issue is short term, any alteration this year is more likely to be a one off.

(d) not a valid reason. As I understand it if Sligo and/or Leitrim are in a final a neutral venue applies as neither have a ground capable of holding a connacht final.  Therefore the agreement is not concerned with the specific ground as long as that complies with the requirements to hold a connacht final. Therefore Castlebar, Pearse and Hyde park suffice.

(e) I wouldn't rule it out but I sincerely hope not. We'll never know either way.

You can add as many reasons as you like for changing the venue to McHale Park but ultimately an agreement must be broken to do so. 

[At this stage though, I d like the whole thing to be above board and transparent as possible so hopefully the Hyde can be sorted out and play it there. Otherwise we ll never hear the end of it no matter what deal is struck.]

Have heard a story that, depending on the attendance, Sligo would be in line to receive between 30 and 50% of Mayo GAAs take from hosting the fixture and they wouldn't have to even turn a key in a gate to get it. That must be tempting for the Sligo board against the Hyde/Pearse alternative of not getting a penny and still not getting the game at home. This could go either way.

Why would the Mayo Board want the game in Castlebar if they're going to give away so much of the gate?

If they can get it every team would want a home game.

It s a once off. Mayo s turn to play Sligo at home but an arrangement means finals involving Sligo played at a neutral venue. But the obvious venue - Hyde Park - seems to be considered not up to hosting this for reason/s not clear to me. If the Hyde is out then the only alternative is Pearse stadium in Galway - which is the nightmare scenario even though it might appear fairer than playing it in Castlebar.

For the Connacht Council money raises its ugly head as well. This was properly not fully thought out when the arrangement was made back in 1997. A lot has changed since. Back then Tuam was in the equation as a neutral venue. Whatever about its capacity the pitch itself seems to have issues like astroturf penalty areas. Simply means a match in Pearse Stadium could cost the CC at least 100,000 bucks and maybe a lot more.

At this stage though, I d like the whole thing to be above board and transparent as possible so hopefully the Hyde can be sorted out and play it there. Otherwise we ll never hear the end of it no matter what deal is struck.

I'd agree with all of that. Right now, I think the onus is on the Sligo county board. If they want to go ahead with McHale as the venue, that's alright by me. If they want to use the Hyde, I have no objection either but it's high time a decision was made and that the teams are allowed to get on with their preparations without any unnecessary distractions.
The Mayo county board are not responsible for the mess we find ourselves in but one way or another the bitching and moaning from outside the county will be heard from all sides. The collective béal bocht will be big enough to drain the Shannon.
I'm not in favour of bribing Sligo in any form to come to Castlebar. The mere idea is abhorrent to me. It's akin to saying that they are prepared to lessen their team's chances of success in order to pick up a few handy bob. Judas and the thirty pieces of silver and all that oul' guff.
Either McHale is suitable or it ain't and if that's the case, let's all head for the sheep pen and put up with the consequences.

Why is the onus on the Sligo County Board?

They can hold out for their neutral venue no matter how sugarcoated McHale Park becomes.
Speculation but I would say that the CC would be in a position to make a bigger cut in gate receipts than usual because they ll be factoring in a much bigger attendance for Castlebar. I have some sympathy for them. It s their big pay day and they want to make the most of it. Sligo board will just have to tell them f**k off and hold out for a neutral venue.

You're surmising Sligo County Board actually have a choice. Ultimately this entire thread has been conjecture but if events transpire as rumoured, Connacht GAA have alot to answer for.

You're fairly on the ball with your maths there baoithe. Hosting county gets 10% of the gate I believe. That could be in the region of 60-70k. Even if the deal is struck that Sligo get roughly a third, that still leaves an amount of money that otherwise wouldn't have gone to Mayo GAA. In terms of loan repayments it's significant. There would also be ancillary revenues from shops inside the ground, maybe parking and booze sales in An Sportlann? I'm not sure who gets the benefit of these, it may well be Mayo GAA exclusively.

Its money that would otherwise go to Ros or Galway GAA, so why not take the opportunity to split it between the counties that have reached the final. That is, after all, effectively what happens when any two of Mayo, Ros and Galway meet in the final via the existing home and away agreements.

The other factor here is that a final in Castlebar will draw a significantly more punters through the gate for this fixture than one in Hyde or Pearse. There were far more Mayo fans at a nothing game against Leitrim on Sunday than there were at the Connacht Final last year. Knowing this, the Connacht Council will want it in Castlebar as their share of the gate will be a lot more also. So, it all comes down to Sligo, if they are happy with their cut the deal will surely be done.

Even if this match took in 600k (I;d have my doubts) and if Sligo are being offered one third or half of of Mayo's 10% cut amount it doesnt leave much for Mayo County Board from the 60k to 70k and frankly it is odd if that is the only reason that the match is switched to McHale Park. The ancillary revenue youre referring to really is irrelevant in terms of splitting between the competing counties (would never be taken into account re repayments of loans and difficult to ascertain in order to split). 30k is not worth getting out of bed for in the context of the redevelopment of McHale Park. It must cost that to stage the game although that probably comes out of the Connacht Council's cut.

Whether the 1997 agreement is just or otherwise, it was agreed by all counties presumably. Are we at the stage where agreements re fixtures are being set aside in order to enable Mayo to hold the game on their home turf or to contribute towards the repayment of development of McHale Park? I hope not. I think Cosmo is right in saying that there is more, financially, for the Connacht Council in holding it in McHale Park and that might be what is driving this issue. But as Seanie said, I dont expect any more than 8k from Sligo so I dont see why the Hyde doesn't suffice.

Ultimately the rumoured reasoning for not adhering to the 1997 agreement is:
(a) contributions towards the redevelopment of McHale Park;
(b) the geographical location of McHale Park; and
(c) the increased attendance that McHale Park can hold will be more favourable to Connacht Council revenues.

If Sligo County board is prepared to depart from the 1997 agreement I hope it is for (b) above  rather than the other reasons. I have no problem switching it to castlebar, my problem will depend on the rationale for doing so. And if things transpire as rumoured on this thread it further underlines the problem we have with commitology in our province. 

As an aside, it is abolutely not the case that everyone in our county "expects" as Moysider put it I think, that we will beat Mayo. There may be some bravado talk in a border town by west Sligo people in Ballina but we all know that Sligo would not put 4-20 past Leitrim in the Championship nor get to a Division 1 league final nor contest the semi-final of the All-Ireland. Béal bocht that may be but it's the reality.

[At this stage though, I d like the whole thing to be above board and transparent as possible so hopefully the Hyde can be sorted out and play it there. Otherwise we ll never hear the end of it no matter what deal is struck.]

Have heard a story that, depending on the attendance, Sligo would be in line to receive between 30 and 50% of Mayo GAAs take from hosting the fixture and they wouldn't have to even turn a key in a gate to get it. That must be tempting for the Sligo board against the Hyde/Pearse alternative of not getting a penny and still not getting the game at home. This could go either way.

Why would the Mayo Board want the game in Castlebar if they're going to give away so much of the gate?

If they can get it every team would want a home game.

It s a once off. Mayo s turn to play Sligo at home but an arrangement means finals involving Sligo played at a neutral venue. But the obvious venue - Hyde Park - seems to be considered not up to hosting this for reason/s not clear to me. If the Hyde is out then the only alternative is Pearse stadium in Galway - which is the nightmare scenario even though it might appear fairer than playing it in Castlebar.

For the Connacht Council money raises its ugly head as well. This was properly not fully thought out when the arrangement was made back in 1997. A lot has changed since. Back then Tuam was in the equation as a neutral venue. Whatever about its capacity the pitch itself seems to have issues like astroturf penalty areas. Simply means a match in Pearse Stadium could cost the CC at least 100,000 bucks and maybe a lot more.

At this stage though, I d like the whole thing to be above board and transparent as possible so hopefully the Hyde can be sorted out and play it there. Otherwise we ll never hear the end of it no matter what deal is struck.

I'd agree with all of that. Right now, I think the onus is on the Sligo county board. If they want to go ahead with McHale as the venue, that's alright by me. If they want to use the Hyde, I have no objection either but it's high time a decision was made and that the teams are allowed to get on with their preparations without any unnecessary distractions.
The Mayo county board are not responsible for the mess we find ourselves in but one way or another the bitching and moaning from outside the county will be heard from all sides. The collective béal bocht will be big enough to drain the Shannon.
I'm not in favour of bribing Sligo in any form to come to Castlebar. The mere idea is abhorrent to me. It's akin to saying that they are prepared to lessen their team's chances of success in order to pick up a few handy bob. Judas and the thirty pieces of silver and all that oul' guff.
Either McHale is suitable or it ain't and if that's the case, let's all head for the sheep pen and put up with the consequences.

Why is the onus on the Sligo County Board?

Jesus I thought this was just a bit of craic when this thread started - surprised it has become such an issue.

Does the monies taken at the gate of a Connacht final not go to the Connacht Council?

the county hosting the final gets a cut of the gate
think its 10%

if this stunt is pulled by the Mayo county board and john prenty, I mean connacht council, it will make a mockery of democratic decisions made in the past.
I think the business people in Roscommon will be furious. Mayo gets enough tourists, Roscommon could do with the extra revenue as the county is on its knees economically

Leaving aside all that if its just a 10% cut of the gate and if Sligo are being induced with a 30%/50% cut of that Mayo are left with 5%/8% of the gate. It doesnt make sense. Unless the rules on the cut of the gate are being amended for this game.

As I understood it, the gate from even ordinary Connacht Championship games held in Markiewicz Park goes to the Connacht Council. I could be wrong as its just an  assumption probably largely based on all the Connacht council heads taking the money! If I'm right though what is different about this final? I'm sure some of ye have a logical answer.

Also was the White elephant at the Leitrim game and ironic joke by Elverys?

Jesus I thought this was just a bit of craic when this thread started - surprised it has become such an issue.

Does the monies taken at the gate of a Connacht final not go to the Connacht Council?

Galway will win handy enough 6+ points. Time to put up the Galway v Mayo Connacht final thread for some real discussion.

Halfwit. 

[Beautiful play by Sligo. Kelly and Marren were superb, the midfield, the defence, the keeper, everyone. Make no mistake, this was prevented from being a total hammering by the ref giving almost every 50-50 call to Galway.]

Beautiful play by Sligo. Kelly and Marren were superb, the midfield, the defence, the keeper, everyone. Make no mistake, this was prevented from being a total hammering by the ref giving almost every 50-50 call to Galway.
For Galway it exposes that Mulholland is no magic pill to return to the glory hunting days but he's an impressive manager and given time he'll get things right in the land of the Tribe.

For us it highlights just how abject our performance on May 20th really was. It's incredible to think Galway have joined us in the qualifiers before we even know who our next opponents are.

Assuming a Mayo win, will Sligo be home (the Hyde) or away for the final?

Agree 100% and fair play to you for acknowledging that.

Roscommon are a division 3 team for the moment. Kilbride and cregg appear to me to be the only forwards worth talking about. Shine has always been too immobile to be a top inter-county forward (his performance against Sligo in 2010 was more down to our failings than his quality) - and I say that while recognising the service into him hasnt been good enough today. I don't think his movement is near good enough. If he played out the field he would be even more impotent at championship level. But of course that's all just personal opinion.

I'd prefer if Sligo were playing Roscommon in June although I'm sure Sligonian might disagree with me.

[I would have said that article backs up my point]

I think the hatred directed towards us at times from Roscommon fans is far in excess of anything we are able to give back.

Erm ... whatever happened this guy, Cosmo?

http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/the-rossies-dont-you-just-love-beating-them/

Looks like the light went out just as The Rossies derailed Mayo's Drive for Five  ...  as there doesn't seem to have been an entry since 

I would have said that article backs up my point, we try to give back as much as we get but it just isn't possible! Unfortunately the light did indeed go out for that blog which is a pity as the guy was a good writer and knew his stuff as regards Mayo GAA. I think he was just too busy with work and stuff, it must take a lot of effort to keep one going. The Galway lad that couldn't spell gave it a go last year and managed about a week and packed it in. Luckily we still have Willie Joe's Mayo blog to keep us going.

How does it prove your point?
" a good writer"
That article was pure hateful gutter trash talk. Most of the posts underneath condemn it. Whoever wrote should be ashamed of himself and he's certainly no loss as a "writer". 
Whatever point you're trying to make you're not doing a very good job of it and if anything are contradicting yourself.

I've never read that article before but I can certainly appreciate what he is talking about. I think I've mentioned it on here that I and others around me at games versus Roscommon have experienced very similar behaviour. I know you can argue it is a minority that behaves that way but it has happened to me on more than one occasion and consequently taints my impression of Roscommon supporters. Especially so when on one of the occasions it was a teenager and his father that were hurling the personal abuse at a guy beside me. There are muppets that go to all Connacht games but when the - shall we call them - perpetrators are individuals who appear sober and ostensibly sane they are, in my experience, always from Roscommon.

Thank God. I thought you were paranoid there for a minute. I think from reading this site those awful Ross supporters usually manifest themselves when Ross actually upset the apple cart and beat the "big two". Purely coincidental I'm sure. Search under posts starting with "fair play to Roscommon on their victory.... the best team won but I was sittin beside this fella and............."

I'm from Sligo.

[I would have said that article backs up my point]

I think the hatred directed towards us at times from Roscommon fans is far in excess of anything we are able to give back.

Erm ... whatever happened this guy, Cosmo?

http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/the-rossies-dont-you-just-love-beating-them/

Looks like the light went out just as The Rossies derailed Mayo's Drive for Five  ...  as there doesn't seem to have been an entry since 

I would have said that article backs up my point, we try to give back as much as we get but it just isn't possible! Unfortunately the light did indeed go out for that blog which is a pity as the guy was a good writer and knew his stuff as regards Mayo GAA. I think he was just too busy with work and stuff, it must take a lot of effort to keep one going. The Galway lad that couldn't spell gave it a go last year and managed about a week and packed it in. Luckily we still have Willie Joe's Mayo blog to keep us going.

How does it prove your point?
" a good writer"
That article was pure hateful gutter trash talk. Most of the posts underneath condemn it. Whoever wrote should be ashamed of himself and he's certainly no loss as a "writer". 
Whatever point you're trying to make you're not doing a very good job of it and if anything are contradicting yourself.

I've never read that article before but I can certainly appreciate what he is talking about. I think I've mentioned it on here that I and others around me at games versus Roscommon have experienced very similar behaviour. I know you can argue it is a minority that behaves that way but it has happened to me on more than one occasion and consequently taints my impression of Roscommon supporters. Especially so when on one of the occasions it was a teenager and his father that were hurling the personal abuse at a guy beside me. There are muppets that go to all Connacht games but when the - shall we call them - perpetrators are individuals who appear sober and ostensibly sane they are, in my experience, always from Roscommon.

The details of the event were passed on unsolicited under the instructions of the leader of the day Micheal Noonan to the Tribunal.

The Tribunal also found that then Minister Lowery was the only member of the cabinate to bear any cabinate responsibility.

Micheal Lowery was ejected from the party immediately.

The 50K aquired by the pair of rogue members was returned.

Your loyalty is admirable. Every party needs people like you to survive.

I don't know, sometimes even staunch supporters would gain more credibility by taking heed of the facts, admitting that errors were made, and leaving it at that.
[/quote]

I agree but its true that political parties could not function if all of their members actually used the bit of grey matter between their lugs and recognised the woods for the trees. You need people who are blindly loyal and who swallow the party spin. Gombeens really.

[one]

The big issue here is corporate donations to a political party during its term of office in government by a company (but really O'Brien) to which a licence for a state contract was awarded and the basis on which such award was made has been deemed to be resulting from corruption.

I don't think that is such a big issue tbh, it was par for the course back then and goes on in most countries and usually to a much higer degree.  Whilst it looks very bad, it's not as serious imo as the fact the competition to award what turned out to be one of the biggest money spinning contracts in the state's history appears to have been seriously compromised by payments from a company/person to one individual.

There should be a comeback for the state for that, not to mention the other competitors.  What makes matters worse was that O'Brien didn't even pay the tax that would have been due on his windfall as he changed residency just before his payday.

Whether it was par for the course back then or goes on in other countries is irrelevant. It shouldn'[t have happened. A FG government awarded a licence to O'Brien who contemporaneously and immediately subsequently made donations to that party. FG were also evasive in its dealings with those donations. There was a serious conflict of interest. If FG were a incorporated body they would have breached the companies acts and its directors could have been criminally liable.
You're right in that there isn't as much corruption in FG as there was in FF but, as you say, thats down to the sparse number of years they have been in power. It boils down to opinion on whether you believe the FG party is culpable here. I certainly see the way they managed this as underhand at best.