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Id be more optimistic than that. No one has turned over Westmeath easily and the very wet conditions and slippy pitch made it even more difficult to break them down.

Our shooting is just terrible at the minute but at least we didn't cough up 10 goal chances and looked a lot more solid defensively. I think we can improve again the next day and with Mckinless and possibly loughlin or Doherty back we can beat Tyrone, Louth or Mayo.

The reaction to McKinless's incident was wasn't helped by Comer being subbed due to an unrelated injury later on. Joyce suggested after the game that there might be a connection between the two events but Comer clearly had a hamstring injury.

In hindsight rushing The Glen players back with Derry without rest seems like such a dumb move.
Actually, forget hindsight, at the time it seemed a dumb move.

What's the max you give them 2 weeks? Would that make much of a difference now. They all got time off during the league. Glass said he likes a game every week rather than long rest periods, it means lighter training. None of them have been injured. They had 4 weeks without a game after the Donegal game. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Harte the past few weeks but I don't think that's a factor.

No one mentioned it as an issue last year when they should have beat Kerry in the AI semi

He didn't even look for it. Terrible call that will likely cost Roscommon the game

Ulster while been competitive is not the B all and end all. Even Leinster would be hugely competitive with Westmeath Kildare louth Meath probably winning it over last decade if not for Dublin dominating. Munster same with tipp (who did win one) clare cork and maybe even limerick if no Kerry. Ulster is competitive no doubt. But Dublin would have at least 10 of the last 12 ulster titles and Kerry maybe 8.

A mighty take. Whatever about the rest which is left field, Kerry winning a hypothetical 8 is a load of, well, balls

Why do Kerry always get grouped with Dublin. They are very much in the pack behind Dublin with the top Ulster and Connacht teams. They were embarrassed in their last visit to Croke park

2 strong looking teams. I honestly think Chrissy McKaigue is the far side of good and is there to be exposed, I'd put Conaty in there directly on him. Less pressure on Armagh, so I imagine we'll try and frustrate Derry for a long time before we come out to play.

People say this a lot but he rarely gets exposed. Gallen gave him bother last year but I can't think of anyone since and he's marked some top players in that time.

Last week Derry were 6/1 for Sam and Galway were 12/1
Today Derry are 12/1 and Galway are 9/1

Galway have put themselves in a great position to win the group now and that would likely have a massive impact on their chances of winning Sam.

Derry by contrast are very unlikely to top the group, so if they do get out of the group they will end up going the much much harder (close to impossible) preliminary quarter-final route.

And if Derry qualify out of their group and win a preliminary quarter they will  play one of the 3 group winners in the quarters. Likely to be Dublin, Kerry or Donegal. Looking very tough atm but I don't think you can say it's close to impossible after 1 season. There will be years where a team gets momentum through this route and wins Sam or gets to a final. Derry might also have a stronger squad come the prelim qf game after Mckinless's suspension is over and hopefully with Doherty, McEvoy, Murphy and maybe even Loughlin back

The group isn't decided yet either. Kerry, Dublin and Derry all failed to win their first group game last year and they topped the group, albeit two of those results were draws.

A second consecutive reality check for us. Not realistic contenders, especially with the current management.
Two stamping incidents this year with a Derry team coached by Gavin Devlin. Coincidence?
Harte's success with Louth vastly overstated; Baker took Antrim from div 4 to div 2 and to an ulster final. Would any Derryman want him at the helm?

It's not current management, it was the injury list and playing 3/4 game with 14 men. Complete half back line gone, Loughlin, and McKindless off, couple of men ill during the week, and McGuigan's shot goes in with 7 to go it's a level game. That's to be applauded. Full compliment and we're absolutely contenders.

Tyrone men have so little to chat about these days a Derry loss is their victory! 

You better believe it! This team was going to win Sam! Time to show its not all big talk!

There is nowhere ... anywhere that anybody from Derry said we were gonna win Sam!!

Really? Was hype everywhere.. won the league and it totally took off
https://www.gaa.ie/article/mcgrogan-hopes-humble-derry-are-ready-to-bounce-back

Is there any chance the hype that built rapidly after their League success played a part in their provincial exit?

"Well, you'd be daft to say you don't hear the hype," says Derry defender Padraig McGrogan.

It's been a 5 year journey and they've continually improved every year culminating in back to back Ulsters and last year's semi final performance. The hype wasn't just from the league victory. This is their first dip but they can still recover from it.

In all seriousness, will Derry get out of this group?

Complete collapse in a year, and its not just the defeats, its the manner of them... a team on the other side of their peak.

They've only got about 2 players over 30

Disappointing game but I'm not too disheartened by the performance. It feels like everything that could go wrong did for Derry. Injuries during the 4 week break, stupid red card, gift of a goal. McGuigan takes his point Galway don't get a goal on counter. If our luck turns a bit we can still turn things around this season.

Twas always gonna happen that happen that Derry got a few injuries, but that's quite the burst...

All inured at training  not games, heavy training for that. We were in a better position after the league final

And no injuries to the Glen players which was what all the early season fuss was about. Just bad luck.

Not the group Armagh would have wanted to be in of course. It looks like it will be very tough. Westmeath probably should have caught us at this stage last year and they almost caught Tyrone too. That certainly isnt an easy game.

Going to Celtic Park is always difficult for any team.

I dont expect there to be a big margin between the teams in any of the games and so the final standings could well be up in the air. Topping the pile would be amazing.  If not, then getting 2nd and securing that home advantage is essential. 

I'd agree. Winning the group is vital.
Galway definitely favourites with the 3 forwards all back and they've have had another 2 weeks training banked

The bookies don't share your view. Derry are 4/5 for next week's game and Galway 11/8.

Tyrone be happy with that draw, short drive to ulster winner and should have more than enough for clare and Cork. Draw from hell for Derry.

Definitely a tough draw for us but the only advantage to be had is from winning the group, so from that perspective avoiding Dublin and Kerry is most welcome.

It's hardly a draw from hell. If we can't beat Westmeath we don't deserve to be in last 12. In terms of topping the group, I'd prefer the Connacht winners to any other province. Ulster runner up will be a tough one but we should have plenty of motivation to play either of those teams.

Has the Ulster Championship shown up that none of the teams are fit enough to win a all-Ireland?

It didn't need the Ulster Championship to prove that. Derry are the closest Ulster team but even at that they will need a fair amount of luck to win it. Someone made the point about Armagh not coping with players running at them at pace. It's not just Armagh most teams I've seen can't cope with that. I only caught the last 10 minutes of Armagh v Down, it confirms what I believe, that we are no nearer to Sam now than 10 years ago. I watched two and a half games in full yesterday, the Tyrone/ Donegal followed by Galway Kilkenny and the first half of Limerick Tipp. The difference in refereeing between the two codes is startling. The physicality and the hits in hurling would leave most inter county footballers in a heap. Oh and while I'm at it fair play to Antrim beating Wexford.

We have the same conversation every year. It basically boils down to are these teams good enough to beat Dublin or Kerry. Kerry have gone back a bit imo and any game between them Derry/Armagh/Donegal and the good version of Tyrone will be very close. Dublin are a level above but that is no slight on the quality from Ulster. Derry just about beat the Dubs in a league game so i think they'd have an outside chance. Donegal playing the way they are now won't cut it in Croke park imo, they defend far too deep will find it harder to create chances and will be slightly easier to pick off with more space. McGuinness is prob be aware of this and could try to move away from those tactics once they are out of ulster, if that's possible in one year.

Assuming the final is Armagh Donegal, I'm not expecting a spectacle.