Messages

http://queens.gaa.ie/2015/02/11/queens-welcome-appeal-decision-on-stranmillis-issue/

[small affiliated colleges]

Lads in all honesty I did not see this one coming.  I would say there are a few in Higher Education at Croke Park level scratching their heads this morning.  These rulings have severe implications for the CA constitution.  The ruling in relation to Queens/Stanmillis has opened a Pandora's box in relation to small affiliated colleges.
I also think we need to get the full text of the determination by CAC. The CA will either have to accept the rulings and move on or change the constitution again.
I can see a Fitzgibbon/Sigerson competition without County players in the future.

You're at your misinformation again Stronghold. Stranmillis is not an affiliated college (unlike St Mary's). You are stuck in a time-warp. Stranmillis University College is a fully integrated part of Queen's and has been for some time:
http://www.stran.ac.uk/informationabout/theuniversitycollege/

"The University College Education Strategy 
When we adopted our new title in 1999, we became academically integrated with the main body of Queen's University.  As a consequence,all of the features of the student experience within the University are also available to students in Stranmillis"

It would make as much (non)sense for the Queen's Faculty of Engineering to set up a football club...

Can you put the pitch forks down now lads? You'll put somebody's eye out.

This is the GAA we all know and love. We're all part of the problem...

Queens complain that Sligo IT had ineligible player not realising they had three themselves. A joke is right.

Lol, well done Queens. You got what you deserved, but you managed to take ITS with you in your crusade of sour grapes.

Sounds like both Colleges fucked up badly. Stranmillis College now have their own Football team and obviously the 3 lads were too good that Queens tried to snap them up and it bit them in the ass.

DRA anyone? I hope not!

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Hopefully both IT Sligo and Queens will be too embarrassed to take this any further.

I can't get my head round why did Queens play the three players if as Stronghold says they'd already appealed the decision and lost on three occasions, surely they didn't think they'd get away with it.

I'm not on a witchhunt but is it a case that college teams have no accountability and therefore they take the risks. If it was the case that players and officials had the threat of bans hanging over them, you'd see a lot of it cleaning itself up very quickly.

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Agree with this, and perhaps they still will. It should certainly be an option for council.

Queens on the other hand, look like right fools..kicking up a fuss when they had 3 illegal players themselves. Should get a 1 year ban from the competition IMO.

And if that is not stupid enough, the draw more attention to themselves by reporting Sligo IT's transgressions!!!

I don't see the punishment that Queen's got as a deterrent at all.
The players in question should suspended.
The College administrators should be suspended.
The colleges should get future bans in Sigerson.

So the illegal players are looking at 48 week bans just like Andrew Shore, the Wexford hurler?

Both teams should be banned for 2 years. Time to knock that shite on the head.

The Sigerson needs a serious clamp down, proper deterrants as mentioned before - teams banned from following year competition - would soon root it out

Queens got less than they deserved. The sheer arrogance of them appealing the result on the grounds of a sabbatical officer when they had so many illegal players still amazes me. Did they think ITS would just sit back and not say a word as they tried to get them kicked out of the competition?

It is for this reason I believe Sigerson cup days are numbered which is an awful shame.

Got to love this post. Classic QUB. Queens caught getting up to shenanigans, then try to deflect attention onto UUJ.

After all these years, QUB are still trying to find true north on the moral compass

Stranmillis is a stand alone club competiting in Div 3 football and in ladies competitions. It has the same rights and independence as St Mary's .
Queens lost this case before Christmas at the Higher Education Committee, then lost again at the Central Appeals Committee. Then went to the DRA and lost again. (Must have more money than sense)
Surely you are not suggesting that Queens can pick St Mary's students. Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Help me out here Stronghold. I don't see any Queen's related decisions posted here (the latest one is from the end of October - after the Ryan Cup started):
http://www.sportsdra.ie/dradecisions.htm

Post a link up when it gets out of your head and into the real world Stronghold. There's a good lad.

It is obvious that neither college were trying to sneak the players in question through.

Occam's Razor...

- Sligo through ignorance and/or stupidity thought their sabattical officer was eligible.
- Queen's through pig-headedness believe Stranmillis students should continue to be allowed to play for them as they did last year and the years before that.
- Stronghold has an agenda and has been caught telling porkies. Again.

Ignorance, stupidity, and pig-headedness are founding principles of the GAA. Somebody put the kettle on.

No porkies, No agenda, just facts. Queens went to CA , CAC and then the DRA before Christmas.  The dicision must not be posted yet on the DRA site. All third level clubs in the Country where notified of this. Check it out yourself.  I'll accept an apology later.

I am confused Stronghold. So the DRA - the pre-eminent and binding dispute authority in the GAA - ruled before Christmas that Stranmillis students were ineligible, but In February the lowly CAC turned this decision on its head and says the DRA were wrong and they are eligible?

Stronghold? Stronghold? Are you there Stronghold?

Good to see. If the rule wasn't in the rule book then ITS did nothing wrong. Just shows how incompetent the GAA can be some times though

Classic incompetent GAA. Make a rule ...and then forget to put it in the constitution 

I wondered why Stronghold - a man in the know - was quiet on this particular matter given that on the face of it, it should have been a clear-cut case.

Sligo are the cleverest (or luckiest) team left in the Sigerson. Good luck to them. They'll be like popcorn out of a hot pan bouncing onto the Mardyke on Friday! 

[s]

Strong unequivocal assertions Stronghold...

Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Can you name a second or were you just exaggerating for effect?

All third level clubs in the Country where notified of this. Check it out yourself.

Unlike yourself, obviously, I am not involved with any third level club, so I am relying on publicly available information.

By the way no Stranmillis player played for Queens until last year and not before.

Are you sure? I only need one example to show you up as a liar or a fool with an agenda...

I thought Ryan Rafferty was a Stranmillis student for his 3 years at Queen's? I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong or you will post up an

For someone not involved in a third level club you seem to know a lot about players from Stranmillis playing for Queens. I do apologise. I did not know about Ryan Rafferty but if that is the case and I have no reason to doubt you did he have permission to play as per CA rules. Did anyone know he was a Stranmillis student. Remember up until they had their own club, students from Stranmillis had to apply for permission to play and could have played with St Mary's or Queens.

So you are a fool with an agenda then Stronghold. You tried to dress up your propaganda as "fact". Your assertion.

Oh, and quoting one (possible) player is hardly "knowing a lot about players from Stranmillis playing for Queens". You're at your exaggerating again.

The world and his granny knew at the time and there was a rumour at the time that a certain (obvious) individual involved with the UUJ club tried his damnedest to get him ruled ineligible. But I only heard that third hand so I wouldn't want to misrepresent it as "fact".

[s]

Strong unequivocal assertions Stronghold...

Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Can you name a second or were you just exaggerating for effect?

All third level clubs in the Country where notified of this. Check it out yourself.

Unlike yourself, obviously, I am not involved with any third level club, so I am relying on publicly available information.

By the way no Stranmillis player played for Queens until last year and not before.

Are you sure? I only need one example to show you up as a liar or a fool with an agenda...

I thought Ryan Rafferty was a Stranmillis student for his 3 years at Queen's? I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong or you will post up an apology.

Stranmillis is a stand alone club competiting in Div 3 football and in ladies competitions. It has the same rights and independence as St Mary's .
Queens lost this case before Christmas at the Higher Education Committee, then lost again at the Central Appeals Committee. Then went to the DRA and lost again. (Must have more money than sense)
Surely you are not suggesting that Queens can pick St Mary's students. Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Help me out here Stronghold. I don't see any Queen's related decisions posted here (the latest one is from the end of October - after the Ryan Cup started):
http://www.sportsdra.ie/dradecisions.htm

Post a link up when it gets out of your head and into the real world Stronghold. There's a good lad.

It is obvious that neither college were trying to sneak the players in question through.

Occam's Razor...

- Sligo through ignorance and/or stupidity thought their sabattical officer was eligible.
- Queen's through pig-headedness believe Stranmillis students should continue to be allowed to play for them as they did last year and the years before that.
- Stronghold has an agenda and has been caught telling porkies. Again.

Ignorance, stupidity, and pig-headedness are founding principles of the GAA. Somebody put the kettle on.

[Doak, the IT Sligo player actually IS a Fulltime Student]

I think it was very sloppy by whoever the GAA officer in IT Sligo is NOT to realise the rules regarding Sabbaticals...BUT, that being said, to be elected to the Students Union you do have to be a Full time student, which Doak clearly was, so in the scheme of things I feel it's a tad harsh on IT Sligo.

Do you realise how contradictory and stupid that statement is? Are you training to be a C of E vicar?

Are you training to be Daily Mail journalist?

Doak, the IT Sligo player actually IS a Fulltime Student. Compared to some of the players of dubious eligibility in recent times, this is an administrative error, not a deliberate policy by Sligo..THAT is what I meant.
If this is too complex for your little mind to grasp I apologise.

Of course he is - all sabbatical officers are students - that's what sabbatical means. Most (if not all?) are full time students. He is a legitimate student and sabbatical officer.

Sabbatical officers used to be allowed to play. A rule was introduced that they were ineligible. The rule is about their role - being a sabbatical officer. Whether they would otherwise be eligible is irrelevant. The "problem" wasn't that university clubs were bringing in brickies to be sabbatical officers in order to play football...

You said you thought Sligo sloppy in disregarding/being unaware of this rule, but then mused that you thought they were treated "a tad harsh" because their sabbatical officer was a full time student. Huh?

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Agree with this, and perhaps they still will. It should certainly be an option for council.

Why? If Queen's hadn't been deemed to be in breech of the rules, they would have been re-instated. They have been punished for their transgression by not being allowed back in.

Taking the emotion out of it CK, I can't see why you think Queen's should get an extended ban when Sligo shouldn't. If the adjudication is upheld (assuming there will be appeals), the transgressions from both are equally stupid in my view.

How have Queen's suffered in this? ITS have been thrown out of a competition that they were in. Queen's were thrown out of a competition they were already out of. Hardly an equal punishment?

Nonsense. If Queen's were not found guilty of playing illegal players, would they still be in the competition? If the answer is yes, then they were not "already out of" [the competition]. If the answer is no, then you've lost the plot completely

I fully understand Queen's objecting as I for one disagree wholeheartedly with what is happening in college football and it desperately needs a clean up.

so why so bitter towards Queen's?

I don't see the punishment that Queen's got as a deterrent at all.

You may be right. But that is a whole different discussion. The GAA doesn't do "deterrent punishments" full stop.

The players in question should suspended.

I have always had a problem with this. Perhaps if they were blatantly and knowingly flouting the rules, but most players just trust what the manager/club officials tell them. And not all eligibility questions are clear cut - look at the McKenna Cup

The College administrators should be suspended.

Yes, I can see that in serious cases of dishonesty, but can you name one chairman or secretary who has been suspended for players deemed illegal? McKenna Cup...

The colleges should get future bans in Sigerson.

I admire your plural but don't agree with the sentiment. I don't think future students should be punished - and I don't think it would hold up.

Then we would we see a proper clean up. Based on how this has all been handled, let's face it we'll just see the same shi*t next year.

The sky hasn't fallen in. The sun will rise tomorrow. The GAA will continue to have rows over rules and eligibilities and conduct. And the cowboys will be a bit more circumspect about skirting the rules. And the cycle will begin again.

Serious question Stronghold. How does player registration at UU work? Do students who get accepted to UU at Magee or UU at Coleraine get to play for UUJ if they want?

I think it was very sloppy by whoever the GAA officer in IT Sligo is NOT to realise the rules regarding Sabbaticals...BUT, that being said, to be elected to the Students Union you do have to be a Full time student, which Doak clearly was, so in the scheme of things I feel it's a tad harsh on IT Sligo.

Do you realise how contradictory and stupid that statement is? Are you training to be a C of E vicar?

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Agree with this, and perhaps they still will. It should certainly be an option for council.

Why? If Queen's hadn't been deemed to be in breech of the rules, they would have been re-instated. They have been punished for their transgression by not being allowed back in.

Taking the emotion out of it CK, I can't see why you think Queen's should get an extended ban when Sligo shouldn't. If the adjudication is upheld (assuming there will be appeals), the transgressions from both are equally stupid in my view.

Anyone have the team listings?

https://twitter.com/coilinduffy/status/563020479947374593

DCU 2-5 UUJ 0-4

Half Time

The footballs will be safe behind the goals at half time then. For a change.