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i seriously thunk you have the wrong target in aiming at the under age structure. most counties would kill for the type of underage 'Success' mayo have

Thats the problem. We're targeting minor titles and U-16 and U-21 titles when the Senior is the most important. Winning a Senior All-Ireland will inspire more lads to take up football and continue to improve than Mayo winning every underage title under the sun. We are winning these titles because we have a huge pick in Mayo and we cherry pick the most athletic, strong, fast etc. player. We should be developing players who do the basics well, show an appetite for hard work etc. I'm sorry for using Tom Parsons as an example because i don't want to seen as picking on one player. He just stands out as the example of our flawed system. He has reached a plateau in his career and he is only 22. He stood out at every age group in Mayo because he was taller and faster and had a good catch. His skills were neglected because he was already seen as being "complete" as a footballer. He's nowhere near it. It's hard on him because if he was in Kerry or Tyrone he'd have the work rate, the defensive side of the game etc.
Tyrone play the same system they play at senior level at all underage levels. By the time players are senior they know the system. Their trained in how to defend. It might not be everyone's cup of tea the type of football but at least they have a plan in place. Not saying Mayo should copy Tyrones style of play but it demonstrates our need for a plan.

I do think Football is neglected in Schools. They are their for over 180 days of the year. Plenty of days for training there! A coaching officer should be put in place to co-ordinate things in the schools. Lads need to be training more in school. It's a perfect opportunity to develop discipline in regular training

There are 2 major flaws in Mayo football
1.
At all underage teams for mayo the strongest or the quickest or the fittest or the tallest lads are being picked. Not the player with the most potential for the future. They pick these players because of immediate impact in that underage year. Managers often pick on reputation as well as geographical location. The players with most potential are not being spotted and they are lost to Mayo football from a young age. Coaches at underage level for Mayo don't spot the talent that players may possess but needs work. They just pick the easier option and have ready-to-order footballers. These footballers are then on Mayo panels from U-14 up. Lads who may not be the fit or have developed physically are lost to Mayo football. They go off to college, start drinking, put on weight etc. If they had made a Mayo panel and were coached they would have a different mindset and look after themselves better. We only take early bloomers in Mayo. There is very little provision for late bloomers. We need to able to spot the talent better - not just pick the flashy bleached haired corner forward who has pace to burn and does all the flicks. We need to find the lads who do the basics right consistently - who have good positional sense, who can kick pass a ball accurately. They might not be super athletes but you can change easily. This change must come from the county board. They should be outlining this approach to managers and coaches.

2.
The players who do shine at underage level because they are stronger etc. that do go onto the senior panel don't seem to be coached. Some other poster used the example of Mayo and Sligo recently on this issue. Sligo don't have a great pick so they have to coach alot of players to improve them. Mayo has such a good pick that we have footballers who need very little coaching at underage level. However theses players reach a level that they never push on from. Tom parsons is an example. He doesn't seem to have improved at all. Is he being coached. Was coaching him neglected at underage level because his natural athleticism made him stand out already?

Gooch cooper coached donaghy on how to be a full-forward. Amazing! Does that stuff happen in Mayo. David heaney should have been teaching lads on the panel stuff, James Nallen aswell. Were they used?

I believe we need a straight talker like David Brady involved in a management team. That would sort out the hunger and desire and toughness aspect that we lack. That is our biggest weakness.
James Horan, a methodical thinker is needed. Good knowledge on tactics and how to negate opponents tactics. A natural player so knows the game.
James Nallen - up to date with current tactics being used in todays game. JOM, Lyons and Gallagher weren't. Well respected defender. Doesnt say a lot but when he talks people listen.
These 3 as selectors with a manager of Paidi O'Se. We need someone to bring the crowds back into Mayo football. He has fire in the belly. He is passionate and he wouldn't come up here for the craic. He would boost Mayo football undoubtedly. He is loved and hated equally but i admire the way that it annoyed him how Mayo were underachievers and he'd love to manage them. That sparked something in me. I couldnt imagine Paidi leaving out an aidan higgins or a james kilcullen

It's going to take a lot of time for wounds to heal. I don't think we will lose to longford personally but it may happen. If so JOM is obviously gone. Any win be it a one point or ten point win means the same. It's just a win. What we are looking for is a bit of heart and a bit of intensity... If you focus on bringing sheer intensity to a game, pride and passion then usually the rest will follow. If you don't have that you are in trouble. We do have some fine natural footballers in Mayo. There is no question about their class so if they get the intensity right and play with pride then their natural talent should see them through.
Unfortunately i dont think the current management can lift this team to the necessary levels to get to a quarter/semi-final. Gallagher and Lyons have no pedigree as players. Where's the TJ kilgallons, Pat fallons. These ex-players command respect and gave everything for the Green and Red. County board should have got the likes of these on baord for minor, U-21 and senior roles a long time ago

Was comparing howley to galvin's style. He obviously not in galvin's league yet!! amazing he never tried there before tho - considering how well he has done for knockmore. He never plays 6 for them. In 2006 Kerry moved donaghy to 14 and it had a massive effect on both Kerry and football. Jom is going to need something like that to get the Mayo supporters back on track. Sadly we all know he will stick with trev, gardiner etc. He'll probably drop the young lads like Seamie o shea , making it seem like their the ones to blame. While not blameless their confidence will be further dented. Mcgarrity is in a major comfort zone. We've been short of midfielers in the county since his debut in 04. He obviously has taken his position for granted. Not his fault, bad management. We have to bench a few of the untouchables for their complete lack of leadership against Sligo. When do you see trev encouraging or cajoling? he's head dow all the time.

I think aidan is gonna be compared with donaghy if played at 14. It hasn't gone well for him in the league in this position so we might as well try him at no.11 against l'ford. I did suggest conroy because I didn't want to pick mcgarrity or parsons. Not sure about Harte after seeing him against knockmore. Would love to see James kilcullen there. Clarke is obviously kicking the balls out the way he is told. He is good at short kickouts aswell. He is rock solid under pressure and the high ball and has never let Mayo down. Plus he is guaranteed his place. Himself and k higgins are the only 2 for the past few seasons.

Yeah i don't think it's acceptable to make 2-3 changes. That team i picked has 10 changes between positional and personnel.

Trev, Ronan McGarrity and Peadar deserve to be dropped after pathetic performances from our captain, former captain and vice-captain. Not good enough and bench is the best punishment. Tom Parsons has to go aswell.
Seamus O'Shea should get a chance at midfield. Playing him at 11 to compensate Tom Parsons lazy-shite  attitude was unfair.

                              D Clarke (C)
C Barrett               G Cafferkey                   K Higgins
A Moran                D Vaughan                 K Mcloughlin
     
                    S O' Shea P Harte/K Conroy

T Howley                 A O'Shea                      A Dillon
             
                             A Kilcoyne
                 A Freeman           B Moran   

* T Howley to play Galvin role, mopping up around midfield. If your not convinced watch a Knockmore match. It's the position that best suits his attributes.
* B Moran and Freeman to play in front of goal with aidan Kilcoyne ready to pounce from knock downs etc.!
* Aidan O'shea offer a target for kick-outs in half forward with Seamie pulling one way and other midfielder going the other side. Like Cork do - they try to have 3 big men spread across the middle for kick-outs. He can kick scores from here and won't be marked as tightly. Should help his now fragile confidence to be given this pivitol position where he has played his best football.
* Andy Moran can deliver great ball from half back and would be a leader back there. We need some leadership back there. Question marks regarding his defending but i think he is up to it.
* D Vaughan deserves a shot at his best position. Should not be dropped after being asked to play out of position against one of the best in the business.

Plan A - put ball diagonally into two big lads, They either catch or look for knock down to Killer/ half forwards.
If they play sweeper tell lads to move a bit wider from the goal so the sweeper won't know which side to cover. O'hara just stayed in middle and Mayo didnt change the ball in.

Plan B -  Bring B Moran out around middle and leave freeman and killer as corner forwards switching the whole time, keep the defenders guessing. Dillon could also go into full forward line for a spell. Need to be unpredictable as teams cop onto us too easy.

We had the outsiders in m & m in 2006. I think it will be different for those lads when they are on the other side of the line. Accept your point moysider but I like the idea of having players who are in touch with the way football has changed.

Being an ex-player is no guarantee that you'll be a good manager or selector. None of the players you have mentioned have any managerial experience and it would be madness to involve anymore than one of them in any future management set up. I'd be more inclined to look at managers involved at club level in Mayo for the past few years, they'd have a much better idea of the abilities of most Mayo footballers than a recently retired IC player.

.                    Who has kevin walsh, sloyan, Taylor, durcan managed? Mcgeeney? Glen Ryan?the 4 lads together could pit all their wits together, house of pain shit is rubbish, James horan for one is too clever to be wallowing in that crap. d Brady will have moved on, at the very least they know how the game has changed

Kevin Walsh has no baggage having had a great career as a player. The Sligo lads with him were good players and may be able to manage a county team in the future too. McGeeney too may be the real deal. Ryan unfortunately seems to have got off on the wrong foot in Longford. The house of pain bullshit is unfortunately real and cleverness has nothing to do with it. Brady contributed his fair share of pain to that book and I don t believe any of them will ever move on. Not to say they cant be the answer same as maybe James Nallen could be the answer. The game has changed as it always does but it s the players that need to be up to speed as well as the manager. We need a coach who can do this. At the moment neither Manager or the players know what they are doing. Zulu is right about the ex-players. Horses don t make good jockeys and not all good ex-players make managers. The skills that made them great players are no good to them as managers. Looking at other sports, ( take American sports), wery few of the top coaches were great players. Managing/ coaching / picking a team is in the head. Kerry have had more success with a school teacher than the heroes of the golden era as managers. Mickey Harte  was no McGuigan, O Hagan, Donaghy, McKenna, McCabe. Don't be annoyed, nobody is dissing Horan or Brady. Just like to see them do a little bit more. Why didn't either show a bit of interest in the minor job. I just think we need to break up the addiction to defeat and pain. We could get lucky and strike gold. For those of us who never wanted the present guy we were constantly chided with who else is there. Well, Kevin Walsh might have been worth considering. Think we need to go outside the loop. I would not consider anybody who has managed us or played for one of our managers the  last 20 years. Too much baggage. Maybe Horan and Brady as selectors for an outsider like , for instance, a Kevin Walsh. No ranting or raving - just good management.

Being an ex-player is no guarantee that you'll be a good manager or selector. None of the players you have mentioned have any managerial experience and it would be madness to involve anymore than one of them in any future management set up. I'd be more inclined to look at managers involved at club level in Mayo for the past few years, they'd have a much better idea of the abilities of most Mayo footballers than a recently retired IC player.

.                    Who has kevin walsh, sloyan, Taylor, durcan managed? Mcgeeney? Glen Ryan?the 4 lads together could pit all their wits together, house of pain shit is rubbish, James horan for one is too clever to be wallowing in that crap. d Brady will have moved on, at the very least they know how the game has changed

We need a management structure involving the straight talking David Brady as selector. He'll bring pride and passion and won't tolerate bullshit. David Heaney/James Nallen should be considered also as selectors. They are up to date with modern day tactics in football. JOM has no clue anymore. He had no Plan B after O'Hara sat in front of freeman. For a management not to get the message to the players to stop playing that ball was embarrassing. That was our only plan. Noel Connelly and James Horan would come into the mix aswell. These players are well respected but were all clever on the pitch. We need new blood. I don't know what our current selectors contribute to the team.
Sligo have 4 recently retired footballers over them and they had the tactics right the last day -it was no coincidence. Football has changed and JOM is outdated.

Trevor Howley can be our Paul Galvin. Midfielders don't catch as many clean balls anymore so you need someone in there who can win dirty ball and carry it at pace. Trev Howley is that man. Start him at 10. He does that role so well for Knockmore. Also Declan Sweeney would be an ideal no.6, as fit as i've ever seen him. He obviously won't be picked or brought into the panel because that is unheard of in Mayo.
Pat Harte looks way off the pace and Mcgarrity needs to cut the crankiness. He is like a bitch on the pitch!

michael duignan - hurling.... Top notch
Brolly, O'rourke and spillane are deplorable. Especially brolly. Their actual knowledge is pathethic. They are like women discussing a match. We need proper pundits.

peadar gardiner will be a great man to bring in if things are getting sticky...He's been a very under-rated member of our team for years. Won us the connacht final last year with his coolness under pressure

That leaves us with a potential forward line on the sidelines of :

Harte    Aidan O'Shea   Dillon

Ronaldson  B Moran    Kilcoyne

(BJP as an option anywhere really!)

That's healthy for Mayo but i would like to see the forwards doing the business on Sat and making it very diffficult to be dropped. I take it Alan Freeman is our right-footed freetaker then on Sat and Conor the left ones? Really hoping Alan Freeman goes well and gives the Aughamore club a little something to smile about.